Red C Poll.. 25th October 2009

Het-Field

Sunday Business Post RedC Poll:

FF 25 +1,
FG 35,
LAB 19 +1,
GRN 3 -1,
SF 9+1,
IND 9-2.

An irrelevant poll.

Any increases/decreases are within the margin of error.

FG continue to hold he 10 Point lead over FF. Thats the crucial stat. Even after a relatively good month for FF, with the passage of Lisbon, O Donoghue falling on his sword, and the passage of the first stage of NAMA, they are still at a huge disdvatage, as it appears that their support at the local/european elections is where they are stuck.

The Greens are now a margin of error, as slipping into the catagory of 3, suggests a possibility that nobody mentioned the Greens as their preferred voting option.

diverdriver

The only remarkable thing about that poll is that some people would still vote Fianna Fail. As for the Greens. They are effectively a Zombie party. They're finished. The people who used to vote for them will punish them severely and I for one am glad. I was delighted when the entered government with Fianna Fail as I hate both parties. But when the amateur politicians that they are, joined FF. It was like throwing rabbits into a shark tank. They will join the PDS as another failed experiment.

Macha

diverdriver wrote: »

But when the amateur politicians that they are, joined FF. It was like throwing rabbits into a shark tank. They will join the PDS as another failed experiment.

This is just more of the same childish attitude towards coalition governments.

At some point you have to move from being a lobby group to being a political party and when you do, you take what comes with it, including compromise. For the Greens who didn't want to be in power, well that's what Greenpeace is for.

evercloserunion

Het-Field wrote: »

Sunday Business Post RedC Poll:

FF 25 +1,
FG 35,
LAB 19 +1,
GRN 3 -1,
SF 9+1,
IND 9-2.

An irrelevant poll.

Any increases/decreases are within the margin of error.

FG continue to hold he 10 Point lead over FF. Thats the crucial stat. Even after a relatively good month for FF, with the passage of Lisbon, O Donoghue falling on his sword, and the passage of the first stage of NAMA, they are still at a huge disdvatage, as it appears that their support at the local/european elections is where they are stuck.

The Greens are now a margin of error, as slipping into the catagory of 3, suggests a possibility that nobody mentioned the Greens as their preferred voting option.

I don't see how the JOD affair was good for FF. Another corrupt FFer held up to the media spotlight. But apart from that, I agree that FF have had a good month. NAMA is rapidly gaining support and good publicity. The passage of Lisbon is of course a plus as well. You might even say that the JOD scandal was a negative development which offset their gains from other affairs. However, I don't think that's likely; Labour were responsible for taking JOD out and yet didn't gain any notable bounce from it so IMO the likelihood is that people just didn't care all that much about JOD.

I'm surprised the Greens didn't get a bounce from the PfG. I find it unlikely that the Greens are actually polling at zero; remember that the margin or error also works the other way. This poll could only be showing half their true support (though that is also unlikely).

Over on P.ie the FGers are calling this a victory because they say they expected their support to drop. I wouldn't be so positive. If 35 is FG's peak that is bad news for FG. FF often had 40 or more in opinion polls when times were better. If the worst is over for FF, that means the best is over for FG and they should be worried that even at the best of times they cannot emulate FF's highs.

Note also that a FF-Labour coalition would produce a healthy majority and would probably be more stable than a FG-Lab coalition.

diverdriver

This is just more of the same childish attitude towards coalition governments

Sorry????? I've no problem with coalition governments. They can work quite well by reducing excessive ideological extravagance and are often more representative of the wishes of the voter.

But when it comes to Fianna Fail all bets are off. I think you'll find that most green voters never intended a coalition with FF. FF are completely ideology free, it's all about power with them. They are the political prostitutes. They'll sleep with anyone who offers them a chance to stay on the gravy train.

As for the greens, they may think they're a political party. But they come across as shambling amateurs in a political sense. They are in effect a lobby group of idealists and fantasists. The majority of their voters would be anti FF. They've been betrayed. It's game over for them.

dlofnep

Het-Field wrote: »

Even after a relatively good month for FF

Could have fooled me.

Seth Brundle

WTF?
Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them yet over the last year or so consistently these polls are showing approx 25% electorate support. Where are these muppets from?
Do people feel the need to lie about supporting them?
I honestly don't understand it!

evercloserunion

kbannon wrote: »

WTF?
Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them yet over the last year or so consistently these polls are showing approx 25% electorate support. Where are these muppets from?
Do people feel the need to lie about supporting them?
I honestly don't understand it!

It's just like after Lisbon II, all the No side people saying it must have been fraud because everyone they knew was voting No. People are more likely to be vocal about hating FF than about not really minding them I guess.

A FF comeback is underway I think.

sliabhluachra

Could some please tell me 3 things that the Green party have done to be so hated??? I am not a member of them, but I just cant understand why someone would actually hate a bunch of do gooders???

Lets just remember three things:
Trevor Sergeant was physically and verbally assaulted in a DCC meeting by other councillors when he showed a cheque that a developer had sent him and asked who else had got one. Fair play to him for standing up against those corrupt animals who took money and enabled massive rezoning of lands everywhere for residential development. FACT

John Gormley when he confronted Michael Mcdowell in Ranelagh (2007) stated the banks should pay more tax and be regualted more . . . FACT

Local Green Councillors were constantly out voted by fianna Fail and Fine gael councillors in rezoing decisions with development plans etc that enabled ridicolous amounts housing to be built against professional planning advice outside every village and town in the country causing to property bubble. FACT!!

Anyone else remember last summer when Mayo and Monaghan elected members were shouting and roaring because John Gormley ordered two directives (the 1st time a minister of the environment used his powers) to the councillors in Mayo and Monaghan to alter their development plans so that there wouldn't be zoning for residential development that would cater for a population til 2073 at optimistic levels. Hmmm that was 2008 and McGuinness and a few more apes in both more councils were going mad saying they will go all the way to europe and calling gormley a latte drinking blah blah blah . . Hmm than all of sudden the last year aka 09/10 happened and they suddenly went quiet. hmm interesting . . . .fools (And Im from Kerry so don't go saying I dont understand rural Ireland)

The reason we are in the mess we are in is down to local councillors (Most fine gael and fianna fail) meddling in planning over zoning land, thus fueling the property bubble and Bang!!!

If you hate the greens for some other reason grand, but hindsight is great it is a pity no one listened to their foresight!!!

I dream of an Ireland that one day votes in people to the Dail on a basis that isn't because of the events during the foundation of the state. I do get a bit embarrassed when I see Sinn Fein get more votes than the Greens in that poll.

Hmmm which do you prefer - a party who wants to save the environment or one who doesn't condemn the murder of Gardai - servants of the state.

Would we ever see a Labour/ Green Coalition?

Kev_ps3

diverdriver wrote: »

The only remarkable thing about that poll is that some people would still vote Fianna Fail. As for the Greens. They are effectively a Zombie party. They're finished. The people who used to vote for them will punish them severely and I for one am glad. I was delighted when the entered government with Fianna Fail as I hate both parties. But when the amateur politicians that they are, joined FF. It was like throwing rabbits into a shark tank. They will join the PDS as another failed experiment.

But its not just 'some' people, its 25% - 1 in 4 voters still support FF! Thats a massive number considering they are about as popular as the NAZI party today in the media.

dresden8

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

But its not just 'some' people, its 25% - 1 in 4 voters still support FF! Thats a massive number considering they are about as popular as the NAZI party today in the media.

Hardly, Tubridy gave both Cowen and Bertie exceptionally easy rides.

The Late Late gave FF a huge boost before the last election and propelled Harris into the Seanad.

RTE love to buy into the "NAMA is the only game in town" thing all too readily.

Pure FF propaganda station.

Het-Field

taconnol wrote: »

This is just more of the same childish attitude towards coalition governments.

At some point you have to move from being a lobby group to being a political party and when you do, you take what comes with it, including compromise. For the Greens who didn't want to be in power, well that's what Greenpeace is for.

It has gone far beyond compromise.

It is outright rejection of collective cabinet responsibility. The holier than thou attitude is wearing thin, and the public have copped on.

If bans on foxhunting, and further public expenditure on teachers is enough to placate the party, then it says much about any principles that the Green Party currently have. It was enough to gain their support on the biggest bank bail out of all time, and the Greens have fallen for it lock stock and barrel.

Attempts to claim credit for bans on incandescent lightbulbs, and cycle to work scheme, which are not pro business in any way, are small "achievements", which will fall on deaf ears, when compared with the ****e that the Greens have been party to. Under their watch they have supported every single move that FF have sought to put through. They were deservedly put through the ringer at the locals, and after the next GE, they will return to being a fringe group.

The PDs took 18 Years to be corrupted by FF, the Greens took 18 Months.

irish_bob

kbannon wrote: »

WTF?
Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them yet over the last year or so consistently these polls are showing approx 25% electorate support. Where are these muppets from?
Do people feel the need to lie about supporting them?
I honestly don't understand it!

you have to remember that in rural ireland , the majority of people vote based on one criteria , who their parents , grandparents and so forth voted for , that wont change over night

Het-Field

sliabhluachra wrote: »

Could some please tell me 3 things that the Green party have done to be so hated??? I am not a member of them, but I just cant understand why someone would actually hate a bunch of do gooders???

Lets just remember three things:
Trevor Sergeant was physically and verbally assaulted in a DCC meeting by other councillors when he showed a cheque that a developer had sent him and asked who else had got one. Fair play to him for standing up against those corrupt animals who took money and enabled massive rezoning of lands everywhere for residential development. FACT

John Gormley when he confronted Michael Mcdowell in Ranelagh (2007) stated the banks should pay more tax and be regualted more . . . FACT

Local Green Councillors were constantly out voted by fianna Fail and Fine gael councillors in rezoing decisions with development plans etc that enabled ridicolous amounts housing to be built against professional planning advice outside every village and town in the country causing to property bubble. FACT!!

Anyone else remember last summer when Mayo and Monaghan elected members were shouting and roaring because John Gormley ordered two directives (the 1st time a minister of the environment used his powers) to the councillors in Mayo and Monaghan to alter their development plans so that there wouldn't be zoning for residential development that would cater for a population til 2073 at optimistic levels. Hmmm that was 2008 and McGuinness and a few more apes in both more councils were going mad saying they will go all the way to europe and calling gormley a latte drinking blah blah blah . . Hmm than all of sudden the last year aka 09/10 happened and they suddenly went quiet. hmm interesting . . . .fools (And Im from Kerry so don't go saying I dont understand rural Ireland)

The reason we are in the mess we are in is down to local councillors (Most fine gael and fianna fail) meddling in planning over zoning land, thus fueling the property bubble and Bang!!!

If you hate the greens for some other reason grand, but hindsight is great it is a pity no one listened to their foresight!!!

I dream of an Ireland that one day votes in people to the Dail on a basis that isn't because of the events during the foundation of the state. I do get a bit embarrassed when I see Sinn Fein get more votes than the Greens in that poll.

Hmmm which do you prefer - a party who wants to save the environment or one who doesn't condemn the murder of Gardai - servants of the state.

Would we ever see a Labour/ Green Coalition?

John Gormley is an inferior politician. He built his 2007 campaign on high standards in government. He is now propping up the lowest of the low. He also backed Bertie, until the PDs began making noises in March 2008. He has propped up NAMA, Anglo's nationalisation, 3 useless budgets, and have had no compunction in keeping quiet on every issue that FF bring forward. The convention was a complete smokescreen, and the Green's grass roots have endorsed the incompetence of the past. That was incompetence that they were not party of. But now they are, as they have become whores for power

Most people I speak to lament the demise of McDowel to Gormley. Look at his legislative record. It doesnt add up to McDowells. Look at both Criminal Justice Acts.

The Greens now endorse low standards, they endorse gombeenomics, and they endorse an incompetent cabinet. The members also do. Did they seek to have Donoghue removed ? Were they the first to whistleblow on Bertie ? No, they sat idley by, and let Harney and Fiona O Malley do it first.

So get off your high horse. The Greens are now party to governmental decisions, and are doing nothing to stop incompetence. The "environmental agenda" wont save them from the electorate.

Bye Bye Greens, I wont miss you.

Eutow

irish_bob wrote: »

you have to remember that in rural ireland , the majority of people vote based on one criteria , who their parents , grandparents and so forth voted for , that wont change over night

Idiots like these can't think for themselves. Anybody on here, if you vote purely on who your father/mother/grandparents voted for, please explain yourselves, because I would like to know why you do this, and so would other people.

Eutow

kbannon wrote: »

WTF?
Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them yet over the last year or so consistently these polls are showing approx 25% electorate support. Where are these muppets from?
Do people feel the need to lie about supporting them?
I honestly don't understand it!

This frustrates me also. It seems the same idiots will vote for FF, no matter how badly they screw the country.

Maybe if these FF voters were to vote for somebody else, their father would not leave the family farm to them in the family will.

evercloserunion

Eutow wrote: »

This frustrates me also. It seems the same idiots will vote for FF, no matter how badly they screw the country.

Maybe if these FF voters were to vote for somebody else, their father would not leave the family farm to them in the family will.

If only we had some kind of secret ballot...

Powerhouse

Het-Field wrote: »

Sunday Business Post RedC Poll:

FF 25 +1,
FG 35,
LAB 19 +1,
GRN 3 -1,
SF 9+1,
IND 9-2.

An irrelevant poll.

Any increases/decreases are within the margin of error.

FG continue to hold he 10 Point lead over FF. Thats the crucial stat. Even after a relatively good month for FF, with the passage of Lisbon, O Donoghue falling on his sword, and the passage of the first stage of NAMA, they are still at a huge disdvatage, as it appears that their support at the local/european elections is where they are stuck.

The Greens are now a margin of error, as slipping into the catagory of 3, suggests a possibility that nobody mentioned the Greens as their preferred voting option.

I wouldn't be so sure about FG being is such a great position. They have a storm at their backs at the moment and when the margin of error is considered they are not much ahead of where they finished the last election. As things stand now FG on a good day might get only 60 seats. That would be enough to get them into government but it is fair to assume that this will be as good as it gets for them and an election after a full-term government might leave them back in the 26%-27% region.

The respective positions of Labour and FF could be far more significant in determining the identity of the next government than FG vis-á-vis FF because FG seem to be unable to move into FF's 40%+ territory even when FF visits FG's traditional mid 20% territory.

Powerhouse

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

But its not just 'some' people, its 25% - 1 in 4 voters still support FF! Thats a massive number considering they are about as popular as the NAZI party today in the media.

This falls into the trap of assuming that the national media is representative of the general population. It is far from it.

Powerhouse

kbannon wrote: »

WTF?
Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them yet over the last year or so consistently these polls are showing approx 25% electorate support. Where are these muppets from?
Do people feel the need to lie about supporting them?
I honestly don't understand it!

Again you are assuming that your social/work circle is representative of a cross-section of society. This is rarely the case.

And as for lying about supporting FF - opinion poll evidence over the years tend to suggest that FG rather than FF support is understated.

What I don't understand is how you are so baffled by how someone else could have a different view of the world to you!

Powerhouse

Eutow wrote: »

Th

Maybe if these FF voters were to vote for somebody else, their father would not leave the family farm to them in the family will.

This could be it. As someone else has implied it might be time to consider secret ballot elections and remove this particular pressure.

Eutow

Powerhouse wrote: »

This could be it. As someone else has implied it might be time to consider secret ballot elections and remove this particular pressure.

Don't we have this already?

Dob74

kbannon wrote: »

WTF?
Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them yet over the last year or so consistently these polls are showing approx 25% electorate support. Where are these muppets from?
Do people feel the need to lie about supporting them?
I honestly don't understand it!

Most people hate FF. But ask them about there local TD and it will be a different story.
Individual candidates will gain support because of there work in the local area.
No one is voting for FF policy just there local man.

RCIRL

Why is their a poll? Unless their is an up and coming election whats the point?

Anyway who takes part in these polls? I've never once been asked or seen one of these polls to take part in.

FF shouldn't even be on that list they should all be eradicated from anything to do with Ireland and cast off to the EU.


Red C Poll= Red Corruption Poll, the higher you are polled the more corrupt you are.

nesf

Ok I've handed out multiple infractions on this thread already and I was being on the lenient side of things.


Bear these simple facts in mind when posting on this forum:

a) Just because you fundamentally disagree with some group's politics it doesn't make it ok to call them idiots. Ever.

b) Just because a poll doesn't say what you think it is doesn't mean it is corrupt, rigged or unrepresentative. Claiming any of these without providing evidence to support your point will earn you infractions first and bans later. This is not the Ranting & Raving forum, you are expected to actually back up points and not contribute crap into threads.

c) Just because everyone you know is telling you X doesn't mean ****. Your mates are not a representative sample of this country and if it surprises you that polls don't match your mate's opinions then I really don't know what to say to you.


Seriously guys. I shouldn't be having to tell people this stuff.

nesf

irish_bob wrote: »

you have to remember that in rural ireland , the majority of people vote based on one criteria , who their parents , grandparents and so forth voted for , that wont change over night

You have to remember in rural Ireland there are two parties FF and FG and Labour barely exist in many constituencies. You can't expect urban voting patterns where the people are actually presented with a broad choice to apply to areas where the pool of potentials is narrow and essentially divided into two groups. When you have a 2 party divide in a constituency you'll never see the kind of collapse in vote in one side that you'd see in a 3 or 4 party constituency. If you want to get angry at someone blame major parties like Labour for not bothering to have operations worthy of the name in these areas.

Chorcai

sliabhluachra wrote: »

Could some please tell me 3 things that the Green party have done to be so hated??? I am not a member of them, but I just cant understand why someone would actually hate a bunch of do gooders???

Lets just remember three things:
Trevor Sergeant was physically and verbally assaulted in a DCC meeting by other councillors when he showed a cheque that a developer had sent him and asked who else had got one. Fair play to him for standing up against those corrupt animals who took money and enabled massive rezoning of lands everywhere for residential development. FACT

John Gormley when he confronted Michael Mcdowell in Ranelagh (2007) stated the banks should pay more tax and be regualted more . . . FACT

Local Green Councillors were constantly out voted by fianna Fail and Fine gael councillors in rezoing decisions with development plans etc that enabled ridicolous amounts housing to be built against professional planning advice outside every village and town in the country causing to property bubble. FACT!!

Anyone else remember last summer when Mayo and Monaghan elected members were shouting and roaring because John Gormley ordered two directives (the 1st time a minister of the environment used his powers) to the councillors in Mayo and Monaghan to alter their development plans so that there wouldn't be zoning for residential development that would cater for a population til 2073 at optimistic levels. Hmmm that was 2008 and McGuinness and a few more apes in both more councils were going mad saying they will go all the way to europe and calling gormley a latte drinking blah blah blah . . Hmm than all of sudden the last year aka 09/10 happened and they suddenly went quiet. hmm interesting . . . .fools (And Im from Kerry so don't go saying I dont understand rural Ireland)

The reason we are in the mess we are in is down to local councillors (Most fine gael and fianna fail) meddling in planning over zoning land, thus fueling the property bubble and Bang!!!

If you hate the greens for some other reason grand, but hindsight is great it is a pity no one listened to their foresight!!!

I dream of an Ireland that one day votes in people to the Dail on a basis that isn't because of the events during the foundation of the state. I do get a bit embarrassed when I see Sinn Fein get more votes than the Greens in that poll.

Hmmm which do you prefer - a party who wants to save the environment or one who doesn't condemn the murder of Gardai - servants of the state.

Would we ever see a Labour/ Green Coalition?

Car tax, VRT, carbon tax, new car sales came to a full stop, now them greens should get back on their bikes out the Dail gates.

ArmaniJeanss

Chorcai wrote: »

Car tax, VRT, carbon tax, new car sales came to a full stop, now them greens should get back on their bikes out the Dail gates.

Is 'new car sales coming to a full stop' actually a bad thing for our economy?

I'd have thought that reducing €25,000+ purchases where a huge % of the profit goes outside the country would be a positive.

williamb

RCIRL wrote: »

Why is their a poll? Unless their is an up and coming election whats the point?

Anyway who takes part in these polls? I've never once been asked or seen one of these polls to take part in.
.

I was surveilled for this poll, on a phone call on Tuesday evening.

RCIRL

nesf wrote: »

Ok I've handed out multiple infractions on this thread already and I was being on the lenient side of things.


Bear these simple facts in mind when posting on this forum:

a) Just because you fundamentally disagree with some group's politics it doesn't make it ok to call them idiots. Ever.

b) Just because a poll doesn't say what you think it is doesn't mean it is corrupt, rigged or unrepresentative. Claiming any of these without providing evidence to support your point will earn you infractions first and bans later. This is not the Ranting & Raving forum, you are expected to actually back up points and not contribute crap into threads.

c) Just because everyone you know is telling you X doesn't mean ****. Your mates are not a representative sample of this country and if it surprises you that polls don't match your mate's opinions then I really don't know what to say to you.


Seriously guys. I shouldn't be having to tell people this stuff.

The Red C is a poll of corruption. It does not reflect the views of Irish people correctly. It targets only a certain type of Irish person and by doing so its giving the wrong impression. Unfortunately Irish people are followers and you have to ask yourself, why is this poll being taken when their is no up and coming election?

You want evidence for my point? I have never been asked to take part nor have I seen any place for me to take part in these polls, also I cant think of anyone else I know who took part in these polls, I've asked them all before.

Are you going to ban me now?

evercloserunion

RCIRL wrote: »

The Red C is a poll of corruption. It does not reflect the views of Irish people correctly. It targets only a certain type of Irish person and by doing so its giving the wrong impression. Unfortunately Irish people are followers and you have to ask yourself, why is this poll being taken when their is no up and coming election?

You want evidence for my point? I have never been asked to take part nor have I seen any place for me to take part in these polls, also I cant think of anyone else I know who took part in these polls, I've asked them all before.

Are you going to ban me now?

Most of these polls use a sample size of 1000 In a nation of about 4 million people. So the odds of you being interviewed for one is about 1 in 4000.