Some Questions for The Public Sector Bashers

jimd2

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector....

Why did you not try and get a job in the Irish Public Sector during the boom and when they were recruiting quite a lot?

Were you so happy with your private sector bonuses and rapid promotions that I know many people were getting?

Did the Public Sector seem an area that was not exciting enough for your undoubted talents?

Why were you not opening threads on forums / fora such as this venting your opinion about how the Public sector were going to ruin the country?

Were you objecting to the rapidly increasing house prices and the obvious effects this was having on mortgages and consequently wages in this economy?

Did you vent your feelings about Public Sector workers the last time you had an ineraction with a nurse, teacher, guard, dole office staff, social worker etc.?

Are your opinions on the Public Sector workers influenced by the slow drip feed of negatives being conveniently and continuously being released to the media in recent times?

What are your thoughts regarding those uindividuals that have avoided paying their taxes for many years in this country in spite of earning many multiples of Public Sector wages.

What are your thoughts about workers in banks whose effects on tis economy is much more stark but are now getting pay rises?

jimmmy

If you take the trouble to read through the various threads you will find answers to all of the above.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

jimmmy wrote: »

If you take the trouble to read through the various threads you will find answers to all of the above.

I want to hear you answer these Jimmmy.

imme

jimmmy wrote: »

If you take the trouble to read through the various threads you will find answers to all of the above.

I don't believe so

ei.sdraob

jimd2 wrote: »

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector....

during the boom yee kept getting benchmarked up, but everyone said fine the money is there, they deserve it

now we learn there is no money, and alot needs to be borrowed just to keep paying yee the same hugely inflated wages, also coming to light is the huge amount of waste (ministers expenses,hse failures,FAS) still happening.
when a tide leaves all the rubbish gets exposed on the beach

jimd2 wrote: »

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector....

alot of people did get jobs in public sector, your numbers have risen and there are **** load of quangos now

jimd2 wrote: »

Were you so happy with your private sector bonuses and rapid promotions that I know many people were getting?

what bonuses and what promotions? most people got by, the people gained most are in construction, they also lost the most now

and lets not forget the private sector has no job security

jimd2 wrote: »

Did the Public Sector seem an area that was not exciting enough for your undoubted talents?

100% of the population cant work on the public sector

thats called communism

and we know how that ends up

jimd2 wrote: »

Why were you not opening threads on forums / fora such as this venting your opinion about how the Public sector were going to ruin the country?

once again the money was there to pay yee and grow fat
alot of people did protest against the raping by the "social partners" and the unions

jimd2 wrote: »

Did you vent your feelings about Public Sector workers the last time you had an ineraction with a nurse, teacher, guard, dole office staff, social worker etc.?

dont get me started, i personally hold a grudge about several depts for terrible service compared to what one gets in other EU countries

jimd2 wrote: »

Are your opinions on the Public Sector workers influenced by the slow drip feed of negatives being conveniently and continuously being released to the media in recent times?

as i said now that the tide is gone, all the dirty bits are being exposed, and the amount of waste is sickening

jimd2 wrote: »

What are your thoughts regarding those uindividuals that have avoided paying their taxes for many years in this country in spite of earning many multiples of Public Sector wages.

send them to jail, along with all the public sector wasters who wasted even more money

jimd2 wrote: »

What are your thoughts about workers in banks whose effects on tis economy is much more stark but are now getting pay rises?

they shouldn't have been given a cent in the first place (by the government who are part of the PS)

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

glaston

When a private company goes through lean times they have to make changes to avoid going under. Usually comprising of staff and or wage cuts, changing employee working practices, running efficiency programmes, rationalisation and all that. This isnt bashing anybody, its taking a good hard look at the fundamental structure of the business, how it should be improved. This kind of change is always necessary to survive.

The time has come for the public sector to be put under the same microscope.
As a country we are hemorrhaging money.
Private and public sector workers have a right to expect value for their tax money.

HollyB

ei.sdraob wrote: »

during the boom yee kept getting benchmarked up, but everyone said fine the money is there, they deserve it

Logically, wouldn't that mean that the post-benchmarking pay rates are the pay rates that public sector workers merit based on their work and that any cuts would be solely because of the economic situation, not the value of the work done by public sector workers?

I'd say that most public sector workers know that, under the present economic climate, pay cuts are necessary and that they accept that they need to take a hit in the pay packet for the sake of the economy but it's the vitriol being directed at the public sector workers that they have a problem with. If the public sector is being scapegoated, what guarantee do they have that, if they accept a pay cut without a fight this budget, they won't find themselves targetted again next year, or even a few months down the line, because the government knows that it's succeeded in its divide and conquer strategy and that they can count on having plenty of people who are practically salivating at the prospect of the public sector workers taking another hit?

A little acknowledgement that the economic downturn is not the fault of the public sector as a whole and of the cuts the public sector is taking would probably go a long way, much further than bitter rants against public sector pay and pensions ever will.

I'd take a pay cut for the sake of getting the economy back on track. I wouldn't take one because of people whining that I'm overpaid because of the salary agreed upon through benchmarking and union negotiations.

imme

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

(1)did no one listen to what you've been saying for years, were you taking to yourself?
(2) what do you mean by irresponsibly expansionist monetary policy? It's just a collection of words, designed to look good, imo. Who do you suggest was implementing this policy post-Euro, the Irish Central Bank? or was this a Euro-wide policy?
(3) what problems did teachers and nurses create exactly. Did your TD and councillor not listen to you, I'm shocked. Do they still call on you?

diverdriver

Well you asked:rolleyes:

jimd2 wrote: »

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector....

I don't bash the public sector, most people don't bash the public sector. This is a lie been perpetrated by your unions and people with an agenda?

Why did you not try and get a job in the Irish Public Sector during the boom and when they were recruiting quite a lot?

I had a job thank you. I didn't need another one.

Were you so happy with your private sector bonuses and rapid promotions that I know many people were getting?

This the excuse for used for the benchmarking process. The reality was quite different. Again this is a myth your unions want you to believe. As it happens I did get bonuses and by God I earned them. They weren't simply handed out the way they are in certain PS jobs. My last one was about €300 for the year. Rapid promotion? Again earned. My payrise was....wait for it £200 a year and then only because I argued I should get something. Remember pay rises and benchmarking were meaningless to the private sector. All my payrises were around 1% or 2% or if I was lucky 3%. Thanks to typical ruthless private sector practices. My pay was actually less the day I left than it was two years earlier.

Did the Public Sector seem an area that was not exciting enough for your undoubted talents?

That's a stupid point.

Why were you not opening threads on forums / fora such as this venting your opinion about how the Public sector were going to ruin the country?

Another myth from your union friends. The PS is not ruining the country. No one is saying that. NOBODY. We all know who dropped us in it. It wasn't the PS.

Were you objecting to the rapidly increasing house prices and the obvious effects this was having on mortgages and consequently wages in this economy?

Frankly yes. Who wasn't. I was priced out of it. It was unsustainable and we all knew it.

Did you vent your feelings about Public Sector workers the last time you had an ineraction with a nurse, teacher, guard, dole office staff, social worker etc.?

No because I don't blame them for what happened. In any case, it isn't nice. I had quite a pleasant conversation with the Garda, who did me for speeding recently. Again this is one of the myths.

Are your opinions on the Public Sector workers influenced by the slow drip feed of negatives being conveniently and continuously being released to the media in recent times?

If you mean the truth about waste in the public service, sick days, allowances, short working days, inefficiencies. Then the answer is no. I knew all about that kind of thing for years. It was no secret you know. We all knew about it. We just put up with it.

What are your thoughts regarding those uindividuals that have avoided paying their taxes for many years in this country in spite of earning many multiples of Public Sector wages.

They should be pursued and arrested by the PS workers whose job is to stop them. But what have tax dodgers have to do with the PS wages?

What are your thoughts about workers in banks whose effects on tis economy is much more stark but are now getting pay rises?

It's outrageous. But then that's the union way. Haven't the PS unions asked for payrises too.

drkpower

jimd2 wrote: »

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector....

Why did you not try and get a job in the Irish Public Sector during the boom and when they were recruiting quite a lot?

Were you so happy with your private sector bonuses and rapid promotions that I know many people were getting?

Did the Public Sector seem an area that was not exciting enough for your undoubted talents?

Why were you not opening threads on forums / fora such as this venting your opinion about how the Public sector were going to ruin the country?

Were you objecting to the rapidly increasing house prices and the obvious effects this was having on mortgages and consequently wages in this economy?

Did you vent your feelings about Public Sector workers the last time you had an ineraction with a nurse, teacher, guard, dole office staff, social worker etc.?

Are your opinions on the Public Sector workers influenced by the slow drip feed of negatives being conveniently and continuously being released to the media in recent times?

What are your thoughts regarding those uindividuals that have avoided paying their taxes for many years in this country in spite of earning many multiples of Public Sector wages.

What are your thoughts about workers in banks whose effects on tis economy is much more stark but are now getting pay rises?

All of the above questions are irrelevent (aswell as perjorative and unnecessarily provocative). The country has less money now, is spending more than it earns, and needs to reduce expenditure. There are a number of areas to choose from. One of them is public sector wages. They will be cut. They have to be cut. The only question is whether the public service decides to damage the country further by engaging in crippling industrial action.

The public vs private fighting and the blame game is pointless- and potentially dangerous. Dont fall into that trap.

jhegarty

jimd2 wrote: »

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector...

It's not bashed. We just can't afford it.

Every time the government puts up tax , less comes in.

Lets say I agree with every point in your post, where is the money going to come from ?

dresden8

ei.sdraob wrote: »

kept getting benchmarked up,

How many benchmarking processes resulted in pay increases in the public sector?

And I don't mean for politicians, they screwed everybody over several times. Real public sector workers.

ei.sdraob

HollyB wrote: »

Logically, wouldn't that mean that the post-benchmarking pay rates are the pay rates that public sector workers merit based on their work and that any cuts would be solely because of the economic situation, not the value of the work done by public sector workers?

"they deserve it"

should have been in quotes

thats what the unions kept telling us, lucky for them there was money to raise wages with well above eu average thanks to a boom in construction

now that the money is gone, its unreasonable to expect same high salaries as before

dresden8 wrote: »

How many benchmarking processes resulted in pay increases in the public sector?

And I don't mean for politicians, they screwed everybody over several times. Real public sector workers.

i dont know, how many raises and other perks where there, it certainly was on the news alot

gerry28

jhegarty wrote: »

Every time the government puts up tax , less comes in.

If public sector wages are cut there will be less money spent in the economy... VAT will fall further.

Don't underestimate the psychological effect a paycut will have on the public sector - money will be hoarded even more than it is already.

drkpower

gerry28 wrote: »

If public sector wages are cut there will be less money spent in the economy... VAT will fall further.

Don't underestimate the psychological effect a paycut will have on the public sector - money will be hoarded even more than it is already.

Oh right, should we raise wages then?! Im afraid the ability of our economy to engage in a tax cutting and wage-rising stimulus just simply isnt there.
Cutting wages has some very unfortunate repurcussions, sure, but there is no alternative. We cant just keep spending as it is.

dresden8

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i dont know, how many raises and other perks where there, it certainly was on the news alot

Indeed. It was on the news a lot. A lot.

There was one benchmarking award of an average of 9%.

Everything else was the normal partnership agreements that everybody got.

Average "pension levy" was 7.9%.

Pre-benchmarking base 100

9% average benchmarking 109

"levy" of 7.9% 100.4

Net effect of benchmarking and pension levy is 0.4% increase in pay. Approx 0.2% nett.

I don't suppose jimmmy will have a chance to quote "the great" Eddie Hobbs on this issue, as Eddie won't mention it.

Given these figures how is benchmarking to blame for our economic woes?

Count Dooku

jimd2 wrote: »

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector....

Why did you not try and get a job in the Irish Public Sector during the boom and when they were recruiting quite a lot?

It wasn’t so easy to get a job. Everybody wanted to have a nice well paid, secure job with pension paid by taxpayers.
In 2006 80,000 applied for 3900 positions in public sector.
https://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2007/apr/01/open-access-to-public-service-jobs/

In 2006 the Public Appointments Service, through Publicjobs. ie, attracted some 80,000 applicants to apply for jobs throughout the public service. These positions ranged from clerical officers, junior diplomats and legal professionals in the civil service to engineers and senior managers in local authorities to hospital consultants and administrators in the health sector.

For example, in 2009 , when unemployment was already huge, only 4000 applied for 280 jobs in IKEA, which give us 14 applicants per position, while for PS jobs it was 20 applicants per position

old boy

op can you answer one simple question,
while every other sector are having to take wage cuts, change work practices, you people are demanding pay increases.

Paulzx

benwavner wrote: »

I want to hear you answer these Jimmmy.

I don't:)

dresden8

old boy wrote: »

on,
while every other sector are having to take wage cuts,

This is simply not true.

gerry28

drkpower wrote: »

Oh right, should we raise wages then?!

No, i'm not saying that - my point is that cutting public sector wages is not going to be the solution many seem to think it will be.

1.3 billion is mentioned as if cutting the wages by an exact percent will yield this sum exactly.

It more than likely won't - the effect it will have is unknown... more money hoarded, more jobs lost and so on.

It seems like the government is going to slowly drip out the misery every few months and every budget for the next 3 or so years.

How do they hope to instill confidence in our economy like this.

A policy of pain and little else!

dresden8

Originally Posted by benwavner
I want to hear you answer these Jimmmy

Paulzx wrote: »

I don't:)

Please don't say things like that, he'll claim the public service are trying to shut him up so the truth won't get out there.

glaston

while every other sector are having to take wage cuts,

dresden8 wrote: »

This is simply not true.

It is true for any employer who cannot afford to pay the wages.
They either cut the wages or cut staff.

Unfortunately your employer now finds itself in the same position.
Take your pick.

Purple Gorilla

Dresden, where do you propose we get the €400 million a week we are borrowing and why do you feel the Public Sector shouldn't be subject to a pay-cut when the Private Sector, on average, is now earning quite a bit less than their public-sector counterparts?
Remember, the Pension levy is tax-deductible and the private sector has been subject to worse paycuts.

I don't want sob stories about how some people don't deserve it or anything like that. We simply can't afford it. I really just want solid proposals from you on where we should be getting the money from if we can't get a pay-cut from the PS

drkpower

gerry28 wrote: »

No, i'm not saying that - my point is that cutting public sector wages is not going to be the solution many seem to think it will be.

If anyone thinks cutting Ps wages is the solution, they are deluded. However cutting spending significantly is necessary and Ps wages is part of that. It may not work, but not cutting spending definitely will not work.

The "who deserves it" argument (which you havent engaged in) is an irrelevent side issue guaranteed only to cause resentment and disquiet, the last thing we need right now (unless it is targetted against the Gov!)

imme

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Dresden, where do you propose we get the €400 million a week we are borrowing and why do you feel the Public Sector shouldn't be subject to a pay-cut when the Private Sector, on average, is now earning quite a bit less than their public-sector counterparts?
Remember, the Pension levy is tax-deductible and the private sector has been subject to worse paycuts.

I don't want sob stories about how some people don't deserve it or anything like that. We simply can't afford it. I really just want solid proposals from you on where we should be getting the money from if we can't get a pay-cut from the PS

the PS pension levy is not tax deductible
Edit: It is tax deductible. apologies PurpleGorilla

dresden8

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Dresden, where do you propose we get the €400 million a week we are borrowing and why do you feel the Public Sector shouldn't be subject to a pay-cut when the Private Sector, on average, is now earning quite a bit less than their public-sector counterparts?
Remember, the Pension levy is tax-deductible and the private sector has been subject to worse paycuts.

I don't want sob stories about how some people don't deserve it or anything like that. We simply can't afford it. I really just want solid proposals from you on where we should be getting the money from if we can't get a pay-cut from the PS

Remember, benchmarking was taxed on the way up and not all the private sector has been subject to worse paycuts.

Some of the private sector are still receiving pay rises and bonuses.

There are a lot of blatant lies and bull**** going around about this.

Maybe if the private sector stumped up this 6.1 billion per year they owed the country our 4 billion target this year could be met, and then some. Not to mention all the money that has been defrauded over the years.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/the-black-economy--is-back-in-business-1917172.html

How will that 6.1 billion affect average private sector earnings figures?

Maybe jimmmy could ask "the great" Eddie Hobbs to work it out.

drkpower

Jesus, Dresden; why oh why do you waste your time on this argument. Even if the private sector was flying and in rude health, it wouldnt change the Governmental finances - money has to be saved - public sector pay is a major spend - its bound to be cut. Deriding the private sector is irrelevent.

dvpower

imme wrote: »

the PS pension levy is not tax deductible

What? Isn't it taken from gross income?

dresden8

drkpower wrote: »

Jesus, Dresden; why oh why do you waste your time on this argument. Even if the private sector was flying and in rude health, it wouldnt change the Governmental finances - money has to be saved - public sector pay is a major spend - its bound to be cut. Deriding the private sector is irrelevent.

6.1 billion is irrelevant?

All I've done here is counter the lies and bull**** that "the great" Eddie Hobbs, IBEC and the government are spreading about the public sector.

There is a propaganda war going on at the moment and public sector workers do not like being villified by sectoral interests intent on scapegoating us.