Republican party ; a vital faultline?

Pocono Joe

jank wrote: »

There has been a bit of socialism in the US since the new deal but didnt see anyone complaining until Obama went into office.

True, but the attitude of folks now might just be shifting and reflective in the immortal words of Popeye the Sailor Man: “That’s all I can takes, and I can’t takes no more.”

Good to have you back and judging by your recent post you have been turned into a Glenn Beck advocate. I suppose you when you were taking time out from boards.ie you were catching up on his latest weeping session.

How so, pray tell? Like most Conservatives, I work for a living and don’t get the opportunity to watch or listen to Glenn Beck?

Overheal wrote: »

Im sorry I couldnt hear you over the sound of my own fantasy with that cute girl dressed as a german beermaiden last night.

So yeah, you might have a point.

See, spoken like a true politician... you don’t really knows what he means by what he says. And stay away from the Brünnhilde types, it will only haunt your future political career.

Black Swan

Overheal wrote: »

No Im starting to wonder if 2012 isn't going to be the year when a new Third Party emerges with enough momentum.

Rather than growth in a third party, methinks that there will be a steady growth in Independents fueled by increasing information access found on the web, and the constant factual debunking of both Democrat and Republican platforms and candidates, exposing many of their leaders as silly cartoon action heroes created by biased media talking heads and party spin masters with large bank rolls.

Overheal

We can dream.

Manic Moran

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Rather than growth in a third party, methinks that there will be a steady growth in Independents fueled by increasing information access found on the web,

Doesn't solve the root problem. The Independents will still be forced to make a choice between either a D or R candidate.

NTM

Overheal

What did I see on CNN tonight there was a Republican, A Democrat and a Conservative on the magic wall. What did I miss?

Anyway, seems like the Republicans stole back Virginia.

jank

Looks likes the Dems won NY race. Thats the issue of splitting the vote, the other guys usually win.

kev9100

first post in a while be kind



the reason Hoffman lost is that he was a TERRIBLE candidate. He made Palin look good on the issues The republican party has no future if they think that hoffman, palin and Limbaugh are the future of the party.

jank

So where now for the GOP?

Pocono Joe

kev9100 wrote: »

first post in a while be kind

the reason Hoffman lost is that he was a TERRIBLE candidate. He made Palin look good on the issues The republican party has no future if they think that hoffman, palin and Limbaugh are the future of the party.

You asked to be treaded kindly and then go on to post that kind of nonsense… are you kidding me!

Well okay . So why do you feel Hoffman was a terrible candidate, other than the fact he’s not a politician and had an un-politician style? Is it because he ran out of conscience because he was fed up with what was happening to our country? Because he was fed up with the out-of-control spending, taxes, and government regulations on individuals and business? Because he thought somebody had to step up and do something about it? Or is it becasue of something else?

Here is where he stood on the key issues in the campaign… doesn’t sound too terrible to me as a Conservative.
http://www.doughoffmanforcongress.com/issues.html

He also had been endorsed by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey, Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, Sen. Jim DeMint, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, former National Republican Congressional Campaign chairmen John Linder and Tom Cole just to name a few. The complete list of Hoffman endorsers is a long one, and seems to include nearly every Republican except Newt Gingrich and Dede Scozzafava. Not bad, not bad at all!

(That wasn’t tooooooooo rough was it?)

JohnMc1

kev9100 wrote: »

first post in a while be kind

Not going to happen.

the reason Hoffman lost is that he was a TERRIBLE candidate. He made Palin look good on the issues The republican party has no future if they think that hoffman, palin and Limbaugh are the future of the party.

For a guy who never held a Political office ever to lose by a close margin the guy must have done something right.

Pocono Joe

jank wrote: »

So where now for the GOP?

Lets see, jugding by New Jersey and Virginia... back into office?

jank

Well judging what happened in NY it look like the party doesnt know what way to go. Go right you scare moderates and independant, stay centre right you pi$$ off the tea party guys.... Not exactly a way to win national elections.

kev9100

Pocono Joe wrote: »

(That wasn’t tooooooooo rough was it?)

no that was just fine:)

I`m sorry but hoffman lost a seat that the republicans had held since 19th freakin century and to a democratic candidate that frankly was pretty poor himself. If the Repblican party wants to be taken seriously again they must get rid of the Palins, Vitters, Coulters and Limbaughs and start attracting moderates.

Pocono Joe

NY23 had more plot twists than a Shakespearean comedy. I don’t think you can use it to gauge anything.

Personally speaking, a lot of the time it seems when Republicans run as moderates, they lose. When they run as Conservatives, they win.

And before you start dancing a jig on the grave of the GOP, read this:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2009/11/my_favorite_postelection_meme.html

kev9100

fair enough ny 23 was not a normal race but the fact is that the republicans were almost certainly going to win until the loony toons came to town:D and started pushing for hoffman. The same thing is happening in Florida in the primary race between Crist and Rubio.

Black Swan

From the Real Clear Poltics link by PJ, this statement has been often key to a Republican win in past elections: "the GOP's divisions - whatever they may be - are utterly, totally dwarfed by the continuing divisions in the Democratic Party."

But a Republican Congressional sweep in the 2010 mid-term elections is probably no more than a fantasy, especially if this July 2009 to present trend continues:

"For the third straight month, the number of Americans identifying themselves as Democrats inched up while the number of Republicans fell slightly. In October, 37.8% of American adults considered themselves Democrats. That’s up three-tenths of a point from September and a full-percentage point since July..."

"Still, there are more Democrats than Republicans. A total of 31.9% now claim an affiliation with the GOP. That’s down a point-and-a-half since July 2009 and the lowest number of Republicans since July 2008."

"The number of unaffiliated adults [Independents] held steady in October at 30.3%..."

"Democrats now enjoy a 5.9 percentage-point edge over Republicans. That’s up two-and-a-half points since July and confirms other recent polling that suggests Democrats fell to low levels of support in July but have gained back some of their losses since then."

Source: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/partisan_trends

If the USA does not experience a double-dip recession between now and the mid-term November 2010 elections, but rather continues to improve economically (especially if unemployment starts to improve beginning mid-2010), there will be no recapture of the US House or US Senate by Republicans as occurred half-way through the Clinton presidency. Rather, the Democrats will retain control, benefiting from the old saying: "It's the economy stupid!"

Manic Moran

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

there will be no recapture of the US House or US Senate by Republicans as occurred half-way through the Clinton presidency. Rather, the Democrats will retain control, benefiting from the old saying: "It's the economy stupid!"

Never forget the ability of the Democrats to martyr themselves on some pointless cause, such as happened half-way through the Clinton presidency.

NTM

Black Swan

All the partisan political rhetoric between the talking heads of the Republican and Democrat parties will be meaningless should the below recovery trend of the Dow Industrials continue between now and the mid-term elections November 2010. If the Dow does continue to recover, the Democrats will claim credit and be rewarded, even though the recovery would probably have occurred no matter whom was in control of the Presidency and US Congress.

---

DJ-30.gif

LostinKildare

Manic Moran wrote: »

Never forget the ability of the Democrats to martyr themselves on some pointless cause, such as happened half-way through the Clinton presidency.

NTM

Which pointless cause was that -- the right to an extramarital BJ? You gotta fight for your right to paaaarrrrty!

Pocono Joe

Most everything BL stated is unfortunately true. Yet New Jersey happens! It just goes to show voter attitudes sometimes defy conventional political wisdom. It also shows Barack Obama’s popularity is not transferable, and this worries Democrats up for election. The likes of Pelosi, Reed, Dodd, and Frank are in their mid to upper 60’s and won’t mind sacrificing minions in their final quest for the Holy Grail – a far left progressive agenda. But moderate democrats in republican strongholds and Blue Dogs might not be willing to throw themselves on their swords if voter attitudes sour towards the Left’s far reaching agenda. And rather than singing “You gotta fight for your right to paaaarrrrty,” the tune sung by voters come 2010 might be “We won’t get fooled again.”

If the Democrats fail in their attempt to nationalize illegal aliens into their party, and unemployment remains above 10% regardless of growth numbers, I think we just might see a transformation of the House and Senate, led by Independent voters.

And what pointless cause could the Democrats decide to martyr themselves on? Could it be:

• The House Health Care Bill's $1.5 trillion-dollar price tag (yep that’s right… because the final version of the House bill lacked the doctor payment fix, because Democrats didn’t want to add several more hundred pages to the bill and another $250 billion to the cost of H.R. 3962. A separate bill that would replace the sustainable growth rate (SGR) formula is expected to come to a vote next week). A bill which not only fails to address health-care costs, but will diminish Americans’ control over their health care decisions, reduce seniors’ Medicare benefits, place far too many jobs in jeopardy, and slow our nation’s economic growth. Or could it simply be the Public Option or Abortion components?
• Cap and Trade?
• Card Check?
• Another stimulus package for old school social pork, which will again do nothing to create private sector jobs?
• Expanding federal powers?
• Or some other yet to be determined Obama bait and switch program?

Then again 2010 might just simply boil down to "It's the economy stupid!"

Manic Moran

LostinKildare wrote: »

Which pointless cause was that -- the right to an extramarital BJ? You gotta fight for your right to paaaarrrrty!

Firearms. Democrats have never recovered from that one, and tiptoe around the issue still today.

NTM

LostinKildare

Manic Moran wrote: »

Firearms. Democrats have never recovered from that one, and tiptoe around the issue still today.

NTM

Ah, that. Yeah I think that tiptoeing will continue for the long-term foreseeable future.

Pocono Joe

Looks like times they are a-chanin’. It appears Republicans have moved ahead of Democrats by 48% to 44% among registered voters in the latest poll by Gallup on a generic congressional ballot for the 2010 House elections.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124226/Republicans-Edge-Ahead-Democrats-2010-Vote.aspx

kev9100

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Looks like times they are a-chanin’. It appears Republicans have moved ahead of Democrats by 48% to 44% among registered voters in the latest poll by Gallup on a generic congressional ballot for the 2010 House elections.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124226/Republicans-Edge-Ahead-Democrats-2010-Vote.aspx

This has to act as a wake up call for the Dems. Do something or your gonna be out of a job.


P.s Mr Reid, ever hear of reconciliation for health care?

Pocono Joe

kev9100 wrote: »

This has to act as a wake up call for the Dems. Do something or your gonna be out of a job.

I hate to admit it but Pennsylvania Governor Fast Eddy Rendell had a pretty good idea on Meet the Press last Sunday. He advised that Congress should quickly redirect stimulus monies and front-load many of those dollars on infrastructure projects that will have an immediate impact on the economy, unlike their initial stimulus influx which merely served as payoffs to the public-employees unions. But considering their current leadership, I bet that's not something the Democrats are willing to do. Lookin’ like the Democratic party is becoming the party of DOH (to borrow line from the Simpsons).

JohnMc1

kev9100 wrote: »

fair enough ny 23 was not a normal race but the fact is that the republicans were almost certainly going to win until the loony toons came to town:D and started pushing for hoffman. The same thing is happening in Florida in the primary race between Crist and Rubio.

Scozafavva was as much of a liberal [if not more] than the Democrat candidate. The 2008 Election proved that voters will not support Liberal Republicans. McCain is the poster boy for "We don't want Liberal-Light"

Pocono Joe wrote:

Looks like times they are a-chanin’. It appears Republicans have moved ahead of Democrats by 48% to 44% among registered voters in the latest poll by Gallup on a generic congressional ballot for the 2010 House elections.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124226/Re...2010-Vote.aspx

So much for that Republicans and Conservatives are dying out garbage. Is that new voters? Voters changing party or a combination of both? My web browser closed the page before I could thooughly read it.

Pocono Joe

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Scozafavva was as much of a liberal [if not more] than the Democrat candidate. The 2008 Election proved that voters will not support Liberal Republicans. McCain is the poster boy for "We don't want Liberal-Light"

Looks like NY23 isn't quite over yet. Problems with the counts, and there is still a slim chance for Hoffman to win.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/its_not_over_recanvassing_shows_ny23_race.html

So much for that Republicans and Conservatives are dying out garbage. Is that new voters? Voters changing party or a combination of both? My web browser closed the page before I could thooughly read it.

The shift is primarily caused by Indepentents. They now would go with Democrats 30% and Republicans 52%.
Dems go 91% Dem, 6% Rep. And Reps go 5% Dem and 93% Rep.

JohnMc1

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Looks like NY23 isn't quite over yet. Problems with the counts, and there is still a slim chance for Hoffman to win.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/its_not_over_recanvassing_shows_ny23_race.html

Thanks for that PJ. If Hoffman ends up winning will they be able to remove Owens? I thought one they are sworn in they can't be removed.

The shift is primarily caused by Indepentents. They now would go with Democrats 30% and Republicans 52%.
Dems go 91% Dem, 6% Rep. And Reps go 5% Dem and 93% Rep.

Thanks for those numbers PJ.

norbert64

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Looks like NY23 isn't quite over yet. Problems with the counts, and there is still a slim chance for Hoffman to win.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/its_not_over_recanvassing_shows_ny23_race.html

What, no mention of ACORN in that piece? :rolleyes:

Getting back to the OP, it seemed rather strange that even after Scozzafava quit the race, she apparently got 5% of the vote, lol.

Also, they are now starting to censure there Senators for not towing the line. :eek:
http://www.thestate.com/politics/story/1022682.html

Manic Moran

I think it's "Toeing the line"

i.e. everyone lines up with their toes next to a painted white line on the floor. Very common in the military to ensure uniformity.

NTM