Feedback about Soccer

BuffyBot

Now, I've just deleted 13 posts from people who seem incapable of heeding my previous post.

Hopefully that will be the last..

Dub13

Jazzy wrote: »

*stop the spammers from taking over threads. Simply tell them to cop on and if they continue, ban them from the thread. (can that be done?).

I brought this up before on one of the reviews,I think it would be a good idea and would be a good option between a yellow card and a forum ban.I would see it as very localized targeted action,X user is causing trouble on the LFC thread but is fine on the rest of the forum.To me it makes sense to ban him from the thread.

To answer your question,a thread ban cant be done technically but I don't think this should stop us.So it would take a element of responsibility from the banned user not to post on a thread after the thread ban has been issued.If they breach the thread ban we could multiply the thread ban and make it a forum ban,so for example..

X user banned from posting in the LFC thread for 2 days,he ignores the ban and posts again we simply multiply his ban by 5 and its now a forum ban.So he now gets a 10 day forum ban.I don't see us having to use the forum ban option to much and I like the fact that the user has some responsibility.

Sherifu

Dub13 wrote: »

I brought this up before on one of the reviews,I think it would be a good idea and would be a good option between a yellow card and a forum ban.I would see it as very localized targeted action,X user is causing trouble on the LFC thread but is fine on the rest of the forum.To me it makes sense to ban him from the thread.

To answer your question,a thread ban cant be done technically but I don't think this should stop us.So it would take a element of responsibility from the banned user not to post on a thread after the thread ban has been issued.If they breach the thread ban we could multiply the thread ban and make it a forum ban,so for example..

X user banned from posting in the LFC thread for 2 days,he ignores the ban and posts again we simply multiply his ban by 5 and its now a forum ban.So he now gets a 10 day forum ban.I don't see us having to use the forum ban option to much and I like the fact that the user has some responsibility.

The mods in After Hours do this. Sometimes it's heeded and sometimes not. The poster is given a chance to cop on, if they persist then hammer time. I would be in favour of this style of doing things. Example from AH.

The other two suggestions so far in this thread have been tweaking the yellow to red card ratio and the black card. I'm not sold at all on the black card idea. The last thing we need is to make the charter more complicated.

therecklessone wrote: »

I'll risk sticking my dead above the parapet and exposing myself to more criticism here, because it is unfair on Des and alan to have to defend themselves on this thread when the thread is about moderation of the forum.

Neither of the lads are soccer mods and neither deserve to be grilled.

I made the call on whether their posts amounted to back-seat modding. None of the other soccer mods have questioned my decision, and an Admin has reviewed it and judged it fair.

The exchange was clearly two friends having a laugh with each other...I might be a dirty fascist power hungry Nazi moderator, but I am not devoid of a sense of humour, and can recognise when an exchange such as this does no harm.

No complaints from me here. My reply earlier was very much tongue in cheek. The lads did you no favours but it was pretty funny. Something the forum could use a bit more of. There shouldn't even have been mention of bans for the lads but this is the point we're at with the current rules sadly.

CHD wrote: »

Whats this all about, the Soccer forum is grand. People are just pissed off because they got banned out of there own stupidity or there is people who don't agree with them on the forum so they think these people are trolls, they react to the people and get infracted.

Lets ban all discussions on everything.

Mods are doing a good job. We need a Chelsea mod though

You wouldn't by any chance happen to know anyone interested and answering to that description?

I would reply to the first part of your post too but i'm not sure what you're saying.

CHD

Sherifu wrote:

You wouldn't by any chance happen to know anyone interested and answering to that description?

Nope!

Sherifu wrote:

I would reply to the first part of your post too but i'm not sure what you're saying.

I am saying that there is nothing wrong with the forum. People are getting banned for breaking the rules. You called someone Fat, thats a bannable offence now so shouldn't be any complaints. The people complaining about the forum are the ones who break the rules. I'm not having a dig at you, just using it as an example. The charter at the moment should be kept as is and hopefully by the end of the season you will see a change in childish behaviour in the Soccer Forum. The week bans for stupid comments will cop people on. I hope!

MagicMarker

How can you say the people complaining are the ones breaking the rules? The person who started the thread didn't!

I'm all for people being banned for making stupid, offensive, childish comments. Banning people for minor things is what people are complaining about!

Sherifu

CHD wrote: »

Nope!

CHD wrote: »

I am saying that there is nothing wrong with the forum. People are getting banned for breaking the rules. You called someone Fat, thats a bannable offence now so shouldn't be any complaints. The people complaining about the forum are the ones who break the rules. I'm not having a dig at you, just using it as an example. The charter at the moment should be kept as is and hopefully by the end of the season you will see a change in childish behaviour in the Soccer Forum. The week bans for stupid comments will cop people on. I hope!

That's what I thought you were saying alright. As I said already Pat's weight problem is not the issue here. It's a bannable offence all of a sudden without any discussion on it. Not really the way things should have been handled imo but that's what we have. You say the charter should be kept as is, I say it shouldn't be kept. Lets put it to the forum and see what people say if the mods are insisting to keep it. You hope and the mods hope it will work out, past events have shown differently. Rather than going on about the current situation and bans(Thanks to BuffyBot for stearing the thread back on course), i'm more interested in suggestions from posters. There have been very good ones already, lets hear some more.

CHD

There doesn't need to be a discussion on if abuse of someone should be a bannable offence. If you call me a retard in a match thread your getting banned/infracted. If someone does this about a personality in Football they should be banned/infracted too. The weeks ban for this is perfect and should make people think twice and eventually cut it out.

You say ''past events have shown differently''. I think if the current charter is kept as is and given the whole season it should improve the place, it might need a few tweaks and a little more leniancy but a whole big discussion on the rules again is not needed imo.

therecklessone

Sherifu wrote: »

That's what I thought you were saying alright. As I said already Pat's weight problem is not the issue here. It's a bannable offence all of a sudden without any discussion on it. Not really the way things should have been handled imo but that's what we have. You say the charter should be kept as is, I say it shouldn't be kept. Lets put it to the forum and see what people say if the mods are insisting to keep it.

Let's have some clarity on this please:

Are you suggesting we remove the offence of abuse of personalities entirely, or merely saying we should not issues bans for instances of it, while accepting it is worthy of infraction?

What about treatment of repeat offences?

DeVore

Perhaps a "delete without comment" policy for minor issues... infract for repetition and ban for repeated infractions?

DeV.

therecklessone

DeVore wrote: »

Perhaps a "delete without comment" policy for minor issues... infract for repetition and ban for repeated infractions?

DeV.

Three issues spring to mind DeV:

1. Record keeping, on an active forum with a number of mods...when we did operate a more lenient approach repeat offenders slipped through the net. How do you propose we get around that?

2. As evidenced above re. back-seat modding, we still get challenged as to why one comment gets infracted and another gets deleted.

3. I used to adopt that policy until I found more than half the people who received the benefit of the doubt paid little or no heed to the friendly warning they received.

I'm starting to think the nature of football support precludes many people from seeing in anything other than black and white, which tends to drive point #2.

Villain

I don't like some of the rules that are in place but I was around when the forum was closed altogether and I understand that it needs tight controls.

I think the only answer is more mods really or even temp mods for big matches. Mods have real lives so if Utd V Pool happens to be on 2pm on a Sunday and not all mods are around and a few things get posted without any action it can turn into a free for all, so if mods could be appointed that will be around and don't support each team it might help.

I know that might not work very easily but I'm sure the mods could find 2 or 3 people to step in for the big games and news stories?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

5starpool

therecklessone wrote: »

Three issues spring to mind DeV:

1. Record keeping, on an active forum with a number of mods...when we did operate a more lenient approach repeat offenders slipped through the net. How do you propose we get around that?

2. As evidenced above re. back-seat modding, we still get challenged as to why one comment gets infracted and another gets deleted.

3. I used to adopt that policy until I found more than half the people who received the benefit of the doubt paid little or no heed to the friendly warning they received.

I'm starting to think the nature of football support precludes many people from seeing in anything other than black and white, which tends to drive point #2.

This is why I suggested a user profile note that only mods can see and the user doesn't need to be aware of. I still think it would be useful, but it seems I was the only one that thought so.

Sherifu

CHD wrote: »

There doesn't need to be a discussion on if abuse of someone should be a bannable offence. If you call me a retard in a match thread your getting banned/infracted.

This is a site wide boards rule and one i've never had a problem with.

CHD wrote: »

If someone does this about a personality in Football they should be banned/infracted too. The weeks ban for this is perfect and should make people think twice and eventually cut it out.

Have no problem with the way things were wrt this in soccer. Disagree about the weeks ban doing anything to cut it out.

CHD wrote: »

You say ''past events have shown differently''. I think if the current charter is kept as is and given the whole season it should improve the place, it might need a few tweaks and a little more leniancy but a whole big discussion on the rules again is not needed imo.

A browse through feedback threads shows the kind of reactions tough clampdowns brought about. I am not asking for a 'whole big discussion on the rules'. I appreciate that soccer is one of the tougher forums to mod. Most of the rules have a good reason behind them, the implementation of the rules are in question. I saw a problem. Others have too. We brought the issue here. If other good suggestions come out of it the mods can decide to adopt them or not as happened already re thread warnings.

therecklessone wrote: »

Let's have some clarity on this please:

Are you suggesting we remove the offence of abuse of personalities entirely, or merely saying we should not issues bans for instances of it, while accepting it is worthy of infraction?

What about treatment of repeat offences?

I thought I was clear that I have no problem with the infraction. Whether I agree with it is another story... I know the line has to be drawn somewhere even if I doubt in my case anyone was mortally wounded or cared I subconsciously substituted in Fat for Pat. We don't want these things escalating or starting flame wars. That's fine. I can accept that. No argument about the infraction from me as I said in my initial thread.
The treatment of repeat offences: Is that not covered by yellow cards leading to a forum ban? Or are you saying if you give a warning and it happens again?

DeVore wrote: »

Perhaps a "delete without comment" policy for minor issues... infract for repetition and ban for repeated infractions?
DeV.

This style of modding for soccer is ideally what I would like to see happen. I also suggested edit windows to allow users to take back posts in the heat of the moment. As therecklessone says there are practical difficulties with it. If profile notes are possible to implement there may be something there.

Villain wrote: »

I don't like some of the rules that are in place but I was around when the forum was closed altogether and I understand that it needs tight controls.

I think the only answer is more mods really or even temp mods for big matches. Mods have real lives so if Utd V Pool happens to be on 2pm on a Sunday and not all mods are around and a few things get posted without any action it can turn into a free for all, so if mods could be appointed that will be around and don't support each team it might help.

I know that might not work very easily but I'm sure the mods could find 2 or 3 people to step in for the big games and news stories?

This is worthy of consideration. As it is the extra mods brought in to soccer have improved the forum, greater presence in big match threads etc. One problem brought up in previous feedback threads, possibly lost in the noise, are what has been called above posters 'spamming' match threads. A small number of posters hijacking a thread and preventing any reasonable discussion. The thread banning is a really good suggestion to stop this happening.

5starpool wrote: »

This is why I suggested a user profile note that only mods can see and the user doesn't need to be aware of. I still think it would be useful, but it seems I was the only one that thought so.

Is this possible in vbulletin?

tbh

5starpool wrote: »

This is why I suggested a user profile note that only mods can see and the user doesn't need to be aware of. I still think it would be useful, but it seems I was the only one that thought so.

Under Section 3 of the Data Protection Acts, you have a right to find out, free of charge, if a person (an individual or an organisation) holds information about you. You also have a right to be given a description of the information and to be told the purpose(s) for holding your information.

You must make the request in writing. The person must send you the information within 21 days.

Under Section 4 of the Data Protection Acts, you also have a right to get a copy of your personal information. This applies to all types of information -for example, written details about you held electronically or on paper, photographs and CCTV images. You are also entitled to know where the information was obtained, how it has been used and if it has been passed on to anyone else. All you need do is write to the person or organisation holding the information. You need not quote the Data Protection Acts, but it is a good idea to do so. Your letter might read something like:

Dear ...
I wish to make an access request under the Data Protection Acts 1988 and 2003 for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer or in manual form. I am making this request under section 4 of the Data Protection Acts.


You should also include any additional details that would help to locate your information - for example, a customer account number or staff number. You may be asked for evidence of your identity. This is to make sure that personal information is not given to the wrong person. When requesting some types of record, such as credit history or Garda records, it may also be useful to provide a list of previous addresses, previous names and your date of birth. You may be asked to pay a fee, but this cannot exceed €6.35.

Once you have made your request, and paid any appropriate fee, you must be given the information within 40 days (most organisations manage to reply much sooner).

therecklessone

Sherifu wrote: »

Or are you saying if you give a warning and it happens again?

I am saying that.

leninbenjamin

DeVore wrote: »

Perhaps a "delete without comment" policy for minor issues... infract for repetition and ban for repeated infractions?

DeV.

God no. Deleting without comment is one of the most retarded things a mod can do. How the hell are users supposed to know what's expected of them? At the very least the user should be informed that their post was deleted...

Sherifu

therecklessone wrote: »

I am saying that.

The same way other repeat offences are treated across boards. The punishment increases. In this case if there's a warning given, then it's an infraction, then it's a ban. It doesn't have to be a specific warning aimed at a user either. For example a warning like this in a match thread reminds everyone to take it easy with nicknames. The responsibility is with the posters after being given fair warning. Possibly make the mods lives easier?

leninbenjamin wrote: »

God no. Deleting without comment is one of the most retarded things a mod can do. How the hell are users supposed to know what's expected of them? At the very least the user should be informed that their post was deleted...

I think a general on thread warning as above is better for everyone. Deletion & notification are extra work.

Kirnsy

Dub13 had a great idea about on thread warnings and bannings and i noticed therecklessone put the idea to good use on the arsenal liverpool thread so fair play im glad some of the constructive feedback has been applied. hopefully soccer will keep improving as a forum.

LuckyLloyd

Why should you be allowed to refer to someone (whether it be Pat Dolan or Frank Lampard) as fat? Why should you be allowed to mire a thread in tit for tat back and forth tribal posting? Why should your definition of "banter" be considered to set the standard for the whole forum?

I'm very tired of the soccer forum, and threads like this only compound such feelings.

ArmaniJeanss

Des wrote: »

Calling someone "Whiskey Nose", well not only is it abuse, it's also fairly old, probably funny the first time someone typed it, twenty years ago, but imbeciles continually posting it should be over on F365 or some other bollix forum. Same goes for FSW, Fat Frank, Fat Dolan or whatever other childish moniker people choose to use for these people. Jaysis folks, act like adults. Name calling is for the playground.

The other reason it needs to be harshly treated is because, as noted above, "Whiskey Nose" soon becomes "Whiskey Nosed Cúnt". And that is not acceptable in any shape or form.

Are any of these really that insulting, other than the last example? (and calling someone a kunt should always be unacceptable).

Pat Dolan seems to thrive on Fat Pat at this stage (I've genuinely seen him open another Mars Bars with a smile whilst Rovers fan called him that name); Fat Frank is used by Chelsea fans as a term of affection. Whiskey Nose is much the same. Liverpool fans were singing 'He's just a Fat Spanish Waiter' with glee in my job last Tuesday after the Pool/MUFC match. Calling Neil Warnock 'Colin Wanker' was started by his own Sheffield Utd fans and wouldn't be considered a major insult.

Modding these as terms of abuse is riduculous as imo as they've reached the stage where they are like "Old Big Ead" for Brian Clough, 'The Giraffe' for Jack Charlton, Tony 'Donkey' Adams, Norman 'Bite your legs' Hunter, Goikoetxea as 'The Butcher of Bilbao' and loads more. Maybe once they were meant as an insult, but now they've entered into the lexicon of football.

Would 'Old Big Ead' be an infraction nowadays?

Nicknames, often slighly insulting, are an integral part of football.

Sherifu

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why should you be allowed to refer to someone (whether it be Pat Dolan or Frank Lampard) as fat? Why should you be allowed to mire a thread in tit for tat back and forth tribal posting? Why should your definition of "banter" be considered to set the standard for the whole forum?

I'm very tired of the soccer forum, and threads like this only compound such feelings.

ArmaniJeanss has put it fairly well above. If you're tired maybe take a break. This thread isn't an attack on the mods of soccer. If you don't think anything positive in the form of suggestions has come out of this then fair enough. We'd all like to improve the soccer forum and make things better for users & mods alike.

Oh, my 7-day ban has just been lifted in time for the Pool game. Happy days \m/

I saw Pat Dolan on Setanta a few minutes ago. I don't know if it's the suit but he looks quite slim. :eek:

Well, slim for him anyway.

The Recliner

People can say what they like about Soccer, the forum, its posters and its moderators

But this week has shown that despite all our petty differences that there is a community there and it is a good one

DeVore

I agree Recliner... I think the most fitting tribute to Eirebhoy would be to emulate the way he, passionately, supported his club. He cheered for his team, he didnt mock the others.

There are 150 people on the forum right now... I wonder how anyone can say what we have been doing is "failing". Perhaps we should canvas the userbase and ask their opinion of the way the forum is working. Its a mature enough community and uniquely protected from the "web-vote-stuffing" phenomenon.

DeV.

Sherifu

DeVore wrote: »

I agree Recliner... I think the most fitting tribute to Eirebhoy would be to emulate the way he, passionately, supported his club. He cheered for his team, he didnt mock the others.

Hear hear. There's a fair amount of mocking going on now in the Fulham-Liverpool thread but it's to be expected after a bad result. All within the rules but i'll be taking a step out of that thread. Delighted Celtic won today.

DeVore wrote: »

There are 150 people on the forum right now... I wonder how anyone can say what we have been doing is "failing". Perhaps we should canvas the userbase and ask their opinion of the way the forum is working. Its a mature enough community and uniquely protected from the "web-vote-stuffing" phenomenon.

This is my problem with the latest change apart from it being draconian. There was a problem with the forum? Did anyone ask the userbase if there was a problem? If parts of your charter are being ignored maybe it isn't the users fault. I see the weeks ban as part of a new forum announcement. Does that mean that rule is being pushed ahead with? Disappointing if so.

Kinetic^

CHD wrote: »

Whats this all about, the Soccer forum is grand. People are just pissed off because they got banned out of there own stupidity or there is people who don't agree with them on the forum so they think these people are trolls, they react to the people and get infracted.

This. The forum works fine and is very easy to interact with other users on without getting in to baiting/trolling.

If parts of the charter are being ignored then it is the users fault. You read the charter and then interact with people on the forum according to it.

Xavi6

Just to keep people up to speed, we (the mods) aren't neglecting this thread. It's just been a bit of a hectic week with unfortunate recent events and a couple of the lads are away for the weekend.

We are however discussing a few things privately with DeV, and have gotten plenty of good feedback from this thread.

jank

therecklessone wrote: »

The exchange was clearly two friends having a laugh with each other...I might be a dirty fascist power hungry Nazi moderator, but I am not devoid of a sense of humour, and can recognise when an exchange such as this does no harm.

Xavi6 wrote: »

One man's joke is another man's personal abuse.

This is where the problem lies. Interpretation of the rules and what exactly is "abuse"?

Sherifu

Xavi6 wrote: »

Just to keep people up to speed, we (the mods) aren't neglecting this thread. It's just been a bit of a hectic week with unfortunate recent events and a couple of the lads are away for the weekend.

Thanks for the update, not easy to know what's going on in the background.

Xavi6 wrote: »

We are however discussing a few things privately with DeV, and have gotten plenty of good feedback from this thread.

If there's room for one more i'd suggest a thread every now & again along the lines of 'How can we improve Soccer?' as seen in other forums to get more of these ideas out in the open. Some cracking suggestions in this thread.

DeVore

Sherifu, are you coming around to the idea of "network brain" wisdom?? My my....

Yes, there has been some good feedback, and the mods and I are talking behind the scenes. I'm going to close this thread in probably 24 hours just to protect it from falling into being a 40 page ramble/bitchfest or something. But plenty has been taken note of from it and a decent amount of "light" produced.

DeV.