Tax

hamhamwich · 27-10-2009 12:01am #1

Hi guys

Are we supposed to be paying taxes from online poker winnings in Ireland?

phantom_lord · 27-10-2009 12:03am

nope. it's just gambling/luck anyway. like winning the lotto.

mdwexford · 27-10-2009 12:19am

Yep, pm sent with the Moneybookers account you're to send it to, 30% btw.

Ollieboy · 27-10-2009 12:25am

why? did you win something? IWF?

Yes, 80% to me....

for 500 quid I can give you a professional answer and fill out a tax return for you.

Ollie

ACCA

hamhamwich · 27-10-2009 12:54am

Thanks for the quick replies.

I have had no big win. Just a few hundred a month.

Lurker1977 · 27-10-2009 12:56am

Yea, you and every other poster frequenting these forums.

hamhamwich · 27-10-2009 1:31am

Lurker1977 wrote: »

Yea, you and every other poster frequenting these forums.

Almost 300000 hands on NL .5/1 with BB/100 0.21.:eek:

6 tables about 4 hour a day 5 days a week.:D

Easy money.:P

Whyno · 27-10-2009 11:35am

Winnings

Macspower · 27-10-2009 12:15pm

We are actually lucky in this way.. Was speaking to some dutch players and their system is very strict...

they pay tax on thier winnings at the end of each callender month... now the unfair bit for them is you can only write off your losses from the current month against your winnings for that month...

So say you have a big cash in Jan for 50 k and you loose 100 k in feb... you pay tax ont he 50 k from jan and nothing for feb... but you cant carry it forward to next month etc...

They were amazed that we didn't have to pay tax...

TommyGunne · 27-10-2009 12:52pm

Ugh. Thats so sick. No wonder there are so many Dutch guys over here.

ollyk1 · 27-10-2009 1:12pm

Macspower wrote: »

We are actually lucky in this way.. Was speaking to some dutch players and their system is very strict...

they pay tax on thier winnings at the end of each callender month... now the unfair bit for them is you can only write off your losses from the current month against your winnings for that month...

So say you have a big cash in Jan for 50 k and you loose 100 k in feb... you pay tax ont he 50 k from jan and nothing for feb... but you cant carry it forward to next month etc...

They were amazed that we didn't have to pay tax...

How could you call yourself a professional poker player and stay resident in Holland pay that sort of income tax? lol dutch people.

ArmaniJeanss · 27-10-2009 1:16pm

ollyk1 wrote: »

How could you call yourself a professional poker player and stay resident in Holland pay that sort of income tax? lol dutch people.

So if Minister Lenihan changed the rules in the next Budget (and I assume it would only take a tiny change in the relevant law to make Winnings taxable and Losses not Write-offable) how many pros here would be in a position to either move to another country or move to a different career?

hamhamwich · 27-10-2009 1:34pm

Whyno wrote: »

Winnings

I forgot to mention 30% rakeback. That is the only reason that I make any money.

After reading a bit more about it I think it has to do with poker been seen as gambling. If poker was changed to a sport then Minister Lenihan would be looking for his cut.

IrishKestrel · 27-10-2009 1:52pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

So if Minister Lenihan changed the rules in the next Budget (and I assume it would only take a tiny change in the relevant law to make Winnings taxable and Losses not Write-offable) how many pros here would be in a position to either move to another country or move to a different career?

Firstly - there is no tax liability from "Winnings from betting, lotteries, sweepstakes or games with prizes" .... so no tax on your poker winnings or from staking someone in poker. (Section 613(2) of the relevant tax legislation).

Poker is taxable in one of 2 ways (income tax or a tax on the rake) in the US, UK, Switzerland, Netherlands and a lot of other countries. It won't take too long for there to be a legislative change here in Ireland. Michael McDowell already tried to implement regulatory legislation over casinos and poker when he was Minister for Justice.

So......poker professionals in Ireland should be planning for the impact this will have on their livelihood (and their bankroll) - especially the high profile ones. And copies of shows like "Late Night Stars of Poker" will raise the profile even more. It's only a matter of time ..... so let's enjoy the tax-free income while we can.:):)

IrishKestrel · 27-10-2009 1:57pm

TommyGunne wrote: »

Ugh. Thats so sick. No wonder there are so many Dutch guys over here.

Being in Ireland doesn't really help them. They are still liable for tax when they bring their winnings back to the Netherlands .... if they are Dutch taxpayers. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tony_Montana · 27-10-2009 6:36pm

This country is already enough of a rip off republic without this happening. Shocked to hear that Dutch people have to pay Tax on POKER madness:eek:

DrJFF · 27-10-2009 6:38pm

I heard Eastgate had to pay a crazy amount of tax on his ME win, i think it was like 5million, could be wrong tho

Macspower · 27-10-2009 8:32pm

one guy also mentioned that unless you are caught once or win a ME of some sort they will prob never know... but if they do get you you owe backtime + interest.. he said most low stake players don't declare

NewApproach · 27-10-2009 9:39pm

DrJFF wrote: »

I heard Eastgate had to pay a crazy amount of tax on his ME win, i think it was like 5million, could be wrong tho

Cant understand why he didnt, at some stage between July and November, sort out his tax affairs so he didnt have to pay most of his winnings back in tax

robinblinds · 27-10-2009 10:27pm

Register yourself as a business and claim the tax back on running this business.

IrishKestrel · 28-10-2009 2:03pm

robinblinds wrote: »

Register yourself as a business and claim the tax back on running this business.

Not sure I understood your point ... but

a) No need to register as a business in Ireland - because the income is tax free.

b) If there was a change in the legislation - registering as a business (presumably you mean as a sole trader) would give you very limited benefit as you are still subject to Income Tax @ 41% plus levies.

c) Far better, under these circumstances, to register a limited company. Gives you far more options to plan your tax affairs (12.5% Tax on Profits) and claim back expenses related to going to poker tournaments (nationally and internationally) - particularly if you want to expand into side opportunities such as staking, coaching, creating Virtual Training videos, etc. Still.... for now, there is no need - income is tax free which is far better.

Lurker1977 · 28-10-2009 2:14pm

IrishKestrel wrote: »

c) Far better, under these circumstances, to register a limited company. Gives you far more options to plan your tax affairs (12.5% Tax on Profits) and claim back expenses related to going to poker tournaments (nationally and internationally) - particularly if you want to expand into side opportunities such as staking, coaching, creating Virtual Training videos, etc. Still.... for now, there is no need - income is tax free which is far better.

You would still have to deal with Close Company surcharge, and there may be some issues with allowable expenses. It's been a while since I even looked at Income Tax tho tbh so I am probably 100% wrong on the allowable expenses part.

robinblinds · 28-10-2009 2:31pm

IrishKestrel wrote: »

Not sure I understood your point ... but

a) No need to register as a business in Ireland - because the income is tax free.

b) If there was a change in the legislation - registering as a business (presumably you mean as a sole trader) would give you very limited benefit as you are still subject to Income Tax @ 41% plus levies.

c) Far better, under these circumstances, to register a limited company. Gives you far more options to plan your tax affairs (12.5% Tax on Profits) and claim back expenses related to going to poker tournaments (nationally and internationally) - particularly if you want to expand into side opportunities such as staking, coaching, creating Virtual Training videos, etc. Still.... for now, there is no need - income is tax free which is far better.

Yeah I meant when/if the regulation comes.

Limited Company would be the way to go I think...as a consultancy.

IrishKestrel · 28-10-2009 4:00pm

Lurker1977 wrote: »

You would still have to deal with Close Company surcharge, and there may be some issues with allowable expenses. It's been a while since I even looked at Income Tax tho tbh so I am probably 100% wrong on the allowable expenses part.

Agreed - the Close Company Surcharge would have to be dealt with (unless the company was structured 'creatively') - but this would not need to be a major challenge.

The allowable expenses 'regime' got to be a little less attractive when the Civil Service allowable expenses rates (which Companies can benchmark themselves against) were cut by 25% earlier this year. However, there is still FAR more flexibility on allowable expenses for a registered company (wholly & necessarily incurred) than for a sole trader (wholly, exclusively & necessarily incurred).

Tax

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