Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Red C Poll.. 25th October 2009
Options
Comments
-
The Red C is a poll of corruption. It does not reflect the views of Irish people correctly. It targets only a certain type of Irish person and by doing so its giving the wrong impression. Unfortunately Irish people are followers and you have to ask yourself, why is this poll being taken when their is no up and coming election?
You want evidence for my point? I have never been asked to take part nor have I seen any place for me to take part in these polls, also I cant think of anyone else I know who took part in these polls, I've asked them all before.
Are you going to ban me now?
Permanently banned for abuse given by PM.0 -
-
I'm not making that assumption but I have not met one person in the last year who admitted that they would support FF - everyone was quite critical of them and pissed off with the way that the country is being 'governed'.Powerhouse wrote: »Again you are assuming that your social/work circle is representative of a cross-section of society. This is rarely the case.
And as for lying about supporting FF - opinion poll evidence over the years tend to suggest that FG rather than FF support is understated.
What I don't understand is how you are so baffled by how someone else could have a different view of the world to you!
I'm not assuming that people I speak to is an representation of society but that does not mean that I cannot be surprised!0 -
Ever hear of the "Shy Tories"?Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them yet over the last year or so consistently these polls are showing approx 25% electorate support. Where are these muppets from?
Wrong. Assuming the total poll was 1,000, then about 30 people opted for the Green Party. Now, given that for a poll of 1,000 the margin of error is about 3% it might mean the real result is possibly about 0%. However, there are at least 30 people (the 30 people opted for the Green Party in the poll), so it is never zero people.The Greens are now a margin of error, as slipping into the catagory of 3, suggests a possibility that nobody mentioned the Greens as their preferred voting option.0 -
The mistake that I think you are making is the time you ask them.I'm not making that assumption but I have not met one person in the last year who admitted that they would support FF - everyone was quite critical of them and pissed off with the way that the country is being 'governed'.
So in the middle of a conversation about bankers/ NAMA/ Corruption/ Golden Circles/Tax Rises/ Health Service/ Education Cutbacks/JODs expenses etc someone pops out the question 'Who will you vote for in the next GE?', well yeah no-one is going to admit they will vote FF. Hell at that moment in time everyone is so angry that they probably wouldn't vote FF if a ballot paper and a pen was handed to them.
Try it more casually next time, don't ask the question in the middle of the debate, ask it before the debate has even started. So say the person you are talking to is from Dun Laoghaire throw in a comment like that 'that Barry Andrews seem to be a sensible enough guy, not caught up in any of the bad stuff, will you be voting for him again?'0 -
Advertisement
-
All their good credibility disappeared when they went into government with FF the Party with the most corrupt politicions in the History of the State, especially when there was an alternative of FG/LB/GR.sliabhluachra wrote: »Could some please tell me 3 things that the Green party have done to be so hated??? I am not a member of them, but I just cant understand why someone would actually hate a bunch of do gooders???
Lets just remember three things:
Trevor Sergeant was physically and verbally assaulted in a DCC meeting by other councillors when he showed a cheque that a developer had sent him and asked who else had got one. Fair play to him for standing up against those corrupt animals who took money and enabled massive rezoning of lands everywhere for residential development. FACT
John Gormley when he confronted Michael Mcdowell in Ranelagh (2007) stated the banks should pay more tax and be regualted more . . . FACT
Local Green Councillors were constantly out voted by fianna Fail and Fine gael councillors in rezoing decisions with development plans etc that enabled ridicolous amounts housing to be built against professional planning advice outside every village and town in the country causing to property bubble. FACT!!
Anyone else remember last summer when Mayo and Monaghan elected members were shouting and roaring because John Gormley ordered two directives (the 1st time a minister of the environment used his powers) to the councillors in Mayo and Monaghan to alter their development plans so that there wouldn't be zoning for residential development that would cater for a population til 2073 at optimistic levels. Hmmm that was 2008 and McGuinness and a few more apes in both more councils were going mad saying they will go all the way to europe and calling gormley a latte drinking blah blah blah . . Hmm than all of sudden the last year aka 09/10 happened and they suddenly went quiet. hmm interesting . . . .fools (And Im from Kerry so don't go saying I dont understand rural Ireland)
The reason we are in the mess we are in is down to local councillors (Most fine gael and fianna fail) meddling in planning over zoning land, thus fueling the property bubble and Bang!!!
If you hate the greens for some other reason grand, but hindsight is great it is a pity no one listened to their foresight!!!
I dream of an Ireland that one day votes in people to the Dail on a basis that isn't because of the events during the foundation of the state. I do get a bit embarrassed when I see Sinn Fein get more votes than the Greens in that poll.
Hmmm which do you prefer - a party who wants to save the environment or one who doesn't condemn the murder of Gardai - servants of the state.
Would we ever see a Labour/ Green Coalition?0 -
You're asking them the wrong question. It's not "who did you/did you not vote for?", it's "did you vote?". I'm thinking a lot of these people who hate FF don't know who else to vote for, and thus didn't vote.Everyone I know claims to hate FF and wouldn't vote for them
Unless FG gets rid of Enda and gets someone with balls, I'll most likely will vote FF again. The Greeners will follow the carrot. Labour don't seem to have a plan. Sometimes vote for an Independent. SF can go f**k themselves. I know a few who hate FF, and I'd say half of them will vote FF again, as there is no-one else out there to vote.
In England, the opposition attack, attack, attack. Here, there is no opposition.0 -
I'm wondering. Where has the swing occured? If FF go from 2.4 quotas in a constituency to 1.6 quotas, they might still get two seats. That said, if they go from 1.9 quotas to 1.2 quotas, they are in trouble.0
-
-
Sorry, couldn't think of just three! :mad:sliabhluachra wrote: »Could some please tell me 3 things that the Green party have done to be so hated??? I am not a member of them, but I just cant understand why someone would actually hate a bunch of do gooders???
* Buried a contradiction report on the environmental impact a motor way would have on Tara, then went on to silence one of the people that had been asked to write the said report and when she objected to being told to shut-up, moved her and demoted her!
* They voted AGAINST (with FF) providing the much needed DIRECT funds need to keep St Josephs ward, an operating theatre open and out-patients section. I was there for the vote and when they denied the money to the hospital, the shaking of hands and backslapping was sickening! Who's actually mentally sick enough to vote to keep a MUCH needed childrens section closed - then behave like they had just won a prize!!!
* NOT doing anything to resolve the expenses issue. For example: fellow independent Jackie Healy-Rae who is still propping them up also says he was "rock solid" behind the Government but this comes as no surprise given that he's handsomely rewarded for such loyalty in wages and expenses - last year €89,000 in expenses alone (this year so far: €69,000) on top of his triple Dail wages (Basic Salary: €106,581 + Independent Automatic Allowance: €41,152 + Committee Chair: €10,241) and other perks which according to accounts last made public totalled €289,769!
Why the greens are still holding up this unwanted farce of a government is now still unclear! Are they too just waiting for their next redundancy and pension rights which they get for EVERY 4 years too?
* For failing to support the Gardi in tackling crime and allowing them to be chopped to pieces by FF - Greens say nothing! For example: Just this year lone this is what the Gardi is facing before they even get to the drug pushers! They, the Greens are silent while allowing FF to destroy our nations crime fighting sections!
- ALL building plans - SHELVED
- No new cars (but the Dublin mayor alone gets a new '09 Rolls Royce!!!)
- Recruitment cut by 60%
- Overtime cut by a quarter
- A planned computer system for managing what little information they have - SHELVED!
- 40 Civilian assistance roles SHELVED!
- Much needed improvements to Garda stations (Kilkenny and Wexford to mention 2) - SHELVED
- Dublin's Kevin St station serious needed overhaul - chopped!
- The Center of Excellence for Garda Training (firearms instruction/other training) - SHELVED
- Training for rest of Gardi slashed by 52%
- IT project to handle evidence on big cases, "The Major Investigation Support System" - GONE
...and that's only the beginning according to an internal report for the beginning of 2009.
Its a national disgrace that our government ministers can get new 2009 cars and yet they steal the coppers (no pun intended) from the Gardi that funds their efforts to deal with the dirt of Irish society.
Like it or not - THEY ARE IN GOVERNMENT - they should start behaving that way and stop being FF puppets. Opening their mouths when they think its PR safe to!
* For being stupid enough to swallow FF useless, non-detailed "promises" and voting for them basically at their last meeting last the RDS.
* For imposing yet more coming taxes at some stage on the public: Carbon tax, water tax/levy.
* For STILL propping up the useless, two faced useless, lying FF cnuts when they have shown how corrupt they are!
* For supporting John O'Donaghue and allowing him to still keep a massive amount of pay-off pensions and still(!) retain his TD seat (with more massive wages and ANOTHER expense account) in the Dail when he has been exposed as a further example of FF and their wasting public tax money!
( - all this in the same week that a British MP was exposed for just misrepresenting (fraud) £150 quid on three meals and got a court sentence instead!)
* For still propping up a political Mafia that STILL won't make the religious organisations pay-up that have so far been exposed, despite they trying to bury reports and delaying others still up to last week!
* For propping up a government who' leader thinks and has stated it in public (15'th sept 2009 - FF meeting in Athlone) that loyalty to the party comes first and the country can come somewhere after that!
* For all refusing to take a pay-cut then they are telling everyone in the country to take one and is getting walloped in the back account, wallet/pocket and will be more so in December! Two faced, hypocrites!
* For running up massive expenses alone - including Gormley himself and HIS €500 limo rides at London airports!
* For allowing the new Public Service Obligation (PSO) levy which is to compensate the ESB for the higher costs of providing electricity from renewable sources such as wind, and also from native peat. This at a time when prices are DROPPING! The new charge is an extra €12 for householders but even worse, for businesses the new tax bill is expected to be higher running into thousands of euros extra.
* For allowing NAMA!
* For allowing and partly creating the mess of a budget that is coming in December. If there is not protests in the streets, I'd be more shocked! Mind you they and FF are doing loads of u-turns already! They are doing u-turns for the unions but when it comes to those with less money, the elderly, the unemployed, YOU? - they will in December wallop ye all in the wallet!
* For refusing out-blank to tackle Harney and her expensive HSE drug issue. The health service has been accused of squandering hundreds of millions of euro over the past decade by paying massively inflated prices for prescription drugs. New industry figures reveal how manufacturers are being paid up to 18 times more for some generic drugs in Ireland than for the same products in the UK. The figures indicate that up to €98m a year of taxpayers' money could be saved on the medical card scheme alone if UK generic prices for some of the most popular medicines were being paid here. The inflated costs -- which stem from agreements between the HSE and the pharmaceutical industry -- have been blamed on a number of factors.
These include the relatively small size of the Irish market and fears that drug companies could stop supplying certain vital products if forced to accept lower prices. Industry figures show that the top 20 medicines prescribed under the medical card scheme cost the State almost €360m each year. Nine of these brands have generic versions which are widely sold at a fraction of the original brand's cost in the UK -- despite being of equal quality. However, in Ireland the same generics are only slightly cheaper than the branded versions.
Were these prices slashed to UK levels, between €89m and €98m could be saved on the medical card scheme each year, according to estimates.
* For the many, many time again staying silent like a good lapdog to Fianna Fail when massive pay-offs are allowed. For example:
It appears that the 1 million pay-off given to FAS Rody Molloy is not the first this year to a senior civil servant. Mr Patrick Neary the former financial regulator who oversaw the collapse of the Irish banking system, left office with a package worth more than €600,000 and and pension more than three times the annual wage. In addition to being on an annual salary of €285,341, he received a lump sum of €428,000 and can look forwards to a pension of €142,670, or €2,750 a week every year for the rest of his life! Then there is the retiring department of Foreign Affairs secretary general Dermot Gallagher who also got a bumper package then within nine days was moved to a new €150,000 state job as chairman of the Garda Ombudsman Commission!
* For allowing this country to be buried in 40 years minimum of MASSIVE debt (NAMA) due to 100+ fur and hare coursing nutters to sway a national vote!
Is that enough reasons to begin with?0 -
Advertisement
-
* Buried a contradiction report on the environmental impact a motor way would have on Tara, then went on to silence one of the people that had been asked to write the said report and when she objected to being told to shut-up, moved her and demoted her!
Did Ciarán Cuffe say this in 2005 about the M3 motorway near Tara...? -
“A motorway and a spaghetti junction this close to one of the most historic and sacred sites in Ireland is an enormous mistake".
It's amazing how their "policies" changed when they got into power.0 -
Did Ciarán Cuffe say this in 2005 about the M3 motorway near Tara...? -
“A motorway and a spaghetti junction this close to one of the most historic and sacred sites in Ireland is an enormous mistake".
It's amazing how their "policies" changed when they got into power.Press Releases: 31 March 2005 Tara Motorway‘Tara Motorway Approval an Act of Vandalism' –Green Party
The Green Party has described reports that the Government will build the M3 Motorway through the Tara-Skreen Valley as an Act of Vandalism.
The Party has accused the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government of ignoring the views of the National Museum and international opinion on the issue.
The Green Party's Environment Spokesperson Ciarán Cuffe TD stated:
"If Minister Roche issues licenses for archaeological excavation along this route, he will effectively have ignored the views of the National Museum. This would be a dangerous precedent in Irish planning decisions.
"Tara can not be seen in isolation from its surrounding landscape. This motorway and the massive Blundlestown Interchange will dramatically and irrevocably alter the landscape. Approving the road in its proposed location would be an act of cultural and historic vandalism.
"How much of Ireland's history is this Government prepared to sacrifice on the altar of economic growth?
"There is now a very real danger that litigation in the Irish Courts or in Europe will delay the Motorway for many years.
"If the Local Authorities and Government had proceeded with the earlier proposals to bypass the towns along the route rather than build an entirely new motorway, traffic relief would already have been delivered.
"The National Roads Authority and An Bord Pleanála should give a greater weighting to archaeological and heritage considerations in planning new roads. I believe that the Route and Corridor Selection Reports prepared for this motorway placed engineering concerns ahead of protecting heritage. This is too high a price to pay for progress.
Source: http://www.ciarancuffe.ie/PR/2005/PR050331E.Tara.Motorway.htm
or: http://www.ciarancuffe.ie/PR/2005/PR050302E.Tara.Museum.htm
or: http://www.savetara.com/statements/101707_cuffe.html
or: http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/tara_motorway_approval_is_an_act_of_vandalism
- and so on...
He'd been against it though before that, 2004: http://cuffestreet.blogspot.com/2004_12_01_archive.html
Yep, amazing backtracking once they got in the Dail door! :mad:
However its just one of many, many that have happened since they got on on the gravy train of power, massive wages and expenses accounts.
...and people wonder why they are hated?0 -
* For propping up a government who' leader thinks and has stated it in public (15'th sept 2009 - FF meeting in Athlone) that loyalty to the party comes first and the country can come somewhere after that!
TD's should be forced to take a loyalty oat to the country. Anybody putting the interests of themselves or the party before the best interests of the country should have all their assets taken off them -(like the CAB does with certain criminals) , they should be put in jail, and be banned from working in public services, and banned from holding director roles or serving on company boards etc.
No chance of this happening any time soon.0 -
Anybody putting the interests of themselves or the party before the best interests of the country should have all their assets taken off them -(like the CAB does with certain criminals)
:rolleyes:
If something's in the best interests of a party, it will get the party more votes. You want to take all of the assets off politicians who do things to get votes?
Would you rather politicians do things that don't earn them votes?0 -
TD's should be forced to take a loyalty oat to the country. Anybody putting the interests of themselves or the party before the best interests of the country should have all their assets taken off them -(like the CAB does with certain criminals) , they should be put in jail, and be banned from working in public services, and banned from holding director roles or serving on company boards etc.
No chance of this happening any time soon.
Ignoring the sheer lunacy of your proposal, it would be next to impossible to prove. e.g., many decent people happen to think NAMA or the road through Tara is in our countries best interests, and other equally decent people hold an opposite view.
NAMA may be a disaster and we may live to regret the N3 road, but that will only prove the politicians involved were wrong.
Proving to an accepted legal standard that any decisions were made for corrupt reasons as opposed to reasons of ineptitude is really really difficult.0 -
Time Magazine wrote: »:rolleyes:
If something's in the best interests of a party, it will get the party more votes. You want to take all of the assets off politicians who do things to get votes?
Would you rather politicians do things that don't earn them votes?
I would rather they do things that benefit the country. Something in the best interests of the party does not mean it is best for the country. Why do some politicians have more loyalty to their party than the people of this country?
Too many of them go along party lines and vote for what the party whip says, there are some exceptions.
When I said assets should be taken off politicians, I meant the corrupt ones such as Beverly Copper-Flynn, Michael Lowry etc0 -
ArmaniJeanss wrote: »Ignoring the sheer lunacy of your proposal, it would be next to impossible to prove. e.g., many decent people happen to think NAMA or the road through Tara is in our countries best interests, and other equally decent people hold an opposite view.
NAMA may be a disaster and we may live to regret the N3 road, but that will only prove the politicians involved were wrong.
Proving to an accepted legal standard that any decisions were made for corrupt reasons as opposed to reasons of ineptitude is really really difficult.
I'm sure there are people that believe the M3 is in our interests, but they would also say that they wouldn't want to see the Hill of Tara destroyed either. Questions could be asked about why an alternative route further away from the Hill couldn't be found. The Green Party were against it before 2007, as soon as they get in power there is no objection anymore, it is this kind of rubbish I can't stand. Say one thing when in opposition, do another thing when in power. Do the Green Party believe NAMA will work, or did they vote for it just to avoid bringing down the government?0 -
ArmaniJeanss wrote: »I
Proving to an accepted legal standard that any decisions were made for corrupt reasons as opposed to reasons of ineptitude is really really difficult.
I agree, but some might be easier, for example, Ray Burke's involvement with Corrib Gas.0 -
ArmaniJeanss wrote: »Is 'new car sales coming to a full stop' actually a bad thing for our economy?
I'd have thought that reducing €25,000+ purchases where a huge % of the profit goes outside the country would be a positive.
Your dead right and there is sound economic and environmental sense to the carbon tax, water charges and VRT etc. I just have little sympathy for th car industry - it is the most unsustainable in the world. It is based on demand levels that people will buy cars every year or so. that was the overindulgence that caused our problems now.
Handy for day trips on a sat or sun but I can't stand the sight of all the SUV's on the N11 in the morning with ya . . 1 person in them (I wouldn't mind if they were dropping kids to school. Get the bus like. Ive lived in Dublin for 3 years and purposely left my car at home in kerry and I haven't needed it once (not even for shopping, tesco deliver) and i am never as happy.0 -
Sorry, couldn't think of just three! :mad:
* Buried a contradiction report on the environmental impact a motor way would have on Tara, then went on to silence one of the people that had been asked to write the said report and when she objected to being told to shut-up, moved her and demoted her!
* They voted AGAINST (with FF) providing the much needed DIRECT funds need to keep St Josephs ward, an operating theatre open and out-patients section. I was there for the vote and when they denied the money to the hospital, the shaking of hands and backslapping was sickening! Who's actually mentally sick enough to vote to keep a MUCH needed childrens section closed - then behave like they had just won a prize!!!
* NOT doing anything to resolve the expenses issue. For example: fellow independent Jackie Healy-Rae who is still propping them up also says he was "rock solid" behind the Government but this comes as no surprise given that he's handsomely rewarded for such loyalty in wages and expenses - last year €89,000 in expenses alone (this year so far: €69,000) on top of his triple Dail wages (Basic Salary: €106,581 + Independent Automatic Allowance: €41,152 + Committee Chair: €10,241) and other perks which according to accounts last made public totalled €289,769!
Why the greens are still holding up this unwanted farce of a government is now still unclear! Are they too just waiting for their next redundancy and pension rights which they get for EVERY 4 years too?
* For failing to support the Gardi in tackling crime and allowing them to be chopped to pieces by FF - Greens say nothing! For example: Just this year lone this is what the Gardi is facing before they even get to the drug pushers! They, the Greens are silent while allowing FF to destroy our nations crime fighting sections!
- ALL building plans - SHELVED
- No new cars (but the Dublin mayor alone gets a new '09 Rolls Royce!!!)
- Recruitment cut by 60%
- Overtime cut by a quarter
- A planned computer system for managing what little information they have - SHELVED!
- 40 Civilian assistance roles SHELVED!
- Much needed improvements to Garda stations (Kilkenny and Wexford to mention 2) - SHELVED
- Dublin's Kevin St station serious needed overhaul - chopped!
- The Center of Excellence for Garda Training (firearms instruction/other training) - SHELVED
- Training for rest of Gardi slashed by 52%
- IT project to handle evidence on big cases, "The Major Investigation Support System" - GONE
...and that's only the beginning according to an internal report for the beginning of 2009.
Its a national disgrace that our government ministers can get new 2009 cars and yet they steal the coppers (no pun intended) from the Gardi that funds their efforts to deal with the dirt of Irish society.
Like it or not - THEY ARE IN GOVERNMENT - they should start behaving that way and stop being FF puppets. Opening their mouths when they think its PR safe to!
* For being stupid enough to swallow FF useless, non-detailed "promises" and voting for them basically at their last meeting last the RDS.
* For imposing yet more coming taxes at some stage on the public: Carbon tax, water tax/levy.
* For STILL propping up the useless, two faced useless, lying FF cnuts when they have shown how corrupt they are!
* For supporting John O'Donaghue and allowing him to still keep a massive amount of pay-off pensions and still(!) retain his TD seat (with more massive wages and ANOTHER expense account) in the Dail when he has been exposed as a further example of FF and their wasting public tax money!
( - all this in the same week that a British MP was exposed for just misrepresenting (fraud) £150 quid on three meals and got a court sentence instead!)
* For still propping up a political Mafia that STILL won't make the religious organisations pay-up that have so far been exposed, despite they trying to bury reports and delaying others still up to last week!
* For propping up a government who' leader thinks and has stated it in public (15'th sept 2009 - FF meeting in Athlone) that loyalty to the party comes first and the country can come somewhere after that!
* For all refusing to take a pay-cut then they are telling everyone in the country to take one and is getting walloped in the back account, wallet/pocket and will be more so in December! Two faced, hypocrites!
* For running up massive expenses alone - including Gormley himself and HIS €500 limo rides at London airports!
* For allowing the new Public Service Obligation (PSO) levy which is to compensate the ESB for the higher costs of providing electricity from renewable sources such as wind, and also from native peat. This at a time when prices are DROPPING! The new charge is an extra €12 for householders but even worse, for businesses the new tax bill is expected to be higher running into thousands of euros extra.
* For allowing NAMA!
* For allowing and partly creating the mess of a budget that is coming in December. If there is not protests in the streets, I'd be more shocked! Mind you they and FF are doing loads of u-turns already! They are doing u-turns for the unions but when it comes to those with less money, the elderly, the unemployed, YOU? - they will in December wallop ye all in the wallet!
* For refusing out-blank to tackle Harney and her expensive HSE drug issue. The health service has been accused of squandering hundreds of millions of euro over the past decade by paying massively inflated prices for prescription drugs. New industry figures reveal how manufacturers are being paid up to 18 times more for some generic drugs in Ireland than for the same products in the UK. The figures indicate that up to €98m a year of taxpayers' money could be saved on the medical card scheme alone if UK generic prices for some of the most popular medicines were being paid here. The inflated costs -- which stem from agreements between the HSE and the pharmaceutical industry -- have been blamed on a number of factors.
These include the relatively small size of the Irish market and fears that drug companies could stop supplying certain vital products if forced to accept lower prices. Industry figures show that the top 20 medicines prescribed under the medical card scheme cost the State almost €360m each year. Nine of these brands have generic versions which are widely sold at a fraction of the original brand's cost in the UK -- despite being of equal quality. However, in Ireland the same generics are only slightly cheaper than the branded versions.
Were these prices slashed to UK levels, between €89m and €98m could be saved on the medical card scheme each year, according to estimates.
* For the many, many time again staying silent like a good lapdog to Fianna Fail when massive pay-offs are allowed. For example:
It appears that the 1 million pay-off given to FAS Rody Molloy is not the first this year to a senior civil servant. Mr Patrick Neary the former financial regulator who oversaw the collapse of the Irish banking system, left office with a package worth more than €600,000 and and pension more than three times the annual wage. In addition to being on an annual salary of €285,341, he received a lump sum of €428,000 and can look forwards to a pension of €142,670, or €2,750 a week every year for the rest of his life! Then there is the retiring department of Foreign Affairs secretary general Dermot Gallagher who also got a bumper package then within nine days was moved to a new €150,000 state job as chairman of the Garda Ombudsman Commission!
* For allowing this country to be buried in 40 years minimum of MASSIVE debt (NAMA) due to 100+ fur and hare coursing nutters to sway a national vote!
Is that enough reasons to begin with?
God how long did that take you? Yeah fair enough some of your arguments are fair. I would however try not to blame issues on the greens that are aren't a black and white or good/bad decisions. e.g. economists and other professionals are the officers that recommend and concieve legislation such as NAMA. I refrain from commenting on it as I do not have the long years put in by those in relevant fields to propose something like NAMA or indeed argue against it. Likewise with the tax and levy, that is a proffessional opinion with regard to economic externalities. Most you would find would agree with it. Sure people were nearly crying about the plastic bag levy and bin charges, you actually would be considered mentally unstable if you argued against them now. Measures like that just reduce waste and it has to be done.
Sorry nor am I gona be lectured on a budget that does not yet exist, there will be strikes cos people think individually and are oblivous to the debt we are inm likewise to cuts in expenditure where you think we will get the money?
Building shelved?? Jesus Christ sorry but what the hell. So you want more building is it. ya that will sort the oversupply in the market.
Nor am I gona take arguments about propping up FF, irrelavant, greens are making a difference in government, politics is bigger than FF and FG, well it should be unless you want to go back to the 1920s. They would be a cowardly party to run at times of difficult.
"For running up massive expenses alone - including Gormley himself and HIS €500 limo rides at London airports" hearsay in fact he has the least of all TDs. RTE done a report the time of the JOD controversy, something like 5,000e.
As far as I know, Dick Roche put the allowed the M3 go ahead just before he left office and gormley came in powerless to stop it. Check rte.ie from that time.
I do agree they should throw their weight around more and speak up against stuff like the expenses and the squandering of money etc.
However you seemed so preoccupied with making more than 3 points, there were numerous that overlapped. If you handed such a thing up for debate to be defended or to an exam question it would be widely discredited and dismissed as folly!!!
You are dead right bout speaking up and if what you say is true about that hospital than that is shameful.0 -
Advertisement
-
Not a chance. This government has no moral authority to lead as far Im concerned. They will be hit hard in the next election and their decision to ride it out is reprehensible. And I think the fact they finally chose to release information on JOD on day of Lisbon poll says it all.evercloserunion wrote: »It's just like after Lisbon II, all the No side people saying it must have been fraud because everyone they knew was voting No. People are more likely to be vocal about hating FF than about not really minding them I guess.
A FF comeback is underway I think.0 -
...but that's why I was surprised. At the worst of times for them they are still getting 25% support. Throw in a few sweetners before an election (somehow) and they are sorted!0
-
sliabhluachra wrote: »...Building shelved?? Jesus Christ sorry but what the hell. So you want more building is it. ya that will sort the oversupply in the market. (1)
Nor am I gona take arguments about propping up FF, irrelavant, greens are making a difference in government, politics is bigger than FF and FG, well it should be unless you want to go back to the 1920s. They would be a cowardly party to run at times of difficult.
"For running up massive expenses alone - including Gormley himself and HIS €500 limo rides at London airports" hearsay in fact he has the least of all TDs. RTE done a report the time of the JOD controversy, something like 5,000e. (2)
As far as I know, Dick Roche put the allowed the M3 go ahead just before he left office and gormley came in powerless to stop it. Check rte.ie from that time. (3)
I do agree they should throw their weight around more and speak up against stuff like the expenses and the squandering of money etc.
However you seemed so preoccupied with making more than 3 points, there were numerous that overlapped. (4)
If you handed such a thing up for debate to be defended or to an exam question it would be widely discredited and dismissed as folly!!! (5)
You are dead right about speaking up and if what you say is true about that hospital than that is shameful. (6)
(1) I mentioned the cancelling of a number of Gardi buildings that have been begged for, for years!
Has been shown over a number of Gardi submissions that they need such training structures to cope with the growing crime figures alone.
Growing internet crime, smuggling crime, piracy crime, increased violent crime with robberies, increased numbers of bank related kidnappings, etc...
Where are you going with your "building" generalisation??? You are perhaps trying to impose a generalisation that I'm calling for more buildings generally? I'm not, so please don't try to perhaps mistakenly imply it.
(2) Gormleys €500 limo rides are NOT just hearsay - they have been recorded in documentation and exposed in the media just in the last two weeks alone so that attempt of a brush off don't wash either!
(3) The Green party knew about the Tara motorway plans WELL BEFORE they entered into power with Fianna Fail - and guess what - then opposed them.
They enter power and all of a sudden - that forgotten in an amazing, breathtaking u-turn! Call me stupid but I'd see that as totally letting down the idealogical basis and principles of the party and their members in which they were voted for alone, never mind the other reasons!
(4) Clearly then you didn't see to differentiate between the points that has been made.
So here is a more basic ABC version.
a. They are in power as part of a government. Although they are operating as a "Green" party - because they are IN POWER - that makes them if they like it or not a group that then has to deal with all the peoples national issues of the day/month/year and not bypass them just because it's not a "Green" issue. "A sure, we can let FF deal with that one" - either they are full in power with FF or they are not!
Tell me you get that point surely!
b. Some areas overlap BUT those that do also show/expose further failings that are follow-up separate issues to the source from where they extend from!
Tell me please you can see that too?
(5) Sorry, thats a too simplistic brush-off as well. Those that will understand (4) - The point mentioned might be brushed off but for many, many others of this country they are just a few examples of the fellow incompetence with FF that are of concern to a great deal of the Irish nation.
I personally find it hurtful that it can said any points "for debate to be defended or to an exam question, it would be widely discredited and dismissed as folly!!!"
Thats the exact type of dismissive response I would expect only from a Green or Fianna Fail supporter or member who can't come up with anything better than a general put down when they can't come back with adequate detailed responses.
(6) O' it is true and if you don't want to take my work for it, talk to a number of reporters I can put you in contact with or to Theresa Shallow (and well as other parents and their inflicted children) -the founding head of the "Save Crumlin Hospital Campaign" whom was also there with me for those days as well in the Dail.
To sum up, the above earlier reasons are ONLY a few of the many rapidly growing basis for which the Green Party has now become just as hated at the Fianna Fail un-official mafia that now resides in the Dail.0 -
Hmmm. It still seems to bother people that they can make their democratic choice with FF. More whining about NAMA by people who don't know their ass from their elbow economically. I don't give a damn about valuations so long as there are ways for the state to claw back money off the banks if it does make a loss....but that's why I was surprised. At the worst of times for them they are still getting 25% support. Throw in a few sweetners before an election (somehow) and they are sorted!
Much more importantly, I'd rather have a bailout, if it's going to be necessary, funded by "paper money" in the form of ECB bonds instead of nationalising them. Which would go on the budget deficit, over doubling it. And when it comes to international investors (i mean all FDI not just financial), if they see a banking system that is not about to collapse (Anglo was the exception, hence nationalisation) being nationalised, they will steer clear of those like the plague.
These people already think that most of Europe sings the internationale and that any country with virtually free healthcare is basically socialist. Unfortunately these gob****es are people who can't be f*cked with.
Outside of NAMA, FF have messed up big time. They *need* to learn a lesson as a party, as the goodwill shown to them by their historical background has pretty much flown out the window. I'm certain that there are better ways of doing cutbacks than trying to tie the Gardaí's hands behind their backs. But cutbacks are needed still. Politicians listen to tabloids. Tabloids "speak the people's mind". (all IMO, bear with it). Perhaps if people started making their voices heard on what SHOULD be axed, there would be more agreement at wide on fixing our financial mess.0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqkoz7hmc1s watch from about 3.20 , I thought they would never go into government with Ahern,..... so I voted Gormley No.1 , not only did he go into government, he shed a tear when he resigned and suggested him as an ideal candidate for the Mayor of Dublin:mad::mad::mad:
Fooled me once, never again.0
Advertisement