Motion of no confidence

fillefatale

This is all most interesting, when does this motion get heard?

I've met PR, not a pleasant person and lax about his 'campaigns'. KF, well, I never hear about anything shes done.

Chucky the tree

I heard Kim promised paddy a blowjob downstairs in the arts block just around the corner from the observer "office" if he put back the motion. Purple monkey dishwasher.

Like A Fox

lebowskilite wrote: »

To all those who don't think the union does anything, while sat on the nice new sofas in arts, or perhaps studying in the library til 11pm, or when listening to your younger siblings say how much they are looking forward to college safe in the knowledge that USI stuck it to the Green Party enough to defeat fees, just as they did in 2003, and when that grant of yours comes through, and when arguing with the Tierney building you realise, "Holy ****! I've got some rights on this campus that I can stick to these people!" and when you're fukd financially and UCDSU suddenly comes to the rescue, maybe you should stop giving out.

USI had sweet fook all to do with fees being defeated. You should thank the Young Greens for that.

Red Alert

The postgraduate officer has certainly not bothered with postgrads - never even got a circular email from her. Paddy's a nice guy, he certainly does seem to be doing his job.

Riamfada

Red Alert wrote: »

The postgraduate officer has certainly not bothered with postgrads

everyone knows its a step up position, alternatively if you want to stay in the Union and dont get elected to Education why not just take a career launching exec position. Sure they arnt expected to do anything.

Now where is the next USI pissup?

Red Alert

Why am I not surprised?

El Siglo

lebowskilite wrote: »

Yeh, the strategy that UCD spearheaded last year of targeting the greens didn't pull off at all. I remember fees being well on the agenda beforehand. Sure, wasn't it constantly making frontpage news.

Oh ****, wait a second, it was only on the agenda because of the SU campaigns! Newsflash, the population doesn't like students!

Yes I'm sure images like this had something to do with it alright...

"What a ridiculous argument to make, I've never heard something so absurd in my life. Seriously, that actually is a stupid statement to make, so by us complaining about the union we're just little trolls that have nothing better to do? That level of argument is shockingly poor so it is." :D

Erm, get a sense of humour? Giving head to get to the top was mentioned, which was hardly valid, and rather than being a complete sap about it, I made a lickle jokie. Sorry I demeaned your "side" of the argument.

You're so funny, ever considered career with an RTE comedy programme?;)

I respond with a defence of the union, and therefore I'm attacking you, labelling you as some kind of enemy? I don't see the causal relationship there.

I wouldn't expect you to see the relationship.

My point was that the SU does a whole lot for students behind the scenes. If you don't think it does enough then here's the killer counter-argument: It's a democratic organisation, so get involved!

This is what gets me, everything is "behind the scenes", ever hear of tranparency? Democratic my left one, its about as democratic and the Afghan elections. I won't get involved, because I'm already involved as a member, how much more involved should one get to actually see some dividend?

To say its cronyist is kinda odd. Anyone can get involved, and no one is shunned if they show an interest. Its true that to get elected to a sabbat position ppl will willingly be social whores for an entire year, and thus it'll seem like cronyism when they get elected. The fact is in those cases they got elected because they made a lot of friends who campaigned for them. That isn't cronyism, it's democracy, and every democratic institution has that feature.

As Robert Fisk said last night regarding the media, I'm going to say it to you; you're living in disneyland if you believe that. It's cronyism, because you're making friends with the same kinds of people and because of general apathy towards the union, it's not that difficult to get elected if you've "made friends" with enough knobs.

Someone also mentioned class parties. Note that I never mentioned class parties, and never defended the union on those grounds.

Your point being?

Also the concentration on research was mentioned. I completely agree that UCD concentrates on research, using undergrads for status and non-research masters students for income. I hardly see how this is a reflection on the union, though.

So what the hell is the union there for? It's a university, people come to learn, how the feck can the union not involve itself in how it's members (every single one of them) are there to learn. This is ridiculous, one of the original foundation of the union was based on teaching quality and the poor infrastructure available to students in the Terrace, now times have changed but we're still facing the same problems. I don't care about buses and shite but the shear poor quality of undergraduate education has to be addressed, especially now with unemployment facing every student. Is the union only there for us students to make sure we have agood time?

You may have seen an email from Martin Butler today about the return of the no. 10 bus to campus. In it he mentions it was a 3-way negotiation. In reality, the SU were the only party interested in bringing it back to campus, and they did. Is there a poster telling ppl it's back? No.

You have, and personally I don't care for the 10, it's a rotten slow bus that takes an incredibly convulted route. However, it would be nice for the union to deal with the problem of binge drinking and violence etc... as a result as opposed to lumping Dublin Bus with the problem every night. Can you imagine what it must be like to drive a bus with drunken abusive louts every night, often at risk of personal attack?

So all I'm saying is, the union does do a lot, and people often write it off simply because it's an easy target. It's much easier to burn a house down than to build one, and if you think the union is shite, you should probably bring that up at council, or in a referendum, or with a sabbat, or with your rep, etc.

Nobody is burning the union house down, it's called criticism, people learn from criticism, if there was no criticism then there would be no change, however even criticising the union on boards I can see none of points will make a scrap of difference given the level of inertia exhibited by your defensive posts.

Chances are you won't make a massive difference, but that's not the fault of the union, that's the balance of power in ucd.

Yes it is the fault of the union, I was told myself and in fact have experienced it before: students have more power than they think. Again you've just written off any chance of change because of a 'power balance', amazing isn't it. The world can have a; female PM, black president, same-sex marriage, a cancer cure from curry, and yet trying to change UCD seems to be impossible. I think Chris Rock had a rather apt observation a few years back which might be applicable:
"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon.' Need I say more?"

errlloyd

While taking neither side let me add to this.

Everyone on the "Anti-SU" side seems to be saying the SU can't do anything of power and therefore why should we care, thats fine. However some of the "Anti-SU" side are saying "The SU can't do anything so we should oppose it's existence" that isn't fair. The SU is probably just as frustrated by its lack of power as you are.

The SU does some pointless things, I think the training weekend is a pharce. And the bus from town to campus costs 15,000 grand a year and I am willing to bet benefits the same 30-60 people each night it runs, is that fair?

But some of things they do are good. I personally am up for free condoms whenever they're going, but as you're mostly hardcore boardsies I'd say you don't benefit too much, cough pot calling kettle Obama cough.

Anyway absolutely all of that is irrelevant, literally the only power the SU has is as a "Students Union", I.E we're meant to be united by it. If it doesn't unite us its pointless, and if you refuse to work with it it will never unite us.

So in conclusion, its not Brady or Redmond that makes it set sail for phail, its all you dissenters who spite the SU cause it wastes a bit of money here and there.

WeeBushy

errlloyd wrote: »

While taking neither side let me add to this.

Everyone on the "Anti-SU" side seems to be saying the SU can't do anything of power and therefore why should we care, thats fine. However some of the "Anti-SU" side are saying "The SU can't do anything so we should oppose it's existence" that isn't fair. The SU is probably just as frustrated by its lack of power as you are.

I think people are less anti-SU and more "nothing"-SU. I don't oppose them, I just couldn't give a rashers about them.

errlloyd wrote: »

But some of things they do are good. I personally am up for free condoms whenever they're going, but as you're mostly hardcore boardsies I'd say you don't benefit too much, cough pot calling kettle Obama cough.

Ah yes, anyone who posts on the internet is a geek who has never had sex. Forgot that. And what did you just do btw :rolleyes:

errlloyd wrote: »

Anyway absolutely all of that is irrelevant, literally the only power the SU has is as a "Students Union", I.E we're meant to be united by it. If it doesn't unite us its pointless, and if you refuse to work with it it will never unite us.

So in conclusion, its not Brady or Redmond that makes it set sail for phail, its all you dissenters who spite the SU cause it wastes a bit of money here and there.

You're working under the premise that all students want to be united under some sort of union.

errlloyd

WeeBushy wrote: »

You're working under the premise that all students want to be united under some sort of union.

Yeah, its based on the pretense that we all have some common aims. A nice campus, discounts on stuff we need and health support?

Do you agree with this pretense.

WeeBushy

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah, its based on the pretense that we all have some common aims. A nice campus, discounts on stuff we need and health support?

Do you agree with this pretense.

Sure I do, doesn't mean I support (or oppose) an ineffective SU to try and get it for me though.

Het-Field

Like A Fox wrote: »

USI had sweet fook all to do with fees being defeated. You should thank the Young Greens for that.

I thank them for nothing. What campaign did they engage in ???? At waht Oireachtas meeting, or cabinet meeting did they speak. At what point did John Gormley come out against 3rd Level Tuition fees ? It was only under the new programme for Government that they took the populist route to curry public favour.

The Young Greens are supporting incompetence, and cronyism. They are the youth wing of a party which supports "Planet Bertie", while having a leader who first too the piss out of it. They have sat back and watched the development of NAMA, the Anglo Irish scandel, the reticenece to cut expenditure, the advocacy of anti competitive carbon taxes to satisfy their climate change agenda. They have also stood over the costly decisions to raise VAT, ignore the need to ajust corporation taxes, offered no solutions or alternatives to the mess that is FAS, offered no alternative financial document to the cohorts in crime in FF,and have been silent on issues like public sector unrest.

Its no wonder they are going the way of the PDs, and they were corrupted far faster. They are a waste of space party who should be ashamed.

Riamfada

Het-Field wrote: »

I thank them for nothing. What campaign did they engage in ???? At waht Oireachtas meeting, or cabinet meeting did they speak. At what point did John Gormley come out against 3rd Level Tuition fees ? It was only under the new programme for Government that they took the populist route to curry public favour.

The Young Greens are supporting incompetence, and cronyism. They are the youth wing of a party which supports "Planet Bertie", while having a leader who first too the piss out of it. They have sat back and watched the development of NAMA, the Anglo Irish scandel, the reticenece to cut expenditure, the advocacy of anti competitive carbon taxes to satisfy their climate change agenda. They have also stood over the costly decisions to raise VAT, ignore the need to ajust corporation taxes, offered no solutions or alternatives to the mess that is FAS, offered no alternative financial document to the cohorts in crime in FF,and have been silent on issues like public sector unrest.

Its no wonder they are going the way of the PDs, and they were corrupted far faster. They are a waste of space party who should be ashamed.

Completely off topic but I have to say this post makes sense. Anyone who dosnt see the logic behind this post is chosing not to. I think everyone is this country is waiting for the Greens to go and its suprising for such a self righteous group not to have fallen on their swords by now but when they do fees will be back on the table because students will not save them and as Het Field has pointed out, they have proved themselves incapable of living in the same country as us.

fillefatale

Het-Field wrote: »

I thank them for nothing. What campaign did they engage in ???? At waht Oireachtas meeting, or cabinet meeting did they speak. At what point did John Gormley come out against 3rd Level Tuition fees ? It was only under the new programme for Government that they took the populist route to curry public favour.

The Young Greens are supporting incompetence, and cronyism. They are the youth wing of a party which supports "Planet Bertie", while having a leader who first too the piss out of it. They have sat back and watched the development of NAMA, the Anglo Irish scandel, the reticenece to cut expenditure, the advocacy of anti competitive carbon taxes to satisfy their climate change agenda. They have also stood over the costly decisions to raise VAT, ignore the need to ajust corporation taxes, offered no solutions or alternatives to the mess that is FAS, offered no alternative financial document to the cohorts in crime in FF,and have been silent on issues like public sector unrest.

Its no wonder they are going the way of the PDs, and they were corrupted far faster. They are a waste of space party who should be ashamed.

Ridiculous statement, the YGs spoke out against fees all this time and got it passed in the new programme for govt, just because it originated from a party you dislike you can't accept that.

El Siglo

fillefatale wrote: »

Ridiculous statement, the YGs spoke out against fees all this time and got it passed in the new programme for govt, just because it originated from a party you dislike you can't accept that.

This is the problem with having an affiliation or some loyalty to a political party, it blurs the facts. The facts were the Greens and FF were desperate to stay in power and need to maintain their middle class base (which is nearly all of the country since the mid '90s), it was tokenism on the part of FF in taking the issue of fees out of the new programme for government. Frankly arguing the effect of YG on this is like arguing for everyone to not eat meat so that you limit CH4 as a greenhouse gas, it's not going to make a difference if everyone still drives SUVs, YG's effect was minimal to say the least. Fees were abandoned by a government desperate to stay in power, it helped both sides to take them off, it was by no means anything due to the USI, YG etc... just a group of old farts wanting to keep power. I would have respected the Green Party prior to 2007 but since then, they've sold themselves out and by the next general election they will go the way of the dodo and the PDs, kaputt!

Riamfada

Im by no means a mod here. But this thread took a turn off topic about 10 posts ago. Can we please get back to giving out about unionites :D

El Siglo

Grimes wrote: »

Can we please get back to giving out about unionites :D

Damn unions!
"You can't treat the working man this way. One day, we'll form a union and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and get corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!" Can't beat classic Simpsons!

Het-Field

fillefatale wrote: »

Ridiculous statement, the YGs spoke out against fees all this time and got it passed in the new programme for govt, just because it originated from a party you dislike you can't accept that.

When the hell did the Young Green's speak out ? I dont recall any national press releases ? I dont recall hearing Barra Rowntree talk about anyrthing other then temporary nationalisation of the banks. What was done by the Young Greens is of negligible importance. I suggest you look at the facts. I somehow doubt you could find me any press coverage that the young greens got for the fees issue. The facts speak for themselves, and are not in your favour.

The new Progreaame For Government was a FF exercise. They took it off the table in a populist move. I suggest you talk to the Young PDs, who used a Harney statment to browbeat the PD Parlimentary Party of the day to remove the issue.

Raphael

This is all very interesting, but the point stopped being discussed days ago. Locked.