Honest question?

DeCoR18

Why are you as Muslims living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

Zaynzma

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Why are you as Muslims living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

Do you think the following question is acceptable?

"Why are you as Jews living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Jewish faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?"


Anyway, I can tell you that I am a 'member of the Islamic faith' and I live in the west because I am a westerner. I was born in Ireland of Irish parents. In case you require further clarification on the matter, I am White.

The only conflict I can think of in being a Muslim and living in the west is the fact that western armies are busy invading and occupying lands which are predominantly Muslim and killing thousands in the process. But then again I wouldn't be too happy about that even if the victims weren't mainly Muslims so I don't know if that's really relevant (after all I've been on anti-war marches with Christians, Jews and Athiests who felt the same as I did).

I have certain beliefs and practices like worshipping 5 times a day, modest dress and behaviour, having patience at all times, giving to charity, fasting, and showing good manners towards everyone - but I can do these things here in the west as well as anywhere else. I find I can still be friendly and polite to someone who doesn't have the same beliefs and practices and hope for the same in return.

In short, Christian values are very similar to Islamic values, and I would dare to suggest, most of these values are not exclusive to Christianity or Islam or even any religion but to all decent people.

As for ideology - which ideologies were you thinking of, particularly? there are a lot of similarities between Islam/Christianity/Judaism, they all have more in common with each other than any of them to to athiesm or agnosticism anyway.

Hobbes

Islam is a religion. Not a country. Based on your username, were you really looking for an answer?

wes

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Why are you as Muslims living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

I was born here.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I don't think there's any country in the world where the laws wouldn't conflict with Islam.

Look at Turkey for example.

irishconvert

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Why are you as Muslims living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

Because I am Irish and was born in Dublin.

imported_guy

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Why are you as Muslims living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

money, and alot of it , i wouldnt care where i live, as long as i have a well paying job etc, and seriously in the past 8 years i can probably count on one hand the ammount of "islam" related questions i have been asked by irish people, and i havent had any problem with racism what so ever or discrimination, other people who said "oh irish people are like this and that" are either cowards themselves or just didnt "integrate" well like the exponential function. i dont take BS from anyone, im a BIG guy, so maybe people get intimidated? and dont BS me? i dunno what ever it is i havent had any problems

Cadiz

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Why are you as [catholics/communists/scientolgists/pro-lifers/pro-choicers/free-marketeers/presbyterians/foreigners/lesbians/moonies/bankers/right wingers/leftwingers/pacifists/gurus/clergy/eco-warriors/hindus/penioners/landlords/trade unionists/capitalists/traditionalists/family value campaigners/single mothers living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith someone with differing beliefs living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

Why pick on Muslims? I'm sure some of your own beliefs clash with common ideology, laws and values. A civilised society tolerates all sorts of belief and value systems.

mcmoustache

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Why are you as Muslims living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

Most people want to provide a good life and opertunities for their families. Nothing wrong there. And the vast majority of muslims don't appear to have any issue with living in a catholic/secular democracy. Many muslims were born here but the ones that immigrated did so for the same reasons as every other group.

I get the impression that your question is directed at the radicals. The Abu Hamzas and such. Their intentions are pretty clear (just youtube it). They radicalise and politicise young, second generation immigrants and get them to buy into and promote wahabiism. It's important to note that these guys are a minority but they do shout the loudest. To paraphrase Omid Jalili, you wouldn't judge Americans by what the grand wizard of the KKK says.

Son Of A Vidic

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Why are you as Muslims living in Western Nations? What is there in particular to gain for a member of the Islamic faith living in a country with conflicting ideology laws and values?

Is it purely financial?

That's one weird question, I will avoid reading between the lines on that one. It's a bit like saying - Why is Golders Green in London, virtually owned and run by Jews? why don't they just live in Israel? because their rules and values conflict with all that is around them. If I was to genuinely believe that, I might as well set up an Irish branch of the Nazi Party.

DeCoR18

mcmoustache wrote: »

Most people want to provide a good life and opertunities for their families. Nothing wrong there.

On the contrary, I consider that an extremely serious issue, as this country has a limited amount of resources. Muslim presence here brings greater competition for these resources.

When it really comes down to it I don't see what Irish people have to gain from Muslims living in Ireland.

DeCoR18

irishconvert wrote: »

Because I am Irish and was born in Dublin.

If you are a Muslim you cannot be culturally Irish. You would have more in common with someone living thousands of miles away than you would with your average person on the street. I've you've decided you hate your own people so much perhaps you would be better off living in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia perhaps.

heavyballs

DeCoR18 wrote: »

On the contrary, I consider that an extremely serious issue, as this country has a limited amount of resources. Muslim presence here brings greater competition for these resources.

When it really comes down to it I don't see what Irish people have to gain from Muslims living in Ireland.

i can tell you if you were a muslim you'd be a sheite muslim as you talk so much of it,you're argument is baseless,senceless and unfair.

DeCoR18

heavyballs wrote: »

i can tell you if you were a muslim you'd be a sheite muslim as you talk so much of it,you're argument is baseless,senceless and unfair.

The base -> competition.

The sense -> looking out for your own people first.

Unfair -> Yes multiculturalism is unfair to working class Irish people.

DeCoR18

Just to add nobody has given me a satisfactory answer other than financial. Quite ironic really :rolleyes:

wes

DeCoR18 wrote: »

The base -> competition.

This assumes all Muslims are immigrants, which is of course false. Islam is a Religion. Some people convert, and some people are born to immigrant parents.

Also, there is a tiny amount of Muslims in this country, and I would actually say in the grand scheme or things, that the number is small enough to be irrelevant from a competition stand point for jobs.

DeCoR18 wrote: »

The sense -> looking out for your own people first.

Irish people come in all shapes and sizes these days. I fail to see how a Muslim can't also be Irish.

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Unfair -> Yes multiculturalism is unfair to working class Irish people.

Multiculturalism has existed in this country like before the arrival of Muslims. The simple existence of different types of Christians would be one example.

wes

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Just to add nobody has given me a satisfactory answer other than financial. Quite ironic really :rolleyes:

You are of course talking utter nonsense.

I was born here. Why the hell else should I live anywhere else. If that isn't good enough of an answer for you, then thats your business.

wes

DeCoR18 wrote: »

If you are a Muslim you cannot be culturally Irish.

One would think that we Irish of all people would know the danger of sectarianism, but I guess some people just don't learn.

Do you also think Irish Jews, Irish Atheists, Irish Protestants, and Irish Buddhists etc, can't really be culturally Irish as well? What exactly would prevent people with a different Religion (or of none) from being culturally Irish?

DeCoR18 wrote: »

You would have more in common with someone living thousands of miles away than you would with your average person on the street. I've you've decided you hate your own people so much perhaps you would be better off living in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia perhaps.

Even more nonsense. How exactly does changing one Religion mean hating ones people? This kind of sectarian attitude has caused a lot of pain and suffereing in this country and its sad that some people haven't moved away from such attitudes.

DeCoR18

wes wrote: »

Even more nonsense. How exactly does changing one Religion mean hating ones people? This kind of sectarian attitude has caused a lot of pain and suffereing in this country and its sad that some people haven't moved away from such attitudes.

Listen I'm not going to get into a serious debate here as nothing will be achieved.

I just find it interesting that you would so quickly turn your back on your own family and people, completely ignoring the enslavement of white eastern European women and their exportation to Saudi Arabia and various other Arab nations. Completely ignore the absolute epidemic of rape thats occuring in Sweden carried out exclusively by Muslim men.

All I'll say is don't think for a second that Irish men are as emasculated as Swedens, if there was even a hint of something like that happening here.

So since the Muslim rape of Swedish women is clearly based on race, if you happened to live in Sweden would you still support your Muslim brothers?

wes

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Listen I'm not going to get into a serious debate here as nothing will be achieved.

Then why bother posting in the first place then?

DeCoR18 wrote: »

I just find it interesting that you would so quickly turn your back on your own family and people, completely ignoring the enslavement of white eastern European women and their exportation to Saudi Arabia and various other Arab nations.

Its funny that you don't have a clue what your talking about. It really is.

Firstly, my family is Muslim. My grand parents came here decades ago. I am proud to be Irish and a Muslim. I see no contradiction between the 2.

As for Saudi Arabia, they certainly engage in all kind of ****, but I fail to see the relevance. Also, they treat all there domestic servants like utter crap, not just the ones from Eastern Europe, they treat people from Indonesia just as bad.

Also, would you ask the same of Catholics regarding Priests raping and abusing children in this country?

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Completely ignore the absolute epidemic of rape thats occuring in Sweden carried out exclusively by Muslim men.

Sorry, but this nonsense that only appears on rubbish internet sites.

And again, would you ask the same question to Catholics regarding Priests raping and abusing 1000's of children?

DeCoR18 wrote: »

All I'll say is don't think for a second that Irish men are as emasculated as Swedens.

Guess what, some can be Irish and Muslim.

DeCoR18 wrote: »

So since the Muslim rape of Swedish women is clearly based on race, if you happened to live in Sweden would you still support your Muslim brothers?

Anyone who rapes anyone should be jailed plain and simple, which is something we don't do in this country, as was seen in the government shameful collusion in covering up child abuse in this country.

Also, I once again reject your nonsense about Sweden, as I know it comes from crappy internet sites.

DeCoR18

wes wrote: »

Firstly, my family is Muslim. My grand parents came here decades ago. I am proud to be Irish and a Muslim. I see no contradiction between the 2.

As for Saudi Arabia, they certainly engage in all kind of ****, but I fail to see the relevance. Also, they treat all there domestic servants like utter crap, not just the ones from Eastern Europe, they treat people from Indonesia just as bad.

Also, would you ask the same of Catholics regarding Priests raping and abusing children in this country?



Sorry, but this nonsense that only appears on rubbish internet sites.

And again, would you ask the same question to Catholics regarding Priests raping and abusing 1000's of children?



Guess what, some can be Irish and Muslim.

You can deny the epidemic of rape across Sweden all you want it doesn't change the facts. No as the rape of children by priests was not carried out on the focus of a racial fetish as the rape of Swedish women is.

Regarding my last comment, seems you missed what I was saying, I was implying there would be very swift punishment handed out here if something like that was to ever happen. But you are correct the Muslim population here is limited perhaps we'll see when it increases.

Look in fairness you've been a good sport so far, so finally one last question.

Why is it that Muslims have decided to enter Europe on mass for financial gain but not enter China and Japan on a mass scale?

Simple answer is because they are not allowed, China and Japan strangely enough are not f_ucking stupid enough to displace their own people.

irishconvert

DeCoR18 banned.

wes

DeCoR18 wrote: »

You can deny the epidemic of rape across Sweden all you want it doesn't change the facts. No as the rape of children by priests was not carried out on the focus of a racial fetish as the rape of Swedish women is.

Again, you are making no sense. Muslims are not a race. Muslims come in many different races. There can be white Muslims. So you entire argument of a racial fetish is nonsensical at best. There are Muslims from the majority of races on the planet.

Also, rape is rape. The fact that you don't seem to be have an issue with rape by Priests in this country is rather telling imho.

As for rape in Sweden:
Sweden tops European rape league
Is rape rampant in gender-equal Sweden?
Swedish rapists ‘enjoy impunity’: Amnesty International

Oh and following quote from the 3rd article debunks your absurd notion:

Swedish rapists ‘enjoy impunity’: Amnesty International

--SNIP--
In addition to challenging victim and crime stereotypes, perceptions surrounding ‘typical’ perpetrators must also be considered. The UN Special Report discusses how there is a widespread belief that the type of men who commit intimate-partner violence are not typical, ‘normal’ Swedes.

They are usually imagined as somewhat ‘deviant’ - unemployed, uneducated, alcoholic or from non-Western backgrounds, and so on. However, as Ertürk challenges: “In absolute numbers, the vast majority of the perpetrators of intimate-partner violence are ‘ordinary’ Swedish men.”
--SNIP--

Seems to me that people blaming Muslims and people not from the "West" are actually helping rapists get away with there crimes.

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Regarding my last comment, seems you missed what I was saying, I was implying there would be very swift punishment handed out here if something like that was to ever happen. But you are correct the Muslim population here is limited perhaps we'll see when it increases.

Really it would? I think of all the Priests who got off raping and abusing children tell a very different story. Our current track record is quite frankly abysmal. Its rather simple, we didn't hand out swift punishment to rapists and abusers in the Catholic church in this country, and in fact actively covered up that any crimes took place. So, I don't see how you can come to such a conclusion, when in reality we did no such thing.

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Look in fairness you've been a good sport so far, so finally one last question.

Why is it that Muslims have decided to enter Europe on mass for financial gain but not enter China and Japan on a mass scale?

The French invited in a bunch of people from the former colonies to work there. The British did the same. A lot of Muslims came to Europe due to the demand for cheap labour.

Now, we have Muslims born in Europe to immigrant parents. Those people did not come to Europe the were born here. Secondly we have converts, who again also born here.

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Simple answer is because they are not allowed, China and Japan strangely enough are not f_ucking stupid enough to displace their own people.

There are Millions of Muslims in China firstly. Most are from ethnic groups indigenous to the country.

As for Japan, they are pretty Xenophobic to all foreigners and not just Muslim immigrants, but there are some Muslims in Japan, some of them are even ethnic Japanese converts.

philologos

Zaynzma wrote: »

As for ideology - which ideologies were you thinking of, particularly? there are a lot of similarities between Islam/Christianity/Judaism, they all have more in common with each other than any of them to to athiesm or agnosticism anyway.

I agree with you, but there are some crucial differences in terms of salvation, and the role of various figures.

To stay on topic, if the OP weren't banned I'd ask him the same question. Who is to say that any Muslim is less welcome in this country as I am? It isn't my country, I don't own it.

FriarMo

If I was to choose (with great difficulty) to ignore the 18 in the name which has huge symbolism with neo-nazis 1-8= A.-H. and ignore the very bigoted and prejudiced language, I’d like to ask Decor18 if he also resents the 1000’s of Muslim doctors and health workers as well whom if they decided to pack up and leave Ireland tomorrow (even though Ireland is the country of birth of many of them and the only home they know) the health system would collapse. Or do you resent the 100s of Muslim researchers in Irish universities in the fields of Physics, Medicine, Computer Sciences etc… He forgets that resources are not finite and a country’s most valuable resource is its people which are enriched by the addition of vibrant well educated migrants. That’s not to say there shouldn’t be a degree of regulation of course.

Honestly Decor18 would you not be better off immigrating to the UK where you could enrich the likes of the BNP whom you obviously share their values. Real Irish patriots did not give their lives in the cause of freedom and equality for the likes of you to spread this intolerant filth in Ireland.

The Recliner

FriarMo wrote: »

If I was to choose (with great difficulty) to ignore the 18 in the name which has huge symbolism with neo-nazis 1-8= A.-H. and ignore the very bigoted and prejudiced language, I’d like to ask Decor18 if he also resents the 1000’s of Muslim doctors and health workers as well whom if they decided to pack up and leave Ireland tomorrow (even though Ireland is the country of birth of many of them and the only home they know) the health system would collapse. Or do you resent the 100s of Muslim researchers in Irish universities in the fields of Physics, Medicine, Computer Sciences etc… He forgets that resources are not finite and a country’s most valuable resource is its people which are enriched by the addition of vibrant well educated migrants. That’s not to say there shouldn’t be a degree of regulation of course.

Honestly Decor18 would you not be better off immigrating to the UK where you could enrich the likes of the BNP whom you obviously share their values. Real Irish patriots did not give their lives in the cause of freedom and equality for the likes of you to spread this intolerant filth in Ireland.

DeCor18 can no longer reply as he has been sitebanned

FriarMo

Thanks Recliner. At this stage its more rhetorical than anything else :-) Though I do hope he/she reads it.