Should Chinese not be a Leaving Cert subject?

leonardjos

kermitpwee wrote: »

Yes I can understand this statement. Imo chinese has no valid place in the leaving cert as I can't see Ireland trading anyway siginificantly with China. I do realise that China is a significant force in the world economy. Imo China will not be sending any jobs to Ireland, they have cheap labour themselves. We dont make anything that they can use. Also they wont be buying services of us when there western educated people can provide them for them. Ireland has done well as it has been a gateway for the USA to get into europe, those days are gone, China wont be using us for
anything.

This is why I dont see how the introduction of Chinese in the leaving cert will boost our economy.

In the words of Faithless "You dont need eyes to see, you need vision!"

Chinese Company CIRS to Establish EU Headquarters in Dundalk with the Creation of 26 Jobs
24/09/09

Chinese company with headquarters in Hangzhou, one of China’s leading cities, is setting up its EU Headquarters at Finnabair Business Park in Dundalk, Co. Louth. The company is anticipated to employ up to 26 high-level positions over the next twelve months, for which it will recruit science graduates. The investment is supported by Government through IDA Ireland.

In 2006, IDA Ireland established its office in Shanghai to unlock a gateway for Chinese companies to expand and develop their businesses in Europe.

Jim Wei, Director, CIRS Ireland, said “CIRS is already a world leader in providing these services from our HQ in Hangzhou. REACH and the EU market is a key new market for us, and having weighed up the options in location, we believe that locating our European base in Ireland is very strategic, based on the skills sets of Ireland’s workforce, as well as the support shown to us by government and the business community.”

Finfacts Article Nov 5 2008

Considering the potential for Chinese investment in Ireland, Jim O'Hara, General Manager, Intel Ireland said, "A great opportunity for Ireland is to become a turn-key solution to enter Europe for Chinese firms. Ireland is very well versed in dealing with Europe. We could turn this into a massive opportunity. Ireland only needs a very small piece of the worldwide FDI pie to be very successful. We can offer expertise to China and many others to enter Europe, to establish their brands and gain financial, IP and legal support.

It's well known that Singapore and Hong Kong, due to their colonial English histories, are the established locations where Western multi-nationals base their Asian operations.

Chinese companies are increasing their direct exports to other countries including European. This is a shift away from Western companies simply sourcing their manufacturing from China. To successfully export to Europe they will need a European base, as many American companies already have in Ireland.

Just one example - Lenovo , a Chinese multinational, now the fourth largest seller of personal computers in the world. Lenovo acquired the former IBM PC Company Division, which marketed the ThinkPad line of notebook PCs, in 2005 for approximately $1.75 billion. They have a presense in Asia, Japan and the US but none in Europe yet. If we think another American computer company are going to come along to replace Dell, we'll be waiting. This will be the next big opportunity for the Irish computing sector. (Of course I'm referring to a sales, marketing, logistics HQ not a manufacturing base).

kermitpwee

leonardjos wrote: »

In the words of Faithless "You dont need eyes to see, you need vision!"

Chinese Company CIRS to Establish EU Headquarters in Dundalk with the Creation of 26 Jobs
24/09/09








Finfacts Article Nov 5 2008



It's well known that Singapore and Hong Kong, due to their colonial English histories, are the established locations where Western multi-nationals base their Asian operations.

Chinese companies are increasing their direct exports to other countries including European. This is a shift away from Western companies simply sourcing their manufacturing from China. To successfully export to Europe they will need a European base, as many American companies already have in Ireland.

Just one example - Lenovo , a Chinese multinational, now the fourth largest seller of personal computers in the world. Lenovo acquired the former IBM PC Company Division, which marketed the ThinkPad line of notebook PCs, in 2005 for approximately $1.75 billion. They have a presense in Asia, Japan and the US but none in Europe yet. If we think another American computer company are going to come along to replace Dell, we'll be waiting. This will be the next big opportunity for the Irish computing sector. (Of course I'm referring to a sales, marketing, logistics HQ not a manufacturing base).

Good points there. Didn't think China would be too bothered with Ireland but have been proven wrong.

getz

am i thick or what, isent there over 300 in the sino-tibeta family of languages ?with mandarin,and cantonese only two of them,so which chinese language should you learn ?

maninasia

You should learn Mandarin, any other dialect is a bonus but not neccessary. Chinese writing script and grammar is shared across all the dialects, that is the secret of how they communicate with each other smoothly.

Learning Chinese is good for the Irish economy but more importantly it will be good for your individual career in the long run. It's a commitment though just like learning any language. It's also not enough to have a successful career, you should also have a core skill.

There are many goods and services Irish firms can trade with China. For example NZ's no.1 export market for it's agricultural goods is China. That shows the potential in that sector alone. If you want to SELL something to somebody it helps an awful lot if you SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE. This is just pure common sense. There is a large middle class in China that is willing to buy better quality products, novel products or branded products, plenty of market there waiting to be exploited.

Most Asian companies so far tend to locate their European regional offices in Belgium, Holland and Germany due to transport links and educational and trade exchanges. Ireland needs a direct flight from China to help to compete on that score.

leonardjos

A third of bosses want Chinese taught in schools by John Walshe, November 26 2009

Its seems that this idea may be slowing gathering some support...

A THIRD of employers want Irish students to learn Chinese.

New research published yesterday reveals a lack of language skills is hampering business with China.

It found one-in-three employers think Mandarin Chinese should be on the Junior and Leaving Cert curriculum.

The research, undertaken by the Chinese studies department at UCD, reveals almost 13pc of all secondary schools in the UK provide Mandarin teaching, but Chinese is not an option on the Irish curriculum

The research, which was launched by Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin, recommends a longer-term sustainable approach which works towards the development of Chinese as a full-time subject. Learning from the experiences of other countries, it recommends the sharing of teachers between schools, enabling them to be offered full-time contracts so that quality staff are attracted and maintained.

poncho000

I hope they DONT introduce it. Why? becasue i am young and currently learning chinese and in the next few years china will be big and strong and chinese will be an important language. So I want to have an advantage by being able to speak chinese while other people can't

Powerhouse

poncho000 wrote: »

I hope they DONT introduce it. Why? becasue i am young and currently learning chinese and in the next few years china will be big and strong and chinese will be an important language. So I want to have an advantage by being able to speak chinese while other people can't

You will have the advantage of being able to go and work in China if you can speak Chinese. But the idea that a working knowledge of Chinese will be required to work for a Chinese multi-national in Ireland is delusional - if they need fluent Chinese speakers they can import plenty. They will never need to rely on locals for that. Luckily for the Irish English is the international language and that won't change. There are more English speakers in China than anywhere else. We have little cause to learn any other international language for business - as distinct from cultural - purposes.

And anyway if people want a working grasp of Chinese they will have to study it outside school which is not a place designed to achieve fluency in any language. Look how limited the vocabulary of many kids is even in English on leaving school.

Dionysus

I'd rather learn Tibetan.

poncho000

Powerhouse wrote: »

You will have the advantage of being able to go and work in China if you can speak Chinese. But the idea that a working knowledge of Chinese will be required to work for a Chinese multi-national in Ireland is delusional - if they need fluent Chinese speakers they can import plenty. They will never need to rely on locals for that. Luckily for the Irish English is the international language and that won't change. There are more English speakers in China than anywhere else. We have little cause to learn any other international language for business - as distinct from cultural - purposes.

And anyway if people want a working grasp of Chinese they will have to study it outside school which is not a place designed to achieve fluency in any language. Look how limited the vocabulary of many kids is even in English on leaving school.

You're right, thats why im going to china in the next 2 years. In the next few years China will be a very desirable place to work, much like america was a few years ago and Australia is now. So by learning chinese I will be able to move there and live comfortably. Thats why I dont want other people learning chinese because then there would a big influx of westerners going to China.
If they introduce chinese to the LC it may spark interest in our young people and I dont want this. I want China all to myself

leonardjos

Powerhouse wrote: »

Luckily for the Irish English is the international language and that won't change.

So we don't need to learn any other languages because we speak English, and so there is no point teaching or learning them?

Do you really think that people cannot improve their employment, career or business prospects by learning a second language (even if they never become fluent in it)?

Would you also be in favour of removing French, German and the other foreign languages from schools?

Powerhouse

leonardjos wrote: »

1) So we don't need to learn any other languages because we speak English,

2) and so there is no point teaching or learning them?

3) Do you really think that people cannot improve their employment, career or business prospects by learning a second language (even if they never become fluent in it)?

4) Would you also be in favour of removing French, German and the other foreign languages from schools?

1) Exactly - unless like the other poster you are determined to emigrate to a particular country. But broadly speaking we don't need any language other than English as it is the universal language.

2) This is in fact a separate question. Many people would maintain that there are many personal benefits from learning another language. What I am arguing is that there is no need to do so. I got good honours French for my Leaving Cert and never found any practical use for it in my life. Even when I went to France people in hotels etc. were able to converse in English.

3) Let's get real here, for the vast majority of jobs a second language is irrelevant unless you want to teach the language or are emigrating. And certainly a second language it is not worth a damn in practical terms unless one achieves fluency.

4) Not at all, I would be in favour of their retention as long as we don't delude ourselves by what this actually means. I think exposition to languages and by extention other cultures in schools helps to broaden minds and see how the other half lives which is what education should be about in my view.

What I strongly object to is the view that the learning of any language in a secondary school setting is capable of preparing someone for gaining employment using that language as a major selling point. If an employer wants someone with a language they will look for a native speaker, or a university graduate or someone who has near native proficiency. If the employer does not require someone with a language then by definition it is no advantage.

But secondary school language learning has massive limitations. If you want to learn a language you go to the place it is spoken and you immerse yourself. Otherwise it is a waste of time in terms of achieving a working grasp of it. I know French people who studied English at second-level school in France and it was a waste of time (in terms of achieveing anything that could be passed off as fluency) but they now speak quite decent English having lived in Ireland.

maninasia

Learning Chinese is very time intensive, getting a head start in reading and writing and speaking basic Chinese in secondary school would be an excellent introduction to the language, the individual learner takes it from there just like any other language.

General General

Likely a better return on investment from learning French, Spanish, Portuguese, even Hindi/Urdu or Russian...