News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

Annasopra

What's the point of that SISPAR leaflet distributed today with the Wicklow Times?

Fiachra2

Greystones now has its very own yachting magazine!

Produced incidentally by the people (Sisk) who have no money to landscape the harbour area.

fenris

No, everything is going to be okay, the junk mail said so and so did that other remarkably similar junk mail from that politician guy who said he was really brilliant for organising it all

gibbon6

fenris wrote: »

No, everything is going to be okay, the junk mail said so and so did that other remarkably similar junk mail from that politician guy who said he was really brilliant for organising it all

The latest Sispar junk mail that I received today is outrageous and irritating. It contains lots of pictures of yachts and very little else. There is no mention of the Community Plan. What they still propose is the inadequate vague proposal that was firmly rejected by Greystones Town Council late last year. Their plan does not even have any start dates.

By the way the political guy you refer to is no other than Cllr Mitchell who seems to be the political wing of Sispar as the pro Sispar propaganda in his newsletter is very similar to the latest piece of fiction for Sispar.

Fiachra2

You didn't read it closely enough!

Did you not see the reference to the Sisk project as a "community plan". You see you learn something new every day! This proposal was actually your plan all along. Nothing to do with Sisk or WCC really.

Also I see the start date for housing construction has moved to "later in 2014" . In the space of a few months they have already moved this start date twice! Now does this sound familiar to anyone? Why does PCC keep coming into my mind.

However it is reassuring to know that if we trust in Sisk's "continuing commitment" everything will be fine (for our grandchildren)

Fiachra2

Post from GUBOH on facebook


GUBOH deeply regrets that we are now forced to advise the public that there is no point in attending next Tuesday's meeting of the Town Council.

We learned only yesterday that, at the very end of the December meeting, Councillor Grainne McLoughlin proposed an amendment to the motion inviting the Community Plan sponsors, Sisk, WCC, and local TDs to address next Tuesday's meeting.

This motion had been passed as first item on the agenda at the start of the meeting. Councillor McLoughlin's late amendment proposed the cancellation of the January harbour session if Sisk did not attend.

Effectively, passage of this amendment gave Sisk a veto over whether general discussion of the Community Plan would take place at the January meeting. Sisk duly exercised their veto and the whole meeting has been called off.

When Sisk refused to attend the meeting, Wicklow County Council failed to invite any TDs despite this being agreed by the Town Council.

This is a most disappointing outcome. In the very week that Sisk distributed a leaflet in the area insisting that they have the interests of Greystones at heart, they have refused to meet its public representatives for a discussion which might well have led to a solution acceptable to all parties, and especially to the community.

Further, as a result of the terms of Councillor McLoughlin's amendment the Town Council is now unable to hear from the other invited parties and have a thorough discussion of the Community Plan next Tuesday.

Despite this setback GUBOH will continue its campaign to have the harbour area landscaped.

In the light of the cancellation of what could have been a fruitful debate leading to an agreed plan for the harbour site, we are considering several possible actions and will update you in the near future.

Watch this space!

Taltos

You are kidding us?
Why the hell would any sane person make such an amendment? Especially on a topic such as this that is more than likely already going to cause FG to lose many/all of their seats at the next local election...

Crazy. Words fail me - really thought this was a wind-up - had to read it twice.

gibbon6

Outrageous. This is typical Irish stroke politics at its very best! Elected representatives who act in their own interests to the detriment of the public good? :mad:

Cheeky Chops

Democratic process my arse. This is appalling behaviour.

DISGUSTED.

recedite

Seems like they are making deals with each other behind closed doors.
They want to make sure that if anything is discussed in public view, it is fully choreographed in advance.

F3

This is what happens when you sell your soul to the devil. McLaughlin is a co-opted Wicklow County Councilor. She does exactly what WCC want her to do, ditto Jones and Mitchell. Their positions on Greystones Town Council clearly conflict with their WCC positions , and Greystones loses out as a result. What should be a strong voice at the top table works against us when they are forced to choose between Wicklow and Greystones.

We need local Councilors to represent local problems, I care not damn about Wicklow and Eddie Sheedy and his whims, out with Cllrs Mitchell and McLaughlin in the up coming election, out with you and down to Wicklow,!! Thank God Jones is gone too.

Fiachra2

Press release from Tom Fortune

Having encouraged the public to attend the Town Council meeting next Tuesday 28th January 2014, I am very disappointed to announce that there is no point in the community attending as the motion as was adopted at the last council meeting in December 2013 with regard to the harbour development, and was to be attended by the developers, the County Council, Community Group and local TD's is not going to take place. The reason for the cancellation is that SISK have refused to attend. The purpose of this special meeting was to bring all the local public representatives including local TD's together with SISK and the team of professionals who had costed the Community Plan for landscaping the Harbour and hopefully find a way to advance that plan. This opplortunity has now been lost as SISK have contemptuously dismissed the invitation from the Town Council. The arrogance of SISK in this matter is astonishing. Greystones residents this week all received a glossy brochure from SISK in which they talk about their commitment to the community and their plans for the future. Yet in the very same week they refuse to meet with the community of Greystones to discuss the future of the harbour. SISK cannot be allowed treat Greystones in this manner. It is imperative that the County Manager write to SISK and remind them that this is a public/private partnership and that they are required to engage with the public at all times. We can hopefully then reschedule the meeting.

pixbyjohn

pixbyjohn wrote: »

This is the way it is, has been and will be until Sisk move it along. There is no denying that everything so far regarding the harbour has been Sisk's doing. There has never been a robust demonstration of the people of Greystones to change the speed of development by Sisk. We hear lots of talk but no real action from any of the lobby group/s.
It is a shame that the dream has not fully materialised but at least there is something to talk about!

Now without Sisk it appears there is nothing to talk about re the harbour plans!

clocha_liatha

Fiachra2 wrote: »

After many years of campaigning on this matter I have learned that despite strong feelings on the subject if its a cold wet night people will say "ah I wont bother sure there will be plenty of others there" We then end up with a handful of people and certain public representatives and council officials will be very quick to say "there you are....nobody is that bothered about the harbour lets just leave it as it is. If people really cared they would have turned up".

Maybe in am being overly cynical and pessimistic but I am more in favour of giving people the easy option and just asking them to turn up in large numbers in the council offices.

your cynicism and pessimism is well founded i'd say judging from the latest cancellation of the meeting. In truth Sisk are running the show and are hiding behind spin and glossy brochures.
As with most things in life unless you stand up and make the effort then you will not get your reward.
I raised the prospect of a march to the town council office and now it looks like thats a no goer.
what about some form of a concerned protestors gathering at the harbour area some saturday or sunday by guboh?. Raise awareness in peoples minds as to what is actually going on, invite all the local politicians in advance , give them ample oppurtunity to attend and then lets see their true colours,do the support the community plan or not?.
you say you may not get the turnout ? , well if you dont , then at least you will have tried.

legrand

^^^

Agree.
Our inertia is allowing this debacle to continue.

God knows I've met, as I sure regular reader of this thread have, so many locals utterly feed up with Greystone Car Park. Who or what would it take to galvanise the community into a public action/demonstration?

Tom Fortune - you are the only public representative fighting on the communities behalf. Announce a public meeting/protest march to TC building - I'll be there to support you.

What happened to Stephen Donnelly's petition? - close to 1,000 signatures last time I looked - where is Stephen on this? I've not seen any follow up on that..

Fiachra2

Well last night the Town Council voted against a motion by Tom Fortune (seconded by Stephen Stokes) to try and advance the Community Plan by rescheduling a meeting with Sisk. (I believe they voted to meet the HSE instead although to what purpose escapes me).
In the light of that decision we should perhaps give the suggestions about marches and public meetings more serious consideration. It looks like these people have forgotten that there is an election coming.

Langerland

Near .25 Millions Views on this thread...Pretty sure a well organise March on a Saturday or Sunday would draw out a huge crowd....everyone is sick of this. Most (All) people I talk to are not even aware of this thread (or what boards is) but are just as p*ssed off and annoyed with the council and Sisk.

Taltos

What got me is I thought the meeting on Tuesday was cancelled.
At least a turn out there may have impacted this vote.

Boggle isn't just a game - it's the state of my mind trying to get my head around all of the ducking and dodging on our journey to a completed marina. As bad as it was before - the actions over the last few weeks by these individuals who are meant to be representing us just has me thinking we are living in backwards land or at least in 80s Ireland. So much for looking back then and saying shame on our electorate and representatives - the more I read the more convinced I am that little if anything has really changed.

Surely there has to be someone we can lobby on all of this? Someone we can go to or request an intervention. For example in the case of white-collar crime or fraud we can go to the gardai, who will investigate and submit their findings to the DPP to see if a prosecution is warranted. But who can we go to with the concerns in the management of our resources and the impact to tourism/quality of life/economy? Now maybe it is just cosmetic - this is just the impression I have from reading all of this, but where do you go to when the folk meant to be your champion acts in a manner that at high level appears to be 180 degrees contrary to where you want/need them to go.

Boaty

Anyone want to enlighten me to why people aren't happy with the harbour?
(I haven't been following the development)

Banta

Boaty wrote: »

Anyone want to enlighten me to why people aren't happy with the harbour?
(I haven't been following the development)

Not to sound curt or anything here, but have a read of the previous 160+ pages. Even pick 10/15 random pages and read the posts over the last 3+ years of this thread and you'll get a fair idea.

Fiachra2

Either that or just go down and have a look at it!

Boaty

I Live 15 minutes down the road and I've never been to the harbour in Greystones, Wicklow harbour suits my needs.

Fiachra2

Press release from Tom Fortune

I am very disappointed with the outcome of the January meeting of Greystones Town Council. Once again, thanks to the actions of a few councillors, we missed an opportunity to advance the Community Plan for restoring the harbour area. The developers Sisk had been invited to attend the January meeting but had refused. I proposed that they be written to again and invited to the February meeting. It was my intention that the invitation would stress that as the project was a public private partnership they had an obligation to consult with the public and their representatives. The motion was however was not supported by councillors, McLoughlin, Jones, O’Sullivan, Mitchell, Maloney, Kelleher and Norman. I am very conscious that the majority of Greystones residents want to see the harbour area landscaped before another summer comes and goes. I am also conscious that after three years of being misled about the Primary Care Center the people of Greystones do not believe Sisk’s statements about commencing construction of housing “later in the year”.
I am very disappointing that the community’s wishes have been rejected in this way by Greystones Town Council. However I reiterate that I for one will continue to work to see that this eyesore is landscaped as soon as possible.

F3

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Press release from Tom Fortune

I am very disappointed with the outcome of the January meeting of Greystones Town Council. Once again, thanks to the actions of a few councillors, we missed an opportunity to advance the Community Plan for restoring the harbour area. The developers Sisk had been invited to attend the January meeting but had refused. I proposed that they be written to again and invited to the February meeting. It was my intention that the invitation would stress that as the project was a public private partnership they had an obligation to consult with the public and their representatives. The motion was however was not supported by councillors, McLoughlin, Jones, O’Sullivan, Mitchell, Maloney, Kelleher and Norman. I am very conscious that the majority of Greystones residents want to see the harbour area landscaped before another summer comes and goes. I am also conscious that after three years of being misled about the Primary Care Center the people of Greystones do not believe Sisk’s statements about commencing construction of housing “later in the year”.
I am very disappointing that the community’s wishes have been rejected in this way by Greystones Town Council. However I reiterate that I for one will continue to work to see that this eyesore is landscaped as soon as possible.

Dear All,

Just posted on Greystones open forum by John O'Brien:

I did not attend the Town Council meeting on Tuesday but I have spoken to Tom Fortune and Jonathan Leonard to obtain their first hand reports on what transpired.

The following is my personal opinion as a really concerned community member of Greystones:

I've read Basil's comment under Tom Fortunes post, and concur with the chronology of events that have unfolded since the community published its plan on 24th September 2013.

Saying...........this is a public disgrace........is perhaps too easy.

Saying..............that this could be a collective attempt by local representatives to protect the County Manager via the Director of Services on publicly answering or reacting to very detailed list of questions that have been put in writing to them in the past 3 weeks by Tom Fortune and Deputy Donnelly. [which to the best of my knowledge remained unanswered]...........would be much harder to prove.

But I am very sure that the WCC Director of Services did not want to face myself, Stephen and Tom in public at Tuesdays meeting explaining:

1) The costs and viability of the community plan,

2) The mistruths and alarmist content within Sisk's letter to the TC of 16th October 2013.

3) Exactly what is currently being proposed and promised by Sisk and how the remainder of the entire site is being phased and why this cannot be landscaped for us all in the interim.

4) Requesting answers to those same questions posed by Tom and Stephen which currently remain unanswered.

I was not surprised that a meeting was not scheduled for them to face us next month, and who knows what will unfold in April?? ......which does not really matter because the Town Council will cease to exist essentially there after. At least with its current membership and structure.

I bet however, in April Sisk could bring small news, wrapped in a very very shiny package which shall be welcomed by most TC, I'd say 6 out of 9 anyway......enough dazzle to try and overpower responses to awkward questions being posed. Or perhaps this news will come in time for the February meeting, rendering another vote to say "not worth having the meeting in April now, look at the great things happening" etc etc.

The Question is why do they not want to speak with us? Where is all their characteristic forthright & stern faces now? and why does it appear to me that WCC senior staff are blindly protected by most of our current local representatives? Maybe thats what they are supposed to do?

I have directly spoken to most of the Town Councillors about this Harbour issue over the past three years, and again most, on a one to one basis since September 2013, and none of them are qualified to give an opinion on the EIS, Approvals, Tender and contractual matters at hand, and how the project is being managed by WCC.

Some freely admitted this fact, others unfortunately "waffled" and attempted to regurgitate what perhaps has been mumbled to them, but all making no sense nor reason and none are willing to listen to explanations from experts or pursue coherent answers from WCC senior civil servants and report back, nor indeed verify opinion with other experts. Yet they claim to have Greystones interests at heart??

This group has endured three years of patience, onslaught, snide remarks and criticism from those same so called public representatives,

But I say, they are not representing Greystones, they are representing Wicklow County Council Senior Managers and their wishes on the Harbour, and it is obvious [I think] for anyone to see.

How can these kind of people run for office again? will we be stupid enough to vote them back in again? Can we finally put some of them out to grass for good by voting others into office, that do actually care about Greystones?

One Cllr. told me directly at our last face to face meeting that "Eddie just wants to retire and Greystones Harbour is like, his legacy......."

I think she really believed that this is acceptable behaviour from a county manager / civil servant.

I told her that I cared not for his personal ambitions and for her to tell him from me his job is to administer a Government Contract in accordance with the provisions set out in the Contract, and that he has no RIGHT to allow his personal ambitions to continue to affect an entire community even though may may well have the POWER to do so.

As public representatives, that is your job to protect your town, and the people who elected you!

I have been told directly by a Director in Sisk at our meeting in Dail Eireann that there was no point in having a meeting with Tom, Stephen and I,

as the Town Council had already ruled against the community plan,

So it is clear to me that Sisk are willing to use the TC "vote" on such matters, a vote my a majority who are doing as WCC wishes...........Where is the objectivity here?

Who is really looking after Greystones??????????

If any of the current Greystones Town Cllrs disagree with what I say here, come forward, I would welcome a public debate with you on any of these issues,

even if it is for you "to put me right" and if you do put me right, "I shall bow out" with a thousand public apologies...

The debate should be recorded [AS SHOULD THE TOWN COUNCIL MEETINGS I might add] digitally and published online, I'd really like the community to hear some of the stuff I've heard from you, instead of the blurb I know you will give when you are chasing votes again, or say one thing then do something else.....

Time for change......

Tom Fortune has my support and vote for his commitment and pursuit of the truth, after that....... I start to struggle to see who else out of other existing Town Councillors will have my vote.

[including those who have decided now not to run and change their mind]

I hand the matters now over to Tom & Stephen, and the GUBOH people, I'm available if you need me. Good luck.

Regards

John

F3

By the way, I heard this evening that George Jones made special mention of "F3" and Boards at his TC meeting on Tuesday.

Thanks Georgie, I knew you were reading all the time, and hope I and my esteemed bloggers, enlightened your dark and tunnelled views on certain matters. Enjoy your retirement and golden handshake XXX

legrand

Thanks for your comments and indeed your efforts on this matter F3.

To Tom Fortune, I, and I'm sure many others, am appreciative of your continued leadership and efforts in trying to resolve this matter. You certainly have my vote.

As for the collective FG public 'representatives' - I say shame on you. And to the new FG candidates - really, I don't doubt your best intentions - but the local cabal (if you do manage to get elected) will have you tow the party line - sorry but you won't get my vote either.

gibbon6

Once again the majority of our town councillors/county councillors (with the exception of Tom Fortune) have taken the side of big business and their masters in Wicklow County Council over the public interest. At every turn in the bloated development in the harbour they have supported the commercial Sisks over the harbour residents. They are aware that Sisks are routinely ignoring the planning conditions attaching to this public private partnership and they are doing nothing about it. I consider any public money spent paying for this showers of chancers to be a total waste. They are a thundering disgrace and should hang their heads in shame.

legrand

JCB at work at far end of Marina basin - could this be the start of a pedestrian track (Sisk alternative to the Community Plan) to the north wall breakwater?

Fiachra2

That's the one where you get to the north wall via Bray?

legrand

Fiachra2 wrote: »

That's the one where you get to the north wall via Bray?

Erm not sure what you mean Fiachra?
As of this morning I notice a number of truckloads of hard-core have been put down and a ramp leading up to the 'north' breakwater put in place.

If access is on the cards - my guess is it will be just an extension to the road via the marina basin and then a track (tarmac to follow?) around to the breakwater. What strikes me is I cannot see any markings (you know, standard stuff you would see if a survey was done). Rather - a man, a JCB and some hardcore - make a path over there would you like a good fella.

In the longer term all these temp works will become permanent fixtures - god knows what the place will look like in 5 10 or 20 years from now.

Sisk you should be proud.