News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

Tabnabs

Fiachra2 wrote: »

There is a perfectly suitable space just past the rowing club pen. It was originally intended for the clubhouse for a few marine clubs. That wont be happening now so GUBOH have (repeatedly) asked that the space-which is full of rubbish-be tidied up and made available to the community for public boat storage. That request has been denied to date but we wont be giving up.

For anyone wanting to store a boat I would suggest joining the ridge angling club who have a pen down there. Its pretty cheap and you get a secure space to leave your boat. You will unfortunately need a car to launch it though and the slip is pretty poor compared to what was there before but its usable.

Have Greystones Sailing Club been booted out then? That seems very unfair.

I've heard that moorings are to be placed in the "outer" basin to give access to the previous fishing fleet. This would certainly be a good step to making the harbour an amenity for all and not just those who can afford it.

Fiachra2

No GSC have a pen there too. I just thought the poster was a fisherman so GRAC seemed the obvious solution. If not we will certainly take him in GSC!

(and we have a bar!)

The harbour is too rough for moorings. In the original design there was a more complex harbour mouth which minimised waves within the harbour. This was dropped without any consultation with the public or without reference to An Bord Pleanala and the result is a large inner harbour which is of very limited use.

Fiachra2

Facebook post by Tom fortune

While I welcome the cosmetic work being undertaken at Greystones Harbour, it is not sufficient and only a comprehensive plan of landscaping and improved access will be acceptable at this stage.
The removal of rubble and building machinery and some hoardings is very welcome and indeed it is a great pity that it was not undertaken when the site was effectively shut down in 2010. however it comes nowhere near what is required by the community. I have written to Sisk and also to Wicklow County Council advising them that what is now required is a very extensive programme that will include the removal of unnecessary fencing, the opening up of all piers to the public and proper landscaping. Most importantly the plan must be agreed with the community before it is undertaken. After six years of waiting the community needs and deserves an attractive amenity for all at Greystones Harbour. I will not be satisfied until this is delivered.

Maudi

Fiachra2 wrote: »

No GSC have a pen there too. I just thought the poster was a fisherman so GRAC seemed the obvious solution. If not we will certainly take him in GSC!

(and we have a bar!)

The harbour is too rough for moorings. In the original design there was a more complex harbour mouth which minimised waves within the harbour. This was dropped without any consultation with the public or without reference to An Bord Pleanala and the result is a large inner harbour which is of very limited use.

So from reading your post and looking at the outer harbour it seems as if the outer harbour is pretty usless?its too rough there to moor boats..so the south harbour wall is or was completely useless (and im sure expensive) badly designed unneccessary development..it just gets better and better (sigh)

Fiachra2

Press release from Stephen Stokes below.

Mayor Stephen Stokes has reiterated his concern about the lack of progress at Greystones Harbour. At the July end of month meeting Sisk corresponded that they would meet with Greystones Town Council in August. This was made public at the time. The Town Council then offered 3 dates and Tuesday, August 13th was agreed upon.

Mayor Stokes stated: 'Unfortunately there was virtually no good news from Sisk. They informed the Town Council that the Primary Care Centre is now unlikely as the company they are dealing with seems to have withdrawn its interest. I am shocked and disappointed as for so long this had been promised. The only good news is that the developers intend to grass that area and open it to the public if the Primary Care Centre does not happen.'

While he welcomed the general tidying up of the Harbour area near the car park end, Stokes believes much more needs to be done. Stokes also expressed frustration that the developers are not planning to undertake any major development until the middle of 2014, and even then it is "market dependent" on what they do. Stokes stated: 'I told the developers this is too loosey goosey and that we need more decisive plans. They also did not deny that bringing in future investors is an option.' Sisk intends to update Greystones Town Council at the next Town Council meeting in September.

Mayor Stokes added: 'I conveyed the frustration of the people of Greystones in the strongest possible terms to the developers. I mentioned that one only has to look at the Greystones meme page on Facebook to see the absolute frustration. Even Jean-Luc Picard is weighing in. I also firmly believe all future meetings need to be open to all, and advertised widely. It is the only way to progress transparency.'

Mayor Stokes and Cllr Tom Fortune have requested that Council officials make the minutes of the meeting available since immediately after the meeting.

Maudi

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Press release from Stephen Stokes below.

Mayor Stephen Stokes has reiterated his concern about the lack of progress at Greystones Harbour. At the July end of month meeting Sisk corresponded that they would meet with Greystones Town Council in August. This was made public at the time. The Town Council then offered 3 dates and Tuesday, August 13th was agreed upon.

Mayor Stokes stated: 'Unfortunately there was virtually no good news from Sisk. They informed the Town Council that the Primary Care Centre is now unlikely as the company they are dealing with seems to have withdrawn its interest. I am shocked and disappointed as for so long this had been promised. The only good news is that the developers intend to grass that area and open it to the public if the Primary Care Centre does not happen.'

While he welcomed the general tidying up of the Harbour area near the car park end, Stokes believes much more needs to be done. Stokes also expressed frustration that the developers are not planning to undertake any major development until the middle of 2014, and even then it is "market dependent" on what they do. Stokes stated: 'I told the developers this is too loosey goosey and that we need more decisive plans. They also did not deny that bringing in future investors is an option.' Sisk intends to update Greystones Town Council at the next Town Council meeting in September.

Mayor Stokes added: 'I conveyed the frustration of the people of Greystones in the strongest possible terms to the developers. I mentioned that one only has to look at the Greystones meme page on Facebook to see the absolute frustration. Even Jean-Luc Picard is weighing in. I also firmly believe all future meetings need to be open to all, and advertised widely. It is the only way to progress transparency.'

Mayor Stokes and Cllr Tom Fortune have requested that Council officials make the minutes of the meeting available since immediately after the meeting.

Is it me or is this whole "abandoned harbour "issue not getting the seriousness it deserves..are the wrong people on the business end of dealing with sisk..i mean suggesting to a giant like sisk that "face book "isint happy with them or trying to frighten them with star trek characters best of all sisk are being "goosey loosey"..how old is this guy ? 10?

MyPerfectCousin

They informed the Town Council that the Primary Care Centre is now unlikely

That was news? I thought that was already well established, so I don't get why the mayor was "shocked". This is starting to resemble a Beckett play.

Fiachra2

You may not like the Mayors turn of phrase but at least he is saying it as it is. Contrast this with the very rose tinted version of affairs given by another councillor to be found here.

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/greystones-town-council-meets-with-sisk-group/

There are three important pieces of information from that meeting.
1. The PCC is gone
2. Sisk are looking at the possibility of bringing in "investors"
3. Sisk expressed a willingness to undertake a significant amount of landscaping and improvement of public access.

With regard to the first I never for one minute believed it would happen until Reilly started to really pull strokes with PCC's. then I feared it was an outside possibility. Now we have closure on that.
The second is potentially serious because the logical commercial option for Sisk is to simply sell their interest in this and go back to being an engineering firm. A sell out of that nature could have massive implications but I know that Tom Fortune and Stephen are looking into this (As is Stephen Donnelly ) so its probably not worth worrying about until we know more.
So what needs to be focussed on is the last item. Sisk are willing to give more and so they need to be pressed to undertake a very substantial program of landscaping. The town councillors have passed a resolution calling for them to do exactly that and so it looks like we might, just might, be getting somewhere

Taltos

Shame we cannot just get a force purchase at much reduced rates and designate it common land. Am sure the community would band together to do whatever is needed. I mean just look to Ratoath where a number of parents got behind one local father to build a world class BMX track. - Not suggesting we want that - just showing what communities can do when permitted.

One word really. Shambolic.

pixbyjohn

Changes @ Greystones Harbour by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

pixbyjohn

Little by little by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

pixbyjohn

Bray Head and The Sugarloaf from Greystones Marina by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Maudi

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Little by little by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Theres a good few acres in that reclaimed land.and some slippery snake is looking at it with a view to making money out of it you can be sure...the medical center will never be built..id love to see the land given park status of some kind and given to the people of greystones..

Blanchflower

Maudi wrote: »

Theres a good few acres in that reclaimed land.and some slippery snake is looking at it with a view to making money out of it you can be sure...the medical center will never be built..id love to see the land given park status of some kind and given to the people of greystones..

If Wicklow County Council were looking after the public interest they would have by now determined this PPP contract due to non performance of Sispar and called on the performance bond. Using the proceeds of the performance bond the site could be remediated for public use. Why has Wicklow County Council failed to do this?

pixbyjohn

The Harbour Master's cabin has been removed from its location, does this mean there is no harbour master now at Greystones Harbour?


Greystones Harbour area by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Fiachra2

Correct!

pixbyjohn

Gordon Hunter by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

legrand

Blanchflower wrote: »

If Wicklow County Council were looking after the public interest they would have by now determined this PPP contract due to non performance of Sispar and called on the performance bond. Using the proceeds of the performance bond the site could be remediated for public use. Why has Wicklow County Council failed to do this?

Probably because if it were turned into a park there would be uproar when (if!) the site was to be developed as commercial/residential. My money [sadly] is on the site staying derelict for the foreseeable future

Fiachra2

That will undoubtedly be a significant factor for the developer. It should not be a factor for Wicklow County council. Their purpose is to protect the public interest. Even if the land is left in its current barren condition for 3-5 years there will be protest if there is then an attempt to build on it. That will be a matter to be dealt with by the planning laws.
(Lets face it the planning laws had no problem ignoring the storm of protest over this particular project in the first place!)

Tabnabs

To think that SISK and WCC are going to walk away from this PPP and let the daisy's grow in the place of a multimillion euro development is naivety in the extreme.

Fiachra2

Not sure Id agree with that.
Take the parties involved. WCC regularly displays extremes of arrogance, ignorance, incompetence and naivety. A recent example being the spending of €3M on a landlocked bog near three trouts, an act of stupidity for which our county manager is not in the least repentant. So to suggest the WCC would not walk away from a commercially viable project is to my mind being at least somewhat naïve.
In the case of Sisk they wont walk away. They will sell and-if they are to stay involved- act as a contractor. This is the logical thing to do. They are an engineering firm. They are not property developers albeit that for a while -like many Irish people- they thought they were. It makes no commercial sense to hold on to a speculative property. There is no abundant rumour that that they are in the process of selling their interest.
Now it should be born in mind that WCC would have the power to prevent this in the interest of the public. But then we are back to the naivety.....

pixbyjohn

A place of enjoyment September 2013 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Fiachra2

The Give Us Back our Harbour group (GUBOH) has welcomed the news that the developers of the stalled harbour project are preparing a plan to landscape the derelict parts of the harbour area and significantly improve public access. But GUBOH also warned that the plan must be comprehensive and address all of the community’s concerns.

“For six years now, this development has intruded into the lives of the ordinary people of Greystones to a completely unacceptable level,” said spokesman Fiachra Etchingham. “It has also damaged tourism and business in the town. Construction work ceased almost three years ago and the appalling state of the harbour area since then has caused great anger.

“Even though the promised work is long overdue, we welcome the fact that it is finally being planned,” he continued. “However, we cannot allow a repeat of what happened in 2011. At that time, as a result of pressure from GUBOH and public representatives, the developers agreed to open up the harbour and undertake some landscaping. But the work they did fell far short of what had been requested or what was required.

“The vast stretches of fencing, cheap fittings, lack of public access and the appalling appearance of the approach along the cliff walk are most disappointing and totally unacceptable.

“We now know that the Primary Care Centre will not be built and that there will be no further construction work for many years. It is now both urgent and appropriate that the area be left as an attractive green space. The plan for this must include:
• The removal of all unnecessary fencing and construction related fixtures
• Full access to all harbour walls
• Opening up all public areas including the site of the public plaza and public park
• Attractive fittings and furniture in the harbour area
• Proper facilities for commercial fishermen”

GUBOH welcomed the calls by Councillor Tom Fortune and Mayor Stephen Stokes for full consultation with the community before any plans are finalised. The group will contact the developers and Wicklow County Council in this regard.

Greystones is embarking on the “Brand Greystones” initiative to develop its distinctive character. At a recent public meeting called as part of the initiative, the single biggest issue was the state of the harbour and how it detracts from the town.

“With the marina now up and running, we have a great opportunity to resolve the problems in the area and develop the harbour as an amenity for the whole community,” concluded Etchingham. “It is now essential that Wicklow County Council and the developers engage with the people of Greystones to achieve this.”

pixbyjohn

Fiachra 2, are you including the provision of public toilets in your request too?
Does GUBOH still include yourself and the other 2 Johns?

loyatemu

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Fiachra 2, are you including the provision of public toilets in your request too?
Does GUBOH still include yourself and the other 2 Johns?

good point - I noticed the other day that the old closed toilets now have a map on them showing where the new loos (at the south beach) are. they're a long way away... there should be some at the harbour.

Annasopra

Off topic posts moved to new thread


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86396375

BigGeorge

Is there any progress on the harbour?

....just sense another year has moved on with no real desire for progress by WCC & Sisk. If Sisk can get away with leaving idle for 5-10 years or maybe flogging their Greystones landbank thats one thing & WCC clearly have powers they are choosing not to exercise...but in the interim we all have to live here & its looks dreadful.

pixbyjohn

BigGeorge wrote: »

Is there any progress on the harbour?

It is being used at least.

BigGeorge

Fair point, I suppose thats really the nub of the question.

Should we
(1) be thankful at least that the marina is operational a least with public access to the south pier even if the place is a bit of a state & we are OK with waiting till Sisk decide to do. If this is the case then we need individually to say nothing & hang on in there with our fingers crossed
or
(2) Should we be questioning why our representatives & council have not forced the private party in the PPP to fulfill its contractual obligations or at least make the place look presentable using the full force of their PPP contract.
I personally believe it is time for us all to be clear - via or TDs & Councillors - on what we need to have in place to make the area look presentable for our families and visitors for the foreseeable future. Does that include some planting, toilets, erosion , fence removal, litter bins, grass, lighting ....?

F3

Theres a fantastic well of interest on the GUBOH facebook page and on Greystones open forum.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/greystones/

John O'Brien posted the following yesterday:

Dear friends, We need a robust community plan of what the town requires from Sisk to be done immediately at the Harbour. A plan that the Chamber of Commerce, the Tidy towns, local residents and the community at large all supports. I understand that JP Sisk attended the private meeting and has indicated three key points: (1) That Sisk now have investors [as opposed to financiers] (2) That remedial works are required (3) That the PCC is not going ahead. The Community must not allow a further period of procrastination on this PPP. Sisk and its investors should understand that we collectively will not tolerate any more empty promises and fudges. They have a contract to fulfil which they have not done, every commercial developer in the country has suffered as a result of the financial crash of the banks. But this is not a speculative commercial development and why do Sisk feel they deserve special treatment? This is a Public Private Partnership and significant breaches of "promises" have repeatedly occurred. The GUBOH committee have completely analysed the entire tender documents for this PPP having eventually succeeded in retrieving same [1000's of documents] under freedom of information requests [having had to finally copy the ombudsman before WCC released same] so we are 95% certain as to where those breaches to the concession agreement have occurred. If they wish to continue they they must realise that the Community of Greystones is united in one voice. GUBOH has a strong voice in this regard. The currency for which Sisk rely upon is time, but time comes with a price. Sisk will have to satisfy the entire community in the interim if construction is ever to recommence. A community plan of what is required should be put before Sisk when they eventually come to the table. Please put your ideas forward now. Regards John.