The real RDF

dtgk1987

I joined what was then called the F.C.A back in 2004 when I was aged 17. I thought it would give me an insight into how the military worked and that it would give me some combat training. Boy how wrong I was!

The R.D.F is a complete joke and insults Oglaigh na hEireann the Irish Defence Forces. It has only dawned on me in the last couple of months how much of a waste of time and taxpayers money it is.

Let me take you back to the summer of 2004. I along with the rest of the RDF recruits were bussed off to a barracks which I shall not name. Here we were meant to start our ‘basic training’. For one week our basic training was the following, stripping and assembling the Styer assault rifle and marching. That was all we did for one full week. This was a sham, our NCOs’ did not no what they were they doing at all. Our platoon commander a Captain commissioned into the Defence Forces by the President of Ireland was non existent. They were more concerned with going to the mess and keeping the PDF staff happy. I shall get on to the role of the PDF staff attached to RDF units later. Our basic training was an insult to soldiers the world over. It was farcical when you see the hardship that the PDF recruit goes through.

Now lets move forward to after my ‘recruit training’. Summer annual camp. This is the highlight of the RDF calendar. Formally two weeks of ‘soldiering’. Which for my unit has been changed to one week and modular weekends. For me my first annual camp was o.k. purely because we got to see the special forces training and got a spin in an Air Corps chopper and the new APC’s. Now annual camp is the same thing over and over again. When your training finishes most days at 4pm, you have two options, wait till the mess opens and drink or sit in the billet and watch the four walls close in around you. I know in my unit there is no provision for other forms of entertainment.

Those who bring cars to camp are lucky to escape the camp after training. Oh yes another point, cars on annual camp. A bone of contention with members. From what I have been told when PDF soldiers are in camp and training they are not allowed bring civilian cars, they must make do with military transport. But this isn’t the way for RDF ‘soldiers’ they must have their cars on camp even if they no they shouldn’t. this bring to the point that the R.D.F ‘soldiers’ what to be treated like their PDF counterparts on one hand and differently on the other. I want to spend more on this subject later.

Week night training is probably the reason why my eyes were opened up to the sham of the RDF. In one word I can sum up our officers and NCOs’. That word is absent. On an average weeknight our NCOs’ are not there and the same for our officers. Surely those who have moved up the through the chain of command should be there to train in the knowledge they have gained as officers and NCOs’. This is not so. Our weeknight training doesn’t happen if one our officers doesn’t turn up. If this happens we spend the night standing around in the uniform of the Irish army doing nothing. I did not join the RDF to do this. The only things I have learned on a weeknight training is from other privates that have a vested interest in it. It really brought it home to me how much our NCOs’ were wasters on two occasions;

The first was when a senior NCO sat us down in the hall and gave a big speech about how things were going to change. After this ‘inspiring’ speech , what did we do for the rest of the night? Absolutely nothing. The second occasion happened on my most recent camp. It was the final day of camp on barracks. We were told to clean our billets. So while the rest of us cleaned the billets a NCO who’s rank I will not name, decided it was o.k. for him to lay on his bed and drink from a large bottle of cider. I would just like to say that you would get in serious trouble for drinking in uniform in a billet where all food and drink is banned. Nothing was said to him by superior ranks and I am sure if I had said something to our PDF staff I would have been told where to go. It would shock you the things that are swept under the carpet.

Its seems to me that a lot of senior RDF members want all the equipment and uniforms that the PDF have but are not willing to do the training. I cringe when I think of what would happen if RDF personnel were put into a real combat scenario. Yet there are members out there who think they will be deployed overseas. Maybe not now due to the recession but when times were better that was the common them for RDF members.

My final point on the RDF is this. I am a private. In order for me to become an NCO I must go on potential NCO course, known as a pots course. In the last two years or more no body from my unit has passed out from the pots course due to one reason and it’s a taboo subject within some RDF circles. This reason is FITNESS. When you join the RDF you must pass a medical exam. Which is simple to do. To join the PDF you must pass an interview, medical and fitness test. There is no fitness test for RDF members. But in order for me to become an NCO I have to pass one. So do u think there is time allotted to us to train physically. The answer is no. A PDF soldier has access to a gym on barracks and allotted hours for fitness training. My point is some idiot in RDF Training authority thought it would be a bright idea to bring in fitness tests for courses even though you are not required to be physically fit in the RDF. If you question this you are told it is an operational matter. The buzz words of the PDF staff basically telling you where to go.

Thank you for reading this.

McArmalite

dtgk1987 wrote: »

I joined what was then called the F.C.A back in 2004 when I was aged 17. I thought it would give me an insight into how the military worked and that it would give me some combat training. Boy how wrong I was!

The R.D.F is a complete joke and insults Oglaigh na hEireann the Irish Defence Forces. It has only dawned on me in the last couple of months how much of a waste of time and taxpayers money it is.

Let me take you back to the summer of 2004. I along with the rest of the RDF recruits were bussed off to a barracks which I shall not name. Here we were meant to start our ‘basic training’. For one week our basic training was the following, stripping and assembling the Styer assault rifle and marching. That was all we did for one full week. This was a sham, our NCOs’ did not no what they were they doing at all. Our platoon commander a Captain commissioned into the Defence Forces by the President of Ireland was non existent. They were more concerned with going to the mess and keeping the PDF staff happy. I shall get on to the role of the PDF staff attached to RDF units later. Our basic training was an insult to soldiers the world over. It was farcical when you see the hardship that the PDF recruit goes through.

Now lets move forward to after my ‘recruit training’. Summer annual camp. This is the highlight of the RDF calendar. Formally two weeks of ‘soldiering’. Which for my unit has been changed to one week and modular weekends. For me my first annual camp was o.k. purely because we got to see the special forces training and got a spin in an Air Corps chopper and the new APC’s. Now annual camp is the same thing over and over again. When your training finishes most days at 4pm, you have two options, wait till the mess opens and drink or sit in the billet and watch the four walls close in around you. I know in my unit there is no provision for other forms of entertainment.

Those who bring cars to camp are lucky to escape the camp after training. Oh yes another point, cars on annual camp. A bone of contention with members. From what I have been told when PDF soldiers are in camp and training they are not allowed bring civilian cars, they must make do with military transport. But this isn’t the way for RDF ‘soldiers’ they must have their cars on camp even if they no they shouldn’t. this bring to the point that the R.D.F ‘soldiers’ what to be treated like their PDF counterparts on one hand and differently on the other. I want to spend more on this subject later.

Week night training is probably the reason why my eyes were opened up to the sham of the RDF. In one word I can sum up our officers and NCOs’. That word is absent. On an average weeknight our NCOs’ are not there and the same for our officers. Surely those who have moved up the through the chain of command should be there to train in the knowledge they have gained as officers and NCOs’. This is not so. Our weeknight training doesn’t happen if one our officers doesn’t turn up. If this happens we spend the night standing around in the uniform of the Irish army doing nothing. I did not join the RDF to do this. The only things I have learned on a weeknight training is from other privates that have a vested interest in it. It really brought it home to me how much our NCOs’ were wasters on two occasions;

The first was when a senior NCO sat us down in the hall and gave a big speech about how things were going to change. After this ‘inspiring’ speech , what did we do for the rest of the night? Absolutely nothing. The second occasion happened on my most recent camp. It was the final day of camp on barracks. We were told to clean our billets. So while the rest of us cleaned the billets a NCO who’s rank I will not name, decided it was o.k. for him to lay on his bed and drink from a large bottle of cider. I would just like to say that you would get in serious trouble for drinking in uniform in a billet where all food and drink is banned. Nothing was said to him by superior ranks and I am sure if I had said something to our PDF staff I would have been told where to go. It would shock you the things that are swept under the carpet.

Its seems to me that a lot of senior RDF members want all the equipment and uniforms that the PDF have but are not willing to do the training. I cringe when I think of what would happen if RDF personnel were put into a real combat scenario. Yet there are members out there who think they will be deployed overseas. Maybe not now due to the recession but when times were better that was the common them for RDF members.

My final point on the RDF is this. I am a private. In order for me to become an NCO I must go on potential NCO course, known as a pots course. In the last two years or more no body from my unit has passed out from the pots course due to one reason and it’s a taboo subject within some RDF circles. This reason is FITNESS. When you join the RDF you must pass a medical exam. Which is simple to do. To join the PDF you must pass an interview, medical and fitness test. There is no fitness test for RDF members. But in order for me to become an NCO I have to pass one. So do u think there is time allotted to us to train physically. The answer is no. A PDF soldier has access to a gym on barracks and allotted hours for fitness training. My point is some idiot in RDF Training authority thought it would be a bright idea to bring in fitness tests for courses even though you are not required to be physically fit in the RDF. If you question this you are told it is an operational matter. The buzz words of the PDF staff basically telling you where to go.

Thank you for reading this.

Jayus, seems the good old FCAAAHHHH hasn't changed one bit since my days I thought that things got improved since it had been changed to the Reserve etc but definetly not if this person is anything to go by. Joking aside, it is an awful way that it's run, especially those who would like to do some relaistic and worthwhile training. But it's typical of anything run by the state, useless good for nothing incompetence and cronyism.

" So while the rest of us cleaned the billets a NCO who’s rank I will not name, decided it was o.k. for him to lay on his bed and drink from a large bottle of cider. " Well that's the FCA for you alright

Well I hope the others can give you some good advice, all I can say and I'm not trying to put you down or anything, is maybe join a Martial Arts club like Karate or Judo or whatever. Will test you much more than the sandbaggers and definetly will keep you fit.

McArmalite

Just how appalingly bad is the FCAAAA compared to reserve in other parts of the world ?

dtgk1987

the T.A in the U.K actually serve overseas along with the U.S national guard. these guys are actually combat trained. I know most T.A NCOs' are ex army unlike the RDF

pmg58

I'll agree that theres plenty of wasters in the organisation, but your unit sounds worse than most. I did integrated training and it was a real eye opener, completely different, much harder but much more enjoyable. Unfortunately the uptake was disappointing (understatment!) and worse than that, a number of senior people took every opportunity to bad mouth it.

But Jesus Christ, I can't believe you're whining about fitness! Just get out and go for a run 2 or 3 times a week, how hard is that? How do you expect to be an NCO if you never take the initiative to do things? Its your own responsibility to get fit, just because you didn't have to pass a fitness test to get in doesn't mean you need someone to take you for PT a few times a week.

zuroph

theres good and bad units, I know of a unit with NCOs taking the privates out on fitness training on night before weeknight training, in their free time. The camp has always been effectively run, and the soldiers take a great sense of pride in their uniform, and in finding new and interesting classes to take.
If you don't like it, get fit, pass the NCO course, and start changing it from the inside, thats what these NCO's did, and its working fantastically.

dtgk1987

im not whinig about the fitness test. i have trained my self actually. one person cannot change a whole unit

pmg58

Sorry I guess I misunderstood you. I think there should be an entry fitness test just like the PDF, and annual fitness tests. But people will have to be responsible for their own training most of the time. It just isn't feasible to devote a large portion of our already limited training time for PT. People should be educated on fitness and health, healthy eating etc of course but then they'll have to make the most of it.

One person can make more of a difference than you think, a good NCO will inspire some of the others to improve themselves, and when the Privates he trains come to getting promoted themselves, they'll hopefully follow the example he sets. These things take time, but thats no reason to give up without even trying.

zuroph

dtgk1987 wrote: »

im not whinig about the fitness test. i have trained my self actually. one person cannot change a whole unit

they can, it just takes time. but why not train up with someone else and get them through too. you're not the only one feeling like this

pmg58

Also, good to see you're training yourself, keep it up and you'll pass the fitness test with no problem.

dtgk1987

i agree lads. it does take two or three good nco's to train the privates but we still meet brick walls with our officers and cadre staff. the RDF does have potential. Its just down to the members. I agree there should be a fitness test to enter and yearly ones after that like the PDF. i no its never gonna be the same as the PDF but it shuould be very close.

zuroph

cadre and officers eventually cave to repeated pressure, and to seeing a unit being drilled hard and being very dedicated.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Brings back memories, soooo - things haven't changed one bit!.

Regarding your fitness, well likewise with PDF members thats something you really should work on in your own time if work doesn't allow it.

Sorry to hear things are still pretty much the same in the RDF as they were in my FCA days some 30 yrs ago.

Snakes

I'm in a similar boat to you mate, joined in 2004 at the age of 17, still in now. However, my expierience has, at times, been very different to yours. On my recruit camps at easter and summer 2005 we weren't allowed bring our own transport, were allowed to go to the mess only once and our nco's and platoon officer were always hovering around. Before i'd even gone on the camps i'd had footdrill and the basics drilled into me consistently every wednesday night. As I recall, our units officers and nco's turned up almost to a man every week. A few of the corporals who trained us on our recruit camp were attached to us from a different battalion and I still rate them as some of the finest soldiers i've seen in the RDF.

Bring on the re-org and new units and all that and I believe standards began slipping, in my unit anyway. Easter parade in '06 was an exception to this and was one of the highlights of my time in the fca.
Spring it forward a few years and I went on my pots course. This opened my eyes as some of the lads on the course from a different battalion had done training my unit would never have done. They were also extremely capable soldiers and this would eventually be seen when the course placings were released. Incidentally they were all from the same(re-orged) unit that those corporals I mentioned earlier were from.

In my opinion, and others I have spoken to, there is a vast gulf in standards between units in the FCA/RDF. It is obvious based on what you have written above that you got snared in one of the bad ones, very bad ones. While I know the RDF is far from perfect and I could type all night about the faults and failings, I also believe there are many units out there with people who are doing and trying their best within their units.

McArmalite

Just wondering, I used to be in an Infantry battalion and it was rumour that Engineering, Artillery, Cavalry FCA battalions etc were much more professional. Also heard that battalions from the larger towns and city's could be more picky about who they had in it and hence were better, unlike where I was from, small towns and villages along the border, and they took just about anyone to make up the required numbers.

Also, would An Slua Muirí be much more professional ?

dtgk1987

well im from one of those untis thats not infantry and i can tell you that some of our officers are good but our ncos at a unit level not a brigade/regiment etc are general a disgrace to their uniform. These men and woman get sent on courses and then they never turn in during the week to train is with the knowledge they have gained.

Im not sure about the naval reserve they might be a bit more professional because they is only a couple of hundred in it.

diverdriver

When I was in the FCA standards varied widely even in our battalion. The company I was in worked very hard to maintain standards. We were well disciplined and had good NCOs and officers. Others not so. Interesting to see that hasn't changed much in certain units. We sometimes had officers and NCO from other units come to us. The gulf in quality was quite evident. I remember once on our first camp, our PDF cadre sergeant became enraged by my recruit platoon's sloppy standards. He was like the DS in 'Full Metal Jacket' There were two recruit platoons that year. He dragged us all out of bed at six in the morning and chased us back and forth across the square in Gormanston. Amusingly the FCA duty officer of the day from another unit, stopped him and told him to be quiet as he would wake up people sleeping.

They should inspect RDF units and any that fail to meet minimum standards should be told to shape up. It's not the bloody boy scouts.

SamuelFox

OP, I could have written that post when I joined the RDF more than a decade ago, and while I’d love to be an grizzled old timer and say it gets better, I can’t because it doesn’t!

First thing you need to do is consider transferring Units. If you live in an urban area with a good choice then this should be easy. You might be lucky and get into a unit that takes things seriously; however, units take their personalities from the CO and the units you see now as very professional could go rapidly downhill if there is a change of CO – mine did!

Second point is about the re-org. I’ve done my time pre and post re-org, and despite all the resources that were thrown at the FCA/RDF the organisation now is less effective than it was in the days of the green uniforms. This, in my humble opinion, is because the PDF attitude was “we want part time professionals” and anyone not willing to make huge sacrifices in their civilian lives wouldn’t hack it. Consequently a huge number of good guys, particularly Officers and SNCOs left, and those that remained were the ones we really didn’t want. We lost guys who were successful in civilian life, able people who brought managerial experience to the organisation but weren’t able to make the type of commitment being discussed. We were left with people who didn’t have that experience, and lacked managerial ability and often basic social skills. Added to that I firmly believe that the failure to re-org the Cadre added hugely to the problem – the master plan (RDFRIP) envisaged huge improvements in training, and the PDF did not provide the resources either through additional instructors or replacing the current, over the hills ones. The politics of why the PDF told us to climb a mountain and then wouldn’t provide boots is another issue.

Final point I’d make is one I’ve made before, and it wasn’t universally popular here. I don’t want to be in the least bit patronising, but the opinion you have of the PDF might not stand up well to a few years of closer contact with them. Reserve organisations by their nature take their culture from their parent organisations, and the RDF is no different. If you are planning on joining the PDF expect a career long on big on grand ideas and plans and ego-boosting titles; and short on actual execution. The sloppy attitude to fitness, the risk-averse nature of training, the almost pathological need to pass decisions up the chain – these are all things we got from the PDF.

Poccington

SamuelFox wrote: »

Final point I’d make is one I’ve made before, and it wasn’t universally popular here. I don’t want to be in the least bit patronising, but the opinion you have of the PDF might not stand up well to a few years of closer contact with them. Reserve organisations by their nature take their culture from their parent organisations, and the RDF is no different. If you are planning on joining the PDF expect a career long on big on grand ideas and plans and ego-boosting titles; and short on actual execution. The sloppy attitude to fitness, the risk-averse nature of training, the almost pathological need to pass decisions up the chain – these are all things we got from the PDF.

Edit: Actually nevermind, you're the NCO that is floating around barracks mid week while idle, has a few Officer mates and uses the Officers Mess the odd time.

Your wealth of knowledge is obviously far greater than anyone actually serving in the PDF.

I'll bite my tongue on the little bit where you try to pin all the RDF's problems and the fact it's in **** state on the PDF... Hardly worth the effort of a reply.

Biologic

I've had a very lucky RDF career. I've done alot of work with both PDF and RDF units and there is a massive difference on the whole. I'll summarise it with an example:
Weekend exercise with RDF: Arrive in barracks friday and do nothing, maybe a kit inspection and then pints in the mess. Get up at X O' Clock the next morning, get breakfast and waste time issuing kit that should have been issued the training night before. No NVE, no marconis, no effort to source them from the stores next door, no ORBAT. Sting the most enthusiastic troops for security. Drive out and get dropped off in a set location, the privates dont know where but everyone else does. Hike a few mins untill the platoon commander/sgt is breathing out his/her hoop and then get back on the trucks. Spend an hour setting up a patrol harbour whilst somehow forgetting most of the routine. Non-tac, hot locks, mess tin inspection, lessons on NATO-T and ambush drills. Make a b****ks of the NATO-T and ambush. Debrief where we pat eachother on the back about our enthusiasm. Truck home and spend the next 2 hours and 2 training nights with the CQ cleaning kit that didn't get mucky in the first place, it's just old. Finished at 7 on sunday with more confusion than before the exercise.
Weekend exercise with the PDF: Arrive Saturday morning at X-1 O' Clock, arrive earlier if you want breakfast. Draw stores (proper stores), get orbat and orders. Kit inspections, ration packs etc all done the previous training night. Exercise troops aren't stung with security. Get on a Heli and get dropped off in a random location, platoon commander gets going on the mapwork. Solid hike to the exercise area and everyone is breathing out their respective hoops. Dig in. Realistic enemy forces do random contacts with our positions. Do a NATO-T, do a proper platoon in attack (not "the way I did it on my course"). Bug out and breath out hoop again. Trucks back to barracks. Section commanders supervise weapons cleaning for an hour, its your personal weapon so if its not clean it's your fault. Clean kit on your own time. Debrief to include where we ****ed up and what went right. Finished at 3, lessons learned.
Having said that there are alot of very competent people in the RDF, some better at their job than PDF counterparts. The problem is, they are fairly heavily diluted against the 17 stone RDF a*se hole who shouts loads but says nothing.
My solution is: Bring in a fitness test and boot whoever can't pass it. You'll either be left with a good group who can do some work, or the organisation will fall apart. Either way it's a win-win. The RDF is totally ineffective as it stands, so if it falls apart then you've just saved yourself money. Take a leaf from the British Army book aswell and make it so that PDF doing a stint with an RDF unit is a positive thing for their career. That way we wont only get the cadre who are happy with their rank and want to sit back for the next few years, or the dodgy bloke that the parent Bn wants to get rid of.

Manic Moran

Poccington wrote: »

Edit: Actually nevermind, you're the NCO that is floating around barracks mid week while idle, has a few Officer mates and uses the Officers Mess the odd time.

Your wealth of knowledge is obviously far greater than anyone actually serving in the PDF.

I'll bite my tongue on the little bit where you try to pin all the RDF's problems and the fact it's in **** state on the PDF... Hardly worth the effort of a reply.

Oh, I don't know...

If you are planning on joining the PDF expect a career long on big on grand ideas and plans and ego-boosting titles; and short on actual execution. The sloppy attitude to fitness, the risk-averse nature of training, the almost pathological need to pass decisions up the chain – these are all things we got from the PDF.

Just rather well described the Active Duty US Army. Can the PDF really be that much different?

NTM

Poccington

Manic Moran wrote: »

Oh, I don't know...



Just rather well described the Active Duty US Army. Can the PDF really be that much different?

NTM

Different from what he described? Yes.

He basically described the RDF and then said "Oh but it's all the PDF's fault"

SamuelFox

Poccington, dry your eyes like a good lad, and if you have something to contribute, do so, if not, feel free to stay out of the discussion. Hiding behind this mantra of “if you’re not in the PDF you couldn’t understand” is pathetic.

If you, or any one else wants to discuss, then let me ask you this. Every aspect of the RDF, from enlistment standards and equipment scales to training standards, course syllabuses and use of reservists with the Defence Forces is ultimately the decision of a soldier wearing a black cap. In the old days the Civil Servants had a huge say but now with the delegation of budgets that point doesn’t stand. So the buck stops with the PDF, and if the RDF is designed and run by the PDF, how can anyone but the PDF be blamed for its current state?

You might complain about RDF guys being wasters, or unfit, or whatever, but if that is the problem why haven’t the PDF instituted better enlistment procedures, or annual fitness tests?

segaBOY

You get what you put in, sure it's a bit of a joke but c'est la vie.

arybvtcw0eolkf

SamuelFox wrote: »

Poccington, dry your eyes like a good lad, and if you have something to contribute, do so, if not, feel free to stay out of the discussion. Hiding behind this mantra of “if you’re not in the PDF you couldn’t understand” is pathetic.

If you, or any one else wants to discuss, then let me ask you this. Every aspect of the RDF, from enlistment standards and equipment scales to training standards, course syllabuses and use of reservists with the Defence Forces is ultimately the decision of a soldier wearing a black cap. In the old days the Civil Servants had a huge say but now with the delegation of budgets that point doesn’t stand. So the buck stops with the PDF, and if the RDF is designed and run by the PDF, how can anyone but the PDF be blamed for its current state?

You might complain about RDF guys being wasters, or unfit, or whatever, but if that is the problem why haven’t the PDF instituted better enlistment procedures, or annual fitness tests?

Oh dry your eyes like a good lad and stop hiding behind the mantra 'the PDF should hold us by the hand and march us across the barrack square', you know sometimes, just sometimes you'll be judged on the standards you set yourself and as has been posted above, standards vary from RDF unit to unit.

Jeeze, talk about having a whing!.

Poccington

SamuelFox wrote: »

Poccington, dry your eyes like a good lad, and if you have something to contribute, do so, if not, feel free to stay out of the discussion. Hiding behind this mantra of “if you’re not in the PDF you couldn’t understand” is pathetic.

If you, or any one else wants to discuss, then let me ask you this. Every aspect of the RDF, from enlistment standards and equipment scales to training standards, course syllabuses and use of reservists with the Defence Forces is ultimately the decision of a soldier wearing a black cap. In the old days the Civil Servants had a huge say but now with the delegation of budgets that point doesn’t stand. So the buck stops with the PDF, and if the RDF is designed and run by the PDF, how can anyone but the PDF be blamed for its current state?

You might complain about RDF guys being wasters, or unfit, or whatever, but if that is the problem why haven’t the PDF instituted better enlistment procedures, or annual fitness tests?

You might wanna dry your own eyes mate.

The standard of the Reserve is down to those people in positions of power in the Reserve. There's plenty of Reservists that will say the very same, the problems in the Reserve is down to those in the Reserve.

The PDF isn't gonna hold the RDF's hand and show them how to do every little thing. Aren't you an NCO? How inspiring, the Reserve is in the ****ter and you're only answer is "Oh it's the PDF's fault".

As for the little “if you’re not in the PDF you couldn’t understand” jibe, well it's true. You can talk about all the things you like about how you saw this or that but you can't tell serving PDF members what's happening in the PDF from day to day when you're not a serving member.

By the way, you'd do well not to be telling members to stay out of discussions.

BigDuffman

First of all, OP your unit sounds particularly bad (ever consider getting in contact with lads from other units and transferring?). That NCO should of been hung by his ballox and booted. But from my experience this is not the case with all units.

My Coy whilst it has its problems (who's doesn't?), parades twice a week once for PT and once for Standard Training. The fitness levels of the majority is brilliant (2 marathon runners this year, tri-athletes and Commando March runners).

A core group try to upskill and do as much as possible to get as much as possible out of the organisation.

There are also those (many of whom haunt forums) that even though they have the opportunity to train, choose not to do so as they are lazy and would prefer to sit back a whinge about it as opposed to get the finger out and do something.

There are however and always will be useless, lazy and unmotivated people in the Reserve. That is down to the lack of entry requirements they take everything once all four limbs are operational and your not colour blind you'll get in.

Its a disgrace. I keep saying and will continue to do so. Annual ITs and ARPs + Set parade nights. If you fail to meet any of the 3 you get the boot.

With regard to blaming the PDF I don't and personally think it is a cop out to do so. I blame the upper echelons of the RDF for being so out of touch that they think their immediate underlings in the ruling class are actually doing there job....which they aren't.

I do however have an issue with completely useless and ineffectual cadre staff who view their appointment as a holiday and as a means to pursue their hobbies till they go on their ticket. The Cadre "training Sgt." is supposed to be there in a support role so as the RDF NCOs can ask advice and draw on their experience as they are supposed to have been professional soldiers. In my experience the majority simply dont. The skills of the PDF soldiers is not having a drizzle down effect into the rank and file of the RDF and that is an issue.

The discerning few amongst us are openly embarrassed at some of the abortions that don the DPM and claim membership of the RDF. It is these muppets who give the org. and the rest of us a bad name. It is these same fools who sit back on their fat haunches and do nothing.

diverdriver

I'm also sorry to say that when the bould Willie O'Dea sits down with McCarthy issue brand new snips. He's going to look long and hard at the RDF. Not least for many of the reasons given here. I doubt if it will be disbanded but may take a lot of casualties.

SamuelFox

BigDuffman I agree with most of your post, and I think as you said the issues with the RDF are no entry standards and poor officers. However, you have to look at the system that allows that to happen. Enthusiastic NCOs go on camp, and within the parameters we are given we run a good fortnights training. If we are lucky to have a few switched on PDF NCOs with us we can do some really good stuff and cover stuff that we RDF NCOs simply don’t have the experience to teach.

However, that’s not the real issues. Entry and fitness standards are set by the Directorate of Reserves. Nuff said. The issue of bad Officers is something I have a real problem with –they hold everything up. I was acting CS on last camp, and the dramas we had trying to get the basics done was amazing – “hold on CS, let me get back to you that” and such ****. Officers need to be gripped, and it is the role of the PDF Officers to do so. When it’s not done, it’s clear whose fault it is.

For a long time I subscribed to this idea that it was all down to the RDF, but now I feel that if the organisation isn’t functioning it’s down to the chain of command to sort it, and we know who sits pretty at the top of the chain of command.

Any organisation that refuses to take criticism is showing a fundamental sickness, an arrogance that they know it all and nothing could possibly be improved. Attitudes like “do you need the PDF to hold your hand” reflect this. We don’t need to PDF to hold our hand, we need them to provide leadership in the positions they hold, (both command and cadre), provide sufficient resources (people and material) and generally facilitate the development of a working reserve. After all, the PDF posting in this forum are quick to point out that RDF haven’t the military experience they have. If that’s so (and it is) how are we going to get it without PDF assistance?

concussion

dtgk1987 wrote: »

There is no fitness test for RDF members. But in order for me to become an NCO I have to pass one. So do u think there is time allotted to us to train physically. The answer is no. A PDF soldier has access to a gym on barracks and allotted hours for fitness training. My point is some idiot in RDF Training authority thought it would be a bright idea to bring in fitness tests for courses even though you are not required to be physically fit in the RDF. If you question this you are told it is an operational matter. The buzz words of the PDF staff basically telling you where to go.

That is such a cop-out. If you want to be an NCO go out and earn it. There's not going to be "sit quietly and learn the manual" time on the PNCO syllabus, you have to do that in your own time. Does that strike you as unfair?

Hard Larry

SamuelFox wrote: »

If that’s so (and it is) how are we going to get it without PDF assistance?

Ask them. Not your cadre staff your twinned unit. I can only speak for Dublin units from my experience but any NCO would be willing to help you out.

SamuelFox

Larry, think of the war that would occur if an RDF NCO "asked" a PDF NCO to come in for a weekend, or on camp with us. Requests like that go through the chain of command and are frequently refused, often before they even get to the PDF unit. Officers, RDF and PDF, don't want to call in favours, and thats what it amounts to. Why would lazy Officers or cadre staff bother themselves to put in a request, and if its granted do all the extra hassle with rations etc? Isn't it easier to do footdrill, or give a powerpoint lecture. Most RDF people, especially at the junior ranks are very enthusiastic and giving up a lot of time for free, and if there was a easy way to sort the problems I've outlined above we'd have found them by now.

Poccington

SamuelFox wrote: »

Larry, think of the war that would occur if an RDF NCO "asked" a PDF NCO to come in for a weekend, or on camp with us. Requests like that go through the chain of command and are frequently refused, often before they even get to the PDF unit. Officers, RDF and PDF, don't want to call in favours, and thats what it amounts to. Why would lazy Officers or cadre staff bother themselves to put in a request, and if its granted do all the extra hassle with rations etc? Isn't it easier to do footdrill, or give a powerpoint lecture. Most RDF people, especially at the junior ranks are very enthusiastic and giving up a lot of time for free, and if there was a easy way to sort the problems I've outlined above we'd have found them by now.

Are there many younger NCO's getting commissioned these days?

SamuelFox

Some, a lot more than previously. Before the re-org, in our unit at least, Commissions were given to the most senior sergeants who didn’t get an SNCO vacancy. Since the re-org, and the start of interviews for the Officers Course this has changed. The problem with being an RDF Officer is that in the RDF, the decisions that are usually taken by Officers are taken by the Cadre staff. Officers act within very constrained parameters. For example, I’ve turned down the opportunity to go for interview for the Officers Course because I am confident of being promoted to CS in a few years, and I know that as a CS I’ll have far more input on the running of the company and camps than I’d ever have as junior officer.

I still stand by what I said previously though – if the PDF Officers were doing their jobs they would ensure the RDF officers were up to scratch, and the Cadre were facilitating rather than running the units.

concussion

SamuelFox wrote: »

Commissions were given to the most senior sergeants who didn’t get an SNCO vacancy.

Given? No PO course completed?

SamuelFox

Concussion, apologies, I presume that they were given a place on the course. Saying that, its only in the last 2-3 years that I've ever heard of anyone failing a course, so in those days if a unit sent someone forward for the course I'd expect them to pass, and to be honest if they were commissioned without a course it wouldn't surprise me.

Out of interest, when did a course become mandatory? I know lots of our older Sgts who didn't do a Standard NCO course.

concussion

Have a look here http://www.rdfra.ie/regulations/r5.shtml for DFR R5 for the regulations governing promotion. Of note is

(2) passed all the qualifying tests laid down in the relevant training instructions issued by the Director of Defence Forces Training.

Not having the relevant TI's I can't say whether a Std. NCO course is madatory. However, I believe that inf must complete said course while it is not mandatory for Corps units. For example, in my unit an AGDC (Artillery Gun Detachment Commanders) course is sufficient.

Edit - that copy of R5 may be out of date, I have one from Oct 2006 which includes requirements for a certain amount of full time training to be attended over the previous few years.

Hard Larry

SamuelFox wrote: »

Larry, think of the war that would occur if an RDF NCO "asked" a PDF NCO to come in for a weekend, or on camp with us. Requests like that go through the chain of command and are frequently refused, often before they even get to the PDF unit. Officers, RDF and PDF, don't want to call in favours, and thats what it amounts to. Why would lazy Officers or cadre staff bother themselves to put in a request, and if its granted do all the extra hassle with rations etc? Isn't it easier to do footdrill, or give a powerpoint lecture. Most RDF people, especially at the junior ranks are very enthusiastic and giving up a lot of time for free, and if there was a easy way to sort the problems I've outlined above we'd have found them by now.

I understand what your saying but thats not the way to go about it all if we all did things officially nothing would get done.
Its all about liason, theres bound to be someone in your unit who knows some one in your twinned unit, its only a couple of hours instruction at the end of the day. Having lazy officers and cadre is a bonus IMO as if something gets organised without their knowledge then they aren't going to scratch themselves to try stop it.
If you're not happy with outcome of requests you put in then redress them and get someone to find out why you were given an unfavourable outcome.
If you're willing to cave in to incompetency, laziness and bureaucracy then you've already lost the war.

SamuelFox

With respect Larry we all know PDF pers, including a few who left our unit to join the regs. If it was as easy as you make it out we'd have it done by now! To illustrate this - once we did what you laid out there - one of our lads played football with a PDF PTI, who was willing to come in and give us a few PT sessions. Most of the PDF Bn was in Kosovo and in fairness he was probably bored of having no-one to train. Anyway, when our (PDF) CO heard of this he put the foot down and said no way - PT was out of the question. God knows why, because since then we've got our own RDF PTLs and PT is not an issue. The problem seemed to be that the CO feeling that he was "making waves" with the PDF Bn, a Unit he had just left to come to us and was aware he would probably be going back to at some stage. Its madness to think that if the PDF guy had volunteered to train a civvie team on a Tues night he'd have been given a clap on the back, but was refused permission to train RDF pers! On the other hand, when the new pistol was issued and the Cadre realised that we NCOs would need to be trained on it for duties on camp, a PDF NCO appeared, trained us and organised the range – no hassle!

There is an attitude in the Defence Forces that we should stay in our own lane and not rock the boat. Be the grey man, don’t be a heatseeker, rockhead etc. That’s the problem here – the brass, RDF or PDF can get their hands dirty or they can have a quiet life. They can barter with the PDF Bn for training staff, or they can get an RDF NCO to give a classroom lesson. They can organise a field day or weekend, with the accommodation and ration issues this raises, or they can get an RDF NCO to give a classroom lesson on a Tues night.

The magic man who can change all this is the PDF CO. Years ago, David Taylor, later a GOC, was our CO. He shook the place up and really changed the training, bringing it to a very high level. All that changed when he left. Since I joined, we had one very good CO who aggressively pushed the Bn to do more, and we did. Since he left, and the re-org, the Bn has really slipped back.

Lockstep

McArmalite wrote: »

Just wondering, I used to be in an Infantry battalion and it was rumour that Engineering, Artillery, Cavalry FCA battalions etc were much more professional. Also heard that battalions from the larger towns and city's could be more picky about who they had in it and hence were better, unlike where I was from, small towns and villages along the border, and they took just about anyone to make up the required numbers.

Also, would An Slua Muirí be much more professional ?

Medic here.

I really can't fault most of the NCOs I've met; most have been great and professional (with a few exceptions)
Big problem is the privates. We've a load of people on paper but only around 4 turn up regularlay (needless to say, there's clamouring when it comes to annual camps)
It's pretty hard for them to do anything when there's so few privates turning up, so we do a lot of marching and a little medical stuff but very little weapons training.
Officers are a mixed bag, most of them have incredible medical knowledge but no clue about the military aspect (one officer doesn;t know how to dress himself properly)


I have no problems with the PDF, my experiences of them have been very professional.

madmullen58

dtgk1987 wrote: »

I joined what was then called the F.C.A back in 2004 when I was aged 17. I thought it would give me an insight into how the military worked and that it would give me some combat training. Boy how wrong I was!

The R.D.F is a complete joke and insults Oglaigh na hEireann the Irish Defence Forces. It has only dawned on me in the last couple of months how much of a waste of time and taxpayers money it is.

Let me take you back to the summer of 2004. I along with the rest of the RDF recruits were bussed off to a barracks which I shall not name. Here we were meant to start our ‘basic training’. For one week our basic training was the following, stripping and assembling the Styer assault rifle and marching. That was all we did for one full week. This was a sham, our NCOs’ did not no what they were they doing at all. Our platoon commander a Captain commissioned into the Defence Forces by the President of Ireland was non existent. They were more concerned with going to the mess and keeping the PDF staff happy. I shall get on to the role of the PDF staff attached to RDF units later. Our basic training was an insult to soldiers the world over. It was farcical when you see the hardship that the PDF recruit goes through.

Now lets move forward to after my ‘recruit training’. Summer annual camp. This is the highlight of the RDF calendar. Formally two weeks of ‘soldiering’. Which for my unit has been changed to one week and modular weekends. For me my first annual camp was o.k. purely because we got to see the special forces training and got a spin in an Air Corps chopper and the new APC’s. Now annual camp is the same thing over and over again. When your training finishes most days at 4pm, you have two options, wait till the mess opens and drink or sit in the billet and watch the four walls close in around you. I know in my unit there is no provision for other forms of entertainment.

Those who bring cars to camp are lucky to escape the camp after training. Oh yes another point, cars on annual camp. A bone of contention with members. From what I have been told when PDF soldiers are in camp and training they are not allowed bring civilian cars, they must make do with military transport. But this isn’t the way for RDF ‘soldiers’ they must have their cars on camp even if they no they shouldn’t. this bring to the point that the R.D.F ‘soldiers’ what to be treated like their PDF counterparts on one hand and differently on the other. I want to spend more on this subject later.

Week night training is probably the reason why my eyes were opened up to the sham of the RDF. In one word I can sum up our officers and NCOs’. That word is absent. On an average weeknight our NCOs’ are not there and the same for our officers. Surely those who have moved up the through the chain of command should be there to train in the knowledge they have gained as officers and NCOs’. This is not so. Our weeknight training doesn’t happen if one our officers doesn’t turn up. If this happens we spend the night standing around in the uniform of the Irish army doing nothing. I did not join the RDF to do this. The only things I have learned on a weeknight training is from other privates that have a vested interest in it. It really brought it home to me how much our NCOs’ were wasters on two occasions;

The first was when a senior NCO sat us down in the hall and gave a big speech about how things were going to change. After this ‘inspiring’ speech , what did we do for the rest of the night? Absolutely nothing. The second occasion happened on my most recent camp. It was the final day of camp on barracks. We were told to clean our billets. So while the rest of us cleaned the billets a NCO who’s rank I will not name, decided it was o.k. for him to lay on his bed and drink from a large bottle of cider. I would just like to say that you would get in serious trouble for drinking in uniform in a billet where all food and drink is banned. Nothing was said to him by superior ranks and I am sure if I had said something to our PDF staff I would have been told where to go. It would shock you the things that are swept under the carpet.

Its seems to me that a lot of senior RDF members want all the equipment and uniforms that the PDF have but are not willing to do the training. I cringe when I think of what would happen if RDF personnel were put into a real combat scenario. Yet there are members out there who think they will be deployed overseas. Maybe not now due to the recession but when times were better that was the common them for RDF members.

My final point on the RDF is this. I am a private. In order for me to become an NCO I must go on potential NCO course, known as a pots course. In the last two years or more no body from my unit has passed out from the pots course due to one reason and it’s a taboo subject within some RDF circles. This reason is FITNESS. When you join the RDF you must pass a medical exam. Which is simple to do. To join the PDF you must pass an interview, medical and fitness test. There is no fitness test for RDF members. But in order for me to become an NCO I have to pass one. So do u think there is time allotted to us to train physically. The answer is no. A PDF soldier has access to a gym on barracks and allotted hours for fitness training. My point is some idiot in RDF Training authority thought it would be a bright idea to bring in fitness tests for courses even though you are not required to be physically fit in the RDF. If you question this you are told it is an operational matter. The buzz words of the PDF staff basically telling you where to go.

Thank you for reading this.

The RDF is a joke because of people like you,, fighting the 'war' behind a keyboard in your mammies room.... Stop crying and do something about the situ,,get fit,, report the NCO Anonymously to your OC,failing that and the chain of command is fcuked, send a report to your PDF CO in writing marked 'Private and Confidential'. Stop slashing the RDF on the internet,,

ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED PEOPLE HAVE VIEWED THIS THREAD YOU TIT...

Your litle rant has just undone alot of hard work put in by people,, peoples free time unlike the PDF,,, get off the fence and roll in behind the good guys...

Sorry but iv checked your profile and your a Airsofter/Walt... RDF needs people who will do the work in the rain,snow, sun and floods, did you train at every opportunity...me thinks NOT!!!

Judging By your posts in this thread and other posts your based with a certain corps unit in......well if anyone wants to know they can check for themselves.. Bad Form:mad:

dtgk1987

how dare you attack my post. i am free to say what i want on this. how dare you.

concussion

He does have a point - there is some merit in the phrase "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". See what you can do to change things for the better, if that doesn't work, you know you tried to makd things better.

dtgk1987

i will not be subject to semi personal attacks on this. my other hobbies are my own interest.

bunny shooter

Easy upset you

Take it like a soldier

FTR I agree with your post above BUT as lad said try and do something about it or get out of it ......................... simple really

madmullen58

dtgk1987 wrote: »

how dare you attack my post. i am free to say what i want on this. how dare you.

and I AM FREE TO SAY WHAT I WANT ON THIS:D
You'd swear i just boxed you in the nose

Everyone seems agrees with me, fix the problem and stop crying about it, Soldiering isnt about having everything the same as the Regulars,, the Regs never play by the rules until theres a problem!!

So instead of having your 'period online' take my advice and report the NCO to your OC, if you want to be a prick report it to MP Coy in your nearest barrack.
Talk to your training Officer, surely the embarrasment of a Pte telling him trainin is poor will be enough for him to move his butt.


PUSSY

OS119

you're a bit of a knob.

you seem to have failed - despite getting very upset - to actually read his post: his complaint is, in essense, about a fundamentally lazy and disinterested chain of command (reaching senior officer level) and yet you harrangue him about not reporting issues to, err... that chain of command.

clever boy.

madmullen58

OS119 wrote: »

you're a bit of a knob.

you seem to have failed - despite getting very upset - to actually read his post: his complaint is, in essense, about a fundamentally lazy and disinterested chain of command (reaching senior officer level) and yet you harrangue him about not reporting issues to, err... that chain of command.

clever boy.

Iam not a knob, i have a big KNOB tho!!!

if you want to be a prick report it to MP Coy in your nearest barrack. More advice.

I have the problem with him posting that online,, the RDF is in trouble anyway without that muppet posting that,,,jurno's hound this site for snippets and thats great reading.!!!

I bust my arse to put platoons out on the ground for exercises and they put in the effort , then ou have joe soap who read on the internet that 'oh deafca is a shower of fools'.... all because of RDF people not having the NUTS to stand and be counted.. he wants to be an NCO doesnt he,, which means making decisions that will not be liked by everyone so why not start now..... What are they gonna do, charge him for wanting better training,, that'l be a first!!!

I apologise for the name calling. I retract that bit but the rest stands..

OS119 are you a member of the RDF ,Regulars or just a civvie?

OS119

i fear you'll not be here for long.

i'm a long time observer - you'll note, or your would have had you had the decency to read more than you write - that this place is a meritocracy, we value what someone writes and the thinking behind it more than their position in society or their chosen career.

however, if you wish to get into pissing contest, you may find yourself embarrassingly outgunned.

madmullen58

OS119 wrote: »

i fear you'll not be here for long.

i'm a long time observer - you'll note, or your would have had you had the decency to read more than you write - that this place is a meritocracy, we value what someone writes and the thinking behind it more than their position in society or their chosen career.

however, if you wish to get into pissing contest, you may find yourself embarrassingly outgunned.

HAVE NO FEAR COS IL BE HERE


Ya big jessie:rolleyes:

Manic Moran

madmullen58 wrote: »

HAVE NO FEAR COS IL BE HERE

Erm.. no, you won't. At least, not on this forum.

Banned. You can try again in a month.

NTM