2 dogs just not getting on.

Madame Razz

Tearing my hair out on this and would appreciate any advice.

I have a Corgi, my OH has a Alsatian/terrier type cross(not 100% sure what he is tbh!), both are male and unneutered, tho the Corgi will be neutered in the coming weeks.

It is a bloody nightmare. We do our best to keep them apart but anytime they do encounter each other they are stuck in each other within minutes. Corgi does start it, but other dog needs only the slightest encouragement. Have had vet visits already as a result of bad bites. Corgi is actually quite good natured(for a corgi!) and pretty good with other dogs(even male) usually. But he HATES my OH's dog. And My OHs dog HATES him right back. They are currently in the back garden together and bar a growl or two they are ok, but I can guarantee you if I was to go out there now all hell would break loose within 5 minutes. Due to a change in circumstance they are now going to be around one another a lot more often and I really don't know how we will manage.

Can anybody advise??

star-pants

Two things -
one being the neutering, they could both be very territorial and protective (of their respective owners) and don't appreciate another dog encroaching. Neutering *usually* reduces this type of aggression and tension so the sooner you get it done probably the better. If there's a female in heat around they're technically in competition with each other so they'd probably fight then too.

the other being you keeping them apart -- I know they fight etc, but you need to exercise control over them (probably harder with the aggressiveness and not wanting either to get hurt). Not letting them say hello to each other and hiding them from one another won't help matters, because they'll sense from you/your OH tension/apprehension at them meeting and they'll feed from that. If say the corgi thinks you're scared - he'll be all 'protective mode' and vice versa.

Just reread there and you said they're ok out the back but if you go out there all hell will break loose. That's probably part protective of your corgi and part picking up on any nerves you are having at the thoughts of them fighting. As hard as it is, you need to stay calm in these situations, you need to go out calmly, wander round, ignore them for a few mins do whatever you're doing, then maybe sit down and let the corgi/other dog come over and say hi. In doing this they're seeing that when they're calm, they get attention and praise.

My two dogs are grand together, occasionally the 'play fight' will escalate as someone will have hurt the other and I have to intervene. I take them apart and dominate both (by putting my hand on the back of their neck and gently press them down to submission). After a few mins of this, I talk gently to them, not angry not screaming, then I let up and just pet them, and then allow them to mix again, but I'm there as a mediator and after a minute or two, they're usually fine again. Not fool proof and not always easy if they're having a big fight but it's helpful if you can do it. Obviously if your dogs are having a massive biting fight it's more dangerous for you to get involved, you don't want to be bitten by mistake, but you have to try and get their attention. But do be careful.

Give them praise when they're good together, maybe have something to distract them from each other, say a treat each and praise whilst they're calm.
When you have two or more dogs, one or more will want to be the dominant one, it's natural, but you have to try and be the dominant one and hopefully if they see that they won't be fighting for it as much. And hopefully the neutering will help. It also takes a while for two dogs to adjust to living together, I was lucky my b*tch &pup only took a week or so to get on. They still have their odd fights but mostly it's ok. Hopefully your two will learn to get along as well.

Madame Razz

star-pants wrote: »

Two things -
one being the neutering, they could both be very territorial and protective (of their respective owners) and don't appreciate another dog encroaching. Neutering *usually* reduces this type of aggression and tension so the sooner you get it done probably the better. If there's a female in heat around they're technically in competition with each other so they'd probably fight then too.

No other dogs in the area. Both dogs should be neutered but the OH will take some convincing to get his dog done. I would have had mine done ages ago(only have dog since June) but he was on a series of antibiotics for the neck bites and the vet said to leave it a few months as a result.

the other being you keeping them apart -- I know they fight etc, but you need to exercise control over them (probably harder with the aggressiveness and not wanting either to get hurt). Not letting them say hello to each other and hiding them from one another won't help matters, because they'll sense from you/your OH tension/apprehension at them meeting and they'll feed from that. If say the corgi thinks you're scared - he'll be all 'protective mode' and vice versa.

Just reread there and you said they're ok out the back but if you go out there all hell will break loose. That's probably part protective of your corgi and part picking up on any nerves you are having at the thoughts of them fighting. As hard as it is, you need to stay calm in these situations, you need to go out calmly, wander round, ignore them for a few mins do whatever you're doing, then maybe sit down and let the corgi/other dog come over and say hi. In doing this they're seeing that when they're calm, they get attention and praise.

Tbh there usually isn't time to stay calm or do anything else because they just go for one another. Your suggestions are good in theory but the two of them are so vicious when they are together most of it just isn't practiceable. I agree they should be socialised together more but we have tried that and it just resulted in injuries

My two dogs are grand together, occasionally the 'play fight' will escalate as someone will have hurt the other and I have to intervene. I take them apart and dominate both (by putting my hand on the back of their neck and gently press them down to submission).

If I tried this I would be less a hand:)

Give them praise when they're good together, maybe have something to distract them from each other, say a treat each and praise whilst they're calm.
When you have two or more dogs, one or more will want to be the dominant one, it's natural, but you have to try and be the dominant one and hopefully if they see that they won't be fighting for it as much. And hopefully the neutering will help. It also takes a while for two dogs to adjust to living together, I was lucky my b*tch &pup only took a week or so to get on. They still have their odd fights but mostly it's ok. Hopefully your two will learn to get along as well.

Right now they both want to be dominant. We did think that in time they would find their way but it's a couple of months now and nothing has changed. Actually the corgi is much worse since he got hurt by the other dog.

We try to avoid treats and praise for each dog when they're together as it results in more fights:rolleyes:

Neutering looks to be the only option really I think.

Paul91

get them both neutered - but it will take a few months for the testosterone to get out the system. My Boxer/Lab was very home aggressive, had him done, calmed down so much - i really didn't want to have him done, i think it's a man thing, but unless your going to breed the male your better of

Madame Razz

Yep, I really think neutering is the only way. OH is being a 'man' about it btw:p:rolleyes:

star-pants

Well the advice still stands when they're neutered, they may not suddenly be best buds when neutered either but hopefully it will help them anyway.

Madame Razz

star-pants wrote: »

Well the advice still stands when they're neutered, they may not suddenly be best buds when neutered either but hopefully it will help them anyway.

I don't expect it to happen instantaneously, but even if it reduces the aggression and friction by even a small amount it will be worth it. The situation as it is is just untenable.

why so serious?

I have two dogs who act in the exact same way as you are saying, one is a labrador and the other is an old english sheep dog, they are both pretty old now, almost thirteen years old now so they don't fight as much anymore but not to say they haven't stopped. The labrador was always the biggest problem, he was the bully, he really hated the other dog and spent most of his time watching him. Unfortunately there is not much you can do, once dogs don't get on they never will and they will always give you a certain amount of grief, I'm shore getting them neutered will help somewhat but I think you would be lying to yourself by saying it will solve the problem because trust me it won't. The only advice I can give you is to be much more firm withyour dogs and especially the one who is starting the fights. Have you tried tying your dogs as a punishment (seperated obviously) I find a lead and collar to work wonders on dogs, really shows them who's in charge. Hope this helps.

Madame Razz

We're as firm as we possibly can be with both of them but once they get stuck in they pay no attention and a bucket of water is the only thing that seperates them!! You should see my back garden, loads of buckets of water lined up and at the ready just in case!:rolleyes:

What do you mean by tying??

lrushe

Nuetering will be a big part in solving your problem but I would also look at how much excerise the dogs are getting, frustration and too much energy will also make two dogs (especially two males) fight, if possible excerise the two dogs together one leash in each hand, I can't think of a faster way to help two dogs become buddies than walking together! As mentioned above if the two dogs do tend to fight in your presents I would have a look at how you are around them, do you conciously or unconciously favour one or other, dogs are v.sensitive to even the slightest body language change. Are there any toys or food left around to fight over, that could also trigger a fight

Madame Razz

They both get lots of exercise, usually individually as when they are walked together they fight and it causes such a scene and really intimidates other people in the vicinity.

Basically they fight in any and every scenario!! Even now, tho they're on their own, they're still growling and eyeing one another all the time.

2 dogs with big egos:rolleyes:

lrushe

Keeping them seperate like you are is only prolonging the agression, take them walking (in an isolated field if necessary) muzzle them, keep them on the leash. It takes so much energy to stay in that state of agression, if they are walking as well it will be even harder. I think you have to realise just how much hard work on your behalf it will take to change a dogs behaviour, especially if they have been behaving this way for a while, there is no quick fixed and consistancy is the key

Madame Razz

lrushe wrote: »

Keeping them seperate like you are is only prolonging the agression, take them walking (in an isolated field if necessary) muzzle them, keep them on the leash. It takes so much energy to stay in that state of agression, if they are walking as well it will be even harder. I think you have to realise just how much hard work on your behalf it will take to change a dogs behaviour, especially if they have been behaving this way for a while, there is no quick fixed and consistancy is the key

Well to be fair they are walked individually due to circumstances aswell which need not be gone into on here. But when they are walked together it is usually on walks that are miles long, and they still go for each other, no matter how tired either of them are.

I am aware that there is no quick fix for this, I am aware that it will take a lot of work on our parts and believe me we are putting in the work. I do realise that it has been a long road and will continue to be. I've kept dogs all my life, but this is the absolute worst situation that I've ever encountered, and I really thought that by now things would have marginally improved, as they usually do, but unfortunately not in this case.

why so serious?

What do you mean by tying??

collar and chain and tie both dogs seperatly to something like a pole for about an hour or two, just make shore there is no walls or anything that they could try and jump over for obvious reasons, I've always found this method to work great, they understand you are in authority and respond much better.

Allgäuerin

I saw last week a tv show on german tv with a couple on with the exact same issue what u have. They got it sorted with an trainer who work first separate with the dogs. He had a chain in his hand and layed down a sausage on the floor. Everytime when the dog was trying to get the sausage he throw the chain on the wooden floor (big effect of the noise!!!!). The dog learned this way that this an inadmissible behavior. As i said the trainer was doing this with both dogs separate. At the end when the both dogs were together and one of them was starting a fight up, the owner throw the chain on the wooden floor and they stopped immidently growling! It took the owners a few weeks (always watching the dogs with the cain in the hand ready to throw) but at the end it worked out. The dogs are not best friends now, but at least the live togehter without fighting!;)

iguana

Madame Razz wrote: »

Yep, I really think neutering is the only way. OH is being a 'man' about it btw:p:rolleyes:

I don't want to be confrontational about this but the biggest scientific study ever done on this shows absolutely no reduction in dog on dog aggression after neutering. I'm not saying don't do it, but don't expect it to make any difference as far as this problem is concerned.

This is a behavioural problem, so the best way to approach it is from a behavioural standpoint. Have you and your bf moved in together already? If not then only introduce the dogs to each other on neutral ground, in a park that is not either of their usual park. Initially for short periods. Be firm in stopping their negative behaviour but also be quick to reward them if they are not aggressive. Let them learn to associate the other dog with good things happening.

Slowly increase their contact with each other, let them get used to being around each other on walks and once they are move slowly toward getting them used to each other on each other's territory again with treats and rewards for good behaviour. They may never like each other, they could have a personality clash, but they can learn to tolerate each other if you work hard at it.

Madame Razz

Yes, we do live together. And tbh, regardless of the dog issue I want to get my guy neutered asap for health reasons/benefits as much as anything else

iguana

Madame Razz wrote: »

And tbh, regardless of the dog issue I want to get my guy neutered asap for health reasons/benefits as much as anything else

That's fine, I'm not your bf, I have no problem with anyone wanting to neuter their dog. But don't expect any behavioural changes in the dog afterward, because there is no scientific evidence that it will happen. Neither of my male dogs are neutered and they aren't even remotely aggressive. Aggression is a behavioural problem and needs to be tackled with behavioural training.

This article may be helpful as it has some suggestions about dogs with "sibling rivalry." Though your situation is different as the dogs have come from "2 packs" becoming 1. http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00316.htm