News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

pixbyjohn

Greystones Harbour 5/11/2011 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

The Durutti Column

Damo9090 wrote: »

Is it open? Some pictures have made it onto Facebook already.

Yes, D it is indeed open.

http://greystonesharbour.org/guboh-welcomes-opening-of-greystones-harbour

The Durutti Column

Looks like it's all being privatised. Clubs and Cllr Hayden get first dibs. But not all clubs are equal. Here is a comment by one of the local WORKING fishermen, the guys who used to have the nicely painted huts on the south end:

Ivan Toole I'm a local fisherman that operated from the harbour like 5 generations of my family before me, I employ 3 Greystones people, I had to move my operations to dunlioghaire when work started on the harbour , me and my crew have been commuteing to dunlioghaire very workday since being shut out of the harbour, we are still not aloud back in the harbour and it is beginning to look like we never will, so calling the harbour open is really rubbing salt into deep wounds, Greystones comerical fishermen R.I.P

This was on the GUBOH FB page...

Cookie_Monster

Jimjay wrote: »

Also what authority does a councilor have to move someone on? not just from the harbour but from anywhere even if they are not meant to be there?

what's he doing down there in the first place? Either it was during working hour in which case he should be off working, not hanging around the harbour and getting paid for it or after in which case he's nothing more than another would be customer.

The Durutti Column

Blanchflower wrote: »

I was on the harbour today and the icecream man was told to leave by Councillor Hayden.

The kids were very dissapointed. There are no signs up to prohibit the selling of icecream on the harbour so I don't know why the icecream man was banished.

As far as I know there are still no bye laws for the harbour. It seems that some people are under the mistaken belief that this is not a public harbour.

As far as I know, Cllr Hayden is not the Harbour Master and has no official function in the scheme of things at the harbour.

How come he is ordering people about down there?

Sispar holds the concession to operate the harbour for 30 years. Maybe their local manager Brendan Sheehy could explain what Hayden's role is and under what rule ice cream vendors and musicians are being excluded from the PUBLIC harbour...

pixbyjohn

This may clarify things a bit. I am putting it up here as this was a reply to an email I sent to Councillor C. Hayden last night.
Even though the harbour is now open it is still a privately run area.

Text of Councillor C. Hayden's email to me>>>>
" Hi John, yes this is true. Joe Sweeney made a complaint to me as it was interfering with his business. I phoned the Harbour Master and as he was not available I informed the ice cream van of the bye laws that prevent casual trading. I will make no apologies for defending the rate paying business community from pirate operators. The Harbour is owned and operated by Sispar and the town bye laws prevent casual trade unless the produce is home grown. A case to prove this is the former flower seller at Redford Cemetery. Joe Sweeney’s business has been seriously affected by the closure of the harbour and it’s a bit ironic that on the second day of re-opening a pirate operator tries to come in and steal his business. Please pass on this mail to the unknown individual on boards.ie as I do not subscribe to a site where people hide their identity.

Kind Regards

Ciarán"

The Durutti Column

pixbyjohn wrote: »

This may clarify things a bit. I am putting it up here as this was a reply to an email I sent to Councillor C. Hayden last night.
Even though the harbour is now open it is still a privately run area.

Text of Councillor C. Hayden's email to me>>>>
" Hi John, yes this is true. Joe Sweeney made a complaint to me as it was interfering with his business. I phoned the Harbour Master and as he was not available I informed the ice cream van of the bye laws that prevent casual trading. I will make no apologies for defending the rate paying business community from pirate operators. The Harbour is owned and operated by Sispar and the town bye laws prevent casual trade unless the produce is home grown. A case to prove this is the former flower seller at Redford Cemetery. Joe Sweeney’s business has been seriously affected by the closure of the harbour and it’s a bit ironic that on the second day of re-opening a pirate operator tries to come in and steal his business. Please pass on this mail to the unknown individual on boards.ie as I do not subscribe to a site where people hide their identity.

Kind Regards

Ciarán"

No, it does not clarify, precisely because the harbour is run by a private entity.

Town trading bylaws apply to public pitches, not private. Hayden was wrong in what he told the vendor — I hope the ice cream man reads this and comes back next week.

Second, in the absence of the HM a town councillor has no authority. H is just doing what he does best, and we know what that is...

Third, why has not Wicklow Co Co published the harbour bylaws? These have been sitting on the official's desk for the last six months...

Tabnabs

pixbyjohn wrote: »

This may clarify things a bit. I am putting it up here as this was a reply to an email I sent to Councillor C. Hayden last night.
Even though the harbour is now open it is still a privately run area.

Text of Councillor C. Hayden's email to me>>>>
" Hi John, yes this is true. Joe Sweeney made a complaint to me as it was interfering with his business. I phoned the Harbour Master and as he was not available I informed the ice cream van of the bye laws that prevent casual trading. I will make no apologies for defending the rate paying business community from pirate operators. The Harbour is owned and operated by Sispar and the town bye laws prevent casual trade unless the produce is home grown. A case to prove this is the former flower seller at Redford Cemetery. Joe Sweeney’s business has been seriously affected by the closure of the harbour and it’s a bit ironic that on the second day of re-opening a pirate operator tries to come in and steal his business. Please pass on this mail to the unknown individual on boards.ie as I do not subscribe to a site where people hide their identity.

Kind Regards

Ciarán"

Anyone know who the Harbour Master is please?

pixbyjohn

Tabnabs wrote: »

Anyone know who the Harbour Master is please?

I have just been onto the office of Greystones Town Council and was informed that there is no harbour master appointed yet.

Tabnabs

pixbyjohn wrote: »

I have just been onto the office of Greystones Town Council and was informed that there is no harbour master appointed yet.

“Curiouser and curiouser!”

I wonder who the good councillor was calling so? Who is using the HM office or is it just a glorified site office?

Blandpebbles

Good ol' CH...he does make me chuckle...even after years of antics.

Ahh the anonymous quote again..

Where does it say Clubs only? If its the pens then that makes sense as they need to secure boats and equipment.

I will ask some members of the Rowing club tonight to see what their understanding is.

The harbour is open? No fanfare? Did I miss the placards and sundry notices on the greystones guide?

pixbyjohn

wakey wakey, just joking

Blandpebbles wrote: »

The harbour is open? No fanfare? Did I miss the placards and sundry notices on the greystones guide?

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Word is that the harbour will be open to the public from mid morning tomorrow Saturday 5th. November 2011.
Great news

Blandpebbles

No politican photo, it never happened..

recedite

The guy who has been driving an estate car up and down to the north pier all summer, chasing youths off it, and is known as Monty the Harbourmaster must be just a temporary acting harbourmaster.

Tabnabs

Does Monty have a real name?

recedite

It wouldn't be fair to say any more about him here. He's a guy doing his job, as best he can.

MyPerfectCousin

If you Google ciaran hayden harbour master, you find a recent quote from Hayden referring to a "Gordon Hunter, Harbour Master".

Which is weird, seeing as the town council says there isn't a harbour master.

Jimjay

I didnt even know sweeneys sold ice cream, maybe they should get a cart amd sell from the harbour. I presume as a local rate paying business they wont get moved on.

Is a councillor authorised to police bylaws? If he thinks someone is breaking a byelaw should he call the gaurds or has he been 'deputised' to work on their behalf?

Charlie-Bravo

There's an ice cream van always parked up near the old Dart Stn car park on a sunny day. I don't see much difference if he decided to move his trade just down the road??!

Now, if the ice cream fella was selling re-heated frozen chips, then maybe Sweeney's would have a case....just kidding. So let me get this right...the harbour is private property, which the public have access to...bit like Charlesland in a way. Does that mean Superquinn can request the services of Ciaran Hayden to prevent ice cream vans from selling ice cream in Charlesland?!

I'll keep an eye on this one to see the outcome on the ice cream van/harbour scenario and the byelaws.

The Durutti Column

Tabnabs wrote: »

Does Monty have a real name?

Well, not sure if Monty is the harbourmaster. But the real harbourmaster, according to the GUBOH FB page, is indeed one Gordon Hunter, and his contact details are given as

<snip>

Gordon, I think, operates a large fishing charter vessel, <snip>, which can carry 12 anglers.

The Durutti Column

Jimjay wrote: »

Is a councillor authorised to police bylaws? If he thinks someone is breaking a byelaw should he call the gaurds or has he been 'deputised' to work on their behalf?

Town trading by-laws apply to public pitches, not private. The harbour is not a 'public place' for legal purposes. Hayden was wrong in what he told the vendor — I hope the ice cream man reads this and comes back next week.

Second, in the absence of the HM a town councillor has no authority. Hayden is just doing what he does best, and we know what that is...

Third, why has not Wicklow Co Co published the harbour by-laws? These have been sitting on the official's desk for the last six months...

I see lots of people want the harbour by-laws to exclude dogs from the harbour, after all the 'deposits' they left behind over the weekend...

Fiachra2

thepassanger wrote: »

(my parents were cycling around today and spent some time sitting in the harbour where there were 3 guys playing guitar. the security guard ended up coming over and telling the 3 guys that they couldnt play guitar here and they had to leave)
) "

While there might be some ground for a rate-paying business objecting to the ice-cream van, moving musicians on is outrageous. Did this really happen? If we had certainty I would take it up with the Town Council.

Cookie_Monster

The Durutti Column wrote: »

Gordon, I think, operates a large fishing charter vessel, snip, which can carry 12 anglers.

Frankly that's quite a conflict of interest. Harbour Master, yet operate a business that's a (potential) user of the same harbour?

Fiachra2

More comment on the opening.

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/category/harbour-updates/

The Durutti Column

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Frankly that's quite a conflict of interest. Harbour Master, yet operate a business that's a (potential) user of the same harbour?

You could have a point, Cookie. He certainly did have such a business and was listed here. However, maybe he has given that up or maybe he will not operate out of Greystones. Someone should ask him, though. An email, perhaps?

Tabnabs

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Frankly that's quite a conflict of interest. Harbour Master, yet operate a business that's a (potential) user of the same harbour?

It also calls into question the legality of the appointment, should it be correct. Very recently we have seen Dun Laoghaire Harbour and another harbour (IIRC Foynes?) advertise in national and international publications for the position of HM within their harbours. There are set procedures for these positions and there are also well established criteria for suitable candidates.

I call shenanigans on this one, sounds like a kite flying exercise by the Councillor or perhaps a ruse to further his personal view on how the harbour should operate.

The Durutti Column

thepassanger wrote: »

will you help me organise something for Christmas day in the Greystones Harbour? the easiest thing to call it now is a STREETPARTY, and we would be promoting the people of greystones to take ownership over the harbour. (my parents were cycling around today and spent some time sitting in the harbour where there were 3 guys playing guitar. the security guard ended up coming over and telling the 3 guys that they couldnt play guitar here and they had to leave)
this really pissed me off when i heard it because we used to have a Public Harbour, where, now we have a semi-private harbour that we have no ownership over.

the idea is to get all/most of the people who take part in the christmas day swim to stroll to the harbour for some Mould Wine and pies/ cakes as a sort of Christmas Day Community Gathering that has a purpose.
HELP ME!
..
"i get to check internet a few times a week but dont expect a reply within a few hours! "

I think thepassangar's suggestion is a good one. To be passive and let Sispar or whoever dictate the rules for public use of the harbour as an amenity (as against rules governing boating, etc) would be to negate the fact that it is community action that got us this far.

However, I don't think Xmas Day is a good day for it. Maybe you should suggest it to GUBOH and they could put their resources and moral authority behind it?

The Durutti Column

Tabnabs wrote: »

It also calls into question the legality of the appointment, should it be correct. Very recently we have seen Dun Laoghaire Harbour and another harbour (IIRC Foynes?) advertise in national and international publications for the position of HM within their harbours. There are set procedures for these positions and there are also well established criteria for suitable candidates.

I call shenanigans on this one, sounds like a kite flying exercise by the Councillor or perhaps a ruse to further his personal view on how the harbour should operate.

While it certainly needs some investigation and queries, it seems to be true and was known some months back, around July/August.

It seems Sispar had it in their gift as the concessionaire to operate the harbour for 30 years, and conducted a somewhat opaque method of filling the post. The whole notion of Sispar appointing the HM, or doing so in a way that does not apply the same rules as when a public body does so, can be challenged.

However, maybe there is some doubt about the permanence of the appointment — could Mr Hunter be an acting HM? Certainly, he did not attend the last meeting of the Harbour Liaison Committee on 13 September and I'm told there was no announcement of his appointment. Maybe an email to Brendan Sheehy of Sispar would help...

But on this occasion, at any rate, it seems Hayden is in the clear.

Some said he wanted the job, which would have been a massive conflict of interest but would explain his dog-like loyalty to Sispar over the years. Funnily enough, after the appointment he became slightly critical of Sispar and even supported Tom Fortune in demanding meetings of the Harbour Liaison Committee when Sean Quirke refused to call them.

recedite

The Durutti Column wrote: »

However, I don't think Xmas Day is a good day for it.

It could work if the swim is conducted in the harbour, but probably won't work if the swim is at a different location. People like a quick outdoor spectacle and a bit of craic in the morning, before the big dinner.

pixbyjohn

Have a New Year's morning swim and then coffee in Sweeneys or a hot whiskey in the Beach House