15,278 public sector workers earn more than €100,000

optocynic

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The message that optocynic was replying to was mine. You have misrepresented it beyond recognition. If you want to disagree with me, deal with what I said. Don't make things up.

I don't feel he was making things up!
You seem to be of the pipe-dream socialist type. The nice 'People before Profit' bumber stickers... the 'Everyone is of the same worth' vibe..
Nice little slogans... good on t-shirts..

But it is disingenuous. All it feeds is envy.

Why do Irish people hate the successful so much?
Why should they pay out huge lumps of their earnings to subsidise an over-paid public sector?
How is that Fair?

optocynic

Riskymove wrote: »

no I dont think so



if we followed that, there wont be paycuts, would not have been a pension levy etc

in any event there are many different unions representing different areas with varying influence and strength...you;d be surprised how much could be done in certain areas

then again, the main place that unions need to be tackled is in health

Pay cuts are under the3 governments control, since they hold the paycheques...

But reform, requires 'partnership'... and we all know the kind of partnership the unions like... the one-way kind!

Tipp Man

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The message that optocynic was replying to was mine. You have misrepresented it beyond recognition. If you want to disagree with me, deal with what I said. Don't make things up.

Well i apologise if i have misinterpreted you and maybe i quoted the wrong post but you said this didn't you?? And if i have misunderstood it can you explain what you meant by it?

P. Breathnach wrote: »

. I start by questioning whether such high pay differentials as we see in Ireland are socially good. This takes us right back to the starting point of this thread: the fact that so many in the public service have high pay levels. One reason (of several) is that benchmarking brought the rates of senior public servants up to levels comparable with senior employees in the private sector.

P. Breathnach

optocynic wrote: »

I don't feel he was making things up!

Of course he was, because he ascribed to me opinions that I did not express (and that I do not hold).

You seem to be of the pipe-dream socialist type. The nice 'People before Profit' bumber stickers... the 'Everyone is of the same worth' vibe..
Nice little slogans... good on t-shirts..

He misrepresents what I said. Now you try to create a caricature of me.

If you cannot make an argument in an honest way, you really should not be participating in a discussion group.

optocynic

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Of course he was, because he ascribed to me opinions that I did not express (and that I do not hold).



He misrepresents what I said. Now you try to create a caricature of me.

If you cannot make an argument in an honest way, you really should not be participating in a discussion group.

Calm down... don't throw your toys outta the pram!
Are you denying that you are of the socialist persuasion I described?

If so, I apologise, but we both know you tend to lean to the left... slightly!!

And left leaning is not what will save us now!
Fiscal rationality will.

P. Breathnach

Tipp Man wrote: »

Well i apologise if i have misinterpreted you and maybe i quoted the wrong post but you said this didn't you?? And if i have misunderstood it can you explain what you meant by it?

Frankly, I don't see much point in doing so. My words might serve as a starting point for a reasoned discussion, but I don't see that as a likely event here.

Riskymove

optocynic wrote: »

Pay cuts are under the3 governments control, since they hold the paycheques...

But reform, requires 'partnership'... and we all know the kind of partnership the unions like... the one-way kind!

I dont get it

if the government hold the pay cheques dont they have the power to implement reform changes?

optocynic

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Frankly, I don't see much point in doing so. My words might serve as a starting point for a reasoned discussion, but I don't see that as a likely event here.

And the toys hit the floor!!!

P. Breathnach

optocynic wrote: »

Calm down... don't throw your toys outta the pram!
...

This is not a good way to conduct a discussion.

P. Breathnach

optocynic wrote: »

And the toys hit the floor!!!

I follow the well-known advice about arguing with idiots.

optocynic

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This is not a good way to conduct a discussion.

And what would you prefer, that I agreed with you?
You are being petulant!

Try answering the questions.. or are you avoiding?

optocynic

Riskymove wrote: »

I dont get it

if the government hold the pay cheques dont they have the power to implement reform changes?

You would think so, but they seem scared senseless by the bully-boy tactics of a petulant minority in the unions, who get positively horny at the very mention of a strike!

Tipp Man

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I follow the well-known advice about arguing with idiots.

I don't particularly like this comment especially as i apologised if i had misinterpreted you, I gave you an opportunity to explain but you threw it back in my face.

anyway I'll let it go

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't start there. I start by questioning whether such high pay differentials as we see in Ireland are socially good. This takes us right back to the starting point of this thread: the fact that so many in the public service have high pay levels. One reason (of several) is that benchmarking brought the rates of senior public servants up to levels comparable with senior employees in the private sector.

In the above quote you are clearly spouting the typical Union social equality line, now are you prepared to back up your stance or are you just going to ignore it and spit out the dummy

optocynic

Tipp Man wrote: »

I don't particularly like this comment especially as i apologised if i had misinterpreted you, I gave you an opportunity to explain but you threw it back in my face.

I think it was me he was whinging about!
My fault... I was a big meanie!

Tipp Man wrote: »

anyway I'll let it go

In the above quote you are clearly spouting the typical Union social equality line, now are you prepared to back up your stance or are you just going to ignore it and spit out the dummy

..Uh-OH.. now he's gonna be all mad at you too..
Once the panties are unbunched..

Funny as this reaction is, it is common place when arguing with anyone on the union's sides these days. If you make a valid point they either storm off all pissy, or get red-faced and resort to name calling!
The only difference is, here we did the teasing first...
I feel kinda bad about that!
But I was surprised at the childish response we got!

Scofflaw

Can we calm this down a bit, please, otherwise there will be closure and some brief bans, particularly for optocynic.

moderately,
Scofflaw

irish_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

I don't particularly like this comment especially as i apologised if i had misinterpreted you, I gave you an opportunity to explain but you threw it back in my face.

anyway I'll let it go





In the above quote you are clearly spouting the typical Union social equality line, now are you prepared to back up your stance or are you just going to ignore it and spit out the dummy

the unions cloak themselves in language like equality and fair society but thier insistance on seeing the public sector maintain a 20% premium over the private sector at any cost to the tax payer show us that theese words ring very hollow indeed , it is a reflection of our media that union heads are allowed to come across as having legitimite alternatives , thier slogans and soundbites go completley unscrutinized for the most part

jimmmy

To get back to the original posters point"A third of PAYE workers who earned more than €100,000 (46,794 in total) last year are from the Public service. Thats 15,278 public sector workers " etc, I wonder if these people will be on the march today ? Will any of the public sector workers who do have the neck to March hold up placards showing the average public sector pay ( 50k a year according to the c.s.o ) .
To put things in perspective average industrial wage in the worlds superpower economy, America, is 41,000 dollars per year, less than 28k a year. Even they are living beyond their means, judging by the trillions borrowed there. What planet are our unions from ?

irish_bob

jimmmy wrote: »

To get back to the original posters point"A third of PAYE workers who earned more than €100,000 (46,794 in total) last year are from the Public service. Thats 15,278 public sector workers " etc, I wonder if these people will be on the march today ? Will any of the public sector workers who do have the neck to March hold up placards showing the average public sector pay ( 50k a year according to the c.s.o ) .
To put things in perspective average industrial wage in the worlds superpower economy, America, is 41,000 dollars per year, less than 28k a year. Even they are living beyond their means, judging by the trillions borrowed there. What planet are our unions from ?

something else that needs noticing is the union trick of associating public servant pay cuts with reductions in public services , theese are two entirely different things , the unions have been using the vulnerable as pawns in thier battle with the goverment , they talk of how the vulnerable will suffer if services are cut , number one , no one is calling for a cut in services and number two , the unions do not represent the vulnerable

jimmmy

irish_bob wrote: »

something else that needs noticing is the union trick of associating public servant pay cuts with reductions in public services , theese are two entirely different things , the unions have been using the vulnerable as pawns in thier battle with the goverment , they talk of how the vulnerable will suffer if services are cut , number one , no one is calling for a cut in services and number two , the unions do not represent the vulnerable

Good point. RTE in their propoganda was talking about the proposed cuts in services but if pay is cut then that does not mean services.

irish_bob

jimmmy wrote: »

Good point. RTE in their propoganda was talking about the proposed cuts in services but if pay is cut then that does not mean services.

reduced living standards means working harder for less

NewDubliner

irish_bob wrote: »

no one is calling for a cut in services

An Bord Snip has.

catherin26

i am pure mad at people generalising about public service workers i am a special needs assistant who has been working very hard for the past 14 years i do not earn 100000 or anywhere near i earn less than 35000 a year excluding taxes my wage will not increase by any means. i struggled to buy my house and struggle to pay my mortgage which i do so please back off and dont tar us all with the same brush:mad:

jimmmy

catherin26 wrote: »

i am pure mad at people generalising about public service workers i am a special needs assistant who has been working very hard for the past 14 years i do not earn 100000 or anywhere near i earn less than 35000 a year excluding taxes my wage will not increase by any means. i struggled to buy my house and struggle to pay my mortgage which i do so please back off and dont tar us all with the same brush:mad:

Nobody claims everyone in the public service is earning € 100,000 per annum. Nobody claims there are not those who struggle to buy their houses. However, be assured that if you were in the private sector you would almost certainly be worse off, with no pension to look forward to, longer hours, less pay etc. I know several workers in a creche. All can spell and punctuate, and none could dream of being in your lucky shoes, on almost 35 g a year.

stevoman

catherin26 wrote: »

i am pure mad at people generalising about public service workers i am a special needs assistant who has been working very hard for the past 14 years i do not earn 100000 or anywhere near i earn less than 35000 a year excluding taxes my wage will not increase by any means. i struggled to buy my house and struggle to pay my mortgage which i do so please back off and dont tar us all with the same brush:mad:

I agree. im on 31K a year after 10 years in the civil sevice. I have swallowed one paycut this year. im struggling to pay mortgage and pay to raise my child and car and my partner cant get work.

wherever this magic "gravy train" exists, i wish i was on it.

jimmmy

stevoman wrote: »

I agree. im on 31K a year after 10 years in the civil sevice. I have swallowed one paycut this year. im struggling to pay mortgage and pay to raise my child and car and my partner cant get work. wherever this magic "gravy train" exists, i wish i was on it.

I hear what you say and I agree with you. I do not think you should have a pay cut, esp as you have a mortgage + a child etc. I think pay cuts should be directed at average and higher than average earners in the public service, and especially at those on public service pensions, where the average is not far off your income, and its paid to people who generally have their mortgage paid, kids reared etc. Good luck and I know that your partner + yourself , like many other couples, are not in a very flush financial situation. I hope your partner finds work.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Iespecially at those on public service pensions, where the average is not far off your income,

you are now spreading this idea to other threads jimmmy...its really not on

you are making up this average figure and now portraying it as fact

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

... I know several workers in a creche. All can spell and punctuate ...

You hypocrite. Play the ball.

murphaph

stevoman wrote: »

I agree. im on 31K a year after 10 years in the civil sevice. I have swallowed one paycut this year. im struggling to pay mortgage and pay to raise my child and car and my partner cant get work.

wherever this magic "gravy train" exists, i wish i was on it.

Lucky one of you has a secure civil service job then aren't you!

You should know better than most civil servants the value of secure employment when your partner in the private sector can't even find a job to begin with!

stevoman

murphaph wrote: »

Lucky one of you has a secure civil service job then aren't you!

You should know better than most civil servants the value of secure employment when your partner in the private sector can't even find a job to begin with!

but i do know the value of it. in fairness thats the very reason why i joined and whilst all workers in private sector jobs where enjoying great wages and overtime etc in the boom times i stuck with a modest wage in those times. know though my gamble is essence is paying off and my job is secure, but i still dont think as w worker on 31k a year should have to take 2 pay cuts in 1 year in my opinion is very unfair and i beleive its more than a which hunt than anything else. you have to fight your corner here or the goverment will walk all over us.

fair enough they need to cut costs. but why dont they start from the top. i find it hard to swallow bank execs got a 3% pay rise and the best part of the econmy being ruined is between them and the builders and the gutless politicians.

mrgaa1

stevoman wrote: »

but i do know the value of it. in fairness thats the very reason why i joined and whilst all workers in private sector jobs where enjoying great wages and overtime etc in the boom times i stuck with a modest wage in those times. know though my gamble is essence is paying off and my job is secure, but i still dont think as w worker on 31k a year should have to take 2 pay cuts in 1 year in my opinion is very unfair and i beleive its more than a which hunt than anything else.

fair enough they need to cut costs. but why dont they start from the top. i find it hard to swallow bank execs got a 3% pay rise and the best part of the econmy being ruined is between them and the builders and the gutless politicians.

Fair points made - so where would you remove the €4billion public spending from then?