LICENCES ARRIVED!!!

deerhunter1

Rovi wrote: »

Front of complete document for my bolt-action .22 Sako:
The actual 'Firearm Certificate' is embedded in the page, at the bottom left corner.


...and the back of the same document:



A few points of note:
I applied for 1000 round of ammunition, and was issued 750.
I ticked the 'Silencer' box, and there's no sign of anything about that anywhere that I can see. I've had an authorisation letter for my silencers for years.
On the back of the 'Firearm Certificate', you can see the text "...a Rifle by SAKO of .220 Inches 0.73 bearing the serial number...". The "0.73" bit had me puzzled, until I looked at the shotgun one (see below). This looks like boo-boos are still easily inserted into this shiny new system (I'm pretty sure that's a 'translated' shotgun gauge there), and there's no differentiation between chamberings with the same (or similar) nominal calibre.



Close-up of the Mossberg shotgun Licence (front):


...and back:


I applied for this as a "12 gauge", but that appears to have been translated (approximately) into 'metric inches'; 12 gauge = 0.729 inches.
I also applied for 1000 rounds of ammunition, and was granted 750.


Have to go now, more thoughts will follow shortly.

that 0.729 is on all first issue licences, in a while they will probably re-issue you with new licences without the 0.729 and you will more than likely have the 's' on the licences for your moderator. This has happened to all the people that I know who were issued with licences.

bigred

Got my grant letter today "for a 10Mm Shotgun by MOSSBERG". I take it the 10Mm is supposed to be the calibre?!? Strange given 12GA was clearly marked on my app. Has anyone seen this one before? Will give the district office a call tomorrow about it, but will be out to pick up the shotgun regardless.

This was a totally new app for my first shotgun, submitted 7th Dec. Heard nothing from them between then and now.

Cass

Congrats on the license. Ring and check up on that 10mm though. You'll probably need an FCA2 to amend the details of the license, but you can collect the gun and fire away until the amended license comes through.

Rovi

deerhunter1 wrote: »

that 0.729 is on all first issue licences, in a while they will probably re-issue you with new licences without the 0.729 and you will more than likely have the 's' on the licences for your moderator. This has happened to all the people that I know who were issued with licences.

Thanks for reminding me, I should have posted long ago: new licences were indeed issued with the '0.73' nonsense removed and the beautiful 'S' added.

bigred wrote: »

Got my grant letter today "for a 10Mm Shotgun by MOSSBERG". I take it the 10Mm is supposed to be the calibre?!? Strange given 12GA was clearly marked on my app. Has anyone seen this one before? Will give the district office a call tomorrow about it, but will be out to pick up the shotgun regardless.

This was a totally new app for my first shotgun, submitted 7th Dec. Heard nothing from them between then and now.

Yep, congrats on getting the licence, but that 10Mm stuff sound very odd.
As ezridax says, get it amended with an FCA2 form.

bigred

Rovi wrote: »

Yep, congrats on getting the licence, but that 10Mm stuff sound very odd.
As ezridax says, get it amended with an FCA2 form.

Just rang the district office. They'll update it to 12GA and send out a new one! Could the system actually be working?!? :cool:

Kryten

No its not working. Forms in on the 14 September, Recieved acknowlegments a week later, then nothing. Still no grant/payment letters. Even after numerous phone calls, still getting the run around. Recieved the standard BS refusal letter for the 9mm, but nothing yet on the unrestricted stuff.

rrpc

Kryten wrote: »

No its not working. Forms in on the 14 September, Recieved acknowlegments a week later, then nothing. Still no grant/payment letters. Even after numerous phone calls, still getting the run around. Recieved the standard BS refusal letter for the 9mm, but nothing yet on the unrestricted stuff.

Remember that you're deemed to have been refused if you have not got a decision within three months of submitting your application. And you've only thirty days after that to sppeal.

By my reckoning (based on the date of your acknowledgments) the three months ran out on the 21st December and your last date for appeal was 20th January.

However, for the unrestricted stuff, there's nothing preventing you applying again.

Bananaman

rrpc wrote: »

However, for the unrestricted stuff, there's nothing preventing you applying again.

Nothing preventing you from applying for a restricted license for the same firearm again either, provided you held a license prior to the epoch.

B'Man

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

Nothing preventing you from applying for a restricted license for the same firearm again either, provided you held a license prior to the epoch.

B'Man

Sorry, should have made that clear. Was derailed by the mention of the dreaded 9mm.

Kryten

Rang District office again the other day and the lady said that everything is sorted and that my payment letters should be sent out from Garda HQ fairly soon. (not getting the warm fuzzy feeling on this one)

As regards the 9mm. I will wait to see if a few more court cases are won, then I will re-apply.

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

Remember that you're deemed to have been refused if you have not got a decision within three months of submitting your application..

I know i've said this before and before anyone says here he goes again, i still think this is a flawed method of "informing" people.

How many lads are still waiting on their licenses/applications to be processed. If they were to surrender the firearms because they believe they have been refused, the guns are sold quickly (i know it doesn't always work this quick but bear with me) then after the sale and the other party applying for their licenses, the original owner gets his grant letters. It causes an awful lot of headaches for both the Gardai and firearm holders.

How difficult is it to simply write and inform the applicant that the license has been refused and eliminate all this guess work. Maybe down the road when everyone has been licensed (that are goin to be) then on the next renewal in 3 years impliment the "no response after 3 months = refusal" policy. Alot of people are getting their licenses back within the time frame but what of the lads that are over the deadline, have gotten no word, but do not know if they are refused or simply held up due to amount of applicants in a district or some other clerical delay.

Opinions, comments, (shut the f*** ups )

rrpc

I think it's a reflection on the reality of life that some times we've had people waiting for ever for a decision and a licensing officer unwilling to make one. At least this way, the decision is taken out of their hands after three months.

Not perfect, but neither is life.

Darr

problem with that RRPC Is I know people who have applications in 2 months and have not even received an acknowledgment letters of yet , they have been in touch with FO and everything is in hand!!! .. so when does the 3 months start from the time you get the letter or the time you drop them in ( if this the case get a receipt from them when you do )

Darr

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

I think it's a reflection on the reality of life that some times we've had people waiting for ever for a decision and a licensing officer unwilling to make one. At least this way, the decision is taken out of their hands after three months.

Not perfect, but neither is life.

I understand some will want to enact the 3 month policy rather than make a decision, but saying it is not perfect is no excuse. If people with firearms have not received their receipts, grants, etc within the 3 months and go to sell the guns when in fact they have not been refused but merely held up then the Gardai have a new application for the same firearm from another applicant and the original owner still has his application in stasis/processing, whatever. Now the owner has to decide to follow through with the sale and re-apply for a new firearm or cancel the sale. Then he has to explain to the Gardai that he thought he was refused and actually wants his firearms and the buyer then has to cancel his application through no fault of his own.

I could go on, and on, and on will things that can mess up on 3 different fronts. You get the point. All this paperwork (the Greens will love this) will not be needed only one letter of refusal instead of 9 pages of application.

I'm going off on a tangent here.

The point is after 3 months the system realises the application has not been passed. It automatically issues a letter stating that the 3 month processing period has expired without a favourable outcome and as a result the application is deemed as refused. Then the necessary appeal, surrender, sale of the firearms begins, but at least the applicant knows. What till you see how many people out there will be in possession of unlicensed firearms through no fault of their own. Its a logistical nightmare that has not fully erupted. People getting a knock on the door by Gardai asking why they haven;t surrendered the guns after 3 months when the lad 2 doors down waited 4 months but eventually got his and without a call from the Gardai.

Rant over (thank God, i was getting on my own nerves there )

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

I understand some will want to enact the 3 month policy rather than make a decision, but saying it is not perfect is no excuse. If people with firearms have not received their receipts, grants, etc within the 3 months and go to sell the guns when in fact they have not been refused but merely held up then the Gardai have a new application for the same firearm from another applicant and the original owner still has his application in stasis/processing, whatever. Now the owner has to decide to follow through with the sale and re-apply for a new firearm or cancel the sale. Then he has to explain to the Gardai that he thought he was refused and actually wants his firearms and the buyer then has to cancel his application through no fault of his own.

Firstly, according to the law, they have been refused. How they deal with that is up to them, but they have a right to appeal that refusal to the district court and they should.

Secondly. at the very least, if somebody has not carried out their duties according to the law, they'll be in the very embarrassing situation of having to explain that to a judge and a courtroom agog with reporters.

The point is after 3 months the system realises the application has not been passed. It automatically issues a letter stating that the 3 month processing period has expired without a favourable outcome and as a result the application is deemed as refused. Then the necessary appeal, surrender, sale of the firearms begins, but at least the applicant knows. What till you see how many people out there will be in possession of unlicensed firearms through no fault of their own. Its a logistical nightmare that has not fully erupted. People getting a knock on the door by Gardai asking why they haven;t surrendered the guns after 3 months when the lad 2 doors down waited 4 months but eventually got his and without a call from the Gardai.

It's everyone's responsibility to deal with their own applications and make sure that they don't run into trouble. If you're running close to the three months deadline then you should be on to your Garda station explaining that you may have to go to court if they don't hurry up.

Was it you that was talking about a neighbour who hadn't bothered to fill in his forms? That guy deserves to have a knock on the door and I'm sure there are many others like him.

As for sending out letters; if we can't get them to make a decision in the prescribed time frame... :rolleyes:

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

Firstly, according to the law, they have been refused.....

This is my point. I'm not arguing for the sake of it (honestly) but say a person's application has been held up and runs over the 3 month period, then there is the storage, surrender, sale of the firearms in keeping with the law (3 month- no grant = refusal). They sell their guns then get their LATE grant letters. They appeal the refusal when in fact one was not issued and the licenses has been granted, but were delayed. As you said yourself in an ideal world this would not happen but its not ideal. Using that reasoning why impose this 3 month deadline if the Gardai cannot in ALL instances apply the law fairly.

Secondly. at the very least, if somebody has not carried out their duties according to the law, they'll be in the very embarrassing situation of having to explain that to a judge and a courtroom agog with reporters.

This ties in with what i've been saying (re: above)

Was it you that was talking about a neighbour who hadn't bothered to fill in his forms? That guy deserves to have a knock on the door and I'm sure there are many others like him

It was and he does. He is the (hopefully) rare exeption to the rule. Most if not all firearm owners that intend to keep the firearms are moving heaven and earth to ensure their applications are in on or before time. After this it is mostly out of their control and they should not have to resort to storage, selling or appeals when the situation can be avoided.

As for sending out letters; if we can't get them to make a decision in the prescribed time frame... :rolleyes:

I understand completely where you are coming from, and as with all debates here they are somewhat moot as the power to alter, defer, postpone, etc certains aspects of the law that are not 100% workable is outof our hands and the Gardai's also. The problem is the Gardai are the ones in the firing line, they are the ones that have to make decisions, they have to fight appeals, collect firearms enforce the law, but the reality is they are no more prepared for some aspects (the 3 month refusal) as most of the shooters are. The minister enacts the law, and seems uninterested in how its real world application is going as long as it looks good on paper. I would have thought the Gardai would have stood up and said something before now as (again) they are the ones that must deal with the public and the subsequent fallout of any delay in processing applications. They done it when the new system came online. They told everyone with an application submitted on time that your extension will be honoured after its expiry date because of the delay in having the new Pulse system fully operational. So why not for this?

Odysseus

ezridax wrote: »

It was and he does. He is the (hopefully) rare exeption to the rule. Most if not all firearm owners that intend to keep the firearms are moving heaven and earth to ensure their applications are in on or before time. After this it is mostly out of their control and they should not have to resort to storage, selling or appeals when the situation can be avoided.

I don't about him being the expection, in total I think I have spoken to about 7 people about this in the pst few weeks about this. When I'm in a field and someone enters its I break open the O/U unload and walk over to identiy myself and what I doing there with the owners permission, between this and knocking on some doors to try gain further permissions, I had the "what's the story with the new licences". I have explained my understanding and the extentions, those people have done nothing about the extentions. One land owner said to me, sure I don't bother reading that stuff.

Now these are older lads so maybe that is something to do with it. I explained the situation to a chap who drove a tractor in where I was shooting the other, and it was a case of I better get down to the station then. I was left with the understanding that his extention is already out. Maybe its an age thing as these guys wouldn't be using places like here to get info, but maybe that is a generalisation on my behalf.

Cass

Odysseus wrote: »

.....Maybe its an age thing as these guys wouldn't be using places like here to get info, but maybe that is a generalisation on my behalf.

Age has alot to do with it. When i dropped my applications in my FO said i was the first to do so. He asked would i mind letting him take copies to show others how to fill them in. I agreed so long as "sensitive" info is blanked out. Still when i call down (even 3 weeks ago) there was an "ould boy" asking why his renewal/license hadn't arrived. Usual confusion ensued. €80 fee - he thought this was per year and wanted to pay it at the station. Had no idea what an FCA1/FCA2 is. The list goes on. This though is lack of knowledge not ignornace as such. These lads don't understand the new system (for whatever reason) the lad that lives near me has my experience, help, etc and still won't do it.

That is the difference, but i know what you mean about the age thing. I'm under no illusion there are lads out there that have gone over their extensions but chances are the do not ujse boards.ie and have no communication with others that do. So if you find one lad in an area in this position you will find at least half a dozen others in the same position (most likely lads he shoots with).

paul 12g

finally got word from my local garda,s just to say he was processing my form,s and that i should have word next week on them "ps local garda had me froms for 3 weeks " ... and he said he put a note wit them just to say he knows me and that im OK had dealins with him from me car being stolen last year ..... so all going welll mite be in wit a bit of luck:)

paul 12g

Rovi wrote: »

Got two in the post a few minutes ago, scans will follow shortly.

how long did it take to get the new licences

Rovi

paul 12g wrote: »

how long did it take to get the new licences

See post #9 (posted 27-10-2009):

Rovi wrote: »

These two went in the post this day last week, Tuesday 20th.

Exactly a week.


This was before the Post Offices could take the payments, so it was all done via the post.

gavlaw

im waiting a month for my licence

Cass

I think it was mentioned previously in this thread but it varies from district to district. Factors such as quantity of applicants, how quickly the application is passed up the line, etc all have an effect on the speed at which they are processed.

shannonpowerlab

Damn!!!!


I got a license but has a wrong serial number!!!!!

Cass

Say hello to your new friend, the FCA2.

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/FCA2%20(english).pdf

Use it to amend incorrect details on your licenses.

shannonpowerlab

damn! damn! damn!:mad:

2 weeks delay thanks to 1 friggin digit on the serial number!!!

shannonpowerlab

Just dropped in the FCA2 with my license...

Let's see how fast they'll turn it around.

charlie10

regards to the licence i sent in my form 8 days ago along with the reciept of gun, gun cabinet(i know i didint need one by law but just as well to have it)course forms etc etc...two days later got a phone call to say everything looked ok as i only put it through the letter box and didnt meet the FO himself . couple a days later got a leter saying it was being processed then following day letter to say it was granted!!! payed for it yesterday!! now thats what i call service . i had been hearing horror stories of people waitng months and months so i am chuffed to bits

north cork area

paul 12g

Rovi wrote: »

See post #9 (posted 27-10-2009):

Exactly a week.


This was before the Post Offices could take the payments, so it was all done via the post.

were do you pay for your licences now that you cant pay for it in the post office or can you ????/

Cass

Before the Post Offices came online, and shortly after the new licensing system was up and running you could only pay for them by sending off your grant letter to the main post office in Clare.

Now all Post offices are online and up and running. When you get your grant letter you go down to the PO and they scan the bar code on the letter, you pay the fee, they return the grant letter, with your receipt attached, to you. Hey presto, 4-7 days later license in the post.