Lewis and Button as team mates ?

thegoth

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5645763,00.html

So who would people prefer to see with McLaren as Lewis's teammate next year. I'd like to see Kimi as I think Lewis would have Buttons number.

Slutmonkey57b

I think the McLarens have always been the sort of cars Button doesn't like driving - oversteery and a little lairey. It would be a sponsor's dream, and I'm sure McLaren would go for it but I'm also certain that Lewis would do his best to **** Button over as much as possible, and make sure the car was designed towards his driving style rather than a neutral. Kimi would be a better fit from a driving point of view.

On the other hand Lewis & Button vs Kimi & Rosberg in two british teams with one lairy driver and one safe pair of hands, could be interesting. But I think Button wants to stay where he is and he's right.

thegoth

Yeah. So, if you had you choice would you like to see

Lewis vs Kimi
Lewis vs Button

I'd say next years car designs have been almost finalised at this stage so Button or Kimi will have to take the type of car Mclaren have

Frank Bullitt

Would Mercedes want this though?

EvilMonkey

Would Button go for it?
It would be easier for him to beat Rosberg in a Brawn than Lewis in a McLaren.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5646687,00.html

This sort of confirms what i thought,as long as Merc have a large stake in McLaren then they would never go for that.

Ghost Train

I think lewis would be ahead of both of them, but not every weekend, brawn mclaren should be pretty close, so for jenson mclaren might be a good move

Oblomov

Given that Mercedes want a share in Brawn .. but at the expense of McLaren.. that might see McLaren doing exactly what it sees as in their best interest.

Rumours of McLaren wanting the BMW engine side, to go both with the production super car and the F1 team... buying in the personnel to build and develop, expansion of the works at Woking, re-fresh McLaren's interest in Lyden Hill circuit... the permutations are, well, lots.

The denials by the drivers supposedly signed up also gives rise to further 'musical chairs' and a surfeit of German drivers being available.

Nobert Haug is quoted as commented on the Button scenario; "There are no current negotiations with Jenson Button but I do have understanding for the fact that people in England are dreaming of an English team with two world champions in the cockpits," Haug, who is McLaren engine partner Mercedes' competition director, told the German news agency DPA.

"However, dreams don't always come true," he added.

tee hee..... when he sez people in England ... hmmm, who? two english drivers? Mclaren with Lewis and Jensen or Brawn with Button and a Brit newcomer......

EvilMonkey

Oblomov wrote: »

Given that Mercedes want a share in Brawn .. but at the expense of McLaren.. that might see McLaren doing exactly what it sees as in their best interest.

Rumours of McLaren wanting the BMW engine side, to go both with the production super car and the F1 team... buying in the personnel to build and develop, expansion of the works at Woking, re-fresh McLaren's interest in Lyden Hill circuit... the permutations are, well, lots.

The denials by the drivers supposedly signed up also gives rise to further 'musical chairs' and a surfeit of German drivers being available.

Nobert Haug is quoted as commented on the Button scenario; "There are no current negotiations with Jenson Button but I do have understanding for the fact that people in England are dreaming of an English team with two world champions in the cockpits," Haug, who is McLaren engine partner Mercedes' competition director, told the German news agency DPA.

"However, dreams don't always come true," he added.

tee hee..... when he sez people in England ... hmmm, who? two english drivers? Mclaren with Lewis and Jensen or Brawn with Button and a Brit newcomer......

A brit newcomer would not be a World champion. I do think there could be a split between McLaren and Mercedes if the future. Mercedes seem to want a controlling share in a team and McLaren want to show they can do it all themselves including a super car division.

In this case i think its more likely Button is negotiating with Brawn and his management are leaking this story to strengthen their position.

54kroc

EvilMonkey wrote: »

In this case i think its more likely Button is negotiating with Brawn and his management are leaking this story to strengthen their position.

I'd say it's more McLaren trying to get Kimi to make up his mind.

Oblomov

Bernie Ecclestone has hit out at Brawn GP for not sewing up a deal with F1's new world champion Jenson Button.

Button, 29, has expressed his desire to stay with the Brackley squad in 2010, but is holding out for a return to the salary he was contracted to receive this year: about $13m.

To aid the Honda management buyout, the Briton agreed to slash his pay to about $5m, and also paid for most of his own travel and even laundry cleaning bills throughout his winning campaign.

So far, Brawn chiefs Ross Brawn and Nick Fry are refusing to accept Button's demands.

"They are being a little bit arrogant considering how long they have been in formula one," said Ecclestone, the sport's chief executive. "They should remember they have only been in the sport 10 minutes really," he is quoted as saying by the Mirror.

Button's manager Richard Goddard agrees that the situation, now spreading into rumours of a high-income switch to McLaren, is entirely Brawn's fault.

"A lot of quality seats may still be available so it's down to Brawn to make us an offer," The Sun newspaper quotes him as saying.

Tee heee

EvilMonkey

cork45 wrote: »

I'd say it's more McLaren trying to get Kimi to make up his mind.

It could be, someone is playing games anyway.

Slutmonkey57b

I'd say it's games all around. Brawn know perfectly well Button wants to stay exactly where he is, and that he'll take less money than the other champions on the grid. It's only a question of how greedy and how much of a knut Nick Fry really is.

McLaren benefitted from the buy-in from Mercedes but Merc are increasingly treating the place like a works team, and that won't go down well with the Sons of Ron. Merc have been clever enough not to actually fund a works team, which is a black hole for billions of dollars, but I think they're tempted now BMW is quitting and there are quality German drivers knocking about. Well, ok there's two quality german drivers knocking about. Sutil's just knocking people over.

Raikkonen is the key to this, just like he was the key to Alonso's move - once he decides what he's up to, that decides where everyone else goes.

Oblomov

Toyota turned down Kimi becausee of too much money.. or so Howlett is quoted as saying

If Kimi is too expensive he could be out of the equation. Mclaren need a driver to back up Hamilton.. they lost the 2008 championship points because of only one driver finishing... Heidfeld is also quoted as being available and considered for a McLaren seat.

Too many drivers chasing too few seats plus... the newbies are an unknown quanity. How many will actually turn up?

Then:

Brawn chief executive Nick Fry has played down reports that a number of senior engineering staff are upset with the team over "bonus arrangements", according to the Daily Telegraph.

The rumours are said to have spread in the paddock, leading to rival teams including Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari making job offers to the disgruntled Brawn staff.

"No one has said anything to me about this," said Fry. "I am extremely surprised. We will look into any concerns that people have, though I am not aware of any. As far as we are concerned these are internal matters but if there is an issue with anybody we are quite happy to talk to them about it," he

Slutmonkey57b

Toyota was never an option for Kimi, their car is nowhere near good enough, and they haven't proved they've got the winning mentality or the engineering. This was nothing more than a headline grabbing ploy by Howlett, as he knows that if Toyota don't actually pull out, he's got nothing to bring in a big name driver. He could do a lot worse than Heidfeld actually.

Slutmonkey57b

Confirmation from Hamilton:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79755

2nd driver "must be a team player and must not be disruptive"
Translation:
Come in my team and I will **** you up, mother****er.

EvilMonkey

No translation needed if Hekki stays he got his way!

As for button

Jenson Button's contractual negotiations with the Brawn team are nearing a positive end, the new World Champion's manager Richard Goddard has revealed.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/091025150021.shtml

and Willi Weber has said Barrichello will be at Williams.

However Willi Weber, famous in F1 circles for being Michael Schumacher's manager, let the cat out of the bag when speaking to Germany's Bild am Sonntag newspaper about his new charge, the 22-year-old rookie and current Williams test driver Nico Hulkenberg.

"I think he will be a match for his new teammate Barrichello," Weber said.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/091025144111.shtml

Slutmonkey57b

I think having Hamilton as their lead driver is an unbalanced issue for McLaren. Clearly he's one of the best drivers on the grid, if not the best, and therefore worth having. However, he's also not tolerant of another rooster in the henhouse and will quite happily **** the team over in order to maintain supremacy. Keeping Heikki has prevented the team from getting the constructor's championship, and made it more difficult for them to get third this year (with a few 1-2's when Hamilton was winning, they could even have been second). But anyone they bring in is going to be screwed by Hamilton, which is going to scare off drivers with brains (Rosberg) or good advice (Kimi).

Anthony Davidson on commentary recently filled in a lot of the blanks about Kimi - namely that he's not so much an Iceman as he is cripplingly shy. A few vodkas and he's a changed man of course. With Massa gone, his form has improved dramatically, which shows how much one selfish driver can screw a team's overall chances. Kimi suits McLaren and I think he should go there, but I don't know that Lewis wouldn't destroy him with backroom antics just like Massa has done.

EvilMonkey

I don't think Kimis form improved because Massa was gone but when Massa got injured there was a period of 4 races where the Ferrari was strong, then they lost ground again because they only brought minor updates and the 3rd driver fiasco.

McLaren do need a strong partnership, it seems Hamilton will only be happy with someone he can dominate, I'm not sure if that's what would be best for the team. Interesting times ahead for Mr Witmarsh.

54kroc

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

But anyone they bring in is going to be screwed by Hamilton

Has Hamilton being screwing over other team mates?

Frank Bullitt

Im not quite sure its the same team that Hamilton was in when Alonso was there though(if you get me).

Remember,Ron Dennis is gone now,and Norbert Haug is a Big Kimi fan as well,it could seem like a good idea from the outside but I think it could cause more issues for them,in general i hope Kimi gets a good car for next year,and i would love to see him go against Hamilton head on,could be quite the battle.

On another note,Hamilton might have been able to play games with Alonso,but that wont really work with Kimi,even when he was set on fire by a McLaren he kept going.

Slutmonkey57b

@cork err..... 2007? The only reason he's not playing similar games with Hekki is a) He's got the team set up around him so he gets all the right parts first and the car is designed with him in mind and b) Heikki's not a threat.

See I was on board with the Kimi as Iceman thing, but the change in him since Massa's accident is pretty dramatic. I'm not talking about points scoring, but he seems to be more like the old Kimi than the new, Ferrari-ised nervous Kimi. I think Massa really put a number on him last year and this year.

frostie500

I haven't heard too many of Hamilton's teammates to have been too negative about him (Sutil and Prémat) have been of great support to him since being teammates and speak very highly of him and he seems to get on very well with Heiki at present. So the only teammate that has been an issue is Alonso which I'd say had most to do with Alonso coming to McLaren as a world champion and expecting Hamilton to be a second driver and support him in winning another title. Don't forget that Alonso had issues with Fisichella when he was occasionally beaten by him so you can imagine what he was like when an upstart from GP2 was racing just as well as him.

Don't forget that their relationship-at least publicly-while not showing great friendship toward one another-only really took a turn south after Hungary and the episode in Qualifying. Before this there was radio chatter from Alonso demanding Hamilton let him through at Indy but after this we all know how the relationship deteriorated.

54kroc

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

@cork err..... 2007? The only reason he's not playing similar games with Hekki is a) He's got the team set up around him so he gets all the right parts first and the car is designed with him in mind and b) Heikki's not a threat..

Alonso was the one throwing his toys out of the pram in 2007. Don't get me wrong here i'm far from a Hamilton fan but all that happened in '07 was Alonso got a whiping by the new boy,Which is the last thing a prima donna like Alonso wants,
I can't see him giving a toss how good the driver who joins is, I think he is a more complete driver than anyone on the market and as racer's I think him and Kimi are close to equal.

Frank Bullitt

Dont forget that Alonso also stated that his problem was never with Hamilton,but with Ron Dennis.

Iron Hide

Hamilton was Ron Dennis' man through and through though, so ergo problem with Dennis = problem with Hamilton...

frostie500

Red Storm wrote: »

Hamilton was Ron Dennis' man through and through though, so ergo problem with Dennis = problem with Hamilton...

Do the '...' mean that you are actually serious with this statement or do they imply sarcasm...

Iron Hide

frostie500 wrote: »

Do the '...' mean that you are actually serious with this statement or do they imply sarcasm...

no the single ' after the letter s is punctuation my boy....