O'Connell street protest rally

mickeyfitzray

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

If I had brought my child to see the lights being turned on and that lot decided to protest then, at a children's event, I would have been furious tbh.

If the public aren't using it now (which anyone can see on a daily basis), let the cars have it.

Another couple of points here... the turning on of the lights was not a children's event. The only children there (my niece included) were there to protest.

Secondly, referring to the protestors as "that lot" may also be seen as rude. I've always read the posts here by all sides with respect and not once reffered to them in a disparaging manner.

Your last statement is as ridiculous as the "lazy" statement. I live in Dublin and come home to Sligo every weekend. O'Connell Street is in constant use at the weekend so you cannot say that it is empty on a daily basis. I realise it's not in use as much during the weekdays but that's because most people are at work. Go to any pedestrianised area in Ireland and you will have down times at these hours. It's still busy at lunch times and weekends.

It was also successfully used for the Cairde festival, Sligo Live and the O'Connell Street festivals which was also a huge boost to business in the area.

So again... moot point!

tedshredsonfire

Sligored if your coming from cairns hill you avoid the town altogether down pearse road left to crozon downs and onto the dual carridgeway right down ash lane and into hospital why would you venture to town at all?

Hopefully this thread stays civil no one is lazy if they are expressing their point of view, it means thay have a legitimate concern. Also walking to the hospital over a foot bridge may not be agreat way if your in pain etc.
But for alll those who say their lives are put in jepordy by the lack of access to the hospital what about the people of carraroe, collooney grange etc all live out of town and expect to be transported there as quick as humanly possible in an emergancy did everyone locate to the east ward to have hospital access?

Sligo chamber did not organise the protest on sunday as they had invited the mayor as their guest why would you invite someone just to blagard them you just would invite someone else imho? Just because there were some members of the chamber present does not mean they orchestrated the protest.

mickeyfitzray

Just read this on Sligo Today. As it turns out Paddy Gorman was the man who remonstrated with the Mayor and is apparently a member of the Chamber Of Commerce.

However the protest was certainly not organised by them as I know the people invloved in the protests and they came from a varied cross section of people in the town. See the letter by Eddie Lee at the end of the page.

Can we please now stop name calling and get into serious debate about this issue. The points I made before the name slanging started still haven't been addressed or debated properly. It seems every time I make these points the subject is changed or things go quiet.

dardevle

mickeyfitzray wrote: »

I'm banging my head against a brick wall saying this but we need a traffic plan! If that finds that opening up the street is the best way forward then so be it. I honestly don't think it is.


Isn't that what the councillors are supposed to do? If we don't ask for it we won't get it. We have been told by same Minister to cop on to the potentail we have. That would suggest to me they are well aware of the fact that Sligo has remained stagnant for at least the past ten years.

there was no traffic plan in 2006 when the street was closed...no mandate....no democratic vote...no plebscite...and plenty of opposition to it...that did'nt matter back then.


The county manager is an appointee of the minister for the environment...a non elected civil servant who answers to nobody .... at some point in time councillors have to stand before the people and be judged, but not the county manager... he was appointed in 1996 to the post and has seen councillors come and go...he has been a constant in the time that Sligo has remained stagnant. If there is breakdown in relations between the council and the department, and i believe there is, who do you think is responsible for it?

....

mickeyfitzray

dardevle wrote: »

there was no traffic plan in 2006 when the street was closed...no mandate....no democratic vote...no plebscite...and plenty of opposition to it...that did'nt matter back then.
....

With all due respect that was back then and there is only one poll in existence with about 600 signatures (if I remember correctly) from that time to prove your "plenty of opposition" claim.

dardevle wrote: »

The county manager is an appointee of the minister for the environment...a non elected civil servant who answers to nobody .... at some point in time councillors have to stand before the people and be judged, but not the county manager... he was appointed in 1996 to the post and has seen councillors come and go...he has been a constant in the time that Sligo has remained stagnant. If there is breakdown in relations between the council and the department, and i believe there is, who do you think is responsible for it?
....

That's a very fair point and I agree with you to a certain extent. I think however that the Councillors have been very successful in creating spin to pinpoint the likes of the County Manager and the Chamber Of Commerce. It's my view that it's a mixture of all three that are responsible.

Another theory about the County Manager that I'd like to put to rest is this idea that he deliberatley closed the street to force members of the East Ward to accept the bridge. This is a theory that has been posited here a couple of times and also by the Councillors themselves. It's a little hard to believe after reading this though.

She insisted that her community and Doorly Park/Martin Savage group had been lied to over the proposed development and had resulted in the two communities now being in conflict. She stated, "When we first became aware that there was a threat to the Regeneration funding we asked our representatives who informed us that we were mislead by council officials. We were told that the linkage being made to the Eastern Bridge crossing was a cynical attempt by the county manager and officials to force through other projects on the back of Cranmore.

"We have assessed documentation that shows that Sligo Borough Council has been aware of the Department's requirements that the Masterplan must include the wider area around Cranmore and the plans for the Eastern Bridge crossing since at least February 2007."

Sligored

tedshredsonfire wrote: »

Sligored if your coming from cairns hill you avoid the town altogether down pearse road left to crozon downs and onto the dual carridgeway right down ash lane and into hospital why would you venture to town at all?

Hopefully this thread stays civil no one is lazy if they are expressing their point of view, it means thay have a legitimate concern. Also walking to the hospital over a foot bridge may not be agreat way if your in pain etc.
But for alll those who say their lives are put in jepordy by the lack of access to the hospital what about the people of carraroe, collooney grange etc all live out of town and expect to be transported there as quick as humanly possible in an emergancy did everyone locate to the east ward to have hospital access?

Sligo chamber did not organise the protest on sunday as they had invited the mayor as their guest why would you invite someone just to blagard them you just would invite someone else imho? Just because there were some members of the chamber present does not mean they orchestrated the protest.

Let the 5 and 7 year old kids walk from crozon to the mercy primary school.
Brilliant!!!!!!! Why did i not think of that.
Maybe we should pedestrianise pearse road.
I will once again refrain from name calling

mickeyfitzray

Sligored wrote: »

Let the 5 and 7 year old kids walk from crozon to the mercy primary school.
Brilliant!!!!!!! Why did i not think of that.
Maybe we should pedestrianise pearse road.
I will once again refrain from name calling

Eh... I think he meant to drive that way! It would be nice if everyone could relax so that we could have a proper measured debate. You might even find we agree with each other on a lot of things.

redarmyblues

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

(And, I see you are new here, calling another poster lazy would be considered rude.)

Many of the more vociferous posts on here in favour of keeping the Street closed are from new members which makes me suspicious that some have come on here for that very purpose part of an unholy alliance between the local Arts Establishment and the Chamber of Commerce bully boys.

The arrogance of those people in the video is amazing, assuming ownership of the Street because everybody in their elitist clique assent to the imperative of keeping the street open for their annual fire eating, stilt walking and horrible bongo drumming event that pays their wages as community art organisers. The street is for the public use and local councillors as elected representatives do have the public ear and their opinion is that most Sligo people quietly agree with the proposal and the protestors represent a small yet noisy lobby mostly concerned with their own narrow interests.
How many of cultural elite concerned themselves or brought their finely tuned aesthetic sensibilities to bear upon the planned destruction of the effect of the wonderful Victorian landscaping of the Riverside/Doorly park by the imposition of a wholly hideous bridge? They were silent on the issue, they cannot bring their middle class asses into a working class area to admire what is perhaps the most beautiful place in any Irish urban area, is it because they are afraid they would be embarrassed by the satellite dishes, the crazy paving cladding, the absence of volvos and the presence of people in pyjamas.

You protesters disgraced yourselves in the clip, I wish it is widely seen.

Can somebody please tell me something about the genisis of the Sligo Today website?

The move to connect Cranmore Regen and the Eastern Bridge is utter cynicism and typical of our morally and literally bankrupt government.

mickeyfitzray

Redarmyblues

Your comment is ludicrous and snobbish in the extreme. You are guilty of all the accusations you make against others. Can we please get back to an open, measured debate instead of political mudslinging.

mickeyfitzray

Oh and for the record, even though I shouldn't have to explain myself, I lived in Doorly Park myself and half of my family were brought up in the East Ward. I am not part of any "cultural elite."

TequilaMockingBird

mickeyfitzray wrote: »

Another couple of points here... the turning on of the lights was not a children's event.

Who on earth is it for then?

mickeyfitzray wrote: »

only children there (my niece included) were there to protest.

Secondly, referring to the protestors as "that lot" may also be seen as rude. I've always read the posts here by all sides with respect and not once reffered to them in a disparaging manner.

I referred to "that lot" in the context of bringing my child to what I would have,. apparently mistakenly, believed to be a childrens event. To find it being used as a platform for protest would have really annoyed me. In future I will say "you lot" (No offence intended.)

mickeyfitzray wrote: »

Your last statement is as ridiculous as the "lazy" statement. I live in Dublin and come home to Sligo every weekend. O'Connell Street is in constant use at the weekend so you cannot say that it is empty on a daily basis. I realise it's not in use as much during the weekdays but that's because most people are at work. Go to any pedestrianised area in Ireland and you will have down times at these hours. It's still busy at lunch times and weekends.

If it is not in use as much during the week, as you say, then why not open it to traffic? Also it wasn't busy last Sunday was it?

mickeyfitzray wrote: »

It was also successfully used for the Cairde festival, Sligo Live and the O'Connell Street festivals which was also a huge boost to business in the area.]

So again... moot point!

Ah. "Business in the area".

totomcgrath

redarmyblues wrote: »

Many of the more vociferous posts on here in favour of keeping the Street closed are from new members which makes me suspicious that some have come on here for that very purpose part of an unholy alliance between the local Arts Establishment and the Chamber of Commerce bully boys.

thats the funniest thing I heard all week! So its a conspiracy! LOL

totomcgrath

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Who on earth is it for then?



If it is not in use as much during the week, as you say, then why not open it to traffic? Also it wasn't busy last Sunday was it?

".

Could you tell me please who in their right mind would gather in the pouring rain and freezing cold anywhere on a sunday afternoon, except those who feel passionately about the future of the city they live in.

TequilaMockingBird

totomcgrath wrote: »

Could you tell me please who in their right mind would gather in the pouring rain and freezing cold anywhere on a sunday afternoon, except those who feel passionately about the future of the city they live in.

So you would be okay with opening it to traffic in the Winter months, as nobody in their right mind is going to use it then are they?

We're getting somewhere!

totomcgrath

basquille wrote: »

Ah to be fair.. that's a harsh and ridiculous statement!

Why should Sligo Red have to walk across the footbridge? People don't just use cars for transport - what about lugging goods etc?

ok SLigo I take that back, taht was unfair, but I have to ask the question, how can anyone in their right mind see O'Connell Street as being a traffic solution, even temporary. This will just move the traffic jam from John St to castle/grattan street and possibly up Pearse Road.

is that worth losing a pedestrian civic centre for, where we can walk with our kids and socalise with other families?

shellyriver

I thought the ambush on Jimmy McGarry -- particularly in front of a camera -- was opportunistic and unwarranted.

Mayor McGarry may have made some unwise comments re Sligo when promoting the Corporation elected members view on Hook's prog, but to ballyrag him, when in a representative post on the town's main street at Christmas, in this fashion was hardly helpful and shouldn't be engaged in by those how should know how to conduct themselves with more dignity.

As an aside, the presenter on Sligo TV -- unless it's designed at being polemic or agenda driven reportage seems unable to advance this debate in a detached or objective matter with references to 'what can WE do' -- 'we'? who's we?, I'm watching your clips as someone interested in the debate, so the emphasis on 'We' is presumptuous.

Unfortunately I didn't hear George Hook's Sligo interviews - and despite his bewailing about Irish wishing to grasp a Euro-Centric lifestyle, that's grand in Summer, but more significantly it's impractical and not necessarily desired by every Irish citizen.

I continue to chuckle at the dreadful site of those deluded wanna-bes (Dublin, Sligo where ever) sitting in the freezing cold, clutching their purpled fleshed hands to over-priced 'FROTDY-COFFEE', often gasping on a cigarette.

Anyone old enough to remember the Ritz and the days of trays of fine pastries being presented with a tantalising glory before your gleaming eyes, can but remember with fondness of sitting INSIDE a wonderful gothic heating establishment and watching the poor unfortunates trundle by OUTSIDE.

Every place has its own charms, Groucho Marx said when it wasn't raining in London we would leave. Whilst most of the non-business driven pro-pedestrian lobby are living with En Seine propensities, the problem is Sligo isn't Paris -- and in this instance they County Manager picked a bleak main street with a view to presenting it as a jewel in our crown, I have said it before, but will repeat again, this is simply not the case.

Simply put -- it is apparent there is no available finance for the pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street, its being a White Elephant for a number of years. If the Minister was so concerned about relevant funding -- why didn't they come to Sligo, make the necessary allocations and this would keep the bigger picture in view.

The bigger question includes the previous points and who has invested in lands on either side of the proposed Eastern Bridge, therefore it's a case of who is going to directly gain (financially) and how is going to directly lose (socially).

As I said previously, and as has come to pass, a few long-standing members of the Chamber of Commerce 'with portfolios on the street' belated come out and say the street should be pedestrianised. This is called having a vested private interest.

As for the samba-drummers et al -- good grief. Although I did enjoy the zombie walkers, that is cultural and political parody.

Roll on the 9th of December, 2009. When there's money in the corporation's kitty open up a portion of Wine Street for pedestrianisation -- that's a street which would be worthwhile.

totomcgrath

redarmyblues wrote: »

The move to connect Cranmore Regen and the Eastern Bridge is utter cynicism and typical of our morally and literally bankrupt government.

In ignoring the substantial public objection to the reopening of O'Connell Street, the council have also flouted guidelines in the Planning Act 200 and National Spatial Strategy. Its about looking at the whole picture instead of little bits of it.

By the way, redarmyblues, why have you issues with Sligo Today? They are just reporting what they see. A poll in today's Sligo Weekender asked people the following question: Do you think Sligo Borough Councillors deserve the criticism they have received over the decision to reopen O'Connell Street? 93% said YES to this question: The 7% that voted NO must be Mayor McGarry's silent majority I suppose. :P

redarmyblues

mickeyfitzray wrote: »

Redarmyblues

Your comment is ludicrous and snobbish in the extreme. You are guilty of all the accusations you make against others. Can we please get back to an open, measured debate instead of political mudslinging.

Hmmm, I hit home you mean.

Lets introduce some perspective here. There is and has consistently been opposition from the SCOC to a western bypass of Sligo, I cannot say why but some of its senior members live on or near the proposed route. The Co Manager who appears to be a stooge of business interests has therefore decided to proceed piecemeal and by stealth with an Eastern road to try and address local traffic conditions in Sligo Town as the Mid Block road which he supported failed to do.

His intended route is from Carraroe to Cleveragh road cutting away a large section of Cairns Hill very close to the Cairns in the process. Then through the middle of the racecourse, (the remainder of which is to be sold to developers) then through Doorly Park across the river where 20000 cars are daily to be inserted into Ballinode junction. What is key to the proposal is that the racecourse is opened to development and that certain prime lands to the north of the river be serviced by road. If this was not the case, the obvious route for an Eastern road would be further east emerging near Hazelwood saw mills enabling access to the N16 at Barroe, at the bottom of the Hill behind Yeats Heights. This route would use the Back Avenue approach south of the river (it was widened with this in behind a few years ago) and cross at the boathouse, the initial section of the road would use the Cairns Hill approach. Although in this route would make more sense in road engineering terms I oppose it also.

The Eastern Bridge/No Western Bypass/Close O Connell Street issues are connected together by one local wealthy family who have a house on the route of the Western Bypass, own substantial properties on O Connell Street and also own development lands north of the river on the current proposed approach road to the Eastern Bridge.

If you are seriously interested in solving this issue perhaps you would be better served by making common cause with your fellow citizens rather than with a commercial lobby. I say no eastern road and build a bridge connecting The Mall and Kennedy Parade to emerge at the site where Higgins Shop used to be. Such a bridge could be built quickly and cheaply (though there would be gradient and rat run issues) and it would solve access issues for local people. It is a solution that was adopted in Enniskillen where you can see two bridges built side by side.

I would also like to add that if you want to have a civic space I propose Stephen St carpark.

totomcgrath

shellyriver wrote: »

I thought the ambush on Jimmy McGarry -- particularly in front of a camera -- was opportunistic and unwarranted.

The right to protest is a fundamental human right.

shellyriver wrote: »

Mayor McGarry may have made some unwise comments re Sligo when promoting the Corporation elected members view on Hook's prog,

Let me just clarify this. The mayor, whose responsibility is the upkeep of his city, described his main street as dark dilapidated and dangerous, on national radio. Ok, is that not a politically suicidal statement?

shellyriver wrote: »

If the Minister was so concerned about relevant funding -- why didn't they come to Sligo, make the necessary allocations and this would keep the bigger picture in view.

The minister did come to Sligo and made it very clear. There is over €100million at stake for sligo. What point are you trying to make?

Incidentally, I have nothing to do with the Chamber of Commerce. Neither am I a samba drummer. I love Sligo. I was born and bred here. I walk my children down O'Connell Street often. Its a no brainer as far as I'm concerned, a modern city centre needs a pedestrian civic centre where families can walk and socialise. Where markets, concerts, festivals can occur. Its about quality oif life. If I wanted to live in Paris, i would live in Paris. THat doesnt mean i shouldn't aspire to making Sligo a better place.

totomcgrath

redarmyblues wrote: »

If you are seriously interested in solving this issue perhaps you would be better served by making common cause with your fellow citizens rather than with a commercial lobby.

This campaign against the reopening of O'Connell Street is NOT coming from the SCOC. It is in fact a group of fellow citizens who care about our town. Poll results in today's Sligo Weekender: Do you think Sligo Borough Councillors deserve the criticism they have received over the decision to reopen O'Connell Street? 93% said YES. That was an open web poll of the people of Sligo, not our COC.

redarmyblues wrote: »

I say no eastern road and build a bridge connecting The Mall and Kennedy Parade to emerge at the site where Higgins Shop used to be. Such a bridge could be built quickly and cheaply (though there would be gradient and rat run issues) and it would solve access issues for local people. It is a solution that was adopted in Enniskillen where you can see two bridges built side by side.

But Enniskillen is a traffic nightmare! Far worse than Sligo! If you travel in Europe you will see that invariably the cities least affected by traffic problems will all have a civic pedestrian centre and major roads and bridges taking the traffic away from the centre.

redarmyblues

totomcgrath wrote: »

thats the funniest thing I heard all week! So its a conspiracy! LOL

What else have you posted on apart from this issue?

redarmyblues

totomcgrath wrote: »

This campaign against the reopening of O'Connell Street is NOT coming from the SCOC. It is in fact a group of fellow citizens who care about our town. Poll results in today's Sligo Weekender: Do you think Sligo Borough Councillors deserve the criticism they have received over the decision to reopen O'Connell Street? 93% said YES. That was an open web poll of the people of Sligo, not our COC.




But Enniskillen is a traffic nightmare! Far worse than Sligo! If you travel in Europe you will see that invariably the cities least affected by traffic problems will all have a civic pedestrian centre and major roads and bridges taking the traffic away from the centre.

You only seem to care about keeping O Connell Street closed to traffic as far as I can see. I would also liked to remind you your friends in the COC insisted that traffic went through Sligo rather than around it. Enniskillen is an Island between two lakes and yet is easier to negotiate, at least when it is not beset with southern shoppers than Sligo.

totomcgrath

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

So you would be okay with opening it to traffic in the Winter months, as nobody in their right mind is going to use it then are they?

We're getting somewhere!

If one day is atrocious, every winter's day is automatically the same?

Incidentally during the xmas rush O'Connell street is going to be a dangerous place for young children, many of whom would not remember it as anything other than an area where they can run around. Therefore the council reopening it to traffic at the start of the busy xmas period is arguably neglectful.

shellyriver

My point re the ambush -- was not the demo per se -- but the 'afters' ie comments made, to my eye, principally to vent a spleen, as I said it wasn't helpful, particularly, if you wished to dissuade the said politico to change his mind.

Re political suicide -- that's something Jimmy McGarry will have to worry about.

Re -- making Sligo a better place and securing a more attractive and prosperous future, any right thinking person is in favour of that proposal.

My point regarding the Funding -- was the funding for pedestrianisation -- which it quite obviously never transpired, despite the over-vaunted wearisome and inaccurate City Status that has been hung around Old Sligo's neck.

Of course I am aware Michael Finneran was in town, however, this was primarily to push the Cleveragh Bridge proposal -- re National Spatial Planning (that latter term can often be a misnomer).

If I wished to live in any country, I to could factor in all the elements of my existence and make that same decision. That is hardly the same as trying to introduce elements of foreign life (which, I make the point, equate in some people's minds as being 'more cosmopolitan) into a West of Ireland scenario, with comments of Shop Street, Grafton Street, blah, blah, blah.

Re the high-minded civic municipal area etc -- this is shrill and unconvincing, look at Rockwood Parade as a pride example of the success to date of pedestrianisation in Sligo (with the advantage of a wonderful riverside vantage).

Look, I don't wish to argue ad nauseum with anyone on this site on this -- I too would have loved to see O'Connell Street pedestrianised (and done properly) but it wasn't and increasingly looks unlikely to be currently.

But take the blinkers off regarding the real agenda behind those how have belated come in full steam behind keeping O'Connell Street 'traffic-free' -- its obvious, there is more to meet the eye than it would first appear.

The level of Governmental interest and Co Council Executive interest in upgrading our bleak main street is obvious to see -- now the chickens have come home to roost, cue the shrill, 11th hour accusations.

Sorry, that's just my opinion.

PS Redarmy -- I like your second bridge at the Mall proposal, cost effective and logical.

totomcgrath

redarmyblues wrote: »

You only seem to care about keeping O Connell Street closed to traffic as far as I can see. I would also liked to remind you your friends in the COC insisted that traffic went through Sligo rather than around it. Enniskillen is an Island between two lakes and yet is easier to negotiate, at least when it is not beset with southern shoppers than Sligo.

I have no friends in COC. I dont have any such affiliations. I want a pedestrian civic centre where I can walk with my wife and young children and socialise with other families. I would also like to see the council take care of its people and make sure that Sligo doesnt miss out on over 100m of funding and all the subsequent jobs that are created etc

totomcgrath

shellyriver wrote: »

Re the high-minded civic municipal area etc -- this is shrill and unconvincing, look at Rockwood Parade as a pride example of the success to date of pedestrianisation in Sligo (with the advantage of a wonderful riverside vantage).

Hang on, Rockwood Parade is not pedestrian!. It has 24 hour vehicular access. Plus, it is too narrow to cater for the many events that could happen in a proper pedestrian area, like markets, concerts, street theatre events and festivals.

And what is "high Minded" and "Shrill" about wanting a pedestrian civic centre for my children?

totomcgrath

redarmyblues wrote: »

What else have you posted on apart from this issue?

what difference does it make?

TequilaMockingBird

Rockwood is perfectly sufficent for a town of this size.

The first event I went to in Sligo was a concert (maybe Sligo Live?) which was held in Stephen Street Car Park years ago. Great day and night for adults and children alike.

I just honestly don't understand the outrage at the street being re-opened. Although I have zero interest in socialising on a street with my child. We have playgrounds for that.

To me, as an observer, it looks like there are ulterior motives for the protest, otherwise why get SO het up about a street being opened?

dardevle

totomcgrath wrote: »

Poll results in today's Sligo Weekender: Do you think Sligo Borough Councillors deserve the criticism they have received over the decision to reopen O'Connell Street? 93% said YES. That was an open web poll of the people of Sligo, not our COC.
quote]


just voted on the poll, so the % in favor is now down to 84% of the 25 people of Sligo who have voted so far.:cool:

http://www.tcm.ie/webpolls/xlaabsolute2.asp?p=828&view=viewpoll



...

totomcgrath

redarmyblues wrote: »

I say no eastern road and build a bridge connecting The Mall and Kennedy Parade to emerge at the site where Higgins Shop used to be. Such a bridge could be built quickly and cheaply (though there would be gradient and rat run issues) and it would solve access issues for local people. It is a solution that was adopted in Enniskillen where you can see two bridges built side by side.

I would also like to add that if you want to have a civic space I propose Stephen St carpark.

Dont get me wrong. I am interested in this subject. We do need alternatives. So where does the approach road go and how many residents do you think would be displaced, buildings demolished etc? AFAIK the original eastern bridge route was actually displacing a minimum number of people. Ok the main road going through Doorly Park is major inconvenience to residents but actual displacement was very low, keeping costs down. A new road in the middld of town sounds very expensive, plus the run up to there would have to go through a whole swathe of the town centre would it not? (I mean abbey st/teeling st etc)