Some Questions for The Public Sector Bashers

me_right_one

Just a thought. I think the emergency services should be considered separate from the general Public service. Different ballgame altogether.

imme

me_right_one wrote: »

Just a thought. I think the emergency services should be considered separate from the general Public service. Different ballgame altogether.

considered seperate, what do you mean?

me_right_one

imme wrote: »

considered seperate, what do you mean?

I mean any job where you get up in the morning, not knowing if you will ever be back to sleep in your own bed again, has my respect. If I was me_right_one DeValera, Irelands workforce would be segregated into Civil / Public servants, Private sector workers, and the Emergency Services.

Out from that, I've no sympathy for anyone who still has a job, but complains about it.

ardmacha

Out from that, I've no sympathy for anyone who still has a job, but complains about it.

Would you have more sympathy for someone who had a job and didn't look after it?

me_right_one

ardmacha wrote: »

Would you have more sympathy for someone who had a job and didn't look after it?

I'd have even less. But surely that wouldn't happen, surely such people would be kicked out of their jobs on their holes, and be billed for the costs of their laziness / incompetance!

lmimmfn

jimd2 wrote: »

Question for all of ye that have suddenly come out of the woodwork to bash those of us working (very hard I might add) in the Public Sector....

Why did you not try and get a job in the Irish Public Sector during the boom and when they were recruiting quite a lot?

because i like software development and its something i always wanted to do since i was a kid. PS doesnt offer anything interesting for me in that discipline.

jimd2 wrote: »

Were you so happy with your private sector bonuses and rapid promotions that I know many people were getting?

havnt had a bonus since 2001 had a 4% increase for 1 promotion though if thats the rapid promotion our on about.

jimd2 wrote: »

Did the Public Sector seem an area that was not exciting enough for your undoubted talents?

Yes, i like a challenge every day, i actually enjoy working late and weekends to get my job done and get a great buzz from it.

jimd2 wrote: »

Why were you not opening threads on forums / fora such as this venting your opinion about how the Public sector were going to ruin the country?

Its been talked about since ~2001 at work, threads werent created here because you guys are so defensive, 1 private sector would post something and 10 PS guys would go in and destroy the thread.

jimd2 wrote: »

Were you objecting to the rapidly increasing house prices and the obvious effects this was having on mortgages and consequently wages in this economy?

yes, all along, didnt buy, didnt contribute to the bubble or the nonsense that was happening.

jimd2 wrote: »

Did you vent your feelings about Public Sector workers the last time you had an ineraction with a nurse, teacher, guard, dole office staff, social worker etc.?

yes, several times if i perceive theyre not doing their job, no more than i get in the private sector. Especially doctors, my dad's been misdiagnosed several times over the past 8 years and fobbed off with try this crap, and crap about doctors not being able to change drugs( because the company that bribed them asked that then dont prescribe the competitions drugs )

jimd2 wrote: »

Are your opinions on the Public Sector workers influenced by the slow drip feed of negatives being conveniently and continuously being released to the media in recent times?

No, its been taking the piss for me from 1999/2000 onwards when the Dart drivers were on strike because Grand Canal Dock was opened( extra stop should apparently result in more pay haha ffs ). They were earning 50% more than me at the time with 2-3 years more 'experience' for pushing a feckin button. I could have skipped university and went straight into that if i'd known what a handy number it was, but i wont begrudge that only they were taking the piss.

jimd2 wrote: »

What are your thoughts regarding those uindividuals that have avoided paying their taxes for many years in this country in spite of earning many multiples of Public Sector wages.

Mixed, a lot of the guys not paying tax own tax generating companies so indirectly theyre still generating or contributing to the generation of taxes. The PS on the other hand is 100% tax consumer, of course you have to have a PS but its been taking the piss for too long now.

jimd2 wrote: »

What are your thoughts about workers in banks whose effects on tis economy is much more stark but are now getting pay rises?

scum.

lmimmfn

mikemac wrote: »

Scum???
The staff who got pay rises were below manager level. It's 3.5%, where were you in 2008 when this was agreed? I don't remember posts from you complaining about it

So the cashier who lodges your cheque or gets your foreign currency is scum?
They probably earn less then you! Now that's no issue, I'm only sure you worked hard to get where you want to be lmimmfn.

But don't blame what senior bank management did on the cashier who earns 22k just doing their job
Unless you truely believe they are scum? :rolleyes:

ok, ill be a bit more sensitive about the issue( and hey my missus doesnt earn much and works for the PS but i wouldnt agree that she deserves a pay rise either and im grand if she takes the 7% avg decrease proposed ).

My point on the banks and i honestly dont care what people are earning there( im sorry for them yes ) for the simple fact that we the tax payer have been bailing them out for the past year or so and will continue to do so via Nama for the next 11 years. If a business isint making money it should not be paying increases, the people involved should be happy enough to have a job nevermind taking the piss getting an increase now.

Personally ive been on a pay freeze for years and have taken a ~7% pay decrease this year via increased working hours which i dont mind in the least, ill do my best to earn money for the company and in turn for the state, but cmon people are losing jobs left right and centre. Yes its not fair but its not indicative of the improvements/reform we need in the banking sector.

imme

me_right_one wrote: »

I mean any job where you get up in the morning, not knowing if you will ever be back to sleep in your own bed again, has my respect. If I was me_right_one DeValera, Irelands workforce would be segregated into Civil / Public servants, Private sector workers, and the Emergency Services.

Out from that, I've no sympathy for anyone who still has a job, but complains about it.

me right one De Valera? Are you the great grandchild of Dev? The man was last in power in Ireland in 1961 you know. Anyway, I'm familiar with public servants who put their lives in danger and am proud of them. Good luck on your segregation policy.;)

Riskymove

dresden8 wrote: »

You've got entirely the wrong end of the stick.

No I have not

That's 12,000 grand a year each for people who will not be replaced.

The unemployment benefit rate is 204.30 per week or 10,623.60 per annum.

Those people who take the career break are giving up 36k on average per year for a bonus of €26.47 above the unemployment rate per week.

That's a saving of 36k per year per employee, at no great cost to the exchequer above the unemployment rate.

And as is pointed out, these also exist in the private sector.

My point about it costing the State is that just about everyone I know in the Org I work in who has availed of this scheme was going to go on an unpaid career break anyway i.e. for €0

they are now happily getting €36,000

while there is still a saving over the three years in salary terms I dont believe, imo, that many people who were not considering a career break have now done so because of this.

btw I dont know what the €36k per annum average refers to

Riskymove

Nodin wrote: »

I'm sure it does. The problem is that rather than the actual policy, we're given the usual vague 'Someone I know' crap, which says nothing about who is applicable, terms, conditions or anything else.

its not vague at all

the scheme, along with the scheme for early retirement and a revised version of the "term-time" scheme were announced in the last Budget

I am sure you'll find a copy of the relevant Civil Service Circular posted on the Department of Finance Website...in fact, here you go


http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/circular2009/cir132009.pdf

dresden8

Riskymove wrote: »

btw I dont know what the €36k per annum average refers to

That's jimmmy's much vaunted average public sector pay of 48k minus the 12k "incentive".

Ahsurelookit

God Im sick to the teeth of people having a bash at people in the public sector. Yes I have a job, I went to college to train for my job and am SO grateful to have a job I love and enjoy but I'll tell you one thing, Im tired. All the time, working on average 220 hours+ a month and only get paid for 156 of these (a cutback made by the organisation I work for). Im constantly wrecked and to hear people wanting us public sector workers take more of a wage cut is getting a bit ridiculous. I dont know many people that would work the hours I work, doing the job I do, because its not in everyones nature and some people simply wouldnt be suited to my line of work.

I still live at home with my parents, trying my best to save to one day have my own place. My pay is now considerably worse than when I left college 2 years ago, and theres an incriment block on my wage meaning I will not move up a scale for the forseeable future, so in reality the people most effected are the people on the lower wage scale in the public sector, not those on the top scale, it makes no sense, surely it would be more benificial to hit those on the higher scales. Many of the women I work with have children and are now the main source of income in their households, and I can tell you they are finding it so tough to keep their heads above water.

People give out about the people in admin and clerical jobs in the PS etc but the people like myself who work 22hour shifts in residential homes as care workers seem to get overshadowed and forgotten. I believe that people who are willing to make themselves available to work 365 days a year, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day are entitled to a decent wage at the end of it.


People might start going on about the 3weeks annual leave a year Im entitled to but I can speak for myself and those I work with when I say annual leave means one thing: Much needed sleep time.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! that feels a little bit better.

Warfi

Ahsurelookit wrote: »

God Im sick to the teeth of people having a bash at people in the public sector. Yes I have a job, I went to college to train for my job and am SO grateful to have a job I love and enjoy but I'll tell you one thing, Im tired. All the time, working on average 220 hours+ a month and only get paid for 156 of these (a cutback made by the organisation I work for). Im constantly wrecked and to hear people wanting us public sector workers take more of a wage cut is getting a bit ridiculous. I dont know many people that would work the hours I work, doing the job I do, because its not in everyones nature and some people simply wouldnt be suited to my line of work.

I still live at home with my parents, trying my best to save to one day have my own place. My pay is now considerably worse than when I left college 2 years ago, and theres an incriment block on my wage meaning I will not move up a scale for the forseeable future, so in reality the people most effected are the people on the lower wage scale in the public sector, not those on the top scale, it makes no sense, surely it would be more benificial to hit those on the higher scales. Many of the women I work with have children and are now the main source of income in their households, and I can tell you they are finding it so tough to keep their heads above water.

People give out about the people in admin and clerical jobs in the PS etc but the people like myself who work 22hour shifts in residential homes as care workers seem to get overshadowed and forgotten. I believe that people who are willing to make themselves available to work 365 days a year, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day are entitled to a decent wage at the end of it.


People might start going on about the 3weeks annual leave a year Im entitled to but I can speak for myself and those I work with when I say annual leave means one thing: Much needed sleep time.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! that feels a little bit better.

You do a fantastic job and earn every penny you get. Don't mind any begrudgers you come across, they've nothing better to do than b*tch and moan about someone who's lucky enough to have a job.

I agree with pay cuts, but not to the blatantly obvious media backlash perpetrated by our government. I think such coverage in the media adds to the stalemate. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that rubbing people up the wrong way won't get the desired results. But our government seems to ignore that in their rush to disarm the public service of their weapons of mass destruction.

irish_bob

Warfi wrote: »

You do a fantastic job and earn every penny you get. Don't mind any begrudgers you come across, they've nothing better to do than b*tch and moan about someone who's lucky enough to have a job.

I agree with pay cuts, but not to the blatantly obvious media backlash perpetrated by our government. I think such coverage in the media adds to the stalemate. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that rubbing people up the wrong way won't get the desired results. But our government seems to ignore that in their rush to disarm the public service of their weapons of mass destruction.

i get the impression that some in the public sector have adopted the persona of a lady on a date , you wont get anywhere with me unless you say all the right things , unlike the courted lady , the ps do not hold all the keys right now

Warfi

irish_bob wrote: »

i get the impression that some in the public sector have adopted the persona of a lady on a date , you wont get anywhere with me unless you say all the right things , unlike the courted lady , the ps do not hold all the keys right now

that's right, the women and the public sector are to blame for the big mess this country is in :pac:

The best negotiators don't go in with all guns blazing, I don't see why our government should be any different

dresden8

irish_bob wrote: »

i get the impression that some in the public sector have adopted the persona of a lady on a date , you wont get anywhere with me unless you say all the right things , unlike the courted lady , the ps do not hold all the keys right now

So you're saying we should bend over and prepare to receive?

Ahsurelookit

The courted lady my ar$e, the hardest frontline workers in the public service have been treated like desperate, easy lay's. Desperate to hold on to our jobs and made feel guilty for objecting to work longer hours for less pay?

Pollythene Pam

Ahsurelookit wrote: »

God Im sick to the teeth of people having a bash at people in the public sector. Yes I have a job, I went to college to train for my job and am SO grateful to have a job I love and enjoy but I'll tell you one thing, Im tired. All the time, working on average 220 hours+ a month and only get paid for 156 of these (a cutback made by the organisation I work for). Im constantly wrecked and to hear people wanting us public sector workers take more of a wage cut is getting a bit ridiculous. I dont know many people that would work the hours I work, doing the job I do, because its not in everyones nature and some people simply wouldnt be suited to my line of work.

I still live at home with my parents, trying my best to save to one day have my own place. My pay is now considerably worse than when I left college 2 years ago, and theres an incriment block on my wage meaning I will not move up a scale for the forseeable future, so in reality the people most effected are the people on the lower wage scale in the public sector, not those on the top scale, it makes no sense, surely it would be more benificial to hit those on the higher scales. Many of the women I work with have children and are now the main source of income in their households, and I can tell you they are finding it so tough to keep their heads above water.

People give out about the people in admin and clerical jobs in the PS etc but the people like myself who work 22hour shifts in residential homes as care workers seem to get overshadowed and forgotten. I believe that people who are willing to make themselves available to work 365 days a year, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day are entitled to a decent wage at the end of it.


People might start going on about the 3weeks annual leave a year Im entitled to but I can speak for myself and those I work with when I say annual leave means one thing: Much needed sleep time.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! that feels a little bit better.

Sounds like you dont like your job. You should do a bit of misionary work.
It sooth's the soul.

MaceFace

Ahsurelookit wrote: »

God Im sick to the teeth of people having a bash at people in the public sector. Yes I have a job, I went to college to train for my job and am SO grateful to have a job I love and enjoy but I'll tell you one thing, Im tired. All the time, working on average 220 hours+ a month and only get paid for 156 of these (a cutback made by the organisation I work for). Im constantly wrecked and to hear people wanting us public sector workers take more of a wage cut is getting a bit ridiculous. I dont know many people that would work the hours I work, doing the job I do, because its not in everyones nature and some people simply wouldnt be suited to my line of work.

I still live at home with my parents, trying my best to save to one day have my own place. My pay is now considerably worse than when I left college 2 years ago, and theres an incriment block on my wage meaning I will not move up a scale for the forseeable future, so in reality the people most effected are the people on the lower wage scale in the public sector, not those on the top scale, it makes no sense, surely it would be more benificial to hit those on the higher scales. Many of the women I work with have children and are now the main source of income in their households, and I can tell you they are finding it so tough to keep their heads above water.

People give out about the people in admin and clerical jobs in the PS etc but the people like myself who work 22hour shifts in residential homes as care workers seem to get overshadowed and forgotten. I believe that people who are willing to make themselves available to work 365 days a year, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day are entitled to a decent wage at the end of it.


People might start going on about the 3weeks annual leave a year Im entitled to but I can speak for myself and those I work with when I say annual leave means one thing: Much needed sleep time.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! that feels a little bit better.

You are unfortunately what people would call collateral damage.
The real villains of this piece are not the lower paid in the PS but those who sit around all day doing nowt, or jobsworths, or those milking the large salaries.

It is time for people like you (those members of the PS who are struggling because of low wages) to demand reform and ensure that those blackening the name of all in the PS are held accountable.
Unfortunately at the moment, it is very much a Public vs Private sector debate as no one in the PS is willing to stand up and demand their fellow union members accept a fair deal.

Ahsurelookit

Pollythene Pam wrote: »

Sounds like you dont like your job. You should do a bit of misionary work.
It sooth's the soul.

I know my rant came across that way but honestly I love my job, something I know is hard to find these days, I am so grateful to have a job with variety which I look forward heading into even if it does take over a very large portion of my life. My issues lie with the government and some I suppose with the organisation I work for, as a sollution to the overspending theyve lowered the quality of care for the service users I look after, something which I find completly against the supposed "missionary statement and ethics" of the organisation. But thats a whole other rant.

As a 24 yr old girl starting out and trying to find my financial feet missonary work isnt possible right now, my father who has worked for a well known Irish private sector company for over 20yrs depends on the money I hand up too much for me to pick up and leave. So I do see both sides of the argument and I know everyone is struggling, I just hope there is light at the end of the tunnel for this country soon.

Pollythene Pam

There's always hope. It will get better. I remember the 80's. We had to wear shoulder pads for Christ's sake!!!!!!
You're too young to be so pessimistic.
As Brian said on the cross...........

dudara

It's not a public sector vs private sector thing - even though the trade unions are trying to turn it into that.

It's a simple matter of economics. Lots of employers have had to make a decision to cut peoples' wages or else let them go. The government is an employer, just like all others, and it too now has to make that decision.

I am sick and tired of listening to trade unions numpties on the radio every morning who try to turn it into a "them vs us" debate. That's deflecting from the real issue and delaying the government from dealing with it. Those trade union officials are doing more harm than good.

I have sympathy for anyone (private or public) who is facing a pay cut. It's a bit of a kick in the balls. The difference however is that a private company will go ahead and implement it, while the government is unfortunately caught by the balls by the trade unions.

Personally, I do think that the public sector is bloated. It should be trimmed of dead weight, which would permit a decent wage to be paid to the people who genuinely deliver in the PS. I am completely in favour of paying good wages, I only ask that people deserve them.

P. Breathnach

dudara wrote: »

... Personally, I do think that the public sector is bloated. It should be trimmed of dead weight ...

Too general. Where is the bloat?

dudara

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Too general. Where is the bloat?

The bloat is not neccessarily in staff numbers - it can come from poor control on expenditure etc. All organisations have to watch out for these 'bloating' factors. It's just that in my experience, the public sector has had less incentive to do so in the past.

Hootanany

HSE and all the other Depts middle management FAS i could go on & on

jimmmy

Plus the Quangos , the dept of the gaeltacht, public sector pensions...plenty of bloat.

Ahsurelookit

Pollythene Pam wrote: »

There's always hope. It will get better. I remember the 80's. We had to wear shoulder pads for Christ's sake!!!!!!
You're too young to be so pessimistic.
As Brian said on the cross...........

And shoulder pads are back with a bang... they didnt look good then and they dont look good now!!!

Youre right Im too young to be pessimistic, the media are to blame!! Ive been readin so long on boards about how against the public sector posters are but had never commented. So ya know my last few posts have helped by just giving me the chance to get my opinion off my chest! Feels muuuch better Onwards and upwards.

irish_bob

dudara wrote: »

It's not a public sector vs private sector thing - even though the trade unions are trying to turn it into that.

It's a simple matter of economics. Lots of employers have had to make a decision to cut peoples' wages or else let them go. The government is an employer, just like all others, and it too now has to make that decision.

I am sick and tired of listening to trade unions numpties on the radio every morning who try to turn it into a "them vs us" debate. That's deflecting from the real issue and delaying the government from dealing with it. Those trade union officials are doing more harm than good.

I have sympathy for anyone (private or public) who is facing a pay cut. It's a bit of a kick in the balls. The difference however is that a private company will go ahead and implement it, while the government is unfortunately caught by the balls by the trade unions.

Personally, I do think that the public sector is bloated. It should be trimmed of dead weight, which would permit a decent wage to be paid to the people who genuinely deliver in the PS. I am completely in favour of paying good wages, I only ask that people deserve them.

the public - private divide we keep hearing about is a union invention , a phoney war , it is a union trick which aims to create the impression within the public sector that they are under attack , when people feel they are under attack , the lash out regardless of the situation which presents itself

i can only conclude that most ps workers have been riled up by the unions because thier is no way any reasonable person could conclude that it is ps workers who have suffered greatest in this down turn , even after the pension levey , ps workers ( especially at the lower wage levels ) still out earn thier private sector counterparts by at least 30% and all ps workers in ireland outearn thier counterparts in other european countries , countries which are of equal or in some cases greater wealth than us , the unions have thier own agenda , many are idealogues who smell an opportunity to stick it to the establishment , we hear talk of neo liberal and capitalist on a regular basis and its always in a derograty fashion , i suspect thier are but a tiny minority of ps workers who actually want to overthrow the capitalist system and for the country to become a cuba only without the warm weather and cool american cars , perhaps the ps workers need to take a step back and ask themselves , do i really want to be led up the hill by this motley crew of marxists or at least champagne socilists on a last gasp power trip because the harsh reality is , no matter whether mary the nurse or john the guard didnt cause the mess we are in , those who are lending us several hundred million a week do not give a tinkers curse who caused the mess , for them its cold hard commerce and ireland is presently not adding up

wicklowmale

Maybe the government should bring in tax cuts for the private sector in a hope that the PS sector will start to understand why there is so much anger out in the REAL world.

Will someone please answer a very simple question, which no one has either been able to answer or had the balls to.

Why should the private sector take the brunt of job cuts, reduced working hours/days?

We have all taken cuts in our wages Private and Public but the public sector seem to think they should be exempt from everything else.

Maybe if you all take ur finger out of ur **** and smell it you will wake up and realise how irresponsible and unrealistic you all are.

NewDubliner

wicklowmale wrote: »

Why should the private sector take the brunt of job cuts, reduced working hours/days?

Reduced demand for their products and services?