News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

legrand

meet someone who happened to chat with the guys erecting the new fencing outside the sailing club recently and they mentioned that apartments construction expected to start after xmas.

[large pinch of salt]

Anyone?

2011

legrand wrote: »

meet someone who happened to chat with the guys erecting the new fencing outside the sailing club recently and they mentioned that apartments construction expected to start after xmas.

[large pinch of salt]

Anyone?

I will believe it when I see it but property prices are definitely on the way back up.

Alun

Just down the road from me in Bray there's a site previously occupied by 3 large houses that were bought up and knocked down in preparation for building apartments back in the boom years. It's lain dormant until just a month or so ago but is now being built on. Also 2 or 3 single brownfield sites close by that all have been built on now, so it does look as if things are changing. Whether you consider that that's a good or a bad thing is another question ...

Cerco

2011 wrote: »

I will believe it when I see it but property prices are definitely on the way back up.

Take a look at the recent price changes on myhome.ie. They are falling, there is no doubt about it. There was an initial recovery which has all but petered out.

Blingy

Cerco wrote: »

Take a look at the recent price changes on myhome.ie. They are falling, there is no doubt about it. There was an initial recovery which has all but petered out.

And may fall further next year with the new central bank guidelines of a minimum deposit of 20%.

portarlington speakers

It is a great opportunity. Lets hope they get it right.

Harry Kane

legrand wrote: »

meet someone who happened to chat with the guys erecting the new fencing outside the sailing club recently and they mentioned that apartments construction expected to start after xmas.

[large pinch of salt]

Anyone?

Did they say which xmas??? Sisks are supposed to be building the clubhouses and public square before they start on the apartments in January 2015. At least this is what they told the councillors in September. But hey Sisks have made so many broken promises during this whole debacle that more broken promises would be no real surprise. They will also need to put in all the services before they build any apartments. Anyway property prices are in decline again as pointed out by other posters. The dead cat bounce has stopped.

recedite

Fiachra2 wrote: »

From Councillor Derek Mitchell…

There have been protests by Greystones fishermen complaining there is no place for them in the new harbour. There was only one full time fisherman using the old harbour in the years before it was closed. I have asked that fish landing facilities should be provided for him and expect this can be done. Part time anglers have much better facilities than before.

We must avoid the stench that comes from fishing boats in and around Wicklow Port.

There is an article in current edition of "The Wicklow Voice" freebie by Derek Mitchell. Whereas before he had decided that one token commercial fisherman should be allowed into the harbour, now he has "rowed back" (pardon the pun) to zero fishermen. He now claims that the one guy (no names mentioned) <Mod Edit: Photo removed so that no names are hinted at either> got adequate financial compensation way back, and does not deserve to be facilitated now. And that nobody else had the proper fishing license. And that the only thing they caught anyway was whelks, which were all exported.
Does this mean no Irish person would eat the locally caught seafood?
It kind of makes this photo hard to explain (no whelks and lots of buyers)...

Fiachra2

The house price fall was probably factored in already by the new developers.

They talked of building clubhouses in Jan 2015 and not starting houses until two years later. The latter part of that statement makes sense in that they were well aware that there was an element of dead cat bounce in recent property rises and so a prudent investor would wait until the situation had stabilised.

The latter part you can read as "we will make some more gestures to mollify the community and facilitate WCC and certain councillors in pretending that we are advancing the project" However a gesture of adequate proportions (take down the fencing) might be sufficient.

Fiachra2

I see that Sisk are reported by the Irish Times as one of the Irish companies channelling funds through a Luxembourg company to avoid tax. The system seems to allow the principals of Sisk to pay themselves interest on their own savings but avoid tax on the interest income. Of course there is nothing illegal in this (that I am aware of) but it raises a few issues:

The company that claimed it has no money to landscape the harbour area has a reported €14M available to invest in tax avoidance schemes.

Should any publicly funded body (WCC) be doing business with an entity which declines to pay tax in Ireland (the very tax which funds that local authority).

How can NAMA justify writing off the debts of a company that appears to have piles of cash and indeed has sufficient funds that it can divert it the into schemes that have the sole function of avoiding tax?

red_bairn

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I see that Sisk are reported by the Irish Times as one of the Irish companies channelling funds through a Luxembourg company to avoid tax. The system seems to allow the principals of Sisk to pay themselves interest on their own savings but avoid tax on the interest income. Of course there is nothing illegal in this (that I am aware of) but it raises a few issues:

The company that claimed it has no money to landscape the harbour area has a reported €14M available to invest in tax avoidance schemes.

Should any publicly funded body (WCC) be doing business with an entity which declines to pay tax in Ireland (the very tax which funds that local authority).

How can NAMA justify writing off the debts of a company that appears to have piles of cash and indeed has sufficient funds that it can divert it the into schemes that have the sole function of avoiding tax?

I thought NAMA wrote of the SisPark company not Sisk?

Fiachra2

The loan was to Sispar which was originally a JV between Sisk and Park. Sisk took over Parks part of the company and with it the loan and then repaid that loan. Neither NAMA nor (obviously) sisk will reveal how much they paid but the movements in the liabilities in their balance sheet shows it was rather less than the full value of the loan.

legrand

Am open to correction on this but as I understand it ~€48m was spent on the harbour construction funded by a AIB loan.
Nama wrote off ~30m (net spend 18M) - for reasons unclear to me (Sisk had the ability to repay the loan - they did not have to call in their guarantor) so why write off most of the loan?
WCC gifted more land estimated to be worth ~17m (in terms of gross income post property sales)
So Sisk (at least on the books) committed/spent all of €1M to date.

It stinks and I don't understand why this is not national news.

Honestly!

legrand wrote: »

Am open to correction on this but as I understand it ~€48m was spent on the harbour construction funded by a AIB loan.
Nama wrote off ~30m (net spend 18M) - for reasons unclear to me (Sisk had the ability to repay the loan - they did not have to call in their guarantor) so why write off most of the loan?
WCC gifted more land estimated to be worth ~17m (in terms of gross income post property sales)
So Sisk (at least on the books) committed/spent all of €1M to date.

It stinks and I don't understand why this is not national news.

Would not surprise me in the least. In their "cap-in-hand" approach to all developers, our Fine Gael and Fianna Fail councillors would quite easily and even willingly have the wool pulled over their eyes.

The clamouring to have this €300m "success" in Greystones (which Derek Mitchell astonishingly still calls a success) on their CVs would have over-ridden much of the due diligence, budgeting and basic logic.

pixbyjohn

This is not to be missed.
http://www.greystonesguide.ie/old-greystones-harbour-exhibition/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GreystonesGuide+%28Greystones+Guide%29

Honestly!

Fiachra2 wrote: »

The house price fall was probably factored in already by the new developers.

They talked of building clubhouses in Jan 2015 and not starting houses until two years later. The latter part of that statement makes sense in that they were well aware that there was an element of dead cat bounce in recent property rises and so a prudent investor would wait until the situation had stabilised.

The latter part you can read as "we will make some more gestures to mollify the community and facilitate WCC and certain councillors in pretending that we are advancing the project" However a gesture of adequate proportions (take down the fencing) might be sufficient.

Anyone I speak to who visit Greystones are astounded how the place has been destroyed by the metal and concrete eyesore AKA Greystones Marina.

One girl said it reminds her of Guantanamo Bay, without the captives!

Fine Gael / Labour pay lip service to "job creation" and "helping small businesses"...while Greystones businesses are suffering as this eyesore puts people off visiting.

How many more years have we to look at the metal fences, concrete "beach" and bleakness?

Jimjay

Honestly! wrote: »

Anyone I speak to who visit Greystones are astounded how the place has been destroyed by the metal and concrete eyesore AKA Greystones Marina.

One girl said it reminds her of Guantanamo Bay, without the captives!

Fine Gael / Labour pay lip service to "job creation" and "helping small businesses"...while Greystones businesses are suffering as this eyesore puts people off visiting.

How many more years have we to look at the metal fences, concrete "beach" and bleakness?

The majority of my visitors from outside greystones actually really like it and enjoy walking around it and most say it will be fab when finished (although they haven't had to put up with the building site and not actually knowing when it will be finished)

Taltos

Bit like Jimjay here, my OH likes it, she prefers it to the old harbour.
But I grew up here, have fond memories of racing the storms on the wall, or watching Pigsy push Kerry into the sea at the steps and then dive in after him when Kerry screamed as he fell that he couldn't swim. Or my brother jumping off the wall, coming too close to the rocks and tearing the back of his legs to hell.

I loved the sound of the whistle when the waves hit, could hear it in my room at night, that and the train. Yes is stank sometimes, but with the kish on the end trapping the waters and sand in that was inevitable.

It's gone though.

I don't particularly like the narrow walkway. I hate the fences, as someone just said it really does look like a prison yard, but I prefer the prison from the Walking Dead to Guantanamo Bay.

I don't know what can be done now. But I would hope that those responsible are held to account for it. I really want a formal investigation of the whole process, from contract through to delivery by a reputable and trustworthy party. Do I want careers ruined? Right now, with locals being banned from fishing or landing their catch damn right I do. I think it's amazing that this is not getting more notice in the press, I can't fathom how what was traditionally a fishing village now finds itself the proud owner of a marina where fishermen are not only not welcome but are banned under threat of arrest, and where kids are now not allowed swim.

red_bairn

Taltos wrote:

[...] and where kids are now not allowed swim.

That doesn't stop them!

I think they need to remove the fencing at the South Pier and replace it with walls to have partitions between the maintenance area and the pier (obviously to stop the kids or adults from entering that area from stopping them vandalising the boats or jumping into the water from there).

They won't remove the rest of the fencing until the Club House is done and there is demand for housing/apartments...so they won't budge.

I didn't realise there were tourist trips to Guantanamo Bay!

Cheeky Chops

I took a trip down to Grey Gaol on Sunday after months of abstention. It was me, one dog and a couple of confused tourists.

The Guards were busy in their hut. We walked past the fences for what seemed like miles but was perhaps a few metres and a whistle was heard followed by a thump. Someone friendly had left us a parcel of nice white stuff and tablets. I did not let the noise of the drones deter me from some frantic lesbian sex before being led back to the wagon to return home.

I would definitely recommend Greystones harbour area as a tourist destination for families with small kids or a romantic getaway for couples. If you are really lucky you will see the art exhibition on the electric fences - do not touch the artwork!

Remember to book your overnight stay at the La Touche. It will be a night to remember. All other hotels are too far too walk with chains on.

Enjoy!

clocha_liatha

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I took a trip down to Grey Gaol on Sunday after months of abstention. It was me, one dog and a couple of confused tourists.

The Guards were busy in their hut. We walked past the fences for what seemed like miles but was perhaps a few metres and a whistle was heard followed by a thump. Someone friendly had left us a parcel of nice white stuff and tablets. I did not let the noise of the drones deter me from some frantic lesbian sex before being led back to the wagon to return home.

I would definitely recommend Greystones harbour area as a tourist destination for families with small kids or a romantic getaway for couples. If you are really lucky you will see the art exhibition on the electric fences - do not touch the artwork!

Remember to book your overnight stay at the La Touche. It will be a night to remember. All other hotels are too far too walk with chains on.

Enjoy!

very strange , all i can think of is that you tried the white tablets

pixbyjohn

Regardless of what people say about the harbour and marina, visitors are coming to that area in large numbers. Over the summer and autumn months there has hardly been a day without lots of people walking around the area. Kids playing on the shore and the seafront full of cars. Sweeneys and Spendloves are doing better business now than ever before. Even the Beach House is serving food everyday. Greystones is still a very desirable place for visitors to spend a few hours in.
I fully admit that the area is being neglected by the powers that be, a major omission it that there are no public toilet facilities near the harbour. That is surely a disgrace and needs to be remedied immediately. No need to wait for Sisk to provide it.

legrand

^^^
Aside from an motion to subsidise mooring costs for fisherman I don't see any other harbour related actions carried out by Jennifer Whitmore since her election - given (afaik) her electoral success was based on the belief she would hard to sort out the mess this is all rather disappointing.

RosieJoe

From the Bray People

New venture partners for the Harbour works

A progress report on Greystones Harbour was delivered at the meeting by district clerk Myra Porter.
Sean Quinn of Wicklow County Council wrote that arrangements are being finalised between Sisk and new venture partners.

He wrote that moorings for local fishermen are being assessed. However provision for that will mean fewer for other harbour users. A more detailed report will be provided on that shortly.

He also wrote that he did not agree to meet with fishermen. Cathaoirleach Tom Fortune and other members interjected.

They said that he had agreed to a meeting with the fishermen, Sisk, and members of Greystones Municipal District. Cllr Fortune said that it was decided during a special meeting to discuss the harbour. 'People were getting hot under the collar,' he said. He said that it was decided to arrange another meeting rather than get bogged down. 'The only people who haven't had any involvement in this are the fishermen.'

Cllr Grainne McLoughlin welcomed that the final hoardings have come down at the sailing club. She added that grass land has opened up to the public. However she believes that the place for the moorings for a fishing trawler is the exterior of the north pier. 'The more I think about it, the more I think I'm right,' she said. 'The idea of putting a trawler in the middle of the harbour, we know in our hearts it's not going to work. We have to be big about this.' She noted that there is a contract to put cleats there as part of an agreement between BJ Marina and Sisk. 'It's obviously the only place for trawlers,' she said. 'We have to make sense of this.'

The report also announced that the clubhouse works will begin in February 2015.

Cllr Gerry Walsh welcomed this, however Cllr Nicola Lawless said that they previously said that work would begin in January. 'We're having meeting after meeting with no solution,' said Jennifer on the issue of the fishermen. 'We need to be firm and get answers, it's getting beyond stupidity.'

Cllr Jennifer Whitmore said that Sisk have still not provided a soft copy of a presentation they gave some time ago.

Bray People

Tabnabs

RosieJoe wrote: »

From the Bray People

Cllr Grainne McLoughlin welcomed that the final hoardings have come down at the sailing club. She added that grass land has opened up to the public. However she believes that the place for the moorings for a fishing trawler is the exterior of the north pier. 'The more I think about it, the more I think I'm right,' she said. 'The idea of putting a trawler in the middle of the harbour, we know in our hearts it's not going to work. We have to be big about this.' She noted that there is a contract to put cleats there as part of an agreement between BJ Marina and Sisk. 'It's obviously the only place for trawlers,' she said. 'We have to make sense of this.'

Can someone please point out exactly where this cllr thinks is the correct position? She seems to be suggesting the exterior i.e. seaward! side of the north pier, aka outside the harbour...?!

RosieJoe

Tabnabs wrote: »

Can someone please point out exactly where this cllr thinks is the correct position? She seems to be suggesting the exterior i.e. seaward! side of the north pier, aka outside the harbour...?!

I think you're right. But beware so does she

'The more I think about it, the more I think I'm right,' she said.

loyatemu

No way of mooring on the seaward side of the wall as it's covered in rock armour. I assume she means outside the marina basin, in the main basin of the harbour:

RosieJoe

loyatemu wrote: »

No way of mooring on the seaward side of the wall as it's covered in rock armour. I assume she means outside the marina basin, in the main basin of the harbour:

I think she does mean outside the harbour, not just outside the marina.

The idea of putting a trawler in the middle of the harbour, we know in our hearts it's not going to work

loyatemu

RosieJoe wrote: »

I think she does mean outside the harbour, not just outside the marina.

possibly she means 10 miles outside the harbour - in Dun Laoghaire.

If she really is suggesting they moor on the outside of the breakwater, what planet is she on?

Tabnabs

Sadly for her the only safe place for boats of any size or class is the inner basin. In any bad weather (easterly) the outer basin is totally unprotected.

It might disappoint the good Cllr, but in other harbours and marinas, fishing and leisure boats sit happily together.


Brighton Marina