Experiencing Estrangement?

rosin

I'm a parent of an adult child who has estranged them self from me. I am hoping to connect with others in similar position for discussion, mutual support, empathy ect. Seems estrangement is a social taboo! plenty of activity on line in US and elsewhere on the subject but would be nice to make some Irish connections re this issue! I know its more common than is obvious...like I say, its taboo!

deisemum

I agree with you that it is fairly common.

I haven't had anything to do with my mother since my dad's funeral back in 2003 and I do not have any intention of ever having anything to do with her in the future. My own children do not want to have anything to do with their maternal grandmother. One of my adult nephew's hasn't had anything to do with my sister since long before that and I cannot see it changing. I also know of others in the same situation.

rosin

Interesting! There's a pattern of estrangement in my family too. My own experience with my adult child choosing not to have anything to do with me has been very painful and difficult, I seem to have come to a place with it recently of acceptance of sorts, honoring their choice so to speak. I am considering trying to get a support group going because I feel there are a lot of people who feel alone and ashamed of their situation, I know I have felt that way. The net is an anonymous way for people to broach the subject.

username123

Theres a pattern of estrangement in my family as well. In my own case it revolves around alcoholism and dysfunctional behaviour.
I was estranged from both of my parents before they died, I am mostly estranged from my only sibling, who I happen to know had a child over a year ago and despite speaking to me in the intervening year has yet to mention the child - very odd!!

I think it is quite common, my sibling was also estranged from both parents before they died, and both of us are also estranged from extended family on one side - and little interest on the other side.

It was a difficult decision for me to walk away from my family but I had suffered years of alcoholic abuse and mental torture - for me it was the right decision and I do not regret it.

LegacyUser

Username101 - I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you deal with your parents death having been estranged from them????? I am estranged from one of my parents and my cousin on his side occassionally throws in the "oh I would say you will be talking again before he dies" card.

username123

Username21 wrote: »

Username101 - I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you deal with your parents death having been estranged from them????? I am estranged from one of my parents and my cousin on his side occassionally throws in the "oh I would say you will be talking again before he dies" card.

There was a long and complicated history in my case, my fathers alcoholism was the source of huge problems and dysfunction in the family. My mother was codependant on him - I had made huge efforts for a long time to resolve the situation. Nothing worked. My father simply did not want to change.

I ended up in group therapy (Alanon), this was what helped me get my life back. I became estranged after I had started going to Alanon. Because of the help I got there I came to see the situation from a different perspective and realised that in fact my relationship with both of my parents had no 'normality' for a long time and I actually grieved the loss of that while they were still alive. I had a lot of support that helped me deal with that. By the time they died (they both died in an accident) the sitution had worsened to a point where my father was like something inhuman, his personality was long gone in the bottle and my mother was just supporting this madness and had also lost any semblance of her former self. It was self destruct for both of them for a long time.

When they did die the main emotion I felt was relief that such an awful situation was over. I had already been through the sadness and the grief, it was the group therapy that had helped me through all of it.

I have never regretted the estrangement. What I did and do regret was that they both couldnt see a better way of living and dealing with their family. But I know that none of it was anything I was responsible for or capable of changing. I had no control over any of it. I needed to estrange myself to save myself, the madness in the home had made me very physically and emotionally sick myself. (I had been hospitalised for a stress related illness and was down to 7 stone from stress and was extremely depressed and suicidal before I came round to looking after myself).

Everyone has to make individual choices. For me the only choice was to look after myself or to die trying to help people who didnt want to be helped. I am ok with that decision.

LegacyUser

Hi 123 - Thanks for your reply and your honesty. I have been to Alanon myself but just the once. Sorry to hear about your parents accident.

LegacyUser

Therapists for years have listened to patients blame parents for their problems. Now there is growing interest in the other side of the story: What about the suffering of parents who are estranged from their adult children?

While there are no official tallies of parents whose adult children have cut them off, there is no shortage of headlines. The Olympic gold medal skier Lindsey Vonn reportedly hasn’t spoken to her father in at least four years. The actor Jon Voight and his daughter, Angelina Jolie, were photographed together in February for the first time since they were estranged in 2002.

A number of Web sites and online chat rooms are devoted to the issue, with heartbreaking tales of children who refuse their parents’ phone calls and e-mail and won’t let them see grandchildren. Some parents seek grief counseling, while others fall into depression and even contemplate suicide.

Joshua Coleman, a San Francisco psychologist who is an expert on parental estrangement, says it appears to be growing more and more common, even in families who haven’t experienced obvious cruelty or traumas like abuse and addiction. Instead, parents often report that a once-close relationship has deteriorated after a conflict over money, a boyfriend or built-up resentments about a parent’s divorce or remarriage.

“We live in a culture that assumes if there is an estrangement, the parents must have done something really terrible,” said Dr. Coleman, whose book “When Parents Hurt” (William Morrow, 2007) focuses on estrangement. “But this is not a story of adult children cutting off parents who made egregious mistakes. It’s about parents who were good parents, who made mistakes that were certainly within normal limits.”

Dr. Coleman himself experienced several years of estrangement with his adult daughter, with whom he has reconciled. Mending the relationship took time and a persistent effort by Dr. Coleman to stay in contact. It also meant listening to his daughter’s complaints and accepting responsibility for his mistakes. “I tried to really get what her feelings were and tried to make amends and repair,” he said. “Over the course of several years, it came back slowly.”

Not every parent is so successful. Debby Kintner of Somerville, Tenn., sought grief counseling after her adult daughter, and only child, ended their relationship. “It hit me like a freight train,” she said. “I sit down and comb through my memories and try to figure out which day was it that it went wrong. I don’t know.”

Ms. Kintner talks of life as a single parent, raising an honor student who insisted her mother accompany her on a class trip to London, a college student who made frequent calls and visits home. Things changed after her daughter began an on-again, off-again relationship with a boyfriend and moved back home after becoming pregnant. Arguments about her daughter’s decision to move in with the man and Ms. Kintner’s refusal to give her daughter a car eventually led to estrangement. She now has no contact with her daughter or three grandchildren.

“I knew parents and children had fights, but there was enough love to come back together,” Ms. Kintner said. “This is your mother who gave you a nice life and loved you.’ “

Judith, a mother in Augusta, Ga., who asked that her last name not be used, tells of a loving, creative daughter who experienced a turbulent adolescence. At college graduation, the parents were shocked when their daughter unleashed an angry tirade about her childhood. Later, the daughter asked for financial help paying for an Ivy League graduate school. The parents agreed, but a visit to see her on the East Coast was marred by another round of harsh words and accusations. They withdrew their financial support and returned home.

“I’ve done a lot of crying,” said Judith, who has sought therapy to cope. “I’m very depressed. All the holidays are sad, and we don’t have any closure on this. She was so wanted. She was so loved. She still is loved. We want her in our life.”

Dr. Coleman says he believes parental estrangement is a “silent epidemic,” because many parents are ashamed to admit they’ve lost contact with their children.

Often, he said, parents in these situations give up too soon. He advises them to continue weekly letters, e-mail messages or phone calls even when they are rejected, and to be generous in taking responsibility for their mistakes — even if they did not seem like mistakes at the time.

After all, he went on, parents and children have very different perspectives. “It’s possible for a parent to feel like they were doing something out of love,” he said, “but it didn’t feel like love to that child.”

Friends, other family members and therapists can often help a parent cope with the loss of an estranged child. So can patience: reconciliation usually takes many conversations, not just one.

“When I was going through this, it was a gray cloud, a nightmare,” Dr. Coleman said. “Don’t just assume if your child is rejecting you that that’s the end of the conversation. Parents have to be on a campaign to let the child know that they’re in it for the long haul.”

caprilicious

The ironic thing is estrangement seems to be very common in Ireland within families, but as you said rosin it does seem to be a taboo, I'm suprised their isn't already an Irish support group.

I know of several families including my own where there is estrangement for one reason or another & it is such a sad thing to see.
In my family there are two brothers (My uncles) that haven't spoken in over 2 decades. The ridiculous thing is they both live in a small town, their kids go to the same schools.
It breaks my gran's heart that her son's wont talk & the sad thing is the only time they'll ever be in the same room is if my gran or grandad pass away, they couldn't not go to either funeral.

deisemum

I know of several people in my circle that have either a bad relationship with a parent or no relationship at all.

I could not fathom why my mother is the way she is until someone recently suggested I google narcissistic mothers which was so insightful, it described my mother to a t and triggered things that happened way back in my childhood that I had forgotten. I also made me realise I'm glad I haven't had anything to do with her in years.

cbyrd

caprilicious wrote: »

The ironic thing is estrangement seems to be very common in Ireland within families, but as you said rosin it does seem to be a taboo, I'm suprised their isn't already an Irish support group.

I know of several families including my own where there is estrangement for one reason or another & it is such a sad thing to see.
In my family there are two brothers (My uncles) that haven't spoken in over 2 decades. The ridiculous thing is they both live in a small town, their kids go to the same schools.
It breaks my gran's heart that her son's wont talk & the sad thing is the only time they'll ever be in the same room is if my gran or grandad pass away, they couldn't not go to either funeral.

i haven't spoken to my eldest brother in 7 years.. and we worked together for 17 years. his jealousy and the fact he found out the family business was going to be left to us both he just went mental. i couldn't afford to leave and then thought 'why should i?' i was more successful there than he was and it kind of gave me a laugh to see how angry he could get over nothing.

i left on christmas eve my baby's due date, i sold my house cos he managed to talk our parents into him taking over the business. he knew this would make my working there impossible, my dad had to leave last year cos of cancer and mam wanted to retire..so his grand plan was to take on new staff and be a huge sucess....

mam's still not retired.. he won't step up to the plate .. won't take on the new staff or anything. i'd have done it in a heartbeat. i have clients phoning me to come to my house.. they won't go there now i'm not there, this is not something i could have predicted..
he hasn't seen my new son or congratulated me.. i've invited them to the christening but was told more or less to f**k off by his wife.. his eldest son is coming with his girlfriend..:D
my parents can't understand why we don't speak.. but it was such a toxic relationship for my own sanity i have to pull the plug on it.. family gatherings are difficult but slowly the others are seeing what he's really like..(i've 6 brothers) and are having less and less to do with him.. he is the ultimate narcissist dog in a manger;) but i've come to the conculsion it's his loss..

LegacyUser

Two of my adult daughters are estranged from me. I did everything for them when their father died 15 years ago. Totally put them first and never refusing to do anything for them. I never asked for any help etc., There has been no reason for them disowning me. I lent one daughter my entire savings to help buy a house, car etc., and will never get that back. I never see 3 of my grandchildren. It all just happened and I was in total shock for a long time. I still cannot come to terms with it. I would love to talk to mothers in a similar situation in Ireland. As you say there are lots of people in USA online but hard to track down Irish women. I have know doubts I am not alone but when you chat with friends who have their families close to them you feel like the only person on earth and always feel so desolate and dishonest pretending all is ok.

wolfie1993

I know how you feel, the same thing is happening to me, just dont understand why it has happened.

cynder

My dad was estranged from his mother ( the evil cow) she disowned him he spent his life trying yo earn her love and approval, (she was evil). He died 2 years ago she never attended his funeral, she knew he was dying. My dad was no saint and as a teen there were times I hated him, until I realised the way he was, was because if his evil mother and father, alcohol was his only escape from his tortured childhood.

I got over my issues and had a good relationship with both my patents. I truly hope that I learn from my dysfunctional family and have a good relationship with my kids. Tbh I think we are very close nit so shouldn't be a problem.

For estrangement to happen there must be a reason, be it lack of love or hate, money, alcohol, jealousy, resentment and so on. if you know the reason you can work to a solution.

The Corinthian

Spicer74 wrote: »

Two of my adult daughters are estranged from me. I did everything for them when their father died 15 years ago. Totally put them first and never refusing to do anything for them. I never asked for any help etc., There has been no reason for them disowning me. I lent one daughter my entire savings to help buy a house, car etc., and will never get that back. I never see 3 of my grandchildren. It all just happened and I was in total shock for a long time. I still cannot come to terms with it. I would love to talk to mothers in a similar situation in Ireland. As you say there are lots of people in USA online but hard to track down Irish women. I have know doubts I am not alone but when you chat with friends who have their families close to them you feel like the only person on earth and always feel so desolate and dishonest pretending all is ok.

This is an interesting angle as typically estrangement would be seen as a result of something that the parent did/does (or not) do. For example, I know of a case where the two adult children of one woman are essentially estranged and she too would claim to have done everything for them, including financially. Yet she also is quite emotionally abusive, from what I've witnessed, and her sacrifices appeared as much to be a means of controlling her children to the point that she pretty much infantilized one of them.

My parenteral grandmother was another example of this, someone who would swear blind as to the sacrifices she made, but also practised serious parental alienation on my father, which he only came to realize when it was too late, and manipulated those around her ruthlessly. While my father was not fully estranged (he did his duty as an only son), there was little affection left when she died. He and I were the only two people present at her funeral from our family.

In neither case can/could either parent see or accept their part in this.

This is not to say that sometimes estrangement cannot work with the parent being more sinned against than sinning (especially if that parent was the target of parental alienation or the child is mentally ill), however it would seem almost bizarre that a child would freely choose to estrange themselves from a loving parent without cause; especially two children doing so.

More open discussion and examination would certainly be positive, but I'm not sure it would help. My experience is that people often cannot accept responsibility for their actions or inactions, which means that they will only ever seek validation from such groups and ultimately leave if their account of things is questioned.

wasabi

The Corinthian wrote: »

This is not to say that sometimes estrangement cannot work with the parent being more sinned against than sinning (especially if that parent was the target of parental alienation or the child is mentally ill), however it would seem almost bizarre that a child would freely choose to estrange themselves from a loving parent without cause; especially two children doing so.

More open discussion and examination would certainly be positive, but I'm not sure it would help. My experience is that people often cannot accept responsibility for their actions or inactions, which means that they will only ever seek validation from such groups and ultimately leave if their account of things is questioned.

Well put, The Corinthian. There is a good deal of estrangement in my family, and it's happened for different reasons, some good and some not so good.

I myself won't have anything to do with my mother anymore. She's extremely narcissistic, and, being my mother, she knows exactly how to push my buttons and suck me into her current crisis (there is always a crisis. Always). Frankly, she's probably mentally ill and despite my pleading with her on a number of occasions will not seek help beyond antidepressants from the GP. She has money to get private counselling or other treatment if she wishes.

She's never been particularly nice, but over the past decade she's become more and more socially isolated as she's lost her friends and contact with other family members. I was one of the last to cut contact with her because she'd come to rely on me to such a degree that the stress of dealing with her was making me unwell myself.

However, her side of it is that every neighbour she's had in three or four different places over the last 10 years have been out to get her; her whole family is mad and hates her for no good reason; and all her friends have stabbed her in the back. Absolutely no self-awareness of what she's like to deal with - it's amazing.

I consider cutting her off to be a form of emotional self-defense, if you will. Frankly, because she's made my life so miserable more or less since I can remember, I never really considered her my mum, in the way that other people have mums (as opposed to my mother, biologically). Emotionally I've gained rather than lost because of cutting her out of my life, it's been very positive. I do live with a bit of guilt due to it but honestly I've tried my best for her in the past and it makes no difference. She's the only one who can change her life, and she just can't see the problem.

The Corinthian

wasabi wrote: »

However, her side of it is that every neighbour she's had in three or four different places over the last 10 years have been out to get her; her whole family is mad and hates her for no good reason; and all her friends have stabbed her in the back. Absolutely no self-awareness of what she's like to deal with - it's amazing.

I remember, in my mid-twenties, arguing with my grandmother and eventually boxing her into a situation where I had logically demonstrated that numerous others had thought her wrong. So I asked her if everyone else in the World though her wrong and only she thought herself right, what would she conclude? Eventually she admitted that this would be that everyone else in the World was wrong.

As you suggested, mental illness; particularly borderline personality disorder, can often be at the core of the issue. And unfortunately there's not much you can do about such people, except keep them at a distance as much as is reasonably possible.

It's very difficult to tell the truth of a situation from one side of it. Sometimes you can, but such is the capacity of people to give 'edited' or even fabricated accounts that often we end up taking them at their word and simply re-enforcing their view through validation. And this is where I see the danger of such groups.

That's why I responded to that particular post, because in that case the fact that two children were both estranged caused me to question it. It was a mother with custody, so parental alienation was not a factor. And the probability of both children being mentally ill is fairly low. So I did feel the need to raise a question mark on the issue.

EGAR

I have cut off my mother in 1992. We were estranged before that and the last time I saw her was at my father's funeral in 1992.

I think it is far more common than people believe, I have no problem talking about it but a lot of people would not share this sort of private information.

LegacyUser

HI, WONDERING IF THERE IS ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS ESTRANGED FROM THEIR CHILDREN. MY DAUGHTER OPTED OUT OF MY LIFE NEARLY 2 YEARS AGO AND I HAVE NOT SEEN HER OR MY 4 GRANDCHILDREN SINCE. FINDING IT VERY HARD AS THERE IS NO REAL REASON FOR IT... CAN ANYONE HELP! THANKS IN ADVANCE. JOAN.