Child Benefit Reform???

PYRO#1

I think that in light of the problems that this country is facing we should reform the child benefit scheme.
This is just a suggestion so don't go biting my head off if you have six kids and cant live without it.
From my understanding the payments aren't linked to keeping your child in education and i think this should be an condition! If your kid isn't in education 80% of the time no dosh or else link it to attendance, if the child only turns up 50% of the time you only get 50% of the payment.

Even more controversial i think that you should be deducted money if the child gets into trouble with the law.
It might sort out some of the anti-social problems we have.

ei.sdraob

PYRO#1 wrote: »

I think that in light of the problems that this country is facing we should reform the child benefit scheme.
This is just a suggestion so don't go biting my head off if you have six kids and cant live without it.
From my understanding the payments aren't linked to keeping your child in education and i think this should be an condition! If your kid isn't in education 80% of the time no dosh or else link it to attendance, if the child only turns up 50% of the time you only get 50% of the payment.

Even more controversial i think that you should be deducted money if the child gets into trouble with the law.
It might sort out some of the anti-social problems we have.

good idea

but your proposal means more work for the public sector bureaucracy

and you know how they love working

PYRO#1

Ya and i love that they love work, its what makes me get out of bed in the morning:D

They ain't all bad some are extremely good at what they do:cool:

Tragedy

Half of child benefit should be given in the form of Income Tax Rebates.

Diarmuid

PYRO#1 wrote: »

I think that in light of the problems that this country is facing we should reform the child benefit scheme.
This is just a suggestion so don't go biting my head off if you have six kids and cant live without it.
From my understanding the payments aren't linked to keeping your child in education and i think this should be an condition! If your kid isn't in education 80% of the time no dosh or else link it to attendance, if the child only turns up 50% of the time you only get 50% of the payment.

Even more controversial i think that you should be deducted money if the child gets into trouble with the law.
It might sort out some of the anti-social problems we have.

Plenty of good ideas there. No chance of them been implemented.

What I don't get is , in this day and age, if you can't afford kids don't have them.

Max Power1

Diarmuid wrote: »

What I don't get is , in this day and age, if you can't afford kids don't have them.

The thing is the current SW system makes it a career choice for people to keep popping out kids and getting child benefit, lone parents allowance, Jobseeker allowance, rent allowance, child supplement addition to JA etc etc. This should be changed. We need to drastically reduce all these payments to encourage people to get up and work.

invincibleirish

Give child benefit to those who genuinely require it, and not as another perk to those who certainly don't need it.

old boy

yeah so the clown cowen upped the allowance, some people took the oppertunity to get paid for having kids. people were of the opinion a gaggle of kids would be a nice little money earner, if that is taken from them they are going to be fairly fissed off, i was often told put on an extension have a few more kids sure they will pay for it in no time, lucky me i thought i was badly off enough as it was.

PYRO#1

Yes exactly that was my next point!
Child Benefit is acting as an incentive to have kids and we need kids in this country. They can have a great standard of life here and hopefully pay for us when we are old:D Pension management is a whole other topic lets not go there just yet:rolleyes:

But if you cant afford to have kids then you shouldn't be having any, at least until you can afford to and then only as many as you can afford!

But that would require ever child in the country being planned, which clearly isn't the case!

blond45

i know , why dont all the men have THE SNIP. then there be no need for child allowance. or the wemen get sterilized..;) of course im kidden folks.

ceret

invincibleirish wrote: »

Give child benefit to those who genuinely require it, and not as another perk to those who certainly don't need it.

I agree. Make it means tested.

PYRO#1

It just bugs me that the money is given out just for having a kid, nothing else:mad:
People will have kids anyway whether they mean to or not.
Actually use the money to some advantage by keeping kids in school and out of trouble or stop the payment and use it to fund something else (education, health, justice or something)

PaulieD

Cut the benefit for childers not resident in the Irish state.

PYRO#1

PaulieD wrote: »

Cut the benefit for childers not resident in the Irish state.

Ya now that really is stupid:mad:
Why the BLEEP are we paying for children that dont live here:mad:

PaulieD

PYRO#1 wrote: »

Ya now that really is stupid:mad:
Why the BLEEP are we paying for children that dont live here:mad:

In 2008, a spot check of Children's Allowance found a greater incidence of fraud amongst foreigners. The fraud amongst foreigners was 13% of all claims compared to 1.5% among Irish citizens. So, one in eight of those children not resident in the state, in receipt of the benefit simply do not exist. Blame the civil service for this mess.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0721/1216565492868.html

invincibleirish

PYRO#1 wrote: »

Ya now that really is stupid:mad:
Why the BLEEP are we paying for children that dont live here:mad:

Less of the foreigner bashing, why are we paying child benefit to people who have no financial need for child benefit? rather some Polish kid getting it who requires it to survive rather then Tarquins mummy out in Foxrock saving it for a rainy day.

PaulieD

invincibleirish wrote: »

Less of the foreigner bashing, why are we paying child benefit to people who have no financial need for child benefit? rather some Polish kid getting it who requires it to survive rather then Tarquins mummy out in Foxrock saving it for a rainy day.

It is not foreigner bashing, it is called balancing the books. We are a small bankrupt nation, we cannot continue to play the generous Paddy anymore. We are borrowing hundreds of millions of euro each week to make child benefit payments to children who do not reside in Ireland. But never fear, my grandchildren will pick up the tab.:rolleyes:

Oh, and I support means testing for child benefit payments, so your point about Tarquin from Foxrock is null and void.

invincibleirish

PaulieD wrote: »

It is not foreigner bashing, it is called balancing the books. We are a small bankrupt nation, we cannot continue to play the generous Paddy anymore. We are borrowing hundreds of millions of euro each week to make child benefit payments to children who do not reside in Ireland. But never fear, my grandchildren will pick up the tab.:rolleyes:

Oh, and I support means testing for child benefit payments, so your point about Tarquin from Foxrock is null and void.

Do we have any kind of stats on CB payments to parents resident outside the state?

PYRO#1

Im not foreigner bashing, i dont think it should be paid to children who are not resident here regardless of nationality.

Its a bit of a pointless payment if it isn't used right.
I DON'T THINK ITS RIGHT TO GIVE PEOPLE MONEY FOR SIMPLY HAVING CHILDREN!
Whats the reason behind if as it stands? How is the country benefiting from it when you could focus the money where its needed?

invincibleirish

PYRO#1 wrote: »

Its a bit of a pointless payment if it isn't used right.
I DON'T THINK ITS RIGHT TO GIVE PEOPLE MONEY FOR SIMPLY HAVING CHILDREN!
Whats the reason behind if as it stands? How is the country benefiting from it when you could focus the money where its needed?

Kids are expensive, so i hear anyway, i don't think there is anything wrong in providing financial assistance to the unemployed and poorly paid who have kids. They are the future after all.

PaulieD

invincibleirish wrote: »

Do we have any kind of stats on CB payments to parents resident outside the state?

As regular readers will testify, I always back up my opinions with facts and figures. Post number 15.

PaulieD

PYRO#1 wrote: »

Im not foreigner bashing, i dont think it should be paid to children who are not resident here regardless of nationality.

Its a bit of a pointless payment if it isn't used right.
I DON'T THINK ITS RIGHT TO GIVE PEOPLE MONEY FOR SIMPLY HAVING CHILDREN!
Whats the reason behind if as it stands? How is the country benefiting from it when you could focus the money where its needed?

In some cases, it keeps children above the poverty trap. I am all for mean testing the payment, but lets not punish children in genuine need, even if we disagree with their parents actions.

harsea8

Means testing is too open for abuse and will involve quite a bit of administration. For example, if a couple are unmarried, but have a child, who's salary do you "test" to see if they are eligible to receive it? If the father is the breadwinner, but pretends he doesn't live at the family home (which is a common ploy now to allow the mother to claim lone parents allowance) how are the authorities even going to have the manpower to find out if he does or doesn't live there........much better just to reduce it or get rid of it altogether*

*and before anyone says anything, I get it for my 2 kids at the moment and we would struggle if it was cut, but if it helps drags the country out of the sh*t then it will be worth it

invincibleirish

PaulieD wrote: »

As regular readers will testify, I always back up my opinions with facts and figures. Post number 15.

Don't have an IT subscription to read that link, and from what is readable it appears to suggest that this kind of benefit fraud is being clamped down with immediate effect, and as the link is from Summer '08, it suggests to me this isn't really an issue anymore?.

PYRO#1

Yes they are the future they are the country's most valuable resource.
But that resource isn't managed properly.

I been thinking long and hard about means testing CB and i think while in theory its sound in practice it would just make us an even worse welfare state!
If you cant afford to have ten kids you shouldn't be having them?

As it stands all children are entitled to it the same as free education.
Give it to everyone and manage it or scrap it

dresden8

PaulieD wrote: »

It is not foreigner bashing, it is called balancing the books. We are a small bankrupt nation, we cannot continue to play the generous Paddy anymore. We are borrowing hundreds of millions of euro each week to make child benefit payments to children who do not reside in Ireland. But never fear, my grandchildren will pick up the tab.:rolleyes:

Two numbers

1408 of 71.

It existed in EU legislation before we joined the "common market".

"We" just voted yes to Lisbon 2. If you voted "no" you can complain about foreigners, if you voted yes for closer integration, stfu.

herya

PYRO#1 wrote: »

Im not foreigner bashing, i dont think it should be paid to children who are not resident here regardless of nationality.

I'm not Irish and I agree with you.

PaulieD

dresden8 wrote: »

Two numbers

1408 of 71.

It existed in EU legislation before we joined the "common market".

"We" just voted yes to Lisbon 2. If you voted "no" you can complain about foreigners, if you voted yes for closer integration, stfu.

I voted No to Nice part deux, and both Lisbons.

PaulieD

invincibleirish wrote: »

Don't have an IT subscription to read that link, and from what is readable it appears to suggest that this kind of benefit fraud is being clamped down with immediate effect, and as the link is from Summer '08, it suggests to me this isn't really an issue anymore?.

Tip of the iceberg. Do you trust our inept civil service to clamp down on benefit fraud?

dresden8

PaulieD wrote: »

I voted No to Nice part deux, and both Lisbons.

Me too. You can feel free to complain so.

invincibleirish

PaulieD wrote: »

Tip of the iceberg. Do you trust our inept civil service to clamp down on benefit fraud?

In my humble experience, when it comes to benefit fraud we Irish do it better then anyone else. Don't think we can blame the Civil Service when we have a culture that seems to accept benefits fraud.