Border extension

Cabaal

soldering iron wrote: »

Kilkenny folk

This is the whole argument in a nutshell, some where in your small mind you believe that "Kilkenny folk" exist. We are Irish, and nothing else, what team you support does not define an ethnic group; I know people that support Liverpool does this make them liverpoolians the interest of the majority must prevail

once again this some Waterford people's broken record argument,
You might have a chip on your shoulder about the GAA etc but that doesn't mean all Kilkenny people do, I couldn't give a monkleys about the GAA I don't have any stickers or flags on my house or any crap like that.

Sport just doesn't come into it for me but at the end of the day if Waterford want land to devlope let them do it on exisiting land, they have plenty of it.

When it comes to excuses for wanting to affectively take the land the broken record starts again and they say Kilkenny ignores the area, if this was an issue why don't Kilkenny people say this?

Paddy@CIRL

merlante wrote: »

I think it's fairly obvious the place has been neglected. I thought even south Kilkenny people were more or less agreed on this.

The only parts of Ferrybank that are neglected are in the Waterford CC boundaries. Get off your high horse before proclaiming an area to be 'neglected'.

What have Kilkenny CC given Ferrybank ?



You can bet your arse on it that it would never of happened had it of been in the WCC boundary. It may not be open yet but when it is, I'll be glad to never have to go across the bridge to that embarrassment of a city center.

WCC would be better off trying fix what they have, before trying to ruin what they don't.

For the record, I do live within the WCC boundary.

soldering iron

trishw78 wrote: »

I haven't mentioned team nor has anyone else, so why bring it into the arguement.

I believe there called liverpudlians not liverpoolians.

great!! you are so out there


Yes you have not mentioned teams , but the under linng current is that the extension is about a little jersey.

Bards

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

The only parts of Ferrybank that are neglected are in the Waterford CC boundaries. Get off your high horse before proclaiming an area to be 'neglected'.

What have Kilkenny CC given Ferrybank ?



You can bet your arse on it that it would never of happened had it of been in the WCC boundary. It may not be open yet but when it is, I'll be glad to never have to go across the bridge to that embarrassment of a city center.

WCC would be better off trying fix what they have, before trying to ruin what they don't.

For the record, I do live within the WCC boundary.

I love this priceless quote from http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/Blow-for-city-as-mart.5770713.jp

"Kilkenny has been relatively fortunate, we didn't over do out of town retail like other towns in the region. Many places like Clonmel and Carlow are suffering because of an over proliferation of retail on the edge of their towns," he claimed ( Mayor of the city, Malcolm Noonan )

No Kilkenny gave Waterford City an out-of-town development instead - more economic espionage

alpha2zulu

soldering iron wrote: »

Yes you have not mentioned teams , but the under linng current is that the extension is about a little jersey.

In who's opinion excatly,havent seen that slant trotted out in the debate at all! Pure nonsense.

The only parts of Ferrybank that are neglected are in the Waterford CC boundaries. Get off your high horse before proclaiming an area to be 'neglected'.

What have Kilkenny CC given Ferrybank ?



You can bet your arse on it that it would never of happened had it of been in the WCC boundary. It may not be open yet but when it is, I'll be glad to never have to go across the bridge to that embarrassment of a city center.

Ferrybank SC,theres some balanced development straight off and having the likes of Aldi and the shopping centre out there in Ferrybank once open will save you doing battle with the parking fine malitia o'er the bridge.

Besides the bombsite that is the current N9 I wouldent say South KK is neglected at all,and as I live there I think I should know! And to slag off all the politicians in the area is way off the mark.Like everywhere some of them are only deadweights but then others like Tomas Bhreathnach is extremely well respected.

Besides, the issue of boundary extension would appear to be the least of Watererford's CC's problems at the moment with this thread seemingly only being a product of one persons anti KK vendetta:rolleyes:

Squidvicious

fricatus wrote: »

TBH, only a proper, comprehensive redrawing of the local government map will sort out the mess.

Being surrounded by two local authorities that see Waterford as a source of funding for their own projects is a major part of the problem. KCC allowing a huge shopping centre to go ahead in Ferrybank is just one side of the coin. (Isn't it great though, to be able to plonk a huge shopping centre on the edge of the city next door and pull in alll those rates that can be spent on widening the Bennetsbridge roundabout or whatever else...)

Dungarvan County Council (can we really call them Waterford County Council?) have done the same. They've allowed a huge TKMaxx shop to be opened just the other side of the city boundary. And while it's nice to see the lovely playground they've opened there recently and the newly redone Clonea road, you only need to compare that with the level of spending they do on Tramore to know where TKMaxx and Harvey Norman's rates will go.

What all the cities of Ireland need is to be responsible for the planning of their entire hinterlands, out to a radius of about 25 or 30 km. If the government wants to set up this sort of system across the country, or have larger (Co Cork-sized) regional councils, that's fine, but the cities must be able to plan themselves.

And I don't care what they're called. When France brought in the départements back in the day, they called them after natural features. They can call all these areas Suirside, Noreside, Comeragh, Slaneyside, etc. for all I care. That takes care of the arguments about KK people not wanting to live "in Waterford" (as if someone was moving their house... :rolleyes:). What we need is proper planning, and we're not getting it.

I think that Fricatus's point is an excellent one and has been forgotten/ignored in all the mud-slinging . Kilkenny people always get called parochial when they argue against the boundary extension , but you can
argue that it's the Waterford side that's being parichial by wanting to enlarge their area for no good reason . Let's face it , moving the boundary by a mile or two is hardly likely to transform the city . County boundaries either need wholesale reform ( perhaps something based on telephone area coeds e.g. 051 etc.) or they should be left alone . Minor tinkering makes little difference .

Mind you , wholesale change will probably enrage just about everybody

JohnC.

Would it not be a good idea to do something about the city centre instead of trying to aquire land across the river and developing there instead? There's too many dead units in the centre already. Or perhaps Ferrybank should close down some more of theirs to achieve the fabled balance.

trishw78

Don't see how close the unit in Ferrybank is going to help. But your point is well made WCC need to sort out there problems in the City Centre before they start wanting to extend anything.

then maybe the people in ferrybank will be more open to the idea.

soldering iron

In who's opinion excatly,havent seen that slant trotted out in the debate at all! Pure nonsense.
well then, what is the problem with a part of the irish countryside been brought into a Irish city.

Besides, the issue of boundary extension would appear to be the least of Watererford's CC's problems at the moment with this thread seemingly only being a product of one persons anti KK vendetta
If you a referring to my good self here, i look at the bigger picture and the econimic future of the area.the well beening of the people that inhabit this land at this point and time.

Bards

Cabaal wrote: »

Your rantings are paranoid, claiming Kilkenny is trying to sabotage Waterford.
paranoid much?

How can they be paranoid rantings if they are true. Surely the council who insists on covering up the "Welcome to Waterford" sign has more serious issues than I

jmcc

The problem is that Kilkenny is a town that thinks it is a city and Waterford is a city that has the problems of a town due to the neglect over most of a century by the idiots in Dublin.

Regards...jmcc

Cabaal

jmcc wrote: »

The problem is that Kilkenny is a town that thinks it is a city and Waterford is a city that has the problems of a town due to the neglect over most of a century by the idiots in Dublin.

Regards...jmcc

Lets not start this town and city ****e again.
Kilkenny City
Waterford City
Leave it at that and try stick to the topic at hand atleast lads seriously

Waterford does have a number of issues that have been very badly neglected for a long time and these needs to be sorted before Waterford should even think of trying to do a land takeover.....its not some magic thing that will solve all the citys problems

jmcc

Cabaal wrote: »

Lets not start this town and city ****e again.
Kilkenny City
Waterford City
Leave it at that and try stick to the topic at hand atleast lads seriously

That city/town aspect is the kernel of the issue. The reality is that Kilkenny is a city on paper but is, by population, a town. Waterford is a city and like most cities it is growing. As cities grow then tend to urbanise and expand so that smaller satellite towns become absorbed into a greatly enlarged city area. This long-term expansion seems to be worrying Kilkenny.

Waterford does have a number of issues that have been very badly neglected for a long time and these needs to be sorted before Waterford should even think of trying to do a land takeover.....its not some magic thing that will solve all the citys problems

Waterford was a major trading city before DeValera and the rest of the gobsh!tes in Dublin ruined Ireland's economy and infrastructure. The inbred moronicism of the Irish political scene allowed villages like Galway to overtake it. Waterford has a lot of things to solve first.

Regards...jmcc

JohnC.

jmcc wrote: »

That city/town aspect is the kernel of the issue. The reality is that Kilkenny is a city on paper but is, by population, a town.

What does that even mean? There is no population definition of what a city is. There are a few real definition used, as opposed to imaginary ones, and Kilkenny does fit some of them, as does Waterford. There isn't all that much difference between Kilkenny and Waterford cities in the grand scheme of things. They are both tiny cities.

jmcc

Kahless wrote: »

What does that even mean? There is no population definition of what a city is.

It means that Waterford city has a larger population than Kilkenny city. Waterford city seems to be growing and as cities grow they tend to absorb satellite towns to such an extent that they become areas in an enlarged city. Part of Waterford city is technically in county Kilkenny and with the way that Waterford is growing, that part of Waterford city is likely to expand.

Regards...jmcc

JohnC.

jmcc wrote: »

It means that Waterford city has a larger population than Kilkenny city.

No, the quoted part, about how Kilkenny is a town by population.

As for the above, just because it has a smaller population than another city doesn't mean it isn't a city itself. I'm sure Waterford had a smaller population at one point while still being a city too.

jmcc

Kahless wrote: »

No, the quoted part, about how Kilkenny is a town by population.

Kilkenny is a city by statute. If it purely was down to population there are other areas that could equally claim to be cities.

As for the above, just because it has a smaller population than another city doesn't mean it isn't a city itself. I'm sure Waterford had a smaller population at one point while still being a city too.

Yes but the way things tend to work is that the larger city expands and absorbs the smaller satellite towns.

Regards...jmcc

thund3rbird_

from the CSO website
(http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popofeachprovcountycity2006.htm)

regarding the population, it lists each county and in the case of the FIVE counties that have cities they are listed separately for city & county

the 5 are Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick & Waterford.

was up in the north west recently & Sligo (& I think Letterkenny) is now getting in on this pretence of calling itself a city - roundabouts on the outskirts with 'city centre' signs.

back to topic ...

I'm sure if Cork, Tipp or Wexford Co Councils (KK excluded here on purpose) wanted to extend their boundaries into parts of Co Waterford there would be objections too even though the areas in question would be rural areas.
However, the objections regarding extending the city boundary northwards seem to be solely on the objective of blocking the development of the city , a development that will no doubt benefit the entire region.

It's like a child having a toy that they don't like and never play with. They don't really want it but will scream blue murder should another child go anywhere near it.

All sides should cop on and come to some sort of agreement about what is best for the region.
There are people from Tipp, KK & Wex all working in Waterford & I'm sure people from Waterford working in the other counties as well (maybe not as many).
The whole region needs to start pulling together for everyone's good instead of employing these parish-pump style politics that seems to have ruled throughout the country for generations.

west101

alpha2zulu wrote: »

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

The way the KCC have planned the area is a total disgrace. the amount houses on the abbey road over the years has incresed more than ten fold and the road is still not fit for a push bike.

merlante

People seem to think that Waterford CC are trying to expand the city northwards. While the CC does prefer symmetrical growth because services are cheaper to provide, the city is expanding northwards whether we like it or not, because people are moving there.

There reaches a point where it is quicker to get across the river than it is to come in from the suburbs on the south side, and ultimately, when people buy houses they don't tend to think about hurling jurisdictions, they think about the fundamentals of getting to work, school, etc. People are living there, and you can't tell them to live in Gracedieu or wherever if that's where they want to live. Cities and towns grow organically and under normal circumstances boundaries change to reflect growth. According to the last census, there are about 4,000 people, or 8% of the urban area, in the northern suburbs of Waterford, outside of the boundary. That figure is about double what it was in 2002. It probably stands at about 5,000 now because it was/is one of the fastest growing parts of the city, and will have grown strongly in 2007, even if nobody was buying/building a whole lot over the past two years.

At what point do people accept that the city is expanding northwards? Where should the rates go? Obviously to Waterford CC who are generating the growth. There were no people living there until Waterford city grew in population. The people in the northern suburbs deserve to have the rates generated locally, spent locally, which is much less likely to happen when Kilkenny people consider south Kilkenny to be basically Waterford anyway. They won't spend big money that close to Waterford city and that far away from Kilkenny. Anyone monitoring the sort of road maintenance, etc., conducted by Kilkenny Co. Co. in the area knows this. They wouldn't even clean the place up and cut a few weeds for the Tall Ships, because Kilkenny Co. Co. don't give a damn about Tall Ships in Waterford.

Once you take hurling out of it, and once you take cash out of it, there is no reason why the boundary should not be increased. In any other country in the world it would be normal practice. In Kilkenny city the boundary was expanded recently and nobody said a word because it was the same GAA team either side of the boundary. When it's Waterford city, there's talk of invasions and land grabs, and the sort of parochial savagery that always seems to trump good planning in this country. In the middle of big recession and nothing looks like it's going to change. We're bankrupt, financially and morally, in this country because we always bow to vested interests rather than do what is right.

Hells Belle

west101 wrote: »

The way the KCC have planned the area is a total disgrace. the amount houses on the abbey road over the years has incresed more than ten fold and the road is still not fit for a push bike.

Have to agree with you there about the state of the road but WCC & KCC are equally responsible for it. There is some imaginary line down around by the turn off for Clover Meats and they both stop just before the line, in the past 3 years its been closed at least 5 times - one of those for months - and the road is still a fookin disgrace.

I also really don't like the way KCC have put up 2 social housing sites in Ferrybank (Ard Dara & the one by Aldi) - the population was too small and the facilites way way underfunded and now local people have to put their kids names down for school the minute they are born or risk having to bring them to the city each day.

As a matter of interest anyone know who would have given PP for that disaster behind the girls school? Eyesore Majora they should call it. Supposed to be filling it with ex holy people, right behind a school......ummm nice :eek:

Both councils are full of gobshiites as far as I'm concerned.

trishw78

Hells Belle wrote: »

Have to agree with you there about the state of the road but WCC & KCC are equally responsible for it. There is some imaginary line down around by the turn off for Clover Meats and they both stop just before the line, in the past 3 years its been closed at least 5 times - one of those for months - and the road is still a fookin disgrace.

It's not an imaginary line it's the county boundry. The first time it was closed for months was because the Irish Rail bridge was within days of collapsing and major works needed to be done on it. Any bridge that cross under or over a rail track is the responsibility of Irish Rails upkeep.

the second time the road was closed was because the maindrainage/sewage pipe leading to the new sewage works in Belview was being laid. This pipe is of vital importance to whole of Ferrybank.

As a matter of interest anyone know who would have given PP for that disaster behind the girls school? Eyesore Majora they should call it. Supposed to be filling it with ex holy people, right behind a school......ummm nice :eek:

This was covered in a previous thread.

Hells Belle

sorry that was ages ago, I'm forgot cause I have a busy life, but with all due respect it is imaginary cause I don't see any LINE when I drive over it - or is it invisible and only Kilkenny people can see it??? ... that's a great superpower... :rolleyes:

I live on the Abbey Road, it took us 15 years to get footpaths from KCC, I know the area and I know how many times I've been inconvenienced by the road works (the last only a few weeks ago for resurfacing iirc) and the place is still a mess - are you defending the state of it? The WCC side isn't any better either btw.

trishw78

I've lived on the Abbey Rd. for the past 30 years, there's only been extra traffic on it the last 15. That road was considered a 'country rd' for a lot of that time. The line isn't imaginary much as you don't see boundary lines between the Waterford county boundry and the Cork boundry. They exist just 'cause you don't see meridan lines doesn't mean they don't exist.

JupiterKid

Waterford is not the only city or town in Ireland that urgently needs a boundary extension - in fact most of thrm do. Limerick city's case is probably even more urgent than Waterford's - nearly all the problem "sink" estates are within the city boundaries and the middle class areas of Castletroy and Dooradoyle/Raheen remain outside - the city needs to take these areas into control. Cork city also needs to expand its boundaries IMO.

I agree with other posters - pathetic small minded gombeen parochial thinking has held this country back for far too long and has thwarted logical, steategic planning and devlopment.

Waterford city should expand its boundaries North of the River Suir. It's apparent that Kilkenny County Council don't allocate anywhere near enough resources for this part of the city.

Cabaal

JupiterKid wrote: »

Waterford city should expand its boundaries North of the River Suir. It's apparent that Kilkenny County Council don't allocate anywhere near enough resources for this part of the city.

Again its really only Waterford people saying this, anybody from the area does not have this view.

kayaksurfbum

Cabaal wrote: »

Again its really only Waterford people saying this, anybody from the area does not have this view.

It seams that the only problem KK people have is that their address will change to Waterford. Am i right? and to be honest id not be very happy if my address changing to Cork or Wexford but if it ment id have a better bus route, foot path or road id put up with it. Your address does not really change who you are. Iv always found it pretty lame of KK people who live, work, shop and study in waterford still dont want to be part of the city or county!!!

Cabaal

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

It seams that the only problem KK people have is that their address will change to Waterford. Am i right? and to be honest id not be very happy if my address changing to Cork or Wexford but if it ment id have a better bus route, foot path or road id put up with it. Your address does not really change who you are. Iv always found it pretty lame of KK people who live, work, shop and study in waterford still dont want to be part of the city or county!!!

Your assuming it, given I don't live in the potentially affected area I can't comment specifically and as I've said numerous times how about you leave the people in the area have their say instead of deciding for them?

Do you think my above suggestion is a pretty fair one?

Also in relation to improving paths etc there';s nothing to back up these statements; Again your largely assuming that if Waterford annexed the land they'd make some super massive changes.

Sadly there's plenty of places within the existing City that could do with money been spent before they even think of spending it in other countys.

west101

Cabaal wrote: »

Again its really only Waterford people saying this, anybody from the area does not have this view.

Im from the area and my mates are from the area, we are in favour of a border extentsion because the area would benefit from being fully integrated into the waterford city development plan rather than an after thought of KCC

Hells Belle

west101 wrote: »

Im from the area and my mates are from the area, we are in favour of a border extentsion because the area would benefit from being fully integrated into the waterford city development plan rather than an after thought of KCC

^ ditto - however the whole area is divided completely and there are die hards on each side - on either side of my house I had Waterford colours and Kilkenny colours when the hurling was on. There are also people who don't give a toss either way. At the end of the day we all knew it was Kilkenny (well my ma did when she moved us there 29 yrs ago). I dont think its ever going to happen, besides who would I have to write angry letters to if KCC weren't fcukin with my water and bins.......my life would be empty