Palestinians' Water Cut 'To A Trickle'

dlofnep

Amnesty International has launched a scathing attack on Israel, accusing it of rationing Palestinians to a "trickle of water".

The human rights organisation says Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza are being denied the right to adequate water supplies.

"Israel allows the Palestinians access to only a fraction of the shared water resources, which lie mostly in the occupied West Bank," says the report's author, Donatella Rovera, "while the unlawful Israeli settlements receive virtually unlimited supplies."

Full article: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Water-Rationed-By-Israel-Palestinians-Get-Only-A-Trickle-Of-Water-Amnesty-International-Report/Article/200910415418465

More disgusting behaviour by Israel. What is it going to take for them to end this nonsense? The UN needs to intervene. A unbiased peace-keeping force needs to be sent into the area and enforce international law, because Israeli forces have absolutely no accountability. Palestinian land should be returned. Illegal settlements should be destroyed. Israel's leaders should be brought before the Hague for war-crimes. The US should end their unlimited spending on military aid for Israel.

sceptre

dlofnep wrote: »

What is it going to take for them to end this nonsense?

As I've said before, sanity from both sides and less cheerleading for either.

The cheerleading leads to little to help the huddled masses on both sides hiding from the terror propagated by (funnily enough) both sides and it's unfortunate when a round of public group spankings would be rather more useful than rhetoric on behalf of whichever side appears more palatable to one person or another.

Then again, look at me claiming the common sense.

Biggins

As an impartial observer of the whole mess - can anyone please explain to me why, just why America supports Israel more so much?
Is Israel quietly sitting on oil or uranium???
Genuine question - why the steadfast support for Israel ?

Nodin

B'tselem have been saying the same for years. It's a subtle form of warfare, really. They overuse their share of the Jordan basin generally.

The average Israeli uses 300 litres a day, the average Palestinian 70. Some are down to 20.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8327188.stm

With nitrates from the sewage and salt from the sea, only 5-10% of the water in Gaza's wells - and therefore its taps - now meets World Health Organization guidelines, even after it has been chlorinated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8327146.stm

Perhaps somebody will redo the sketch from "Team America" and replace Blix with Obama and Kim Jong-il with Netanyahu

Jumpy

Biggins wrote: »

As an impartial observer of the whole mess - can anyone please explain to me why, just why America supports Israel more so much?
Is Israel quietly sitting on oil or uranium???
Genuine question - why the steadfast support for Israel ?

Depends on who you ask.

The one I heard was that the US has a very high jewish population and they keep them happy for votes.

dlofnep

sceptre wrote: »

As I've said before, sanity from both sides and less cheerleading for either.

Easier said than done when Israel continues to provoke Palestinians by illegal land grabs, bulldozing of houses and locking them in a virtual prison with insufficient food and water.

Think you could remain sane under similar conditions? I'm perplexed by the idea that Palestinians should sit back, and let Israel continue it's illegal settlements and harassment of the Palestinian people. Could you imagine if Ian Paisley turned around tomorrow and stated that Cavan was now under British control, and started bulldozing down all the houses there - giving them to Unionists? Seriously, would you be as sane? Because that's exactly what's happening here.

Nodin

Jumpy wrote: »

Depends on who you ask.

The one I heard was that the US has a very high jewish population and they keep them happy for votes.

A high population in certain swing states, is actually how that theory goes. Personally I don't believe its that major a factor, as most Jewish Americans are far more left leaning than the right wing Israeli lobby.

wes

An interesting blog post on the independent.co.uk web site by Kate Allen, director of Amnesty in the UK:

Kate Allen: Swimming the Israeli settlements

Nice little blog that does sum up the situation pretty nicely imho.

Personally, I think the deteriorating situation of the Palestinains populace in general and in particular Gaza (the situation in Gaza, is worsened by Egyptian and Western complicity in the appaling siege), will in no way help peace. I think the concept of Maslow hierarchy of Needs theory applies here. Basically, the Palestinians will be more concerned with getting food and water, and simply won't be in a position to do much about peace. Afterall, its hard to think about peace, when your children are thristy and hungry and it should be noted that the West is very complicit in causing this deterioration of the Palestinian populace.

**EDIT**
For some bizare reason, its only ever seems to be the Palestinians who the West punishes for killing innocent civilians, while Israel basically gets away with it. Either both sides need to be punished or neither, the current ridiculous situation of Israel claiming that they are being victimized in the UN, while Gaza is under siege with the complicity from Western nations is quite frankly ridiculous. Now to be fair, in the UN Human Right Council condemnation of Israel, should have included a condemnation of Hamas, but I think it fair to point out that the siege on Gaza, is a 1000 times worse than a condemnation at the UN, that has little or no effect.

sceptre

dlofnep wrote: »

Easier said than done when Israel continues to provoke Palestinians by illegal land grabs, bulldozing of houses and locking them in a virtual prison with insufficient food and water.

Apparently my underlying theme wasn't obvious enough. Ah well.

Let's presume there wasn't an underlying theme that dealt strictly with the cheerleading (which I'm hoping some will notice). While one shower are marshalling the populace into what's been described as the largest concentration camp in the world, the other side are firing missiles out. Both sides are leading their own people to what may well be their own destruction. That's opinion. Both sides consider that their version of god is on their side. That's retarded. Both sides have their own group of cheerleaders in the west, eager to ignore the nasty things done by the side they support and eager to highlight the nasty things done by ths side they don't. That's, well, plain myopic. And part of the problem, not the solution. That's what cheerleading and finger-pointing does. Sure, finger point at the wrongs. That means doing it to both sides where appropriate, not just to one. Only cranks ignore the sty in their own eye to point at the plank in the other guy's (yes, I know what I did there). That's the problem. Semi-organised international idiotic cheerleading. And the worst thing is that those who are doing it can't see anything wrong with it because you know, their chosen side is like, right and all that. I can at least see the point in people living there having a limited vista - they're stuck with the terror of the other side, whichever one it is. There's no excuse for that outside of the area though. None whatever.


As for the early question about why the support is there from the US, there's certainly a pro-Israeli lobby. What influence it has is a matter of opinion. However, it's worth remembering that the US has a policy of acquiescence to the Balfour declaration, despite their not liking it, and there may have been a measure of guilt after WW2, with their realisation that if they'd pushed their case there might have been less jewish deaths in that war. That's part one. Secondly, US support was largely neutral towards Israel (despite being an early recogniser of the state) in the 50s and most of the 60s. One only has to look at the Suez crisis for that (for anyone not familiar with it, look it up but the short version is that the US supported Egypt). That's part 2. However, with the Soviets financially backing the Arab states throughout the 60s and Israel pushing them back in 1967, the US started to give more financial support to Israel as the first example of a state that actually beat the Soviet-backed opposition. You can pretty much see the change in policy around then as US relations with Egypt weren't warmed by Cairo's expulsion of Soviet ambassadors in 1972. Israel has been the largest recipient of US foreign aid every year since 1976. That's part three. The "lobby" has been considered as a force since, partly due to having the same basic values (in a simple sense) as the Christian right, with whom they've been allied on a number of issues. That's part four. The conspiracy theorists might say that the disappearance of the Kennedys as a major force in US politics had quite a bit to do with the rise in aid but I rather doubt that myself, correlation not being causation. Notably Kissinger said that in the Yom Kippur war, if Israel had struck first, they wouldn't have received "so much as a nail".

That's the short answer. The "lobby" answer on its own is completely oversimplistic in my view but as you can see from above I've got something of a more grey than black and white view about the whole thing anyway. The black and white lobby will just say it's the lobby and a bit of vote-swallowing and campaign money-making but put frankly, they're wrong. Even the view that it's as simple as loyalty left over after the cold war would be over simplistic and hence, also wrong.

Simply put, it's all of the above. Also, the US only changes foreign policy when it has a reason to do so or sees a major advantage in doing so (a pivot point - and militarily, not financially). In forty years, neither side in this conflict has particularly given them a military reason for switching support. I'm still being too simplistic but the points above are a good jumping off zone for further reading.

FlutterinBantam

Spot on Sceptre.

Time someone spoke the truth about that region,without beating the big drum endlessly and tiresomely about percieved wrongs and rights.

I have a lot of experience in that area, not recent though, and can assure you that your summation of the situation is correct.

proper dialogue is the only answer as was proved closer to home, and bullhorn expounders of the same auld rhetoric only serve to alienate the general public thinking or caring about what happens there.

Biggins

sceptre wrote: »

...As for the early question about why the support is there from the US, there's certainly a pro-Israeli lobby. What influence it has is a matter of opinion. However, it's worth remembering that the US has a policy of acquiescence to the Balfour declaration, despite their not liking it, and there may have been a measure of guilt after WW2, with their realisation that if they'd pushed their case there might have been less jewish deaths in that war. That's part one. Secondly, US support was largely neutral towards Israel (despite being an early recogniser of the state) in the 50s and most of the 60s. One only has to look at the Suez crisis for that (for anyone not familiar with it, look it up but the short version is that the US supported Egypt). That's part 2. However, with the Soviets financially backing the Arab states throughout the 60s and Israel pushing them back in 1967, the US started to give more financial support to Israel as the first example of a state that actually beat the Soviet-backed opposition. You can pretty much see the change in policy around then as US relations with Egypt weren't warmed by Cairo's expulsion of Soviet ambassadors in 1972. Israel has been the largest recipient of US foreign aid every year since 1976. That's part three. The "lobby" has been considered as a force since, partly due to having the same basic values (in a simple sense) as the Christian right, with whom they've been allied on a number of issues. That's part four. The conspiracy theorists might say that the disappearance of the Kennedys as a major force in US politics had quite a bit to do with the rise in aid but I rather doubt that myself, correlation not being causation. Notably Kissinger said that in the Yom Kippur war, if Israel had struck first, they wouldn't have received "so much as a nail".

That's the short answer. The "lobby" answer on its own is completely oversimplistic in my view but as you can see from above I've got something of a more grey than black and white view about the whole thing anyway. The black and white lobby will just say it's the lobby and a bit of vote-swallowing and campaign money-making but put frankly, they're wrong. Even the view that it's as simple as loyalty left over after the cold war would be over simplistic and hence, also wrong.

Simply put, it's all of the above. Also, the US only changes foreign policy when it has a reason to do so or sees a major advantage in doing so (a pivot point - and militarily, not financially). In forty years, neither side in this conflict has particularly given them a military reason for switching support. I'm still being too simplistic but the points above are a good jumping off zone for further reading.

Much appreciated. Thanks for talking the time to suggest all the above.
Cheers.

meditraitor

sceptre wrote: »

Apparently my underlying theme wasn't obvious enough. Ah well.

Let's presume there wasn't an underlying theme that dealt strictly with the cheerleading (which I'm hoping some will notice). While one shower are marshalling the populace into what's been described as the largest concentration camp in the world, the other side are firing missiles out. Both sides are leading their own people to what may well be their own destruction. That's opinion. Both sides consider that their version of god is on their side. That's retarded. Both sides have their own group of cheerleaders in the west, eager to ignore the nasty things done by the side they support and eager to highlight the nasty things done by ths side they don't. That's, well, plain myopic. And part of the problem, not the solution. That's what cheerleading and finger-pointing does. Sure, finger point at the wrongs. That means doing it to both sides where appropriate, not just to one. Only cranks ignore the sty in their own eye to point at the plank in the other guy's (yes, I know what I did there). That's the problem. Semi-organised international idiotic cheerleading. And the worst thing is that those who are doing it can't see anything wrong with it because you know, their chosen side is like, right and all that. I can at least see the point in people living there having a limited vista - they're stuck with the terror of the other side, whichever one it is. There's no excuse for that outside of the area though. None whatever.


As for the early question about why the support is there from the US, there's certainly a pro-Israeli lobby. What influence it has is a matter of opinion. However, it's worth remembering that the US has a policy of acquiescence to the Balfour declaration, despite their not liking it, and there may have been a measure of guilt after WW2, with their realisation that if they'd pushed their case there might have been less jewish deaths in that war. That's part one. Secondly, US support was largely neutral towards Israel (despite being an early recogniser of the state) in the 50s and most of the 60s. One only has to look at the Suez crisis for that (for anyone not familiar with it, look it up but the short version is that the US supported Egypt). That's part 2. However, with the Soviets financially backing the Arab states throughout the 60s and Israel pushing them back in 1967, the US started to give more financial support to Israel as the first example of a state that actually beat the Soviet-backed opposition. You can pretty much see the change in policy around then as US relations with Egypt weren't warmed by Cairo's expulsion of Soviet ambassadors in 1972. Israel has been the largest recipient of US foreign aid every year since 1976. That's part three. The "lobby" has been considered as a force since, partly due to having the same basic values (in a simple sense) as the Christian right, with whom they've been allied on a number of issues. That's part four. The conspiracy theorists might say that the disappearance of the Kennedys as a major force in US politics had quite a bit to do with the rise in aid but I rather doubt that myself, correlation not being causation. Notably Kissinger said that in the Yom Kippur war, if Israel had struck first, they wouldn't have received "so much as a nail".

That's the short answer. The "lobby" answer on its own is completely oversimplistic in my view but as you can see from above I've got something of a more grey than black and white view about the whole thing anyway. The black and white lobby will just say it's the lobby and a bit of vote-swallowing and campaign money-making but put frankly, they're wrong. Even the view that it's as simple as loyalty left over after the cold war would be over simplistic and hence, also wrong.

Simply put, it's all of the above. Also, the US only changes foreign policy when it has a reason to do so or sees a major advantage in doing so (a pivot point - and militarily, not financially). In forty years, neither side in this conflict has particularly given them a military reason for switching support. I'm still being too simplistic but the points above are a good jumping off zone for further reading.

The undelying theme is still not clear to me, a lot of words but nothing really being said....

What are really saying here?

Dont take it the wrong way, I just dont understand the point your trying to make in reply to the op

meditraitor

What I am trying to get across and probably not clearly is this

Is this happening?

The restriction of water to a million people..... see op

And if so is it not alright for people to blow their trumpet about it? Or to be disgusted enough to shout abotu it albiet on their keyboard!

Maybe I read it wrong.... if so please ignore

sceptre

meditraitor wrote: »

The undelying theme is still not clear to me, a lot of words but nothing really being said....

What are really saying here?

Dont take it the wrong way, I just dont understand the point your trying to make in reply to the op

Well the point I'm making is very simple. And yes, there are a lot of words and there's something quite pointed being said, regardless of whether you understand the point or not.

Here's most of the point, using far fewer words:
Both sides are doing nasty things. Both sides have been doing nasty things to each other for a long time. For some reason, people are often blindly supporting one side in this period of nasty things - ignoring what's being done by the side they support while condemning what's hting done by the side they dislike. That doesn't make any sense. It makes the problem live longer. It keeps the problem alive. It's silly.

Now I realise that the above doesn't contain much of the criticism I included in previous posts but I'd suggest going back to the actual posts for that as I wrote them the way I did for a good reason. Blindly supporting one side while ignoring the wrongs perpetrated by that side is plain idiotic. While that happens, we'll be revisiting the same problem for the next sixty years. And that's idiotic too.

I can make it simpler but I'm hoping I don't have to.

Nodin

That rather presupposes a parity of ability and aggression on both sides. Hamas being unlovely fundamentalists and firing infrequent bottle rockets doesn't really equal 40 years of brutality systematic colonisation and slow drip ethnic cleansing on the other lots part. They were doing in fact before Hamas existed, before Hezbollah existed, and were either or both to vanish, doubtless it would continue with another excuse inserted.

In addition, and rather unfortunately, only one side is truly isolated internationally. There is thus a need to get across exactly how 'not like us' Israel is.

FlutterinBantam

Even I can understand that.

Pity others can't.

wes

While, I agree with a lot being said above, it only really works if both sides are exactly equal in terms of power. There is always a clear power inbalance between an occupier and the occupied, ignoring this difference, isn't helpful either imho.

There is a clearly a greater sense of urgency with the Palestinian situation, seeing as they don't have basic water supplies for example, this can't be ignored. Yes, Hamas needs to be condemned and there actions stopped, but I think there is a world of difference between the the results of the actions of Hamas, and the Israeli government, the both clearly don't have the same effect. There are people in Southern Israel who are traumatized and have had there homes damaged or destroyed, and this is appalling. However, with the Palestinians, they have also be traumatized, we have a lot more homes, infrastructure, factories, and more destroyed, and the water infrastructure on the brink of collapses, you can't possibly tell me that the situations of the 2 groups comparable.

I honestly can't see a group of people lacking one of the basic neccessities of life being in any position ot make peace (again see Maslows Hierarchy of Needs), and I think ignoring the humanitrian disaster of the Palestinians is a massive mistake. The water situation for them should be addressed as a matter of urgency, and ignoring it will ensure that peace will not be achieved.

T runner

sceptre wrote: »

Let's presume there wasn't an underlying theme that dealt strictly with the cheerleading (which I'm hoping some will notice). While one shower are marshalling the populace into what's been described as the largest concentration camp in the world, the other side are firing missiles out. Both sides are leading their own people to what may well be their own destruction.

I dont see how Israels actions are leading to their own destruction. A few stray missiles isnt going to destroy Israel. On the other hand all thats left of Palestine in reality is the thirsty population.

Both sides consider that their version of god is on their side. That's retarded.

First of all please dont use that word, its disrespectful.
Second of all, the conflict is fundamentally one of land, not religion.

Both sides have their own group of cheerleaders in the west, eager to ignore the nasty things done by the side they support and eager to highlight the nasty things done by ths side they don't.

EXamples please. Do you mean individuals or governments?

Sure, finger point at the wrongs. That means doing it to both sides where appropriate, not just to one. Only cranks ignore the sty in their own eye to point at the plank in the other guy's (yes, I know what I did there). That's the problem. Semi-organised international idiotic cheerleading. And the worst thing is that those who are doing it can't see anything wrong with it because you know, their chosen side is like, right and all that. I can at least see the point in people living there having a limited vista - they're stuck with the terror of the other side, whichever one it is. There's no excuse for that outside of the area though. None whatever.

The wrongs: Palestine is annexed and millions of Palestinians are evicted to refugee camps, ouside the new state of Israel. Some have been in camps ever since.

A continued and deliberate military suppression of the entire Palestinian population for political motives.

Suicide bombs by Palestinian extremists killing innocent Israelies and giving the Israelies the excuse to continue bulldozing their people at will.

Same to a less extent re: the missiles.

Simply put, it's all of the above. Also, the US only changes foreign policy when it has a reason to do so or sees a major advantage in doing so (a pivot point - and militarily, not financially). In forty years, neither side in this conflict has particularly given them a military reason for switching support. I'm still being too simplistic but the points above are a good jumping off zone for further reading

.

Ther dont have to switch support they have to STOP supporting Israel.

Israel have it in their power to end this conflict. They have all the trump cards. They continue simply because it is in their political interest to do so and because they can get away with it as long as the US continues to supprt them: in effect protecting them from meaningful international sanction.

FlutterinBantam

Noeleen Hartigan of Amnesty just got blown out of the water by the Israeli dep. Amb on this issue on Mary Wilson's prog. RTE1.

Conformed what I always knew from my experience there.

Lawless thugs much the same as NI using the conflict to hold the people to ransom for their own criminal activities.

irish_bob

Biggins wrote: »

As an impartial observer of the whole mess - can anyone please explain to me why, just why America supports Israel more so much?
Is Israel quietly sitting on oil or uranium???
Genuine question - why the steadfast support for Israel ?

the israeli lobby is extremley influential in washington , it is also very influential in all sections of the media in the usa , also , israel is like a watchtower for america to keep an eye on the mid east

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Lawless thugs much the same as NI using the conflict to hold the people to ransom for their own criminal activities.

The IDF? I agree.

diverdriver

Israel have it in their power to end this conflict. They have all the trump cards.

No they don't. They are a tiny population surrounded by hostile countries whose only desire is to wipe them from the face of the Earth. The only things, the only things keeping keeping them from being wiped off the face of the map is their own fighting prowess in numerous wars and America's support.

Those of you who advocate withdrawal of American support and sanctions against them by Europe should know what that it will result in another holocaust and ethnic cleansing on a scale only seen once before such is the hatred whipped up by their Arab neighbours.

Now you can argue that it's their own actions that brought them to this. Indeed they haven't endeared themselves by their actions of late. But being close to extermination does concentrate the mind somewhat. You can also argue that Israel shouldn't exist. Well it does and they did by themselves despite often zero support from the west and outright hostility from the Arabs who they consistently defeated despite holding no trump cards at all. Israel isn't going away without a fight therefore it's right to exist needs to be recognised by surrounding countries.

As for the Palestinians, well as the saying goes 'They never seem to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity'. Particularly now in Gaza which is now controlled by what is effectively a fundamentalist terrorist organisation who are using Gaza's population as cover for their ambitions.

So where does the answer lie? Negotiation of course and compromise of course. Neither side seem particularly willing to do that given their history. Yet it's the only way. You just have to wonder how deep the bloodbath has to be before they cry enough.

callig

dlofnep wrote: »

The US should end their unlimited spending on military aid for Israel.

and we know what the chances of that happening are!

If seen to be in the strategic interests of the United States, Washington is quite willing to support the most flagrant violation of international law and human rights by its allies and block the United Nations or any other party from challenging it. No ethnic lobby or ideological affinity is necessary to motivate policymakers to do otherwise.

http://www.fpif.org/papers/usisrael.html

The question is how do we find a way to stop the US from putting it's own interests ahead of resolving the conflict.

The Saint

Wow, what a load of claptrap.

diverdriver wrote: »

No they don't. They are a tiny population surrounded by hostile countries whose only desire is to wipe them from the face of the Earth. The only things, the only things keeping keeping them from being wiped off the face of the map is their own fighting prowess in numerous wars and America's support.

Those of you who advocate withdrawal of American support and sanctions against them by Europe should know what that it will result in another holocaust and ethnic cleansing on a scale only seen once before such is the hatred whipped up by their Arab neighbours.

Now you can argue that it's their own actions that brought them to this. Indeed they haven't endeared themselves by their actions of late. But being close to extermination does concentrate the mind somewhat. You can also argue that Israel shouldn't exist. Well it does and they did by themselves despite often zero support from the west and outright hostility from the Arabs who they consistently defeated despite holding no trump cards at all. Israel isn't going away without a fight therefore it's right to exist needs to be recognised by surrounding countries.

As for the Palestinians, well as the saying goes 'They never seem to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity'. Particularly now in Gaza which is now controlled by what is effectively a fundamentalist terrorist organisation who are using Gaza's population as cover for their ambitions.

So where does the answer lie? Negotiation of course and compromise of course. Neither side seem particularly willing to do that given their history. Yet it's the only way. You just have to wonder how deep the bloodbath has to be before they cry enough.

dlofnep

diverdriver wrote: »

No they don't.

Yes they do. Halt their illegal settlements, stop harassing the Palestinian people, halt it's blockade and remove all it's people from the occupied territories.

If they do the above, the majority of the Palestinian people will be happy.

Israel is the main cause of the conflict, not Palestine.

A Dub in Glasgo

sceptre wrote: »

Well the point I'm making is very simple. And yes, there are a lot of words and there's something quite pointed being said, regardless of whether you understand the point or not.

Here's most of the point, using far fewer words:
Both sides are doing nasty things. Both sides have been doing nasty things to each other for a long time. For some reason, people are often blindly supporting one side in this period of nasty things - ignoring what's being done by the side they support while condemning what's hting done by the side they dislike. That doesn't make any sense. It makes the problem live longer. It keeps the problem alive. It's silly.

Which is exactly the reason people should be calling for a consistent response from the world powers. Unfortunately, the world powers have shown themselves to be incapable of a consistent response therefore people will rightly pick up on that.

Nodin

diverdriver wrote: »

Those of you who advocate withdrawal of American support and sanctions against them by Europe should know what that it will result in another holocaust and ethnic cleansing on a scale only seen once before such is the hatred whipped up by their Arab neighbours..

Nope, I think not. Don't see what that has to do with them inflicting vast suffering on the populace of Gaza either.

diverdriver wrote: »

You can also argue that Israel shouldn't exist. ..

I'm not sure if thats a red herring or a straw man....

diverdriver wrote: »

As for the Palestinians, well as the saying goes 'They never seem to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity'. Particularly now in Gaza which is now controlled by what is effectively a fundamentalist terrorist organisation who are using Gaza's population as cover for their ambitions.
..

...because Gaza was such a bed of roses before Hamas came along. And of course we've seen the "peace dividend" that Abbas has gotten for keeping his people in check in the west bank. Lots of lovely new houses and apartments. All for Israeli settlers of course, but they can look at them from a safe distance, and sure what more do ye want....

Overheal

Im guessing, for the whole thing, its all religious. There are only an estimated 13.2 Milllion Jews Worldwide. Thats a surprisingly low figure, to me. 5.6m of them live in Israel; 6.4m live in the United States. together they make up 72% of the Entire Jewish population on the Globe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

Throw onto this, the staggering religious significance of the West Bank. As far as Holy Ground goes, it doesnt get more holy than that. Rome can kiss its balls.

I think it transcends Votes and Politics. This is - quite frankly it comes this close to being an Ecunemical matter, Ted.


You cant just pull out support. It becomes the Second Holocaust. Would the Jewish faith even be able to survive it? Nor do any of you honestly believe they would ever accept relocation because it would mean giving up Jerusalem: There isnt a chance in hell the Palestinians would ever agree to let them back there for pilgrimages or anything else for that matter, if that became the case.

Sand

@meditraitor

The undelying theme is still not clear to me, a lot of words but nothing really being said....

What are really saying here?

Dont take it the wrong way, I just dont understand the point your trying to make in reply to the op

What I believe hes trying to say is this:

Two or three times a month, a thread is posted by someone which links to a news story regarding Israel, where Israel is criticised or blamed or something.

A comment along the lines of " This is terrible. What terrible cruel evil things those Israelis do to those poor suffering Palestinians. Wont somebody do something?"

Once the call goes out then the gang show up, posting a series of "Yes, that is terrible" to "Well what would you expect from monsters who would do X, Y, Z" linking to another story where Israel has done something cruel and evil, feeding the development of the threads theme.

After about 1-2 pages, when everyone has exchanged thanks on each others posts and agreed with everyone else, mission accomplished, the thread then drops off the radar until another two or three weeks passes and something else is linked to and the same "Damn those heartless bastards!" thread appears.

Every now and then, someone makes the mistake of engaging ( I plead guilty of doing so a couple of time). An epic death spiral of a thread then develops, anything up to 20 pages as anything other than the Israelis giving the Palestinians anything and everything they want is denounced as surrender to inhuman evil. Eventually someone throws their hands up in disgust at the insanity and moves on, swearing never to make the mistake of trying to reason with the fanatics ever again.

The thread then drops off the rader until another two or three weeks passes and something else is linked to and the same "Damn those heartless bastards!" thread appears.

Everyone feels good. Either we've sounded off on the right side of history, or if a death spiral develops then we're on familiar ground - Christ, some of the "points" on the this thread are like old friends at this point...

So we get to have our heated dinner party discussion, making sure were sure were right and the others are wrong...arguing over insignificant details like "who started it?!?!" Seriously...who started it is about as advanced as discussion can get.

And in the meantime, not a single thing has changed. Not an iota achieved.

Anyway, see ya on the next "Oh God, arent they so terribly evil!" thread.

dlofnep

UN calls on Israel to halt demolition of Palestinian homes
UNITED NATIONS, Oct. 27 (Xinhua) -- The United Nations on Tuesday called on Israel to immediately halt forced evictions and demolitions of Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, warning that as many as 60,000 people there may be at risk of forced evictions, demolitions and displacement.

Israeli authorities demolished the homes of six Palestinian families - 26 people, including 10 children - in East Jerusalem on Tuesday. This brings the number displaced through forced evictionsor house demolitions in the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) to 600, half of them children, since the beginning of the year, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) reported.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/28/content_12343927.htm

What right has Israel to evict people from their own homes?

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

@meditraitor


What I believe hes trying to say is this:

Two or three times a month, a thread is posted by someone which links to a news story regarding Israel, where Israel is criticised or blamed or something.

truncated for absurdity

Blame Israel's acts of terror, and not us for bringing their acts of terror to light. What Israel is doing is flat out WRONG. If you have an issue with us highlighting this, then tough. We won't be silenced. We have every right to discuss these issues.

You should be more worried about the fact that issues like the above are routinely happening the Palestinian people, instead of worrying about us routinely reporting on them.