Palestinians' Water Cut 'To A Trickle'

Overheal

dlofnep wrote: »

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/28/content_12343927.htm

What right has Israel to evict people from their own homes?

What right has Palestine to evict the Israelis from Israel


Thats a serious question btw.

The Saint

Overheal wrote: »

What right has Palestine to evict the Israelis from Israel


Thats a serious question btw.

They have no right to do it. They are not doing it. Bizare question.

Overheal

I just naturally assumed they wanted the Israelis to die or otherwise be eradicated from the face of the earth or something.

The Saint

Overheal wrote: »

I just naturally assumed they wanted the Israelis to die or otherwise be eradicated from the face of the earth or something.

Well as Oscar Wilde said "When you assume, you make an ass out or u and me". I think Palestinians would be quite happy with having their own state based on the internationally recognised, legal borders. I'm sure there are some Palestinians that would like to eradicate the Jews there, just as there are Israeli Jews that would want to do the same to the Palestinians. The thing is that not all people on both sides are mental cases. They are thankfully the minority. It's also not very helpful to generalise an entire group of people.

callig

dlofnep wrote: »

Blame Israel's acts of terror, and not us for bringing their acts of terror to light. What Israel is doing is flat out WRONG. If you have an issue with us highlighting this, then tough. We won't be silenced. We have every right to discuss these issues.

You should be more worried about the fact that issues like the above are routinely happening the Palestinian people, instead of worrying about us routinely reporting on them.

You have to remember it is US support that enables Israel to carry on the way it does. We can scream and shout until we are blue in the face about Israel's behaviour but nothing will come of it as long as the US deem Israel to be a strategic asset.
I am extremely sad to say it, but I don't think there is any hope we will see peace in the region. Americans are not going to act against thier own best interests and the world doesn't have the stones to confront the US so the conflict will just drag on and on.

Sand

Blame Israel's acts of terror, and not us for bringing their acts of terror to light. What Israel is doing is flat out WRONG. If you have an issue with us highlighting this, then tough. We won't be silenced. We have every right to discuss these issues.

You should be more worried about the fact that issues like the above are routinely happening the Palestinian people, instead of worrying about us routinely reporting on them.

Whose "us"?

Also your post is nonsense.

FlutterinBantam

Sand wrote: »

Whose "us"?

Also your post is nonsense.

I have been wondering about that too Sand.

Reminds me of Northern Ireland, they even paint the kerbs here too.

wes

Sand wrote: »

Every now and then, someone makes the mistake of engaging ( I plead guilty of doing so a couple of time).

A couple ? Your here in most of the threads, and in half of them you complain about people posting in these threads, despite the fact your posting in most of these threads. Its truly mind boggling that every couple of months or so, you decide to complain about people posting in these threads, despite the fact you post in them as well.

You do realize, that you probably make it more likely that people will post in these thread, with your occassional rants against people posting in them (all the while posting in them yourself).

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

Whose "us"?

Read the thread. You're a smart boy. I'm sure you can sort out the 'we' from the 'you'.

Sand wrote: »

Also your post is nonsense.

No, it wasn't. It made perfect sense.

dlofnep

Overheal wrote: »

What right has Palestine to evict the Israelis from Israel

Palestinians aren't evicting Israeli's from Israel. I'm not sure what your point is.

jank

Sand wrote: »

Also your post is nonsense.

Well Sand its a free country. If you dont like the death spiral of these posts just ignore other wise you are an accomplice and are just as guilty as everyone else.

Leave the moralising aside for a minute and maybe comment on the subject matter at hand.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Saint wrote: »

Wow, what a load of claptrap.

Your better than that and you know it, why not answer him.

As you know I'm a staunch supporter of Israel, I rarely get involved in these thread's here as they only ever really go one way - that is 'dlofnep posts up something, which is then 'thanked' by Wes, Nodin & Brianthebard, followed by the same from each of those guys and the circle is continued in each and every one of these threads (I wouldn't call them 'discussions') on Israel.

However you usually stand head and shoulders above this carry on, I was waiting for your input because its usually educated and informative, however this lets you down and I'm disappointed.

Nodin

Sand wrote: »

@meditraitor


What I believe hes trying to say is this:

Two (..........)thread.

You could apply that to a good 3/4's of the posts on the politics forum. It would appear to me you're indulging in sophistry.

Overheal wrote:

I just naturally assumed they wanted the Israelis to die or otherwise be eradicated from the face of the earth or something. .

I'd suggest you look up whats meant by 'the settlements' and 'the occupation'.

Miley Salmon Door wrote:

As you know I'm a staunch supporter of Israel, I rarely get involved in these thread's here as they only ever really go one way .....

...because when you do, you post the same Kahanist myths about the Palestinians, they're comprehensively refuted and you haven't the decency to acknowledge same before heading for the hills? Yep.

The Saint

Miley Salmon Door wrote: »

Your better than that and you know it, why not answer him.

As you know I'm a staunch supporter of Israel, I rarely get involved in these thread's here as they only ever really go one way - that is 'dlofnep posts up something, which is then 'thanked' by Wes, Nodin & Brianthebard, followed by the same from each of those guys and the circle is continued in each and every one of these threads (I wouldn't call them 'discussions') on Israel.

However you usually stand head and shoulders above this carry on, I was waiting for your input because its usually educated and informative, however this lets you down and I'm disappointed.

Sorry Mairt but I'm pretty sick of correcting the most elementary facts in these threads and it gets very frustrating refuting the whole "surrounded by states that want to destroy Israel" line. If someone diesn't even have a basic knowledge of the situation it's very difficult going over the same ground that has been covered ad infinitum. The guy hasn't even bothered to come back either.

However, just for you (cos I have a soft spot for you) I recommend that the poster read up on the 2002 Arab Peace initiative that has repeatedly offered full peace, recognition and normalisation of relations to Israel for a return to it's legal borders which has essentially been ignored by Israel.

Also, I find these threads frustrating as they always end up going round and round covering the same ground on the history and current events rather than dealing with the initial subject of the post, ie. water. It would be nice if they managed to stay on topic rather getting dragged into the same crap. Perhaps it's something the mods could look at.

dlofnep

Miley Salmon Door wrote: »

As you know I'm a staunch supporter of Israel

I like you Mairt, I might even let you ippon me sometime. But - How can you support the illegal evictions of families, and the illegal settlements at their expenses? Surely, there is a line which you can draw.

You must surely see that Israel is breaking a number of international laws. They are expanding their territory and are not adhering to international law. By expanding, they are provoking the Palestinians.

I do hope you engage in the discussion. I have alot of respect for you as a person, and I'm very keen to hear your views.

You might see a re-occurring theme here on the forum. But ask yourself - Is it because of an unfounded racist agenda against Israel, or is it because time and time again, we continuously see wrongdoings by Israel and watch them get away with it, scot-free.

Now don't get me wrong - Hamas is also to blame for the violence. But evictions of families, and interfering with basic water provisions isn't anything to do with war. And that's where the line is drawn.

T runner

diverdriver wrote: »

No they don't. They are a tiny population surrounded by hostile countries whose only desire is to wipe them from the face of the Earth. The only things, the only things keeping keeping them from being wiped off the face of the map is their own fighting prowess in numerous wars and America's support.

Are you claiming that without America's support the Palestinians would wipe them from the face of the earth? Because Israel are not targetting other "hostile" countries they are targeting evry Palestinian civilian.

Those of you who advocate withdrawal of American support and sanctions against them by Europe should know what that it will result in another holocaust and ethnic cleansing on a scale only seen once before such is the hatred whipped up by their Arab neighbours.

If there is an illegal attack on Israel it is up to the UN (with America) to intervene. Israel can be protected from hostile armies. This is not the same thing as protecting Israel from sanctions due to human rights violations against an entire ethnic population.

We must deprive these downtrodden people of their water otherwise they will rise up and wipe us out.

BTW there have been ethnic cleansing of a large scale seen in post war Russia.

Now you can argue that it's their own actions that brought them to this. Indeed they haven't endeared themselves by their actions of late. But being close to extermination does concentrate the mind somewhat.

Did the Palestinians (the ones being targetted) try to exterminate Israelies? Why are Israel attacking them. Recent events looks like the other way around

You can also argue that Israel shouldn't exist.

That would not be an unsuprising viewpoint from Palestinians given how they have been treated but a large number or majority even of them would see a resolution involving an israeli state

Well it does and they did by themselves

(Dispossessed and expelled all Palestinians)

despite often zero support from the west

Why should anyone support the ethnic removal of a people from their home country?

Israel isn't going away without a fight therefore it's right to exist needs to be recognised by surrounding countries.

Otherwise Israel will continue exterminating and starving Palestinians?

As for the Palestinians, well as the saying goes 'They never seem to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity'. Particularly now in Gaza which is now controlled by what is effectively a fundamentalist terrorist organisation who are using Gaza's population as cover for their ambitions.

What are you talking about? The vast majority of palestinians are downtrodded and semi starved. Why is israel cutting water supplies from tehse people??????

So where does the answer lie? Negotiation of course and compromise of course. Neither side seem particularly willing to do that given their history. Yet it's the only way. You just have to wonder how deep the bloodbath has to be before they cry enough

Before they cry enough? So the more Palestinians Israel kills the better the chances for Israel?

Please answer the question. Why is Israel cutting water supplies to Palestinians?

diverdriver

If someone diesn't even have a basic knowledge of the situation it's very difficult going over the same ground that has been covered ad infinitum. The guy hasn't even bothered to come back either.

Jaysus, give us a chance I have a life to lead outside the internet you know. But in any case I don't really need you to educate me about the situation. I'm quite aware of the history and am no cheerleader for many Israeli policies, indeed something I share with many Israelis. But it's clear to me many anti Israeli types apparently have no appreciation for the history of Israel and why they act as they do or the stark reality of what would happen to Israel it they were to take your 'advice'.

It would be nice if they managed to stay on topic rather getting dragged into the same crap.

What? You actually think this thread is about water to Gaza. It's another bash Israel thread in a long line of bash Israel threads. Sand put it very well. The whole thing is pointless as the same suspects with their simplistic solutions trot them out again and again. You said

I think Palestinians would be quite happy with having their own state based on the internationally recognised, legal borders.

dlfonep

Yes they do. Halt their illegal settlements, stop harassing the Palestinian people, halt it's blockade and remove all it's people from the occupied territories.

If they do the above, the majority of the Palestinian people will be happy.

Dear God, do you honestly believe that. Is your understanding of the situation so shallow that you actually believe the Palestinians and the wider Arab world will be happy with that situation? I'm actually laughing as I type this.

But to return the the original topic. Yes it is a bad thing if Israel is deliberately reducing water supply to the Palestinians. They shouldn't do it and it's not helping their cause. Not least because it give ammunition to the anti Israeli trendies like yourselves. But I do wonder just how deliberate it is?

Anyway carry on with hating Israel until you find another cause.

wes

diverdriver wrote: »

But to return the the original topic. Yes it is a bad thing if Israel is deliberately reducing water supply to the Palestinians. They shouldn't do it and it's not helping their cause. Not least because it give ammunition to the anti Israeli trendies like yourselves. But I do wonder just how deliberate it is?

So you more concerned with people criticizing Israel (due to there own actions), as opposed to the people who are suffering due to them having inadequate water supplies? Interesting priorities there.

Maybe, Israel shouldn't be reducing the Palestinian water supplies, as it violates all kinds of international laws, human rights and that it is simply wrong to deny people the basic necessities of life, and as an added plus, people won't criticise them for doing it.

Seems a bit ridiculous for people to be complaining about people commenting in this thread, when people are being denied sufficent water. Just seems all kinds of messed up to me.

diverdriver

T runner wrote: »

diverdriver wrote: »

Are you claiming that without America's support the Palestinians would wipe them from the face of the earth? Because Israel are not targetting other "hostile" countries they are targeting evry Palestinian civilian.

Sigh:rolleyes: Clearly you never heard of Iran, Syria etc etc.

If there is an illegal attack on Israel it is up to the UN (with America) to intervene. Israel can be protected from hostile armies. This is not the same thing as protecting Israel from sanctions due to human rights violations against an entire ethnic population.

You think the UN would protect it. It never did before. Only American support protects them and their own fighting ability. Read your history: The Yom Kippur war, the Six Day war.

We must deprive these downtrodden people of their water otherwise they will rise up and wipe us out.

I said they shouldn't do that

BTW there have been ethnic cleansing of a large scale seen in post war Russia.

Rubbish, show me proof.

Did the Palestinians (the ones being targetted try to exterminate Israelies? Recent events looks like the other way around)?

You've heard of Hamas, look them up. You've heard of Iran, check out the speeched of their leader! In general many Arab and Muslim countries want to eliminate Israel.

That would not be an unsuprising viewpoint from Palestinians given how they have been treated but a large number or majority even of them would see a resolution involving an israeli state

You might say that but do they. Do you really think they are as reasonable as you.

(Dispossessed and expelled all Palestinians)

All? You have heard about the Arab Israeli citizens living in Israel.

Why should anyone support the ethnic removal of a people from their home country?

Indeed it's unsupportable but it happened, that's war. Would you support the removal of Jews from their country?

Otherwise Israel will continue exterminating and starving Palestinians?

Typical propaganda

What are you talking about? The vast majority of palestinians are downtrodded and semi starved. Why is israel cutting water supplies from tehse people???????

Read your history, draw your own conclusions.

Before they cry enough? So the more Palestinians Israel kills the better the chances for Israel?

Both sides, don't put words in my mouth.

Please answer the question. Why is Israel cutting water supplies to Palestinians?

I suggest you go to a good bookshop and read up on the subject. Don't get it off the internet from the likes of the people who post here. The history of Israel is complex and difficult. There are no good guys or bad guys here. When you have studied the subject come back here and ask your questions. Of course I know you won't, most people nowadays get the history lesson from the internet. That oh so reliable and unbiased source of information.:rolleyes:

You are asking me to defend Israel and their current policies. I cannot and will not. But you will never understand why such a seemingly hostile act as reducing the water supply can happen until you understand how it came to this.

diverdriver

So you more concerned with people criticizing Israel (due to there own actions), as opposed to the people who are suffering due to them having inadequate water supplies? Interesting priorities there.

Typical internet reply, ignore the point made and then make a veiled ah hominen attack.

You are also asking us to believe that the people like you posting here are actually simply concerned with the water issue and that you don't have an underlying anti Israeli stance. Dlofnep has laid his cards firmly on the table and uses every opportunity to have a go at Israel. Whether he really cares about the plight of the Palestinians is quite another matter.

We all know what this thread is about, Sand called it and so am I. Stop pretending.

wes

diverdriver wrote: »

Typical internet reply, ignore the point made and then make a veiled ah hominen attack.

Really? Thats interesting, considering that pretty much every one of your posts in this thread, has had a problem with other posters offering criticism of Israel. You seem to have more of a problem with other poster who you disagree, with than any of Israel actions and have been pretty much attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you. All, I did was point this out.

diverdriver wrote: »

You are also asking us to believe that the people like you posting here are actually simply concerned with the water issue and that you don't have an underlying anti Israeli stance. Dlofnep has laid his cards firmly on the table and uses every opportunity to have a go at Israel. Whether he really cares about the plight of the Palestinians is quite another matter.

Its funny, that once again you seem more concerned with other posters, and yet right above you deny it and claim I was making a "veiled ah hominen attack", and yet here you are again, going on about other posters, and the hidden agenda of other posters. You don't bother offering any proof of these hidden agenda's, but still try and smear people in anyways, all the while denying your doing it.

diverdriver wrote: »

We all know what this thread is about, Sand called it and so am I. Stop pretending.

The thread is about Palestinains being denied sufficent water. If what your saying is true, than I am sure you or other who agree with you, can back up your accusations, otherwise I think it makes more sense to discuss the issues with water cocerning the conflict, as opposed to conspiracy theorys about other posters.

Now, most people tend to discuss land issue when talking about the conflict, but water is also another reason for conflict, as without life is simply impossible. One aspect of the conflict that isn't spoken of as often, is how important water is. Now the Amnesty report showed the different levels of usage of water, of both sides, and clearly shows that Israeli's use a hell of a lot more water than Palestinians (the Israeli's use the excess water for luxuries like swimming pools, and to water there lawns etc), and as such I think that is why Israel is taking water from the Palestinians.

T runner

Sigh:rolleyes: Clearly you never heard of Iran, Syria etc etc.

Less of the sarcasm. Argue if youre able to. If Syria, Iran etc are hostile to Israel, how will depriving Palestinians of water solve this?

You think the UN would protect it. It never did before.

It would protect it like it protected Iraq and Aghganistan.

Only American support protects them and their own fighting ability.

Their fighting ability is used to cut the supply of water to innocents. Why?

Read your history: The Yom Kippur war, the Six Day war.I said they shouldn't do thatRubbish, show me proof.

Yep a war that happenned in the sixties. How exactly does stopping the water supply to Palestinian citizens avert another Israeli-Arab war?

You've heard of Hamas, look them up. You've heard of Iran, check out the speeched of their leader! In general many Arab and Muslim countries want to eliminate Israel.You might say that but do they. Do you really think they are as reasonable as you.

Answer teh question, without avoiding if youre truthful.

How has the normal Palestinian Citizen ie those being targeted by the water shortage, how did the normal Palestinian Citizen try to exterminate all Israelis?

All? You have heard about the Arab Israeli citizens living in Israel.

OK, Most of the population of palestine was kicked out. Many of them have spent their entire lives living in refugee camps in Lebanon.

Indeed it's unsupportable but it happened, that's war.

"tha's war" are you serious. Israel expels millions of Palestinians off their land and out of the country and thats OK, thats war?

You could make the same atrocious argument for the massacres in Rwanda, and the current situation in Darfur and would you argue that the German Army/SS treatment of Jews in WW2 while unsupportable could be dismissed as "thats war"?

Would you support the removal of Jews from their country?

No. But sure if that actually happenned and they were forcibly removed sure "thats war" (according to yourself)

Typical propaganda

Meaningless words. Argue if youre able to.

Read your history, draw your own conclusions.
Both sides, don't put words in my mouth.

You are defending Israels policy of cutting water to all Palestinian civilians based on history. Presumably so their is justification for such an act.
What is the justification from youre own well read knowledge?

Give us some books to read from both sides (and from the internet, not your memory please)

I suggest you go to a good bookshop and read up on the subject. Don't get it off the internet from the likes of the people who post here.

From the likes of you?

The history of Israel is complex and difficult. There are no good guys or bad guys here.

Thats it one is as bad. Its a grey area, not dark grey though or light grey but exactly between black and white. Stopping a populations water supply is OK because there are no good guys or bad guys here.

When you have studied the subject come back here and ask your questions.
Of course I know you won't, most people nowadays get the history lesson from the internet. That oh so reliable and unbiased source of information.

Are newspapers viable sources of information? Are no internet sites are valuable sources? Have read a few but are all books valuable resources or only some? Who are you to dictate whats a valuable source of information or not?

You are asking me to defend Israel and their current policies. I cannot and will not. But you will never understand why such a seemingly hostile act as reducing the water supply can happen until you understand how it came to this.

Please explain how it "came to this". You will not because you can not!

T runner

Sand wrote: »

@meditraitor


What I believe hes trying to say is this:

Two or three times a month, a thread is posted by someone which links to a news story regarding Israel, where Israel is criticised or blamed or something.

A comment along the lines of " This is terrible. What terrible cruel evil things those Israelis do to those poor suffering Palestinians. Wont somebody do something?"

Once the call goes out then the gang show up, posting a series of "Yes, that is terrible" to "Well what would you expect from monsters who would do X, Y, Z" linking to another story where Israel has done something cruel and evil, feeding the development of the threads theme.

After about 1-2 pages, when everyone has exchanged thanks on each others posts and agreed with everyone else, mission accomplished, the thread then drops off the radar until another two or three weeks passes and something else is linked to and the same "Damn those heartless bastards!" thread appears.

Every now and then, someone makes the mistake of engaging ( I plead guilty of doing so a couple of time). An epic death spiral of a thread then develops, anything up to 20 pages as anything other than the Israelis giving the Palestinians anything and everything they want is denounced as surrender to inhuman evil. Eventually someone throws their hands up in disgust at the insanity and moves on, swearing never to make the mistake of trying to reason with the fanatics ever again.

The thread then drops off the rader until another two or three weeks passes and something else is linked to and the same "Damn those heartless bastards!" thread appears.

Everyone feels good. Either we've sounded off on the right side of history, or if a death spiral develops then we're on familiar ground - Christ, some of the "points" on the this thread are like old friends at this point...

So we get to have our heated dinner party discussion, making sure were sure were right and the others are wrong...arguing over insignificant details like "who started it?!?!" Seriously...who started it is about as advanced as discussion can get.

And in the meantime, not a single thing has changed. Not an iota achieved.

Anyway, see ya on the next "Oh God, arent they so terribly evil!" thread.

Absolutely ridiculous. (This is my first time posting on a thread relating to middle east.)

The OP is legitimate in that a big story emerged this week about the use of water in Palestinian territories.

This was bound to appear as a thread on this forum, infact I assume it appeared on every politics discussion board worldwide. Indeed the chances of it not appearing here are quite remote. You need to look at the OP and not try to second guess the reasons behind it.

You could just as easily accuse news programmes for being anti-israeli for reporting this story.

Some people will have a particular political point of view on this topic (e.g pro-israeli) some people might be (pro-palestinian).

The same people who are interested in this area will turn up again and again. This is common for NI, Irish Government threads etc. etc.

I dont view Israelis much differently to Americans, British or French for example but I think reducing a peoples water supply is probably a despicable act if deliberate and I would be interested to see if there is a defence or if the story is accurate. I would be equally aghast if Iranians had done this to one of their provences.

If you think the thread is somehow going along race lines then you should probably highlight thsi to a mod, or ask a mod what to do (by PM) they know more

Manic Moran

As a sort of unrelated trivia...

Back in the days of the Cold War, REFORGER was the largest regularly scheduled set of military exercises that the US partook in. Reinforcement of Forces to Germany.

Of course, those days are over, and the US's largest regularly scheduled military exercise is now held in the Middle East, and in a country which has been at war with Israel at least four times. I bring it up because the exercises are currently ongoing.

Absolutely ridiculous. (This is my first time posting on a thread relating to middle east.)

The bit in brackets, if it also is an indication as to how often you read the Middle East threads, explains the bit not in brackets. The man is quite right in his description of how these threads tend to go.

NTM

Ping Chow Chi

Manic Moran wrote: »

The bit in brackets, if it also is an indication as to how often you read the Middle East threads, explains the bit not in brackets. The man is quite right in his description of how these threads tend to go.

NTM

To be fair, you could say this is true of most of the threads on most of the forums on the board (but in particular to politics and sport I find). No one is forcing anyone at gun point to read these forums though

As for the topic in hand, I find it hard to believe that even the Israel goverment, of whom and not a great fan of, would be doing something as bad as this on purpose. I suppose water will be a huge flash point in that part of the world in a near future though.

wes

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

I suppose water will be a huge flash point in that part of the world in a near future though.

It actually is already in some area's. The Genocide in Darfur has at least been partially attributed to climate change causing there to be a shortage of water.

dlofnep

Manic Moran wrote: »

The man is quite right in his description of how these threads tend to go.

And why is it, that threads related to Palestine go in favour of the Palestinians? Is it because they are drastically more oppressed? Or is it an evil agenda against Israel? Which is it? Are we all anti-semites? Or are we just tired of Israel's blatant abuse of the Palestinian people, and consistent refusal to adhere to international law?

I don't see what exactly the issue is with creating a thread about the ongoing saga in Palestine. If you don't like the way a thread is going - offer a rebuttal for a bit of counter-balance. Although, I'm not quite sure if there is a fitting rebuttal to an issue relating to basic water resources.

And if the real issue is "predictability" within a thread - the same could apply to probably 90% of the threads on boards.ie

Food for thought.

FlutterinBantam

Hmmm... as long as the kerb painters in here keep banging the same auld drum we will have the same auld outcome.

Hamas keep shunting numerous missiles into Israel, Israel will keep retaliating.

The kerb painters can't see that a cessation of rockets into Israeli territory might result in a different outlook.

A bit of talk rather than the bellicose acts of rocketing innocent people might, just might , be a start.;)

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Hmmm... as long as the kerb painters in here keep banging the same auld drum we will have the same auld outcome.

Hamas keep shunting numerous missiles into Israel, Israel will keep retaliating.

The kerb painters can't see that a cessation of rockets into Israeli territory might result in a different outlook.

A bit of talk rather than the bellicose acts of rocketing innocent people might, just might , be a start.;)

Firstly, don't label anyone as "kerb painters".

Secondly, this isn't nothing to do with Hamas. The topic is water resources. Pay attention, thanks.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The kerb painters can't see that a cessation of rockets into Israeli territory might result in a different outlook.

A bit of talk rather than the bellicose acts of rocketing innocent people might, just might , be a start.;)

Really? Because Abbas has kept his lot in line in the West Bank, and all he's got for his trouble is expanded settlements there.

Que Pasa?