Charge extra for ice-cream in restaurants?

jlang

I don't like cream on my dessert so I always ask for ice-cream instead. Generally not a problem and if they say no, I'll be disappointed but just make sure I don't get cream. The last two restaurants I've been in have given me my ice-cream with no difficulty but then put an extra charge on the bill (without letting me know in advance).

If I'm paying 6.50 or whatever for a slice of tart, I don't think it's too much to think I can get a bit of ice-cream instead of cream without paying an extra 2.00 for the privilege. What's next, an extra charge for gravy?

<end of rant>

the beer revolu

Name and shame, I say!
Restaurants are really going to have to cop on to themselves if they're gonna survive!

mink_man

sickener alright!

PCPhoto

name and shame those restaurants.


so the rest of us can boycott/avoid.

Mr.Boots

They charge extra because icecream costs alot more than cream, and there is vat on it.
2 euro sounds a bit much though
50c or 1 euro is about right.

The Big Red Button

I wouldn't be a bit impressed with that, I probably wouldn't bother complaining but just wouldn't go back to the same place again.

I'm one of those awkward people who's always looking for icecream instead of cream, different sauces and side dishes than what's on the menu, etc. I'm never usually charged extra for any of it.

PCPhoto

Mr.Boots wrote: »

They charge extra because icecream costs alot more than cream, and there is vat on it.
2 euro sounds a bit much though
50c or 1 euro is about right.

theres no need to try justify it..... €6.50 for "tart" is expensive enough so the ice-cream should be with it as an option.

Mr.Boots

PCPhoto wrote: »

theres no need to try justify it..... €6.50 for "tart" is expensive enough so the ice-cream should be with it as an option.

Just to put a figure on it for you,
4 litres of cream cost about 12 euro
4 litres of good icecream costs 35 euro

Davidth88

Mr.Boots wrote: »

They charge extra because icecream costs alot more than cream, and there is vat on it.
2 euro sounds a bit much though
50c or 1 euro is about right.

I can understand the more expensive bit , but can't the Restaurant claim the VAT back ?

I think it's a bit mean , after all I imagine the margin on most puds is pretty high already ......

It's like charging 2.50 or whatever for an expresso , totally stupid money for a coffee ( even in Rome airport an expresso usually a milliion times better than anything you get in Ireland costs 1 euro )

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Just to put a figure on it for you,
4 litres of cream cost about 12 euro
4 litres of good icecream costs 35 euro

So a scoop of icecream is about 30 or 40c rather than 10/13c. So a differntial of 20-25c..... And you think they should charge for that in the context of someone eating a full meal in a restaurant. Aside from any moral argument, its simply bad business to do so.

Reminds me of a time in Il Corvo, Drumcondra (years ago, mind you) where we were entertaining a bunch of about 15 distant relatives from the US. The bread they brought round was stale and when I questioned this, they said that the bread was complimentary anyway :eek:.....! To which I of course commented that the table and chairs were complimentary but that we would hope to rely on them to serve their purpose.

Anyway, the point is that for such a trivial amount where the customer requests an alternative for good reason (ie. not being difficult or contrary) any restaurant should not charge anything additional.

the beer revolu

Mr Boots, one cant help wondering what restaurant you are behind!
One that charges for ice cream, no doubt!

Mr.Boots

the beer revolu wrote: »

Mr Boots, one cant help wondering what restaurant you are behind!
One that charges for ice cream, no doubt!

I dont see what the problem is in charging 50c or 1 euro for icecream.........Maybe have your dessert at home next time?
Vat is 13.5%

Mellor

drkpower wrote: »

So a scoop of icecream is about 30 or 40c rather than 10/13c. So a differntial of 20-25c..... And you think they should charge for that in the context of someone eating a full meal in a restaurant. Aside from any moral argument, its simply bad business to do so.

Most scoops would be alot bigger than what you are suggesting here. But thats beside the point.

Anyway, the point is that for such a trivial amount where the customer requests an alternative for good reason (ie. not being difficult or contrary) any restaurant should not charge anything additional.

So if I want duck instead of chicken with my main course, because I prefer it. I shouldn't be charged. I could understand an alergy, or a like for like item, but preferences don't count in my mind. Nor does an item that is clearly more expensive

Seriously, It costs more, They charge for it. If someone is so tight that this bothers them I suggest that they stop going out for dinner, or get their mammy to buy them a 99 on the way home.

brendansmith

Nightmare situation there OP, i too prefer icecream to cream. I will be vigilent in future.

the beer revolu

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I dont see what the problem is in charging 50c or 1 euro for icecream.........Maybe have your dessert at home next time?
Vat is 13.5%

The OP was charged €2.
The problem is that it is, as evidenced here, seen as small minded and mean. That's not good for business.
Maybe I'll have the whole meal at home - the food is invariably better and better value!

Mellor wrote: »

So if I want duck instead of chicken with my main course, because I prefer it. I shouldn't be charged. I could understand an alergy, or a like for like item, but preferences don't count in my mind. Nor does an item that is clearly more expensive

That's just a stupid argument. We're not talking about changing out a main ingredient - just a condiment. If somebody wanted chips instead of mash would you calculate the cost difference between them and charge accordingly?

Mellor wrote: »

Seriously, It costs more, They charge for it. If someone is so tight that this bothers them I suggest that they stop going out for dinner, or get their mammy to buy them a 99 on the way home.

Come on, restaurants don't make exactly the same margin on everything. Some things are very profitable, some are not. It's swings and roundabouts.

I find it rather strange that restaurateurs are suggesting that people should eat at home! Maybe there's a certain disdain for customers in general !

Given the choice of selling a dessert for, say, €6.50 with a small scoop of ice cream gratis, or not selling one at all, it would be a foolish business person would choose the latter.

drkpower

Mellor wrote: »

So if I want duck instead of chicken with my main course, because I prefer it. I shouldn't be charged. I could understand an alergy, or a like for like item, but preferences don't count in my mind. Nor does an item that is clearly more expensive
.

The correct analogy would be where someone didnt like mushrooms which was served on the side with the main and asked for some other vegetable (that was on the menu and slightly more exoensive) instead. If the restaurant charged me extra id be pretty annoyed.

Mr.Boots

Like i said, icecream is expencive to buy
I also said i think 2 euro is to much
50c or 1 euro is about right.
Imagine 50% of people want icecream instead....Now that would eat into your margin.

It costs the restaurant more so it costs the customer more....simple logic!

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Like i said, icecream is expencive to buy
I also said i think 2 euro is to much
50c or 1 euro is about right.
Imagine 50% of people want icecream instead....Now that would eat into your margin.

It costs the restaurant more so it costs the customer more....simple logic!

Imagine they want crack instead......

They don't, that is the point; it is an occasional customer who will make this request so it has little effect on ultimate margins. But bad word of mouth from a handful of punters can have a big effect. Its simply bad business to charge these minor amounts.

And if 50-6-70& of people start asking specifically for icecream, you might want to think of changing your menu - and then, if someone asks for cream instead, you are saving money and keeping the customers happy. Win win.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Imagine they want crack instead......

They don't, that is the point; it is an occasional customer who will make this request so it has little effect on ultimate margins. But bad word of mouth from a handful of punters can have a big effect. Its simply bad business to charge these minor amounts.

And if 50-6-70& of people start asking specifically for icecream, you might want to think of changing your menu - and then, if someone asks for cream instead, you are saving money and keeping the customers happy. Win win.

Hmmmmm I take your point but...Its a business i know inside out.

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Hmmmmm I take your point but...Its a business i know inside out.

Then listen to the customers.......:pac:

There are many moany gits like me out there that would tell quite a few people about getting stiffed for a €1 over a scoop of icecream. I would say that the lost covers as a result would far out weigh the samlll hndful of people who open their mouth to ask for icecream instead of cream.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Then listen to the customers.......:pac:

There are many moany gits like me out there that would tell quite a few people about getting stiffed for a €1 over a scoop of icecream. I would say that the lost covers as a result would far out weigh the samlll hndful of people who open their mouth to ask for icecream instead of cream.

A business aim is to please its customers and do as much as they can to make them happy, but not to loose money to keep them happy.
I do understand your gripe but maybe think about how things work in your business/place of employment.

themadchef

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I dont see what the problem is in charging 50c or 1 euro for icecream.........Maybe have your dessert at home next time?
Vat is 13.5%

With an attitude like that you won't be in business very long.

Besides, anyone paying 6.50 for a slice of pie should get brain surgery. In fairness €6.50 :eek: unless it's organic, hand rolled wheat, home picked apples and made by genuine umpalumpa's who dance and sing at your table you're getting screwed!

Extras can be a pain in the behind BUT if dropping that charge means that your customers praise you and return the poxy 50c 100's of times over with repeat business and good word of mouth (which you know is priceless) then it's a no brainer in my book...

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

A business aim is to please its customers and do as much as they can to make them happy, but not to loose money to keep them happy.
I do understand your gripe but maybe think about how things work in your business/place of employment.

Sure.
I write off thousands of euros a year to clients in fees charged for various reasons. I do free education seminars for numerous clients that take hours and days to prepare.

Its a much different industry but the point that is relevant to all businesses is that your current clients/customers give you far more business than potential customers. It is also true that something like 4 in 10 customers will tell a friend/colleague of a good customer service outcome while 7-8/10 will tell them of a negative outcome. So, that extra scoop of icecream must be costing you big money if you are willing to risk a few customers being pissed off over.

And if it is a common phenomenon, factor it into your pricing structure. But dont annoy a customer because your pricing structire is inflexible.

Mr.Boots

Ok 6.50 is to much to start then adding 2.00 as the op stated makes it ott.

But would you be willing to pay an extra for a premium brand icecream, 50c/1euro?

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Ok 6.50 is to much to start then adding 2.00 as the op stated makes it ott.

But would you be willing to pay an extra for a premium brand icecream, 50c/1euro?

Tbh, you would expect a premium ice cream with a slice of tart for €6.50. Deserts should never be too expensive - they are an impulse buy and, lets be honest, they are very profit heavy anyyway.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Tbh, you would expect a premium ice cream with a slice of tart for €6.50. Deserts should never be too expensive - they are an impulse buy and, lets be honest, they are very profit heavy anyyway.

Source?

Itake that as a no.

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Source?

Itake that as a no.

Source for what?; that deserts shouldnt be expensive, that they are an impulse buy or that they are very profit-heavy? I'll presume the latter for the moment.

And why does everybody want a "source" for things that anyone with a bit of human experience can reasonably estimate!

A good quality apple tart or other good quality tart from superquinn/butlers pantry which makes 8 slices would be between €12-20. Thats the kind of tart you will get in a regular run of the mill restaurant for €6/7. I presume that can be made in house for substantially cheaper. So lets say max of €12 per 8 slices. Thats €1.50 a slice. I think we already established that a scoop of good icecream would be <50c, cream <30c. So €1.50-2 cost, €6.50 sale is a good margin in any scenario.

So, if you have a diffficulty with that broad estimate, let me know.

Fighting Irish

Instead of breadsticks, i want 3 pints of heinekin while i wait for my meal, oh yeah and i don't expect to have to pay for the 3 pints

kthxbye

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Source for what?; that deserts shouldnt be expensive, that they are an impulse buy or that they are very profit-heavy? I'll presume the latter for the moment.

And why does everybody want a "source" for things that anyone with a bit of human experience can reasonably estimate!

A good quality apple tart or other good quality tart from superquinn/butlers pantry which makes 8 slices would be between €12-20. Thats the kind of tart you will get in a regular run of the mill restaurant for €6/7. I presume that can be made in house for substantially cheaper. So lets say max of €12 per 8 slices. Thats €1.50 a slice. I think we already established that a scoop of good icecream would be <50c, cream <30c. So €1.50-2 cost, €6.50 sale is a good margin in any scenario.

So, if you have a diffficulty with that broad estimate, let me know.

Ok so, i agreed that 6,50 was probably to much for ''Pie''
Take Your example of 20 euro for a tart dividing it by 8 is 2,50 a slice now add in someone to serve you and the space your taking up sitting eating it...then add 13.5% vat.
How much would you like to pay?

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Ok so, i agreed that 6,50 was probably to much for ''Pie''
Take Your example of 20 euro for a tart dividing it by 8 is 2,50 a slice now add in someone to serve you and the space your taking up sitting eating it...then add 13.5% vat.
How much would you like to pay?

Dont be disingenuous.

€20 is what you would pay for something at the very top of the range in Butler's Pantry. Any run of the mill restaurant buying from the butkers pantry will be out of business in days; in fact, any run of the mill restaurant not baking its own tarts would not be a good business. So if we want to recalculate prices on the basis of the cost of flour, water, eggs, apples, cinammon, etc, the cost price of a good homely apple tart per slice will be less than €1/slice. Lets be honest, any restaurant worth its salt will be making its own tarts/pies. If I can do it at home, a barely trained pastry chef should be able to.

So we are talking a cost price range (for pie and icecream) of €1.20 ish to €2 max, witha half decent business coming in at the lower end.

So, dont be dishonest about how (good) restaurants work. Clearly, deserts are profit-heavy. But more importantly, aside from coffee, they are the most discretionary aspect of spending at a restaurant and pricing them high is ultimately self-defeating. For a standard tart and icecream, €6.50 is very much at the high end.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Dont be disingenuous.

€20 is what you would pay for something at the very top of the range in Butler's Pantry. Any run of the mill restaurant buying from the butkers pantry will be out of business in days; in fact, any run of the mill restaurant not baking its own tarts would not be a good business. So if we want to recalculate prices on the basis of the cost of flour, water, eggs, apples, cinammon, etc, the cost price of a good homely apple tart per slice will be less than €1/slice. Lets be honest, any restaurant worth its salt will be making its own tarts/pies. If I can do it at home, a barely trained pastry chef should be able to.

So we are talking a cost price range (for pie and icecream) of €1.20 ish to €2 max, witha half decent business coming in at the lower end.

So, dont be dishonest about how (good) restaurants work. Clearly, deserts are profit-heavy. But more importantly, aside from coffee, they are the most discretionary aspect of spending at a restaurant and pricing them high is ultimately self-defeating. For a standard tart and icecream, €6.50 is very much at the high end.

All im asking is how much you would like to pay for it?
Butlers isnt the top of the range by the way.