The Silly Soup of Redundant National Secondary Roads

Sponge Bob

or extend it from Abbeyleix to Mountrath as there is no facility to go south to west or west to south at the M7/M8 junction, then we can fully retire the N62 from Roscrea to the M8 via Thurles . All the N78 should be retired in favour of the M9.

marmurr1916

medoc wrote: »

Following on from a suggestion about the N51/N52 is the N62 Thurles thread myidea is,

Downgarde the N52 from Birr to Borrisokane and route the N52 traffic to Roscrea and onto the M7, down grade the N52 north of Ardee and use the N33 onto the M1. Along term aim could be to re number the N52 as N33 after improvements are made to some sections (2+2 where possible), which would provide a Primary route from Northern Ireland to the South West. After the M20 is constructed it could be an alternative route to Cork from Belfast avoiding Dublin and the M50.

I would suggest an N33 from the M1 to the M9 south of Kilkenny, with the following general route:

M1-Collon-Navan* (connection with M3)-Delvin-Mullingar (connection with M4)-near Kilbeggan (connection with M6)-Tullamore-Mountmellick-Mountrath-(connection with M7/M8 interchange)-Ballycolla-Durrow-Ballyragget-Kilkenny-Danesfort (connection with M9).

*this section to be in between the existing N52 and N51 routes from the M1 to Delvin.

This would give a National Primary route that ultimately connected Waterford, Kilkenny, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Athlone, Portlaoise, Tullamore, Mullingar, Navan, Kells and Drogheda to Dundalk and onwards towards Belfast.

icdg

medoc wrote: »

There is definatly a need for a review of all National secondry routes after the opening of the Inter urbans to see which are needed or not and their condition. Also why the N82 exists is a mystery especially after the completion of the M50.

The N82 is a mystery indeed, never mind the original route though, the "new" N82 contructed in the last few years is a private road through a business park! With about 8 roundabouts on it! And its only about 2km long!

(Sorry bout all the exclaimation marks, but the N82 really does begger belief).

I'd detrunk the N82, although I'd possibly consider trunking either the R113 or R136 in its place - both of which are public roads and have substantial sections of dual carriageway - although the planning premission conditions for the R136 would probably rule that out.

JupiterKid

I disagree with some of the proposed declassifications of the National Secondaries - a number oif them like the N80, N52, N62 and N55 form an important cross-country link function.

But I would declassify the following National Secondaries:

N83 - utterly pointless and only duplicates the N17
N81 - same with the N9
N78 - once M9 is open - no longer necessary
N87 - pointless now that the Aghalane bridge is long since reopened.
N53 - either make it a new national primary to link the N2 to the M1 or downgrade. A case of sh*t or get off the pot!
N52 - downgrade between Ardee and Dundalk - it's an atrocious road.
N84 - pretty pointless

road_high

Being parochial I guess, I would not be in favour of downgrading the N78. Mainly because much of it is pretty decent road with a 100 kmh limit and would hate to see an 80 limit on it. I would like to see it maintain N status between KK and Athy and the new Athy-M9 link road to be designated N78. And thus downgrade the existing N78 north of Athy alright.

road_high

And for such an allegedly pointless road the N81 is one busy road, particularly around Blessington. Though I see validlity in the argument that the M9 makes much of the southern reaches of it reduntant. A good link road from Baltinglass to the M9 would be useful.

Sponge Bob

Blessington is not Nationally significant and I have nowt against proper regional roads either. Dual the bastid by all means after you R it

benralph

i agree with almost everything marmurr 1916 stated, except the N84 Galway-Castlebar road, this is a very busy route carrying thousands of vehicles daily between connaughts largest & third largest urban centres! Ballinrobe is a bottleneck & a bypass route has being given the green light! Its in dire need of improving!

The N83 Tuam-(kilkelly) road should be abolished immediately! It carries very little traffic & is pointless!

spacetweek

Just to give some context to this debate. In the old days (i.e. before 2010), if you wanted heavy investment for a road in your county, you tried to get it designated an N-road - thus making it eligible for Gov funding via the NRA. There was an incentive to try to get as many roads as possible designated as such as a result. Some areas like the West seem to have been very successful with this, judging from the dense network of Mayo in particular.

Now that the NRA are in charge of R-roads as well as N-roads, this is no longer necessary. An R-road is just as likely to get attention as an N-road, within reason of course. So the downgradings proposed here are more than just rationalisation; they're important given the changed reality.


Summary of changes people have put forward, that we all agree on:

Redesignate N75 from Thurles-M8 as N62
Downgrade N62 to R-road

Redesignate old N8 from Durrow-Portlaoise as N77

Downgrade entire N82. If anything, the Outer Ring Road should be the N82, but I don't advocate putting any more national highways within the urbanised Dublin area.

Downgrade entire N83. With a dual N17, you'd be faster getting to Ballyhaunis using that and the N60.

Downgrade entire N84. With a dual N17, Galway-Castlebar traffic can go N17->Claremorris->N60.

Downgrade entire N87. No longer needed.

spacetweek

My ideas:

Build Dundalk-Sligo road on new alignment and designate N16. Downgrade N53 to R-road. Downgrade N12 to N54.

Build Carrick-on-Shannon to N5 link south of Lough Gara, and downgrade N5 Longford-new link road.

When M17 opens, redesignate old N17 Galway-N63 as N63.

Downgrade the N52 from Delvin (N51/N52 split) as far as Dundalk to R-road
Redesignate the N51 the N52

The N61, N80 and N52 are long and important strategic routes. They should be assigned national primary numbers to reflect this, N34-36.

Downgrade N53 to R-road. The new N26 will negate the need for two options to get to the N5 from Ballina.

Downgrade entire N73. Mitchelstown-Mallow can use M8 and N72, though the latter would need improvement.

Downgrade N78 from the N80 to the N77. Dublin-Kilkenny traffic should never need to go via Athy again.


I propose the following big changes to the N10 and N81. I propose downgrading the N10 and reassigning the number to the more important N81. I don't agree that the N81 is a pointless road. It's a radial from a major city.


Reasons to downgrade the N10

-When the M9 opens it will be a lot shorter and less significant
-It is out of sequence - occurs west of the N9/M9 instead of east
-Looking at other link roads from towns to motorways, they are all secondaries, not primaries. Examples: Ennis-M18: N85, Thurles-M8: N75/N62, Mitchelstown-M8: N73, Loughrea-M6: N66

Reasons to redesignate the N81 as the N10

-When it is eventually extended as dual as far as Blessington it should be a National Primary, not secondary, as it will be a new Dublin radial
-It is in sequence - occurs between the 9 and 11 routes


Actions I'd take:
Wait for M9 to be finished
Wait for N81 to be dualled as far as Blessington (2020?)
Downgrade the northern part of the N10 to N77
Downgrade the Kilkenny Ring Road part of the N10 to the N76
Downgrade the southern part of the N10 to an R-road
Redesignate the N81 from the M50 to Baltinglass as the N10
Extend the new N10 from Baltinglass to the M9 at Castledermot with SC
Downgrade the N81 inside the M50 to an R-road
Downgrade the N81 from Baltinglass to N80 to an R-road

CrowdedHouse

...honest to God not trolling..so what does downgrading actually do apart from changing the name and speed limits then ? Benefit gig for the Sign makers,map/atlas printers and Sat Nav upgraders ?

L1011

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

...honest to God not trolling..so what does downgrading actually do apart from changing the name and speed limits then ? Benefit gig for the Sign makers,map/atlas printers and Sat Nav upgraders ?

Eventually moves traffic to the routes with bigger numbers as signage, maps and satnavs get updated and people psychologically go for the "more important" route numbers.

Reduce the priority of the downgraded roads for upgrades and funding.

ardmacha

Build Dundalk-Sligo road on new alignment and designate N16. Downgrade N53 to R-road. Downgrade N12 to N54.

This is connected with questions such as the Dublin - Derry route and whether the Dundalk Sligo route should pass by Monaghan or Cavan. This might also be some sort of coordination with the NI people re an Enniskillen bypass.

The N12/N54 is related to question such as how do you get to Belfast from places, e.g. Cavan or even Galway. Belfast is an important centre and there should be some primary routes in that direction to equate to the Limerick -Waterford axis.

nordydan

I wouldn't downgrade the N12 either, I'd upgrade the N54 and possibly the N55

mysterious

I'd like to Delvin to Ardee upgraded its bloody awful. The New N52 would go between N51 and N52 for most of its lenght.

The N52 needs to upgraded from Borriskane to Kilcormac. Thats pretty extensive which means a bypass of Birr. The route should be 2+2 with no HS. The Roscrea bypass, Templemore and Thurles bypass.

I would keep the Junction after the M7/M8 for the R434 and upgrade that to N77. Allow Galway and Limerick traffic to join onto the SE network.

I was all for an orbital road from Drogheda to North of Navan via Enfield and ending at M9. Now I would just prefer an upgraded N52, I'm tired of the Dublin focus., It will only attract more traffic towards Dublin. I think the Orbital route would have a devastating impact on the Boyne valley, and it's already had enough destruction with the M3:mad:

T Corolla

When the M7/M8 comes onstream later this year which road to you think will get priority withregards to upgrading and funding the N80 Portlaoise to Tullamore or the N52 from Nenagh to Tullamore my guess the N80 as it is a better road in general and would require alot less spend per mile and population density would be similar to the N52 but this particular stretch of road needs alot of work

marmurr1916

nordydan wrote: »

I wouldn't downgrade the N12 either, I'd upgrade the N54 and possibly the N55

That's what I'd do - have the N12 connecting with the N6 at Athlone and heading towards Belfast via existing N55, N54 (would build new section to bypass the bit that crosses the border several times between Cavan and Monaghan) and the existing N12.

The new route could be signed as the main route between Galway and Belfast.

Obviously the existing roads would need a hell of a lot of work before they're of an acceptable standard to be a major inter-urban route between Galway and Belfast.

-Corkie-

spacetweek wrote: »

My ideas:

Build Dundalk-Sligo road on new alignment and designate N16. Downgrade N53 to R-road. Downgrade N12 to N54.

Build Carrick-on-Shannon to N5 link south of Lough Gara, and downgrade N5 Longford-new link road.

When M17 opens, redesignate old N17 Galway-N63 as N63.

Downgrade the N52 from Delvin (N51/N52 split) as far as Dundalk to R-road
Redesignate the N51 the N52

The N61, N80 and N52 are long and important strategic routes. They should be assigned national primary numbers to reflect this, N34-36.

Downgrade N53 to R-road. The new N26 will negate the need for two options to get to the N5 from Ballina.

Downgrade entire N73. Mitchelstown-Mallow can use M8 and N72, though the latter would need improvement.

Downgrade N78 from the N80 to the N77. Dublin-Kilkenny traffic should never need to go via Athy again.


I propose the following big changes to the N10 and N81. I propose downgrading the N10 and reassigning the number to the more important N81. I don't agree that the N81 is a pointless road. It's a radial from a major city.


Reasons to downgrade the N10

-When the M9 opens it will be a lot shorter and less significant
-It is out of sequence - occurs west of the N9/M9 instead of east
-Looking at other link roads from towns to motorways, they are all secondaries, not primaries. Examples: Ennis-M18: N85, Thurles-M8: N75/N62, Mitchelstown-M8: N73, Loughrea-M6: N66

Reasons to redesignate the N81 as the N10

-When it is eventually extended as dual as far as Blessington it should be a National Primary, not secondary, as it will be a new Dublin radial
-It is in sequence - occurs between the 9 and 11 routes


Actions I'd take:
Wait for M9 to be finished
Wait for N81 to be dualled as far as Blessington (2020?)
Downgrade the northern part of the N10 to N77
Downgrade the Kilkenny Ring Road part of the N10 to the N76
Downgrade the southern part of the N10 to an R-road
Redesignate the N81 from the M50 to Baltinglass as the N10
Extend the new N10 from Baltinglass to the M9 at Castledermot with SC
Downgrade the N81 inside the M50 to an R-road
Downgrade the N81 from Baltinglass to N80 to an R-road

When are you goin on to be a td a maybe taoiseach???? You definitley have my number one boy!!!!!!:D:D

Sponge Bob

Sadly Varadkar has retained the entire soup bar the N52 north of Ardee ( N33 a much better alternative) in his 2012 Order...these designation orders only appear rarely...maybe every 10 years...otherwise map makers would hate us.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0053.html

I cannot see a sensible revision to the secondary soup being undertaken for quite some time and certainly not on Leos watch as he would have to meet a lot of godforsaken backbenchers looking to keep 'their' roads were he to propose the requisite rationalisation.

A great opportunity, sadly, missed.