Arsenal v Liverpool Carling Cup Wed [read mod note on 1st post]

CHD

Aquilani looks decent for a player that hasn't played in months and only played 15 mins or so. Sigh.

Esse85

Off topic, but when will we find out who arsenal will play next in this competition?

Eire-Dearg

Positives

- N'Gog developing into a really good player.
- Insua scoring a great goal, boosting his confidence no end. He got a bit of stick after the Lyon game..
- Plessis and Spearing working well in the centre, despite having a difficult time against the pass and move of Arsenal. Don't think they're good enough for Liverpool though, alas.
- Who knew Degen was that quick? Needs to work on his end product though. Potential.
- Aquilani finally making his debut, showed plenty of potential. I think we've a player here on our hands. Will be magic when he's fit.

Negatives

- Voronin. Please, just GTFO. Maybe he did "work", but so can anyone. Shit.
- Babel enjoys running into cul-de-sacs, doesn't he?
- Kuyt was non-existent for most of the game.
- Skrtel seemed shaky.

And just realised Babel and Voronin finished the game, while N'gog was taken off. FFS?

OPENROAD

Esse85 wrote: »

Off topic, but when will we find out who arsenal will play next in this competition?

Saturday sky sports around midday

internelligent

Really enjoyed this Match. Honestly, I was expecting a bit of a hammering. Skrtel makes me nervous enough now which is very far from the player he can be.
Degen - Impressed.
Ngog - Very impressed. I feel he just needed a bit of confidence.
Insua - Took his goal well. Would worry about his pace but only that.
Spearing - came into the game a little more in the second half.
Plessis - Felt he was out of his depth, (more than Spearing).
Kuyt - hmmmmmmm. Don't like speaking ill of Kuyt
Babel - To shoot him would be a waste of a bullet. SOOOOOO frustrating!!!!
Voronin - Picked up quite a lot in the last 15-20 mins. Very mediocre before that. After seeing his 'celebration' when Ngog scored on Sunday I don't like this person.

Aquaman - REALLY looking forward to seeing this man in action against fulham. Looks to have the skills regardless on what some people think. His first pass made me shout 'Alonso who?' With only 15 mins of play you can't judge the man but if his 15 mins were anything like Babels I'd be singing a different tune!

All in all, happy with the performance, unhappy with the result. Really wanted a good cup run this year, even if it was the Carling Cup. Miss winning things:(

flahavaj

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Positives

- N'Gog developing into a really good player.
- Insua scoring a great goal, boosting his confidence no end. He got a bit of stick after the Lyon game..
- Plessis and Spearing working well in the centre, despite having a difficult time against the pass and move of Arsenal. Don't think they're good enough for Liverpool though, alas.
- Who knew Degen was that quick? Needs to work on his end product though. Potential.
- Aquilani finally making his debut, showed plenty of potential. I think we've a player here on our hands. Will be magic when he's fit.

Negatives

- Voronin. Please, just GTFO. Maybe he did "work", but so can anyone. Shit.
- Babel enjoys running into cul-de-sacs, doesn't he?
- Kuyt was non-existent for most of the game.
- Skrtel seemed shaky.

And just realised Babel and Voronin finished the game, while N'gog was taken off. FFS?

Said with such certainty. Upon what evidence is such a bold statement based my dear boy?

ButcherOfNog

Great game, pretty even too, Arsenal just edged it. Babel was quite anonymous, every other pool player tried hard, looked decent. Ngog really impressed in the 1st half. Very disappointed in Babel, so much wasted talent, really don't think he wants to be a pool player anymore, best to shift him on as soon as possible.

Boggles

Jaysus lads people rating the Italian after 19 minutes of football really need to rethink their approach to football.

Liverpool needed a win tonight, it really is turning into an invaluable competition.

leninbenjamin

flahavaj wrote: »

Said with such certainty. Upon what evidence is such a bold statement based my dear boy?

I presume it's based upon the premise he was one of Roma's best players, considered by many to be Pirlo's natural successor and has already broken into the Italian squad (and would arguably play a more significant role if he hadn't been hampered by injury).

flahavaj

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I presume it's based upon the premise he was one of Roma's best players, considered by many to be Pirlo's natural successor and has already broken into the Italian squad (and would arguably play a more significant role if he hadn't been hampered by injury).

I wasn't asking you.

Boggles

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I presume it's based upon the premise he was one of Roma's best players,

Thats hardly a glowing reference.

leninbenjamin

flahavaj wrote: »

I wasn't asking you.

oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was an open discussion forum. I had no idea I had to ask your permission before posting.

Boggles wrote: »

Thats hardly a glowing reference.

Well, better to be one of the best players in a Champions league team than a team of relegation battlers. Yet Valencia seems to be doing all right don't you think?

jank

Boggles wrote: »

Jaysus lads people rating the Italian after 19 minutes of football really need to rethink their approach to football.

Liverpool needed a win tonight, it really is turning into an invaluable competition.

Agreed. Remember the beast scored four goals against liverpool in the same competition. Way too early to judge a player. Will need to see him for at least5-6 games before making any call on who good he was. Some people are getting rather excited about nothing.

Good win by Arsenal, many strong teams left in the comp, home draw would be nice. Where was vela, was he injured?

Eire-Dearg

Boggles

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Well, better to be one of the best players in a Champions league team than a team of relegation battlers.

TBH I have only ever really seen him in the CL where he has never stood out.

As I said he has played 19 minutes. He should be given at least a couple of months.

flahavaj

leninbenjamin wrote: »

oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was an open discussion forum. I had no idea I had to ask your permission before posting.

Post away dear boy, but when I ask a particular person his reasoning behind his rather spurious claim, you will forgive me for wanting that person's particular thought process behind their post rather than idle speculation on someone else's part. Unless of course you're a mind reader, in which case feel free to elaborate further on his opinions.

rossie1977

ntlbell wrote: »

being outplayed by in expirienced kids when liverpool put out a realtivley strong squad.

I wish I had the ability to see such positivity

outplayed?? arsenal had one shot on goal in the second half

inexperienced, depends on what way you look at it
Fabiański has 15 caps for polands national team
Senderos and silvestre are not exactly inexperienced, gibbs started in the champions league semi final last year and played most of the games for arsenal at the back end of last season, if he is inexpericenced then so is insua
Nasri, Eduardo and Bendtner inexperienced??

call it what you will, arsenal started with 8 full internationals on the pitch, i bet most clubs would love to put out that much inexperience on a weekly basis lol, liverpool had 6 full internationals starting btw

internelligent

Boggles wrote: »

As I said he has played 19 minutes. He should be given at least a couple of months.

Agreed. But he did show promise, you must admit that.

flahavaj

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Compelling and utterly conclusive.

MementoMori

Decent game with Liverpool slightly unlucky overall - a draw in the 90 mins would probably have been a more accurate reflection of things.

I thought Cavalieri was poor and I wouldn't be that confident if Reina picked up a knock. Might be rustiness/lack of match practice.

Degen did well going forward but wasnt really put under any pressure defensively. If there ever was going to be a team suitable for him to have a decent game against, it was always going to be the Arsenal Carling Cup side, in that they're never going to be a physical battle type side. I still would have major qualms about him at RB defensively and would hope that Kelly is ahead of him in the RB pecking order. Might have some use as a RW.

I thought Kyrgiakos did fine, Skrtel maybe less so. They were probably a bit unlucky with the second goal. I was worried about a lack of pace beforehand and I think that Arsenal looked most dangerous when attacking at pace.

Insua - another solid game from Emil. Stunner of a goal. Fingers crossed it's the first of many. Stunner. There was one occasion when he got his positioning wrong defensively but overall good game. Great goal.

Plessis and Spearing - I thought Plessis had the slightly better game of the two but that neither of them had a great game. With Mascherano, Lucas and probably at least one of Gerrard or Aquilani they are effectively at best the 4th and 5th choice in terms of CM, so the chances of both ot them actually playing together in the first team is pretty remote. They are 20 and 21 and tonight they kinda looked it in terms of there development. They weren't helped by the formation which meant they were outnumbered in the centre of the pitch, with neither Kuyt and Babel offering much of a hand in terms of the midfield battle. Both of them have contracts until 2012 so it'll be interesting to see how things develop from here.

On a related point worth remembering that Lucas is only 22 and a fair bit ahead in terms of his development. Anyone see Plessis making the French national squad in a year or Spearing making the Engliah national team in two?

Kuyt - Less said the better - I wasn't sure it was the right option to play him beforehand and am more certain now. I think would have been better starting Eccelstone. Looked like a player who should have been rested.

Babel - Given 90 mins to impress, his biggest impact on the game was his missed chance, which kinda says it all. There were a couple of bright spots but not enough to convince. With Riera injured, I thought he might stake more of a claim. Disappointing

Voronin - Ran about quite a bit - sadly to very little effect. On the basis of tonight I would only expect to see him in dead rubbers or if there are severe injuries among the forwards.

N'gog - Played very well. Said it before but I think he just looks like a footballer. Keep up the good work. Of all the fringe type players he impressed the most. I think he was subbed off in case he might be needed against Fulham.

Aquilani - From the 20 min cameo Kwalettee - Looks like a proper player. Looked kinda like Benayoun (physically) and in style. Showed good skills and vision (w the ball to Degen) Seemed quite pacey and fairly lively/busy. If I was looking for negatives I'd wonder about his tackling. Might be due to the rustiness. We shall see. For the moment though he looked good.

Arsenal - played some nice football at times. Will be intersting to see just how much further they go in the competition.

cson

MementoMori wrote: »

Decent game with Liverpool slightly unlucky overall - a draw in the 90 mins would probably have been a more accurate reflection of things.

Not quite sure I agree with that. If Arsenal could have finished more clincally it could have been more than 2-1. Having said that Liverpool did have a few decent chances but on balance I think it was a fair result.

As an aside; a lot of people really need to grow up in here. It's laughably childish at times.

noodler

Whilst I do feel edged it were in no way disgraced. Kuyt put in his usual nuclear powered shift, Voronin and N'Gog showed som great touches, Babel cleared out he cobwebs and gave the arsenal defense plenty to worry about, Degen looks the player Johnson is sposed to be, Insua scored a wonder goal that his confidence badly needed and Aquaman produced the pass of the game despite being on for 20 minutes.

Personally I feel this is about as satisfying as a defeat gets.


PS I'm gonna stay classy and not mention the peno and incorrect offside decision.

jank

call it what you will, arsenal started with 8 full internationals on the pitch, i bet most clubs would love to put out that much inexperience on a weekly basis lol, liverpool had 6 full internationals starting btw

Well that just shows you the level of depth that Arsenal have over Liverpool.

cson

jank wrote: »

Well that just shows you the level of depth that Arsenal have over Liverpool.

Liverpool did manage to beat the Hammers away though... :P

noodler

jank wrote: »

Well that just shows you the level of depth that Arsenal have over Liverpool.

Or Vice-versa

cson

noodler wrote: »

PS I'm gonna stay classy and not mention the peno and incorrect offside decision.

But.... you did just there

raven136

really good enjoyable game to watch,great play by both teams and the kids did well on either side,insua and ngog stood out for the pool,ramsey for arsenal imo.

Its a myth that kids play in this,there were 7 internationals in the Arsenal team and similar in Liverpool.Overrall thought arsenal deserved it just ahead of us,mind you Babel could have changed all that.

A loss is always bad but nothing dishearting about tonights and a few more cameo's like tonights will have Aquilani fit soon enough.

Roll on top Fulham on the weekend and give Ngog a run out again at some point during it.

spockety

Liverpool needed a win tonight, it really is turning into an invaluable competition.

No they didn't, and no it's not.

egan007

raven136 wrote: »

...give Ngog ....

Pun not intended

Boggles

spockety wrote: »

No they didn't, and no it's not.

Would you like to expand?

leninbenjamin

raven136 wrote: »

Its a myth that kids play in this,there were 7 internationals in the Arsenal team and similar in Liverpool.

ah but that's not really true. Fair enough they aren't entirely fresh from the academy but I thought the youngster's on both sides, Ngog, Gibbs, Gilbert, Eastmond, Plessis were the best players on the field last night. Carling cup experience is invaluable to them, and not to mention a boost to their confidence.

Tbh, i think the Carling Cup would be more interesting if a commitment to youth was enforced. For example, you could have a format similar to the Olympics where the bulk of the squad is U23 with a few seniors thrown in for good measure.

tok9

leninbenjamin wrote: »

ah but that's not really true. Fair enough they aren't entirely fresh from the academy but I thought the youngster's on both sides, Ngog, Gibbs, Gilbert, Eastmond, Plessis were the best players on the field last night. Carling cup experience is invaluable to them, and not to mention a boost to their confidence.

Tbh, i think the Carling Cup would be more interesting if a commitment to youth was enforced. For example, you could have a format similar to the Olympics where the bulk of the squad is U23 with a few seniors thrown in for good measure.

That actually sounds like a great idea... i suppose the bigger clubs implement that anyway..


ps. no disrespect btw

Dublin_Gunner

MementoMori wrote: »

Anyone see Plessis making the French national squad in a year or Spearing making the English national team in two?

No.

SDTimeout

Then it really would seem to be a piss-take competition. Not to mention what about the lower league teams who often get a run in this, TV Money and a possible scalp by playing their full team against stronger youths.

leninbenjamin

SDTimeout wrote: »

Then it really would seem to be a piss-take competition. Not to mention what about the lower league teams who often get a run in this, TV Money and a possible scalp by playing their full team against stronger youths.

well, it always has been a pisstake competition, until Chelsea's new money came in and started taking it seriously so they could say they got a double .

Maybe it would undermine things for the lower leagues, but I think it would do far more good than damage. I know from experience that a lot of the championship teams have youth teams as good as the vast majority of the Premiership (with the exception of the big teams of course) so i don't think the difference would be too vast. Secondly, finances are so important these days that coaches would rather risk burning out their experienced pros than give a chance to a green youth. Such a format would do wonders in terms of giving the young players a proper go of things.

Frisbee

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Christ Degen is fast. If he could do something at the end of his burst of pace we might be onto something.

This, he is frighteningly fast

redzerdrog

Boggles wrote: »

Jaysus lads people rating the Italian after 19 minutes of football really need to rethink their approach to football.

ya mean like macheda last year:rolleyes:


i taught i already posted this but not sure

Boggles

redzerdrog wrote: »

ya mean like macheda last year:rolleyes:


i taught i already posted this but not sure

What a 18 year old reserve player with another club has to with this thread, I don't know.

But if your trying to infer I was hyping the Italian, you would be very much mistaken.

LuckyLloyd

noodler wrote: »

Whilst I do feel edged it were in no way disgraced. Kuyt put in his usual nuclear powered shift, Voronin and N'Gog showed som great touches, Babel cleared out he cobwebs and gave the arsenal defense plenty to worry about, Degen looks the player Johnson is sposed to be, Insua scored a wonder goal that his confidence badly needed and Aquaman produced the pass of the game despite being on for 20 minutes.

Personally I feel this is about as satisfying as a defeat gets.


PS I'm gonna stay classy and not mention the peno and incorrect offside decision.

Came in here to write pretty much exactly the above. Plenty of positives to take away from the defeat. Good luck to Arsenal for the remainder of the competition.

Big Knox

You have to love this thread. All arsenal fans saying great game, both teams played well and admittadly Arsenal the better team in the end.

Liverpool fans saying similar, good game very close and some positives to be looked at in the form of aqualanis debut.

And... United fans throwing around troll like comments and trying to stir the **** all aimed at liverpool as usual.

My god lads I know it was hard to take for ye on sunday but bitter much?? :pac:

TheSpecialOne

what a game lovley flowing football from both sides these arsenal pool games are turning into right crackers champions league quater final,4-4 at anfield and now this...the proper way the game should be played. BTW talk of rafa getting the bullet are ridiculous...reminds me of some idiots in our "fanbase" saying the same about wenger same time last year

Roaster

Even at this level Senderos & Silvestre are poison. They weaken any team they are in and a lot of Liverpool's chances last night were as a result of Senderos getting caught in no-mans land. Did anyone else see Silvestre trip over himself when he had the ball and no real pressure on him.

Bendtner took his goal well but Arsenal could have easily had another few if this fella had a brain.

Good to see Robbie Keane giving AW's teamtalk this morning.

jesus_thats_gre

jank wrote: »

Well that just shows you the level of depth that Arsenal have over Liverpool.

I don't want to get into a retarded argument with you but this has to be addressed.

The Liverpool starting lineup for last night:

01 Cavalieri
16 Kyrgiakos - Greek International
22 Insua - Argentine International
27 Degen - Swiss International
37 Skrtel - Slovakian International
26 Spearing
28 Plessis
10 Voronin - Ukraine International
18 Kuyt - Dutch International
19 Babel - Dutch International
24 Ngog

I am sure that if the likes of Spearing or Plesis were eligible for Wales, they too would be internationals





As for the game, only got to see the highlights on MOTD and it appeared that both teams could have easily scored a few more goals.

The second half highlights in particular made Voronin look quite good. Delighted to see that Aquilani got through the run out also.

Mr Alan

good game. unfortunate not to bring it to extra time. Deegan looked great, as did Ngog.

aquilani looked assured when he came on & wat an intro it would have been if that bicycle kick hadda gone in.

ah well, as i said before the game, not really bothered, just wanted some positives to take from the evening & got them in abundance.

Dublin_Gunner

Mr Alan wrote: »

good game. unfortunate not to bring it to extra time. Deegan looked great, as did Ngog.

lol Trap should be checking his grandparents!

gosplan

Boggles wrote: »

Jaysus lads people rating the Italian after 19 minutes of football really need to rethink their approach to football.

Liverpool needed a win tonight, it really is turning into an invaluable competition.

I don't think it's necessarily 'rating' him but in 19 minutes he produced a couple of things that haven't been seen from a player in a Liverpool shirt yet this season.

You can easily see what it would mean to Liverpool's chances of success were he to succeed long term.

Boggles

gosplan wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily 'rating' him but in 19 minutes he produced a couple of things that haven't been seen from a player in a Liverpool shirt yet this season.

He also fell over twice, is that a glimpse of whats to come aswell?

The guy needs to be given time to settle in, making snap jugements on seeing him for less that 20 minutes is moronic.

The question is will he get the time, the last 20 million pound signing was on his back before you could say scapegoat.

Blackhorse Slim

The last £20M signing Rafa made was Torres. He's done ok. We all know Keane was a Parry mistake.

Melion

Ill go out on a limb here. In a years time nobody will even think about mentioning Xabi Alonso. I know it was only 15 minutes but that was a very impressive debut, he played a ball out on to the right wing that was very Alonso-esque. I cant wait to see him when he is fully match fit.

Boggles

Blackhorse Slim wrote: »

The last £20M signing Rafa made was Torres. He's done ok. We all know Keane was a Parry mistake.

Parry signing players behind Rafas back and picking the team? No wonder Scouse supporters hate him.

And as far as I remember Parry was instrumental in the Torres signing.