Dont cut our pay, Tax everyone else instead!!!

nesf

jimmmy wrote: »

The people I know who became Guards, while being decent enough citizens, were never brightest or anything near it during their school years, and never the hardest working at school or in subsequent life. Why should people like that in their early fifties be retired now with a pension pot provided by the govt ( you and me ) worth 1.3 million ? The tax free lump sum they get on retirement from the govt is often enough to buy another investment apartment for themselves down the country.

Jimmmy, the average garda doesn't retire on that much. Christ, most of them don't even make Sergeant ffs.

jimmmy

nesf wrote: »

Jimmmy, the average garda doesn't retire on that much.

Average Garda salary is sixty grand. That is spread above all ages / grades. Due to promotion, age etc, it is fair to assume the average salary that a Garda retires on is quite a bit more than the average salary spread throughout all personnel of all ages in the force. If average salary is sixty grand, and starting salary is less than half that, what sort of money do you think the average Guard is on at completion of service ?
The tax free lump sum is one and a half times that. I stand by the statement " The tax free lump sum they get on retirement from the govt is often enough to buy another investment apartment for themselves down the country.". Apartments can be got for 120 to 140 grand easy enough in some parts of the country.

gerry28

There is alot of talk about well paid guards, teachers, nurses etc.


This is the current gross payscale for nurses,
Staff Nurse (including registered midwife, registered sick children's nurse, registered mental handicap nurse)

31,875 - 33,470 - 35,069 - 36,666 - 38,256 - 39,630 - 41,008 - 42,380 - 43,753 - 45,102 - 46,5411

So they start on €31875 and after 10 years earn €46541 (gross)

I note from previous posts demands of up to 40% - 50% paycuts for the public service - hardly realistic?

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

The people I know who became Guards, while being decent enough citizens, were never brightest or anything near it during their school years, and never the hardest working at school or in subsequent life. Why should people like that in their early fifties be retired now with a pension pot provided by the govt ( you and me ) worth 1.3 million ? The tax free lump sum they get on retirement from the govt is often enough to buy another investment apartment for themselves down the country.

Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad; those whom the little people wish to destroy, they first vilify.

I know guards who were bright at school, who worked hard then and work hard now, and I knew one who gave his life in the course of his work. It is offensive to pick on any occupational group and disparage all of them.

OMD

gerry28 wrote: »

There is alot of talk about well paid guards, teachers, nurses etc.


This is the current gross payscale for nurses,
Staff Nurse (including registered midwife, registered sick children's nurse, registered mental handicap nurse)

31,875 - 33,470 - 35,069 - 36,666 - 38,256 - 39,630 - 41,008 - 42,380 - 43,753 - 45,102 - 46,5411

So they start on €31875 and after 10 years earn €46541 (gross)

I note from previous posts demands of up to 40% - 50% paycuts for the public service - hardly realistic?

Nurses basic starting pay is 31875 but they work 37.5 hours spread over 7 days. 1 in 7 days they work is a Sunday for which they receive double time. They also get an extra allowance for working Saturdays. This work is a normal part of the working week, it is not overtime. This brings the basic starting pay to 36500 basic a year. (This is just about the same as the average wage of all workers in this country)

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

those whom the little people wish to destroy, they first vilify.

So those people who pay the taxes to the government, and who expect value for money for same, are now just " little people". These "little people" must keep paying taxes to the govt and have a lesser standard of living, so those who are paid by the govt in this country are the highest paid public servants in the known world ?

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I know guards who were bright at school

Good for you. Were they ( Guards in school ) generally as bright as those who strove to go to University, or who succeeded at the top in business, for example ?

P. Breathnach wrote: »

and I knew one who gave his life in the course of his work.

Out of tens of thousands of Guards in the country of course you would know one "who gave his life in the course of his work.". So have lots of people in other careers / jobs eg farmers, fishermen, builders, van drivers.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It is offensive to pick on any occupational group and disparage all of them.

I am not disparaging towards them as people. I have respect for the Gardai and count a number of them as friends. However, as one of them privately said, their pay and pension is way out of line with the general economy.
Now, please go for the ball and not the player. As said before, when he has another 30 years plus of life left in him, why is he retired on such a big govt puiblic sector pension ? The tax free lump sum he got on retirement from the govt itself is enough to buy another apartment down the country.

Tipp Man

gerry28 wrote: »

There is alot of talk about well paid guards, teachers, nurses etc.


This is the current gross payscale for nurses,
Staff Nurse (including registered midwife, registered sick children's nurse, registered mental handicap nurse)

31,875 - 33,470 - 35,069 - 36,666 - 38,256 - 39,630 - 41,008 - 42,380 - 43,753 - 45,102 - 46,5411

So they start on €31875 and after 10 years earn €46541 (gross)

I note from previous posts demands of up to 40% - 50% paycuts for the public service - hardly realistic?

Looks like bloody good money to me, especially as that doesn't include the supplements for working Saturday's Sundays, bank holidays or any overtime.

A nurse finishing uni starts on 32k plus what i have outlined, an accountant once finished uni starts on anything from 18-25k

dearg lady

Jimmmy jimmmy where you been lately, it's been so quiet on here?

gerry28

Tipp Man wrote: »

Looks like bloody good money to me, especially as that doesn't include the supplements for working Saturday's Sundays, bank holidays or any overtime.

A nurse finishing uni starts on 32k plus what i have outlined, an accountant once finished uni starts on anything from 18-25k

There is no doubt its good money i'm not defending it.

I think if reliable info on public sector income was widely known, we would get less of the hysterical calls for 40% paycuts.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

... I am not disparaging towards them as people. I have respect for the Gardai and count a number of them as friends...

Let me remind you of what you said about an hour ago:

The people I know who became Guards, while being decent enough citizens, were never brightest or anything near it during their school years, and never the hardest working at school or in subsequent life.

Please try to be consistent.

jimmmy

gerry28 wrote: »

I think if reliable info on public sector income was widely known, we would get less of the hysterical calls for 40% paycuts.

Nobody said all public sector pgrades should be cut 40%...even though our public sector pay is 40% above the EC average. Those at the top should be cut more than those at the bottom. A hospital consultant in Ireland who is paid double that in Germany , for exactly the same work , ( like the German hospital consultant featured in the paper a few weeks ago, who had worked in both jurisdictions ) , would still be better off than his German counterpart after a 40% paycut.;)
The top Fas fellows would not miss 40% either.

OMD

gerry28 wrote: »

There is no doubt its good money i'm not defending it.

I think if reliable info on public sector income was widely known, we would get less of the hysterical calls for 40% paycuts.

The info is there. the GRA website gives garda pay

http://www.gra.cc/salary_scales.shtml

, INTO and ASTI give teachers pay
http://www.asti.ie/?id=133
http://www.into.ie/ROI/InformationforTeachers/Salaries/CommonBasicScale/

and INO give nurses pay. http://www.ino.ie/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?TabID=35&ItemID=3625&mid=6977

Obviously you have to be a little careful how you intrepret the pay

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Let me remind you of what you said about an hour ago:

Please try to be consistent.

Both statements are entirely consistent. I can still have respect for the Gardai, and respect for some members of the Gardai who are friends, while stating they were never the "brightest or anything near it during their school years, and never the hardest working at school or in subsequent life." Facts speak for themselves. They never got A's or B's in Honours level subjects, and they never worked - as they will admit themselves - 60 or 80 hour weeks, without holidays / days off, as some others I know have.

irish_bob

gerry28 wrote: »

There is alot of talk about well paid guards, teachers, nurses etc.


This is the current gross payscale for nurses,
Staff Nurse (including registered midwife, registered sick children's nurse, registered mental handicap nurse)

31,875 - 33,470 - 35,069 - 36,666 - 38,256 - 39,630 - 41,008 - 42,380 - 43,753 - 45,102 - 46,5411

So they start on €31875 and after 10 years earn €46541 (gross)

I note from previous posts demands of up to 40% - 50% paycuts for the public service - hardly realistic?

the average nurse earns over a grand a week , they start off on 31 k

check this out

http://www.ino.ie/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?TabID=35&ItemID=3625&mid=6977


compare irish nurses wages to that of the uk

Matron/Dir. Nursing Ireland (Band 1) E78,451 - E91,539
Matron UK (Band 8a) £37,106 - £44,527


Staff Nurse Ireland: E31,875 - E45,102
Nurse UK (Band 5): £20,225 - £26,123

Midwife/ Senior Staff nurse Ireland: E48,870
Nurse specialist / Midwife (Band 6): 24,103 - 32,653
Nurse advanced / Midwife Specialist (Band 7) 29,091 - 38,352


Public Health Nurse Ireland: 48,765 - 58,028
Nurse community (Band 5): £20,225 - £26,123
Nurse community specialist (Band 6): 24,103 - 32,653

gerry28

OMD wrote: »

The info is there. the GRA website gives garda pay

http://www.gra.cc/salary_scales.shtml

, INTO and ASTI give teachers pay
http://www.asti.ie/?id=133
http://www.into.ie/ROI/InformationforTeachers/Salaries/CommonBasicScale/

and INO give nurses pay. http://www.ino.ie/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?TabID=35&ItemID=3625&mid=6977

Obviously you have to be a little careful how you intrepret the pay

So a guard after 1 year is on basic gross €31,440 and after 10 years €44,744

Teacher - year 1 - €32,599 and after 10 years €46,337.

Nurse - year 1 - €31,875 and after 10 years €46,541


The guard, teacher and nurse are on very similar income.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

Both statements are entirely consistent...

As I said, you are beyond satire.

Tipp Man

gerry28 wrote: »

So a guard after 1 year is on basic gross €31,440 and after 10 years €44,744

Teacher - year 1 - €32,599 and after 10 years €46,337.

Nurse - year 1 - €31,875 and after 10 years €46,541


The guard, teacher and nurse are on very similar income.

Gerry just on the teachers salary, most start on level 3 of the grade, then if you scroll down the link a bit you will see all the extras they get, which include €1,300 for a HDip (which i don't think you can teach without), 5,177 for a primary degree (which you need) and 5,785 for a master (obviously optional)

So a first year teacher would defo have point 3 on scale 34,909, plus 1,300 plus 5,177 giving a starting salary of 41,386 and you can add the 5,785 if they have a masters (which more have nowadays). That's STARTING salary at 41k. Really quite remarkable

OMD

gerry28 wrote: »

So a guard after 1 year is on basic gross €31,440 and after 10 years €44,744

Teacher - year 1 - €32,599 and after 10 years €46,337.

Nurse - year 1 - €31,875 and after 10 years €46,541


The guard, teacher and nurse are on very similar income.

These are usually minimum payments and most people will be allowed extra allowances. Eg teachers get paid extra for having a degree! Basically you can sat with certainity that they do not earn less than those figures. In many cases they earn substantially more.

gerry28

irish_bob wrote: »

Public Health Nurse Ireland: 48,765 - 58,028

Thats a good wage.

I'm fully expecting the government to cut wages in the budget but they will prob cut everyone the same % which i will find hard to stomach.

roseym

With ah honours degree, postgrad, and half way through a part time masters, the only job I could find pays 21,500.

I actually consider myself lucky just to have that job given the way things are gone.

Public sector are in a world of their own.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

As I said, you are beyond satire.

Please go for the ball, not the player.

irish_bob

jimmmy wrote: »

Both statements are entirely consistent. I can still have respect for the Gardai, and respect for some members of the Gardai who are friends, while stating they were never the "brightest or anything near it during their school years, and never the hardest working at school or in subsequent life." Facts speak for themselves. They never got A's or B's in Honours level subjects, and they never worked - as they will admit themselves - 60 or 80 hour weeks, without holidays / days off, as some others I know have.

in most countries , police would be seen as average middle class in terms of earnings , in ireland they are upper middle class , i would think it is rare in other countries for police to be owners of second properties , in ireland police were owners of second properties long before any kind of big cat showed up

Riskymove

irish_bob wrote: »

average middle class.....upper middle class

and you accuse me of semantics?

Riskymove

gerry28 wrote: »

There is no doubt its good money i'm not defending it.

I think if reliable info on public sector income was widely known, we would get less of the hysterical calls for 40% paycuts.

indeed

the idea of custs of 25% + are simply not going to happen for the majority of PS workers

I do think they could happen for those posts covered by the "Higher remuneration" reviews some of which have gotten way out of hand

97i9y3941

outsource the public sector or kick them off and get them to go on the dole for the year and let some of the highly qualfied people on dole at the moment do their jobs...

#15

Fred83 wrote: »

outsource the public sector or kick them off and get them to go on the dole for the year and let some of the highly qualfied people on dole at the moment do their jobs...

The whole public sector?

You can't be serious, do you realise how much that would cost to retrain people?

97i9y3941

i am serious because the HSE/welfare wastes enough money as it is...

Riskymove

#15 wrote: »

The whole public sector?

You can't be serious, do you realise how much that would cost to retrain people?

ah sure, couldnt anyone do a public service job in the morning....what training or experience would ya need to be a nurse or a teacher etc

sure given the calibre of person that is considered to be a public servant...monkeys could do it

Tigerbaby

Fred83 wrote: »

outsource the public sector or kick them off and get them to go on the dole for the year and let some of the highly qualfied people on dole at the moment do their jobs...

Bottomfeeders, stop devouring each other. target the guilty. you are just falling into the IBEC/ Bank/ Developer / Government trap. Stick together. Unionise ! DOnt let them rob our future.

jimmmy

There are plenty of highly trained people among the 20 million or so unemployed people in Europe. A nurse in Portugal earns a third what she gets here, according to the Portugese nurse in the paper who moved here.