Was Lars' drumming all that good in AJFA?

nyarlothothep

A lot of people say Lars reached a new standard with his drumming on AJFA. How would you rate it in the pantheon of drummers? For example while I don't think Jimmy Page is the most technically gifted of guitarists he's pretty damn solid and knows enough technique to play some really impressive sounding guitar solos. Would Lars fit into this description on AJFA?

Malice

nyarlothothep wrote: »

A lot of people say Lars reached a new standard with his drumming on AJFA.

Who are these people exactly?

nyarlothothep wrote:

How would you rate it in the pantheon of drummers?

Do you mean how would I rate him as a drummer or how would I rate the drumming on the album? To me Lars is an average drummer, nowhere near as technically proficient as the likes of Portnoy or Peart.

nyarlothothep wrote:

For example while I don't think Jimmy Page is the most technically gifted of guitarists he's pretty damn solid and knows enough technique to play some really impressive sounding guitar solos. Would Lars fit into this description on AJFA?

No because I doubt Ulrich can play the guitar and even if he could he's nowhere near the level of Hetfield and Hammet . Seriously though, Lars used to be a solid drummer but over the last few years his playing has gotten sloppy and he can't sustain the fast beats in the way that he used to.

GLaDOS

I would't rate Lars as a particularly amazing drummer, he's (was?) a good drummer, nothing more really. As Malice said, the likes of Peart or Portnoy wipe the floor with him technically.

Max Power1

I think it shows up Lars' ability that many fans rate the metallica shows with Dave Lombardo or Joey Jordison as better technically than any shows with lars.

Sephiroth_dude

I like lar's drumming on AJFA,particularly on that song.Hes gotten very sloppy live though.

nyarlothothep

Could you put in equivalence with guitarists so that I could understand his technical ability better? Is he a jimmy page of drumming or lower like noel gallagher?

empirix

rubbish, amazing drumming on ajfa,very technical and maybe a bit overly so but nonetheless brilliant and certainly no drummer came close on a metal album up to that time

GLaDOS

empirix wrote: »

no drummer came close on a metal album up to that time

I'm not so good with metal before then, but certainly anything I've heard by Rush before then I'd rate higher in terms of drumming

Otis Driftwood

empirix wrote: »

certainly no drummer came close on a metal album up to that time

Emmmmmm.

demanufactured

nedtheshed wrote: »

Emmmmmm.

+1

Mr. CooL ICE

Back in the 80s, Lars was the man. He wasn't the best drummer in thrash, but he came very close to it and anyone who complains about his drumming from back then doesn't know what they're talking about.

Mushy

LordChessington wrote: »

Back in the 80s, Lars was the man. He wasn't the best drummer in thrash, but he came very close to it and anyone who complains about his drumming from back then doesn't know what they're talking about.

His drumming back then wasn't that great. It was very solid yes, but nothing standout amazing. Peart, Burr, McBrain, Portnoy from the 80's would anniilate that lad.

Kess73

Mushy wrote: »

His drumming back then wasn't that great. It was very solid yes, but nothing standout amazing. Peart, Burr, McBrain, Portnoy from the 80's would anniilate that lad.

Clive Burr had a ridiculous amount of talent, who knows how much better he would have become had illness not struck.

Kess73

LordChessington wrote: »

Back in the 80s, Lars was the man. He wasn't the best drummer in thrash, but he came very close to it and anyone who complains about his drumming from back then doesn't know what they're talking about.

He was nowhere near close to being the best drummer in thrash metal circles, let alone metal circles as a whole.

He was a good drummer whose abilities got exaggerared directly in proportion to the band's increasing album sales. You see the same thing with most band's that break into the megasales bracket.

How many times did we see Slash get called the best guitarist in the world when GNR were at their peak? Same way Lars got called the best drummer, although Slash is a better guitarist than Lars is a drummer.


Just using the more mainstream side of Thrash back then, I would rate Charlie Benante, Dave Lombardo, Jurgen Reil, Paul Bostaph, Igor Cavalera, and even Nick Menza as being better drummers than Lars and certainly more innovative.

GLaDOS

Kess73 wrote: »

How many times did we see Slash get called the best guitarist in the world

He still gets called the best guitarist in the world sometimes, boggles the mind

Pyr0

Slash gets called the best guitarist in the world based on his unique image and the success of Guns and Roses, at a push I'd call him a pretty good rock guitarist, no where near the best guitarist in the world.

Mr. CooL ICE

Mushy wrote: »

His drumming back then wasn't that great. It was very solid yes, but nothing standout amazing. Peart, Burr, McBrain, Portnoy from the 80's would anniilate that lad.

Yes, but Peart, Burr, Portnoy and McBrain weren't thrash metal drummers.

Kess73 wrote:

He was nowhere near close to being the best drummer in thrash metal circles, let alone metal circles as a whole.

He was a good drummer whose abilities got exaggerared directly in proportion to the band's increasing album sales. You see the same thing with most band's that break into the megasales bracket.

As said in my post, I was referring to his drumming in the 80s. Newer and better drummers have come since but back then, the only thrash drummers I can think of who were better were Benante and Lombardo.

His other peers (Louie Clemente, Ray Hartmann) weren't a patch on him. Max Cavalera, Gene Hoglan and Vinnie Paul didn't really make an impact until the early 90s while Gar Samuelson and Chuck Behler didn't really get enough of a chance to shine

empirix

nedtheshed wrote: »

Emmmmmm.

yes we allknow what lombardo can do but i was looking at this from a more technical angle and the way ulrich was drumming on ajfa - really quite complex arrangement and quite brilliant, defintely his best work for metallica, coming from a drumming backround(no where near as talented!) i would find it a easier to copy lombardo(arrangement, not as fast!!) on a track than most of ajfa tracks

nyarlothothep

technique wise I'd give Slash a 7. Vai would be a 10, but the 8-10 bracket would be a case of very few being in there. Slash I thought was and is quite a good guitarist, technically fairly proficient and imaginative which is more than I can say for many of the incredibly well trained yet inspirationally devoid shredders. So would Lars be the drumming equivalent of Slash then? (annoying a question as it is).

Its good to see Lars getting some credit where its due. I think he's pretty good but I'm trying to get some comparisons with guitarists so that I can understand exactly how good. One thing I'll say is that he has a distinctive style which is hard to come by and imagination which is another rare quality and which probably explains the style. In a similar way I think Hammet gets slated quite a lot. He's not as good as Saatch from a technical standpoint but I prefer listening to his solos, the unforgiven solo is more expressive and dramatic than surfing with the alien for example.

brendansmith

nyarlothothep wrote: »

So would Lars be the drumming equivalent of Slash then? (annoying a question as it is).

.

Nah, Lars would be the drumming equiv to Hammet. Nothing spectacular but gets the job done.

Kess73

LordChessington wrote: »

As said in my post, I was referring to his drumming in the 80s. Newer and better drummers have come since but back then, the only thrash drummers I can think of who were better were Benante and Lombardo.

His other peers (Louie Clemente, Ray Hartmann) weren't a patch on him. Max Cavalera, Gene Hoglan and Vinnie Paul didn't really make an impact until the early 90s while Gar Samuelson and Chuck Behler didn't really get enough of a chance to shine

All the drummers I named are ones that I regard as superior to Lars in the 80's and all were drummers with thrash metal bands during the 80's . Igor Cavalera was being noticed for his drumming from 1987 onwards, and Lars could not touch Jurgen Reil or Paul Bostaph for technical ability in the 80's.

120_Minutes

sugarman wrote: »

listen to the likes of "Dyers Eve" and "Blackened", they're so fucking tight! I can imagine how long it probably took for him to get them down.

ages, as up to and including the black album, there were hundreds of drum "punch ins" as he wasnt able to play the songs from start to finish consistently to get a good take.

which sums up his ability pretty well in my book.

Motley Crue

empirix wrote: »

certainly no drummer came close on a metal album up to that time

Igor Cavalera?

I mean, lets be honest, Lars is OK but he isn't exactly a great drummer...he has admitted that himself in interviews in the past in jest...and I think, if I'm not much mistaken, that these arena bands have a "Spinal Tap" attitude with their drummers in the sense that either you have the talent or the mouth or you end up being shunted quite fast...and Ulrich has the mouth

I think GNR are on their, erm, is it 26th drummer at this point?:p

GrizzlyMan

Motley Crue wrote: »

Igor Cavalera?

I mean, lets be honest, Lars is OK but he isn't exactly a great drummer...he has admitted that himself in interviews in the past in jest...and I think, if I'm not much mistaken, that these arena bands have a "Spinal Tap" attitude with their drummers in the sense that either you have the talent or the mouth or you end up being shunted quite fast...and Ulrich has the mouth

I think GNR are on their, erm, is it 26th drummer at this point?:p

Igor CavaLera, I was just about to mention him! what a drummer & his early stuff way out ways lars on any album! I think the reason why AJFA was remembered for Lars drumming is because the main stream actually had heard a double bass peddle used!

The Frayed Ends

120_Minutes wrote: »

ages, as up to and including the black album, there were hundreds of drum "punch ins" as he wasnt able to play the songs from start to finish consistently to get a good take.

which sums up his ability pretty well in my book.

I suppose they edited the demos of the songs afterwards with the double bass too? :rolleyes:


I don't think Lars is the best drummer. The man himself says it.
But credit where its due he has some great ****ing work.And AJFA is just brilliant,

gerrytm

nyarlothothep wrote: »

technique wise I'd give Slash a 7. Vai would be a 10, but the 8-10 bracket would be a case of very few being in there. Slash I thought was and is quite a good guitarist, technically fairly proficient and imaginative which is more than I can say for many of the incredibly well trained yet inspirationally devoid shredders. So would Lars be the drumming equivalent of Slash then? (annoying a question as it is).

In a similar way I think Hammet gets slated quite a lot. He's not as good as Saatch from a technical standpoint but I prefer listening to his solos, the unforgiven solo is more expressive and dramatic than surfing with the alien for example.

Slash is a '70s throwback who digested Jimmy Page/Lizzy licks and spiced them up with a Michael Schenker influence. He's a good guitarist and played some tasty solos on mega-selling albums. His vibrato is nice to listen to, and that's what people want to hear in a guitarist: a cool sounding vibrato. This is the "feeling" you hear in Slash's work, his string bending and vibrato. "November rain" is a really nice solo and showcases Slash's touch.

Hammett's vibrato is piss poor by comparison and his bends are out a lot of the time.

Comparing Hammett with Satriani is ridiculous, especially if you cherry pick solos. There are myriad examples of Satriani's more expressive side and this is coming from someone who isn't a fan.

seachto7

Motley Crue wrote: »

Igor Cavalera?

I mean, lets be honest, Lars is OK but he isn't exactly a great drummer...he has admitted that himself in interviews in the past in jest...and I think, if I'm not much mistaken, that these arena bands have a "Spinal Tap" attitude with their drummers in the sense that either you have the talent or the mouth or you end up being shunted quite fast...and Ulrich has the mouth

I think GNR are on their, erm, is it 26th drummer at this point?:p

Igor Cavalera is a f**king machine! Unreal drummer. However, I wonder is it just his speed that dazzles me. I'm not a drummer, so couldn't really say. I don't really listen to guitar shredders at all anymore, as it's just "hey look at me" (not taking away from their talent though). I do think some of Lars drumming on AJFA is pretty good, though technically it may not be considered difficult for that genre of music?

scudzilla

IMO the drum sound on Justice sounds like he was hitting a fcukin biscuit tin.

Has anybody ever heard ...And Justice for Jason?? Basically somebody has added a full bass sound to the whole album, it's fcukin awesome, gives the whole thing a great new feel

120_Minutes

scudzilla wrote: »

IMO the drum sound on Justice sounds like he was hitting a fcukin biscuit tin.

Has anybody ever heard ...And Justice for Jason?? Basically somebody has added a full bass sound to the whole album, it's fcukin awesome, gives the whole thing a great new feel

that was some guy rerecording jasons parts and mixing them with the album.

whats better is taking the guitar hero raw tracks (ie jasons bass track) and placing it back into the original song so it can be heard.

I did it with blackened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Suqguox3dk