Is it unpatriotic to wear a poppy ?

Notorious

My name is URL wrote: »

I just think it's unfair to champion remembrance while at the same time ridiculing others for remembering the history of their nation

That's a fair point. Personally I know my countries history, and don't think people should forget it. But I also think that our history shouldn't come in the way of remembering the dead lost at war.

I know the whole poppy wearing day is a very British thing, but the whole origin of selling poppies was to raise money for ex-servicemen (in Canada I think) and to remember the lives lost. Thats the way I see it.

KimHawkins

are you a brit?

If not, why would you wear a poppy?????

mega man

the whole origin of the thing shouldnt conceal what it stands for.

Ruu_Old

KimHawkins wrote: »

are you a brit?

If not, why would you wear a poppy?????

You haven't read any of the thread, have you? Be honest now.

Notorious

mega man wrote: »

the whole origin of the thing shouldnt conceal what it stands for.

I may be wrong here, but is nationalism not concealing what it actually stands for?

mega man

Ruu wrote: »

You haven't read any of the thread, have you? Be honest now.

he has 5 posts. hes probably a troll- a british one at that

syklops

I love the way people keep saying they dont agree with war. I also love the way their not saying it in German, which they would be if so many people had not put their lives in jeopardy in WW1 and WW2, including 49000 Irishmen in WW1.

To not remember them and the approximate 20 million others who died during the conflict would be very disrespectful to their memory, in my opinion.

i'm sure there would be alot of people in ireland offended by the poppy.

Why would they?

ukgalwaymcguire

oh i love the irish when they start all this anti british stuff..
especially when its written/spoken/argued in english...

how does one say irish patriot in gaelic??? LMFAO






***""" if you can read this.. thank a teacher and SINCE ITS IN ENGLISH THANK A SOLDIER"""""""******

A Dub in Glasgo

I have to laugh at the 2 posts above

mega man

syklops wrote: »

I love the way people keep saying they dont agree with war. I also love the way their not saying it in German, which they would be if so many people had not put their lives in jeopardy in WW1 and WW2, including 49000 Irishmen in WW1.

To not remember them and the approximate 20 million others who died during the conflict would be very disrespectful to their memory, in my opinion.



Why would they?

i suppose the ideal way of honouring the dead of ww1 and ww2 is by wearing a poppy?

Reillyman

ukgalwaymcguire wrote: »

how does one say irish patriot in gaelic??? LMFAO

Tírghráthóir Gaelach smartass...

robby^5

syklops wrote: »

I love the way people keep saying they dont agree with war. I also love the way their not saying it in German, which they would be if so many people had not put their lives in jeopardy in WW1 and WW2, including 49000 Irishmen in WW1.

I'm not arguing with you here but I just want to point out that Poppy Day is not a day just to commererate the First and Second World Wars, but all the service men and women of the various commonwealth armed forces who have died in wars since 1918... so that would also include the Iraq War, Gulf War, Falklands etc.

arybvtcw0eolkf

robby^5 wrote: »

I'm not arguing with you here but I just want to point out that Poppy Day is not a day just to commererate the First and Second World Wars, but all the service men and women of the various commonwealth armed forces who have died in wars since 1918... so that would also include the Iraq War, Gulf War, Falklands etc.

And just to expand on that.

The 'poppy appeal' also helps serving and ex-service men and women of the British armed forces regardless of religion, race or creed.

Monies gained go towards helping those veterans with issue's ranging from health care (including mental health and rehab), social welfare, housing, skills development (helping members re-enter the community and employment environment). Its services also extend to the dependents of ex-service men & women.

To believe its souly to remember the dead of WWI & WWII is retarded.

thethedev

Cali Handsome Opium wrote: »

And just to expand on that.

The 'poppy appeal' also helps serving and ex-service men and women of the British armed forces regardless of religion, race or creed.

Monies gained go towards helping those veterans with issue's ranging from health care (including mental health and rehab), social welfare, housing, skills development (helping members re-enter the community and employment environment). Its services also extend to the dependents of ex-service men & women.

To believe its souly to remember the dead of WWI & WWII is retarded.

You clearly do know what your talking about. But isn't the 11th of July a national day for us to remember Irish soldiers from all wars?
I'm genuinely asking.
Either way to the best of my knowledge the British legion during the ceremony in St. Patrick's cathedral(I think) do make a mention of Irish soldiers who died in UN peacekeeping missions.

Tarzan007

Cali Handsome Opium wrote: »

For some people its a personal thing, but this...

Laid of ghosts of the past to rest for me, and I'm a regular at Croker.

I think that game and the reception, and acceptance, we gave to the English team and supporters was one of the proudest days in both a political and sporting sense for all Irish people, well thats my belief anyway.

.

Yeah, and beating England 43 to 13 made it even better

Gavin "shels"

mink_man wrote: »

yes..yes it is....

TheCandystripes wrote: »

why would an irish person wear one of those poppys?(altho having said that i cant understand why irish support british football teams but maby its just me)

mink_man don't you support Man Utd or something? Is it unpatriotic to wear an English clubs' jersey? Same principal.

Tarzan007

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The reason I wouldn't wear one is because some unionists/loyalists wear them in memory of UVF/UDA members.

If I was in England/Scotland/Wales I probably would wear one as I respect those who fought in WW2 but not on this island.

Very true, good point. As well as that Orange Lodge bands often turn up at ceremony's which are quite offensive if you are a Catholic.

mega man

Tarzan007 wrote: »

Very true, good point. As well as that Orange Lodge bands often turn up at ceremony's which are quite offensive if you are a Catholic.

Does that include Irish Protestants being offended by the Orange Lodge Bands?

Rebelheart

dan719 wrote: »

The amount of Irish people killled in WW1 is huge. Any Irish person who wishes to wear a poppy to commemorate these men is more than entitled to do so.

Yes, let's all commemorate, at best, idiocy and naïvety on an extraordinary scale.

artanevilla

Gavin shels wrote: »

mink_man don't you support Man Utd or something? Is it unpatriotic to wear an English clubs' jersey? Same principal.

I wouldn't think wearing an English clubs jersey would be the same as wearing a poppy. One represents a football team, who play a sport, the other commemorates the fallen of an army, who go to war.

I wouldn't wear a poppy myself, but I'd have no problem with people wearing one. Sure it's the kind of freedom we fought for in the first place.

badabinbadaboom

Ah for ****s sakes just wear a white one!
I think its been mentioned about 4 times in this thread now.
The white one is in memory of everyone who has ever died in a war. I know that includes the ****ing Nazis but thats the one I might wear if I decide to wear one at all.

Rebelheart

Cali Handsome Opium wrote: »

And just to expand on that.

The 'poppy appeal' also helps serving and ex-service men and women of the British armed forces regardless of religion, race or creed. To believe its souly to remember the dead of WWI & WWII is retarded.

Yes, wearing a British poppy commemorates all those who fought with British forces in history. It is organised by the Royal British Legion (clue in the name). So, wear a poppy and you are commemorating the Black and Tans, the Parachute Regiment, the "heroes" who ran the British Concentration Camps in South Africa where tens of thousands of women and children perished in the twentieth century, the euphemistically named "enclosed villages" in Kenya in the 1950s where hundreds of thousands of Kenyans were imprisoned without trial ... and other such "heroes".

slipss

Cali Handsome Opium wrote: »

Personally I think its ok to wear one.

I buy one every year, but thats just me - I could care less what other people think.

But ya know, there are some extremely narrow minded people in this country who refuse to let go of the past - fvck you I say, your yesterdays man.

Ehhh, isn't buying a poppy every year refusing to let go of the past?......Wasn't that the original meaning of them? That's silly that is, silly person.

Gavin "shels"

mega man wrote: »

its not unpatriotic for a British person to wear the poppy.
it is unpatriotic for an Irish person to wear the poppy as you are supporting a foreign force.

Is it unpatriotic to support a British football team!?

artanevilla wrote: »

I wouldn't think wearing an English clubs jersey would be the same as wearing a poppy. One represents a football team, who play a sport, the other commemorates the fallen of an army, who go to war.

Somewhat same principal thought.

Rebelheart

minidazzler wrote: »

They weren't a Foreign Force the year the Armistice was signed.

Indeed the British crown forces of occupation were a foreign force in this country in 1918 and 1818 and 1718 and 1618.

dan719

Rebelheart wrote: »

Indeed the British crown forces of occupation were a foreign force in this country in 1918 and 1818 and 1718 and 1618.

You know what, we know. You have listed the things that the British Army have done that are undefendable. But you don't acknowledge that every army has committed acts of such outrage. The OP asked whether or not it could be seen as unpatriotic to wear a poppy. Although the answer varies with every poster, it is pretty obvious that wearing a poppy to commemorate the Irish dead from WW1 is not the same thing as commemorating the black and tans. Symbols only have the meaning that we assign to them, after all.

mega man

Gavin shels wrote: »

Is it unpatriotic to support a British football team!?


Somewhat same principal thought.

why dont you set up a new thread and find out

T-Square

My name is URL wrote: »

I wouldn't buy or wear one, even if it was solely an Irish thing

I refuse to perpetuate violence, or romanticize war for the sake of posterity

Wearing a poppy does not perpetuate violence or romanticise war.

It says, "Thank you old soldiers, thanks for kicking Hitler's ass and saving us from the gas chambers, we appreciate your sacrifice and bravery."

mega man

dan719 wrote: »

You know what, we know. You have listed the things that the British Army have done that are undefendable. But you don't acknowledge that every army has committed acts of such outrage. The OP asked whether or not it could be seen as unpatriotic to wear a poppy. Although the answer varies with every poster, it is pretty obvious that wearing a poppy to commemorate the Irish dead from WW1 is not the same thing as commemorating the black and tans. Symbols only have the meaning that we assign to them, after all.

what about gerry mccabe though?

dan719

mega man wrote: »

what about gerry mccabe though?

What do you mean? Not being sarcastic, I don't know what you want to know.

artanevilla

mega man wrote: »

what about gerry mccabe though?

What about Gerry McCabe?

Rebelheart

Notorious wrote: »

I should probably add that I've never worn a poppy. If somebody shoved one in my face while I was walking about town then I'd probably buy one. Anyway if they died at war then yes, they are remembered by me.

So, if you are going to "remember" all those who died fighting to assert the control of the British Empire over indigenous peoples, are you going to "remember" those who died trying to assert Nazi control over Europe? If not, what is the moral difference?

PomBear

The funny thing is, many people who say they'd be all for people wearing poppys or not bothered probably think people that wear Easter lillys are IRA crazies

dan719

Rebelheart wrote: »

So, if you are going to "remember" all those who died fighting to assert the control of the British Empire over indigenous peoples, are you going to "remember" those who died trying to assert Nazi control over Europe? If not, what is the moral difference?

If I had a reason such as a member of my family fighting in the German forces, yes I would. Ordinary men don't go to war for ideological reasons, they usually find themselves there as a result of the whims of a political elite. Do you really believe the poor bastards in south Armagh were there having a ball of a time, or that the German soldiers at Stalingrad were having the craic?

furtzy

I certainly won't be wearing anything to honour any members dead or alive of the same armed force who pointed their guns at me on my way to school in West Belfast.

Rebelheart

dan719 wrote: »

You have listed the things that the British Army have done that are undefendable. But you don't acknowledge that every army has committed acts of such outrage.

Not while occupying my country.

dan719 wrote: »

The OP asked whether or not it could be seen as unpatriotic to wear a poppy. Although the answer varies with every poster, it is pretty obvious that wearing a poppy to commemorate the Irish dead from WW1 is not the same thing as commemorating the black and tans. Symbols only have the meaning that we assign to them, after all.

It would undoubtedly be patriotic if you were British and agreed with the deeds of the British forces across the planet as they robbed indigenous resources and subjugated the native populations in the service of creating a richer and more dominant British state. Generally, if you agree that the British state and its forces have a moral right to rule and occupy places beyond Britain then you probably would be wearing a British poppy, waving the Union Jack and the rest.

If you are not British and do not agree with those deeds it is clearly insulting to wear a British poppy.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

mega man wrote: »

he has 5 posts. hes probably a troll- a british one at that

Are british trolls differant to any other trolls? What about black trolls? Are they differant too? :eek:

dan719

Rebelheart wrote: »

Not while occupying my country.



It would undoubtedly be patriotic if you were British and agreed with the deeds of the British forces across the planet as they robbed indigenous resources and subjugated the native populations in the service of creating a richer and more dominant British state. Generally, if you agree that the British state and its forces have a moral right to rule and occupy places beyond Britain then you probably would be wearing a British poppy, waving the Union Jack and the rest.

If you are not British and do not agree with those deeds it is clearly insulting to wear a British poppy.

Since when is it YOUR country. In fact the North is definately not your country, it is another country, in which the majority wishes to have a union with Britain.

You refer to events of hundreds of years ago, when most agree the poppy generally commemorates those from WW1 onwards. But who am I to point out that your anger is based solely on your hatred of 'dem bastard brits'.

drkpower

Rebelheart wrote: »

So, if you are going to "remember" all those who died fighting to assert the control of the British Empire over indigenous peoples, are you going to "remember" those who died trying to assert Nazi control over Europe? If not, what is the moral difference?

Some wear it to remember just British soldiers. Some wear it to remember just Irish soldiers. Some wear it as a remembrance to all of those who have died in war anywhere ever including, one presumes the ordinary German soldiers who died during both wars. Remembance and symblols are very personal thing.

While I dont wear one myself, partly become it is overly politicised (by people like yourself) I would be slow to criticise someone who does without knowing the reason why they wear it.

Rebelheart

dan719 wrote: »

If I had a reason such as a member of my family fighting in the German forces, yes I would.

If I bother to commemorate anybody, it will only be somebody who has done something which I find honourable or noble. It is absurd to honour somebody just because they are related to me or Irish. In both cases the people involved could have done odious deeds and, to my mind, it would be ridiculous to honour them because of some connection to me.

Reillyman

dan719 wrote: »

Since when is it YOUR country. In fact the North is definately not your country, it is another country, in which the majority wishes to have a union with Britain.

Can open....Worms everywhere....

Rebelheart

dan719 wrote: »

Do you really believe the poor bastards in south Armagh were there having a ball of a time, or that the German soldiers at Stalingrad were having the craic?

People join armies expecting to kill people. That is, crudely, what the primary function of armies is. Those who joined the British Army, an army which has a history of occupying other peoples' countries for centuries, knew they would be sent to warzones when they made the choice to join. They get no sympathy from me - none at all. They are responsible adults making what I believe to be a deeply irresponsible and selfish decision by joining an army with the British Army's record of inhumanity towards communities across the world.

furtzy

dan719 wrote: »

You refer to events of hundreds of years ago, when most agree the poppy generally commemorates those from WW1 onwards. But who am I to point out that your anger is based solely on your hatred of 'dem bastard brits'.

They only left India in 1947 hardly hundreds of years ago....and they left a nice mess there namely Pakistan the same mess they leave behind after all their occupations

drkpower

Rebelheart wrote: »

People join armies expecting to kill people.

What about conscripts?

artanevilla

Rebelheart wrote: »

People join armies expecting to kill people. That is, crudely, what the primary function of armies is.

I would say the vast majority of people who join the Irish Defence Forces certainly would NOT expect to kill anyone.

Rebelheart

drkpower wrote: »

Some wear it to remember just British soldiers. Some wear it to remember just Irish soldiers. Some wear it as a remembrance to all of those who have died in war anywhere ever including, one presumes the ordinary German soldiers who died during both wars. Remembance and symblols are very personal thing.

While I dont wear one myself, partly become it is overly politicised (by people like yourself) I would be slow to criticise someone who does without knowing the reason why they wear it.

The British poppy is promoted by one of the most nationalistically-minded British organisations around, the Royal British Legion. If people wish to commemorate Irish people who die in war, the Irish state has its own commemorations. Why any Irish person would want to join in the nationalist myths of a foreign country by wearing a British poppy is beyond me.

dan719

Rebelheart wrote: »

People join armies expecting to kill people. That is, crudely, what the primary function of armies is. Those who joined the British Army, an army which has a history of occupying other peoples' countries for centuries, knew they would be sent to warzones when they made the choice to join. They get no sympathy from me - none at all. They are responsible adults making what I believe to be a deeply irresponsible and selfish decision by joining an army with the British Army's record of inhumanity towards communities across the world.

Do you commemorate those who joined the IRA? Do you commemorate those people who made the choice to kill or maim innocent people? Because you know the IRA (and all it's offshoots) have a pretty good record of inhumanity themselves.

And people didn't join the BA for the craic. In times of poverty, people are forced into desperate decisions. There is a reason only two US senators have children who ever saw Iraq. There is a reason you won't see children of TD's on ****ty peacekeeping missions in the Lebanon. You make Irish men fighting for the BA seem like Queen loving murdering bastards. This ignores the reality that joining the BA was presented as a route to home rule, by Nationalist leaders. And that when men have families, ideologies are quickly forgotten and replaced by pragmatism.

Rebelheart

dan719 wrote: »

Since when is it YOUR country. In fact the North is definately not your country, it is another country, in which the majority wishes to have a union with Britain.

You refer to events of hundreds of years ago, when most agree the poppy generally commemorates those from WW1 onwards.

That post was not your finest moment, was it. Wrong on every single point. Quelle surprise.

dan719

Rebelheart wrote: »

That post was not your finest moment, was it. Wrong on every single point. Quelle surprise.

Is the north part of the republic now? Did I miss a defining political moment. Hold on, whilst I check the beeb. Nope, still there. And when did the north have a nationalist majority? Nope, seems to still be mainly unionist too. So if you could point out my mistakes I would be most grateful.

drkpower

Rebelheart wrote: »

The British poppy is promoted by one of the most nationalistically-minded British organisations around, the Royal British Legion.

Perhaps.

But you appear to be arguing that we should not commemorate/remember any British war dead (or perhaps any soldiers at all - or maybe just ones you consider dishonarable!).

In which case, the poppy is neither here nor there. So why use it disingenuosly?