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Child Benefit Reform???

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    #32
    PYRO#1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭PYRO#1


    Wonderful:mad:
    And i bet europe never thought to re-distribute the money or link in payments across national borders!


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    #33
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    PYRO#1 wrote: »
    Wonderful:mad:
    And i bet europe never thought to re-distribute the money or link in payments across national borders!

    In this context there is no Europe to "think".

    Only national governments. Do you want closer integration?

    Social welfare is snowed under at the moment. It tracks, catches and prosecutes fraud. Check out how many fraudsters got jail terms.


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    #34
    PYRO#1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭PYRO#1


    How many?


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    #35
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Tip of the iceberg. Do you trust our inept civil service to clamp down on benefit fraud?

    Benefit fraud is clamped down on, as before check out the jail terms given out.

    Then again, check out the jail terms given out for bank fraud, i.e. fnck all.

    Ireland is broke. Nobody wants to fix it.


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    #36
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    PYRO#1 wrote: »
    How many?
    In 2008, 357 cases of social welfare fraud were forwarded to the Chief State Solicitors Office for the initiation of prosecution proceedings.

    328 cases were finalised in court, two were imprisoned, 19 received suspended sentences, 208 were fined, nine received community service and 46 received the Probation Act. The remaining penalties included cases which were bound to the peace or adjourned with liberty to re enter.

    My italics.

    http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2009/Pages/pr210109.aspx

    Then again, that's two more social welfare heads than bankers.


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    #37
    gaeilgebeo
    Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭gaeilgebeo


    The whole CB system is a joke! and dont get me started on the amount of fraud with "lone parents"!:mad:
    Why can't child benefit be means tested? A person earning €250,000 a year gets the same CB as someone on the dole?!:rolleyes:


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    #38
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    The whole CB system is a joke! and dont get me started on the amount of fraud with "lone parents"!:mad:
    Why can't child benefit be means tested? A person earning €250,000 a year gets the same CB as someone on the dole?!:rolleyes:

    Means testing childrens allowance would cost a fortune when civil servant numbers are being slashed.

    To make serious money it would have to be pitched quite low, amongst the "working poor".

    Dutch businessman Bono wouldn't get the allowance but then again, neither would a lot of "normal" working people.


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    #39
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    PYRO#1 wrote: »
    How many?

    And seriously dude, if you're going to comment on a serious political forum, please check a few facts before posting your own.


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    #40
    gaeilgebeo
    Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭gaeilgebeo


    I agree that it would cost a fortune but the current system isn't working and a there is a large number of people receiving CB who don't really need it. They could even just have a cut off point.


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    #41
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    I agree that it would cost a fortune but the current system isn't working and a there is a large number of people receiving CB who don't really need it. They could even just have a cut off point.

    To make it worthwhile they'd have to set it quite "low", for example 50k.

    Those on 49,999.99 could get several hundred a month CB, while those on 50,000.01 would get nothing.

    It ain't easy.

    And of course the self-employed who self declare their earnings would get the full amount.

    We had this previously in the 80's with university grants.

    Farmers and self-employed would get full grants, while PAYE saps would get fnck all.


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    #42
    PYRO#1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭PYRO#1


    dresden8 i had researched the topic i just hadn't thought of it from that angle.
    Throwing people in jail is stupid, far better off with a fine and a repayment!

    Means testing in my opinion won't work it just gives people money for pumping out kids and not for turning out well developed responsible citizens

    CB is a payment for all kids!


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    #43
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Why are people talking about means testing CB?

    I have no problem with people who pay a lot of income tax receiving CB.

    I have a huge problem with people who make a career OUT OF receiving CB.


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    #44
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    PYRO#1 wrote: »
    Ya now that really is stupid:mad:
    Why the BLEEP are we paying for children that dont live here:mad:

    + a million Pyro, couldnt have said it better myself
    Tragedy wrote: »
    Why are people talking about means testing CB?

    I have no problem with people who pay a lot of income tax receiving CB.

    I have a huge problem with people who make a career OUT OF receiving CB.
    Yes indeed! There should be a limit on how many children you can have in a five year period or something to stop the career mothers (and I use teh term mother loosely)


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    #45
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Scrap Child Benefit.

    Replace it with (reduced) tax credits for taxpayers and social welfare increases.


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    #46
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    dvpower wrote: »
    Scrap Child Benefit.

    Replace it with (reduced) tax credits for taxpayers and social welfare increases.

    That has some merits.

    The complications would be quite horrific though.

    Tax credits and incentive/disincentive effects and other kinds of sh1te.

    We have painted ourselves into a corner as regards our "social" set-up.

    There's no easy way out of it.

    Thanks Jaysus it's not my job.


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    #47
    The Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    Yes indeed! There should be a limit on how many children you can have in a five year period or something to stop the career mothers (and I use teh term mother loosely)
    Um, I wasn't aware that we were living in China!!! So how would you propose that this be implemented. Are the public service going to send employees into young disadvantaged mothers bed room to monitor their sexual activities and to be on hand with an auld Jonny just in case? Are the ones who are missed and actually get pregnant going to given forced abortions? What about people who choose to have a large family for personal reasons or those that can afford them? I come from a large family and we weren't eating coal growing up. Think of the logistics that it would take to implement such a policy. You'd spend more policing it than what it would save.

    I agree with means testing but I agree that the implementation of it could be problematic. If it costs more money than it is supposed to save then it would be pointless. Although I don't see how this would be the case.


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    #48
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    In my humble experience, when it comes to benefit fraud we Irish do it better then anyone else. Don't think we can blame the Civil Service when we have a culture that seems to accept benefits fraud.

    I am sick of this Irish bashing on boards.ie. It seems it is trendy to bash all things Irish,I am absolutely ****ing sick of it. Re-read post number 15.

    Foreigners are 800% more likely to commit child benefit fraud than their Irish counter parts.


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    #49
    herya
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭herya


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Foreigners are 800% more likely to commit child benefit fraud than their Irish counter parts.

    Or 800% more likely to be exposed. Seeing how there are more complicated procedures to claim CB for a foreign born child - more chances for the fraud attempt to come out - I guess that the real difference is not that dramatic.


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    #50
    max 73
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭max 73


    blond45 wrote: »
    i know , why dont all the men have THE SNIP. then there be no need for child allowance. or the wemen get sterilized..;) of course im kidden folks.

    so thats what it really is for..........AN BORD SNIP NUA :D


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    #51
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Break down the child benefit.

    Give food vouchers so the children will be fed properly with proper healthy food from supermarkets and shops

    Childcare vouchers that can be used to pay childcare fees

    Clothing vouchers that can be spent in any clothing shop on children's clothing.

    instead of bad parents using the money to pay for alcohol and cigarettes. as well as their own clothing and entertainment.


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    #52
    Grandadsbear
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 76 ✭✭Grandadsbear


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Break down the child benefit.
    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Give food vouchers so the children will be fed properly with proper healthy food from supermarkets and shops
    Supermarkets put up the prices ... they know you have the vouchers to spend :(
    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Childcare vouchers that can be used to pay childcare fees
    Childcare cost rise ... they know you have the vouchers to spend :(
    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Clothing vouchers that can be spent in any clothing shop on children's clothing.
    You get the idea...shops put up the prices ... they know you have the vouchers to spend...:eek: it's a vicious circle really...[/font]


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    #53
    RiverWilde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Break down the child benefit.

    Give food vouchers so the children will be fed properly with proper healthy food from supermarkets and shops

    Childcare vouchers that can be used to pay childcare fees

    Clothing vouchers that can be spent in any clothing shop on children's clothing.

    instead of bad parents using the money to pay for alcohol and cigarettes. as well as their own clothing and entertainment.

    Now that's a nasty idea. You then find shops that won't accept vouchers and those who do hike the prices up so the people who need the vouchers get screwed.

    Riv


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    #54
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    herya wrote: »
    Or 800% more likely to be exposed. Seeing how there are more complicated procedures to claim CB for a foreign born child - more chances for the fraud attempt to come out - I guess that the real difference is not that dramatic.

    Guestimations or facts and figures? I will let the reader decide. :)


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    #55
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    RiverWilde wrote: »
    Now that's a nasty idea. You then find shops that won't accept vouchers and those who do hike the prices up so the people who need the vouchers get screwed.

    Riv

    how would they? sure paying with government vouchers would be same as cash. shops would be competing for this huge business.
    they'd probably even lower their prices to attract business


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    #56
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Yeah right they will, knowing that they have a captive audience they'll definitely lower prices and compete for your business...:confused:


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