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O'Connell street protest rally
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i have nothing to gain from this protest except a pedestrian town centre. I am inconvenienced regularly by the traffic system. We all are. Thats not the point. The point is quality of life. And a borough council that ignores the wishes of the people that elected it.TequilaMockingBird wrote: »Rockwood is perfectly sufficent for a town of this size.
The first event I went to in Sligo was a concert (maybe Sligo Live?) which was held in Stephen Street Car Park years ago. Great day and night for adults and children alike.
I just honestly don't understand the outrage at the street being re-opened. Although I have zero interest in socialising on a street with my child. We have playgrounds for that.
To me, as an observer, it looks like there are ulterior motives for the protest, otherwise why get SO het up about a street being opened?0 -
and what about the 2859 people who signed a petition asking the councillors to keep the street closed to traffic. And the 3000+ on facebook supporting the same cause? All dismissed by the borough council with disdain.totomcgrath wrote: »Poll results in today's Sligo Weekender: Do you think Sligo Borough Councillors deserve the criticism they have received over the decision to reopen O'Connell Street? 93% said YES. That was an open web poll of the people of Sligo, not our COC.
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just voted on the poll, so the % in favor is now down to 84% of the 25 people of Sligo who have voted so far.:cool:
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Ehm, that's my point -- Rockwood Parade should be pedestrianised fully. Although to be fair I don't see many 'artics' taking a right at the Yeats Building.
There is huge scope to completely develop the Stephen's Street Car-Park area as a Civic Municipal area -- take all vehicles of it and devote as a green lung and amenity area slap back in the centre of Sligo.
I had to smirk at the hysterical notes sounded regarding, I am not bringing my children down O'Connell Street if there are vehicles - they are not used to it:D
There are many viable options to pedestrianise parts of Sligo. The Stephen St Car Park proposal would assist in those with a stakehold on Rockwood Parade -- if this was done properly. It can be completely pedestrianised -- with the exception of times required for dropping off goods etc.
The reality is Co Council have allowed Cleveragh to become developed as a retail hub, refused to permit such shopping at Carroroe, wish to further enhance this develop, and require a bridge to give it extra 'foot-fall'.
The pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street is merely a sop to the above ambition. All the guff about Cranmore Regeneration -- I find it very hard to take much of this very seriously.
That's my opinion.
To look at the precedent of success of Sligo Co Council and Corporation regarding infrastructural projects.
It was proposed years ago to ped Market Street, this never happened. Rockwood Parade was developed with tax incentives and Local Authority backing, a piece of drab, unambitious and pastiche architecture, throughout Ireland would be hard found in such a similarly wonderful location. Look at the catastrophe that is the Mid-Block Route! Look at the planning, investment impasse of Sligo centre over the last 10 years! regarding the utter nonsense that is the proposed Wine Street Shopping Centre. I could go on.
Do you really expect anyone, with the ability to cognate to genuinely believe that the Executive collective of Sligo municipal have the best interests of native Sligonians in mind, when they embark upon such ludicrous plans.
Look at the money spent on the by-passing of Waterford -- colossal. I don't mind if its a private-public project, because I won't be using it. But this is what the Government can do with its shoulder to the wheel, but oh no not in Sligo.
The money required in Sligo was peanuts, but of course it was never forthcoming. All the above cost-saving projects end up cutting the town to ribbons and leaving looking a ramshackled mess during the intervening period.
But you're happy once you can preambulate down our bleak main street with kids in toe! Well, I too, have kids, they are happy to walk anywhere, but that doesn't blind me to the reality of what is happening with regard the alleged highly contested argument in favour of keeping O'Connell Street free of traffic.0 -
[quote=totomcgrath;63401176
and what about the 2859 people who signed a petition asking the councillors to keep the street closed to traffic. And the 3000+ on facebook supporting the same cause? All dismissed by the borough council with disdain.[/quote]
....while i am all in favor of the democratic process, when last i checked... 2,859 from a population of 19,402 does not a majority make.
( and that would be assuming that all those who voted in the poll were actually resident of the town)
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TequilaMockingBird wrote: »Rockwood is perfectly sufficent for a town of this size.
The first event I went to in Sligo was a concert (maybe Sligo Live?) which was held in Stephen Street Car Park years ago. Great day and night for adults and children alike.
I just honestly don't understand the outrage at the street being re-opened. Although I have zero interest in socialising on a street with my child. We have playgrounds for that.
To me, as an observer, it looks like there are ulterior motives for the protest, otherwise why get SO het up about a street being opened?
Spot on. Why does it have to be O Connell St, why does only this Street fit the bill. Tomtommcgrath's motives are not ulterior they are obvious he came on this site to lobby for the closure of O Connell Street and the completion of the Eastern bridge at Riverside because he or those he represents have a vested interest in this. I guess he is connected to Fianna Fail or else he is the only being extant credulous enough to believe that Sligo will be granted €100m as a reward for keeping O Connell street open, he has clearly connected the Eastern Bridge and O Connell Street in his posts and it seems evident that the suspicions of Councillors and others on the issue were
correct.
Does he seriously think that people on here are so stupid as not to recognise a one issue spammer when they see one.0 -
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well dont think their going to pedestianis it now, the money spent on widening the pavements, bollards, railings, signs, traffic lights and road markings over the last week or two could have gone a long way towards pedestrianisation, with automatic bollards at the top and bottom to allow for trade access in the mornings and emergancy access when needed0
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shellyriver wrote: »Ehm, that's my point -- Rockwood Parade should be pedestrianised fully. Although to be fair I don't see many 'artics' taking a right at the Yeats Building.
There is huge scope to completely develop the Stephen's Street Car-Park area as a Civic Municipal area -- take all vehicles of it and devote as a green lung and amenity area slap back in the centre of Sligo.
I had to smirk at the hysterical notes sounded regarding, I am not bringing my children down O'Connell Street if there are vehicles - they are not used to it:D
There are many viable options to pedestrianise parts of Sligo. The Stephen St Car Park proposal would assist in those with a stakehold on Rockwood Parade -- if this was done properly. It can be completely pedestrianised -- with the exception of times required for dropping off goods etc.
The reality is Co Council have allowed Cleveragh to become developed as a retail hub, refused to permit such shopping at Carroroe, wish to further enhance this develop, and require a bridge to give it extra 'foot-fall'.
The pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street is merely a sop to the above ambition. All the guff about Cranmore Regeneration -- I find it very hard to take much of this very seriously.
That's my opinion.
To look at the precedent of success of Sligo Co Council and Corporation regarding infrastructural projects.
It was proposed years ago to ped Market Street, this never happened. Rockwood Parade was developed with tax incentives and Local Authority backing, a piece of drab, unambitious and pastiche architecture, throughout Ireland would be hard found in such a similarly wonderful location. Look at the catastrophe that is the Mid-Block Route! Look at the planning, investment impasse of Sligo centre over the last 10 years! regarding the utter nonsense that is the proposed Wine Street Shopping Centre. I could go on.
Do you really expect anyone, with the ability to cognate to genuinely believe that the Executive collective of Sligo municipal have the best interests of native Sligonians in mind, when they embark upon such ludicrous plans.
Look at the money spent on the by-passing of Waterford -- colossal. I don't mind if its a private-public project, because I won't be using it. But this is what the Government can do with its shoulder to the wheel, but oh no not in Sligo.
The money required in Sligo was peanuts, but of course it was never forthcoming. All the above cost-saving projects end up cutting the town to ribbons and leaving looking a ramshackled mess during the intervening period.
But you're happy once you can preambulate down our bleak main street with kids in toe! Well, I too, have kids, they are happy to walk anywhere, but that doesn't blind me to the reality of what is happening with regard the alleged highly contested argument in favour of keeping O'Connell Street free of traffic.
Good post, obviously from a Sligo native who knows his history. It is about time the running of Sligo was taken away from unelected technocrats and traders and given back to elected representatives.
You can excuse the Drummers, the Daubers, the Dabblers in Verse and the Deluded Cappuchino Jobs as they are mostly blow in's and often don't know enough about the local stuff.0 -
My God lads... you reference polls and surveys only when it suits you to and then ignore and sometimes deride the fact that sixty submissions have been made to the council supporting pedestrianisation compared to two against. This included a petition signed by over 2,500 people.
You can't pick and choose your facts lads. Please can we get back to reasonable debate and save this thread from the conspiracy theorists?
This is not, and should not be, an us and them issue as some members here are trying to imply. I have friends and relatives who support the re-opening of the street but we can debate it without insulting each other and resorting to childish mud slinging. And as I said before I believe that we can come to a solution that will placate everybody... it's more than possible. Can we work towards that please? Is it too much to ask?0 -
mickeyfitzray wrote: »My God lads... you reference polls and surveys only when it suits you to and then ignore and sometimes deride the fact that sixty submissions have been made to the council supporting pedestrianisation compared to two against. This included a petition signed by over 2,500 people.
The County manager apparently asked interested parties to make submissions I have a business in the town centre but I am not a member of the SCOC closed shop society so I had no communication from the Town or County Hall about this. I understand that the submissions made were largely from SCOC members and business groups. In the end the only opinion poll that counts are the local election results and they say close the street that I am afraid is democracy, which you choose to deride. The fact is those opposed are better organised, resourced and better motivated (by money) than those who are in favour of the measure and the submissions made reflect that.
A petition is not fit for use as an ass wipe. It does not record those who refused to sign. With enough pollsters, with a nice manner and the question nicely couched is not too hard to get people to sign a petition.
It has been suggested by me and other posters that the Rockwood Parade/Stephen Street and its carpark might best serve as a civic space/town park/ pedestrianised street. There are plenty of Cafes and Bars where you can engage is earnest debate, stroke your beard and sip your coffee. Stephen Street has little Traffic, and Parking can be accommodated on the section of the connaughton road carpark currently used a compound. A local developer wants to develop another carpark on land adjacent to this. A riverside green lung in the centre of Sligo, how nice would that be.
Give the people of the East Ward access to the northside via a bridge Between Kennedy Parade and the Mall. There is a laneway and right of way in place already that emerges between old Higgins shop and a fine period three story with a fanlight. The road through to the mall would use part of the garden of the period house and break through Higgins shop which is currently empty. When that is done they can allow the Fumble in the Greasy Tillers to close O Connell St, if they still choose to.
By the way go google maps satellite view and you can see my proposed route
These are my suggestions.
Can I also ask you what you suppose the motivations of Councillors are, in opening the street?0 -
mickeyfitzray wrote: »My God lads... you reference polls and surveys only when it suits you to and then ignore and sometimes deride the fact that sixty submissions have been made to the council supporting pedestrianisation compared to two against. This included a petition signed by over 2,500 people.quote]
.... do you still consider 2,500 to be a majority??
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Was passing O'Connell St. this morning at 7:30 on my way to work, and none other than Declan Bree was there at the top of the street for the big opening. No doubt another great photo oppertunity.0
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I have just remembered some events that underline the hypocrisy involved in this debate. SCOC far from being commited to the use of O Connell Street as a civic space, a venue for continental cafe culture or markets and so forth have instead, opposed such developments.
(i) A Sligo Rovers pre season Football Festival to be held on a newly closed O Connell Street cancelled at the insistence of Tony "I wasn't given enough notice" Wherly.
(ii) Patrons of McGarrigles and the Bistro prevented from consuming Alcoholic beverages on seating outside the respective establishments, after complaints from a nearby shopkeeper and SCOC bigwig.
(iii) The "not an onion brigade" petition local executive to refuse a request to allow Sligo Farmers Market to operate in a Town Centre Location even on a once off basis.
Save us the sanctimony,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And pray to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone,
For men were born to pray and save.
I was on the Street today and it looks an utter kip, when I first came to Sligo it was a fine and handsome place full of old fashioned shop fronts, in contrast to its current ramshackle appearance. The fault for this rests with the planners and the Traders who were more than happy to see "divilipmint" at any cost and didn't have the foresight of places like Kilkenny and Westport.
O Connor brothers gone, The Cellar Bar gone, Johnstons gone, McGanns fruit and Veg gone, The Wood and Iron Gone, there are others, older posters will remember, but it is not so much the businesses I mourn, but the elegant facades of a prosperous old market town.0 -
Just breezed down teeling st , castle st , oconnell st over hyde bridge and over to hospital in about 3 mins as people were quite happily doing their shopping on o connell street. Sanity has prevailed at last.0
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I'm only a very occasional contributor to this forum - I don't live in Sligo anymore but go back regularly (I lived there for 20 years)
I'm in favour of the pedestrianisation of O'Connell St but I thought it looked pretty bad without proper paving / lighting etc. I've always thought a less expensive, more modest Eastern bridge would've solved the problem
This post interested me. But I think a better spot would be where Carbury National School is at the moment. Picture it - drive past the Grammar, turn left at the mini roundabout, down the hill, and pass over a new bridge (at a narrow point of the river) and you're in Doorly Park. All that would need to be done is re-locate one small primary school. Hey presto, we have a new crossing over the river and O'Connell street can be closed and pedestrianised properly this time!I say no eastern road and build a bridge connecting The Mall and Kennedy Parade to emerge at the site where Higgins Shop used to be. Such a bridge could be built quickly and cheaply (though there would be gradient and rat run issues) and it would solve access issues for local people. It is a solution that was adopted in Enniskillen where you can see two bridges built side by side.0 -
^funny enough carbury school is too small for their needs, they had planned to relocate on a temp basis and build a new school on the current site but could not find a suitable place for a temp school, now if sbc were to provide an alternative site for a new school.....
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^^^
this would be more of a natural fit imo.... although the river at this point is wider than downstream at the higgins shop route, it would seem to me that the issue of gradients is not as acute as at that location,
can anyone tell me if carbury school is affiliated with the grammar school in any way or are they just neighbours?
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Well.... Look what they have done! I drove down the street today, they can not even line up the street markings. It is a joke, a very expensive joke that makes us look like the fools that we are. Really the point of giving a few feet inside the stainless steel tubes is for what? A complete hybrid of a street now, pug ugly and a classic Sligo fudge. It is embarassing. Coupled with the "images" of how Wine Street car park will look Dec 2012 :rolleyes: in yesterdays champion I do not know what to think of our town.
We as a population/community are taking it in the tight one by a combination of elected morans and shrewd sharks and asking, no begging, for more. Seriously the money spent on O'Connell street debacle over the last 5 years or so would, in the hands of a professional honest person, have built the bridge we need.
We should hang our heads at what we have ended up with!0 -
blackiebest wrote: »Well.... Look what they have done! I drove down the street today, they can not even line up the street markings. It is a joke, a very expensive joke that makes us look like the fools that we are. Really the point of giving a few feet inside the stainless steel tubes is for what? A complete hybrid of a street now, pug ugly and a classic Sligo fudge. It is embarassing. Coupled with the "images" of how Wine Street car park will look Dec 2012 :rolleyes: in yesterdays champion I do not know what to think of our town.
We as a population/community are taking it in the tight one by a combination of elected morans and shrewd sharks and asking, no begging, for more. Seriously the money spent on O'Connell street debacle over the last 5 years or so would, in the hands of a professional honest person, have built the bridge we need.
We should hang our heads at what we have ended up with!
couldnt agree more, but the bridge would cost a tad more than that in fairness!0 -
at the risk of repeating myself: This decision has ignored the majority of submissions made during the consultation period into the planning process: 60 submissions opposing the removal of the pedestrianised street totaling signatures by 2850 persons, as opposed to two submissions supporting the opening of O’Connell Street to traffic signed by 100 people. This constitutes a 96.5% majority.....while i am all in favor of the democratic process, when last i checked... 2,859 from a population of 19,402 does not a majority make.
( and that would be assuming that all those who voted in the poll were actually resident of the town)
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In the case of O'Connell Street's depestrianisation, our councillors:
Ignored the consultation process
Ignored 96.5% of citizen submissions including petitions combining 2,850 signatures
Ignored O’ Connell Street Traders
Ignored the Sligo Chamber of Commerce
Ignored City Planners
Ignored City Engineers
Ignored County Manager
Ignored Local TDs
Ignored Minister Finneran
Ignore Consistent Media requests for comments
Ignore and mock citizens peacefully protesting
Ignored Citizen O’Connell Street Festivals
Ignored countless Individual Citizen Letters, Texts, phone calls and face to face lobbying
Ignored Facebook site with over 3000 members
(http://www.facebook.com/oconnellstreet)0 -
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*please read the forum charter - insulting other users is not okay - fozzle0
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redarmyblues wrote: »Spot on. Why does it have to be O Connell St, why does only this Street fit the bill. Tomtommcgrath's motives are not ulterior they are obvious he came on this site to lobby for the closure of O Connell Street and the completion of the Eastern bridge at Riverside because he or those he represents have a vested interest in this. I guess he is connected to Fianna Fail or else he is the only being extant credulous enough to believe that Sligo will be granted €100m as a reward for keeping O Connell street open, he has clearly connected the Eastern Bridge and O Connell Street in his posts and it seems evident that the suspicions of Councillors and others on the issue were
correct.
Does he seriously think that people on here are so stupid as not to recognise a one issue spammer when they see one.
Good grief. How does one deal with such an attempt at character assassination! You sure need thick skin here dont you?!!
I have been absent from Boards for a while now for no particular reason, havent had occasion to contribute and make no apology about that. I saw this thread and took an interest as i have been protesting against the reopening of O'Connell Street because I believe it is sending Sligo back to the mid 20th century and is totally regressive.
I am not connected politically to any party. In fact I voted No 1 for Bree in the last election and now live to regret it, particularly with the recent revelations about his behaviour towards others.
If you researched your info, you would know there is no promise of 100 million depending on O'Connell Street, but there is funding available should a route for the bridge be found. Is it unreasonable for me to ask why the council hasnt been able to find a solution here? Is that lobbying?
Thirdly I have no vested interest in the Bridge, other than having the opinion that an eastern bridge would go a long way to solving Sligo's traffic problems as far as the east ward is concerned.0 -
...totomcgrath wrote: »at the risk of repeating myself: This decision has ignored the majority of submissions made during the consultation period into the planning process: 60 submissions opposing the removal of the pedestrianised street totaling signatures by 2850 persons, as opposed to two submissions supporting the opening of O’Connell Street to traffic signed by 100 people. This constitutes a 96.5% majority.
seems to me that those 60 submission only represented the views of 2859 people...or 14.7% of the population of the town....versus a majority decision by 12 elected officials who heard it from the majority on the doorsteps.
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..totomcgrath wrote: »Good grief. How does one deal with such an attempt at character assassination! You sure need thick skin here dont you?!!
I am not connected politically to any party. In fact I voted No 1 for Bree in the last election and now live to regret it, particularly with the recent revelations about his behaviour towards others..
character assassination indeed:rolleyes:
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seems to me that those 60 submission only represented the views of 2859 people...or 14.7% of the population of the town....versus a majority decision by 12 elected officials who heard it from the majority on the doorsteps.
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Well i hope you are happy with the result? Looks real professional dont you think!:o It is stunning that the 'majority' you refer to never came out and showed their opposition to the streets closure at the time. End result is a total fudge and it will be interesting to see how the street looks over the next few months/years.
The elected officials in city hall have perfected the art of bitching and fighting over getting nothing done properly, make it up as they go along and constantly fcuk up the development of this town!!!0 -
totomcgrath wrote: »Good grief. How does one deal with such an attempt at character assassination! You sure need thick skin here dont you?!!
I have been absent from Boards for a while now for no particular reason, havent had occasion to contribute and make no apology about that. I saw this thread and took an interest as i have been protesting against the reopening of O'Connell Street because I believe it is sending Sligo back to the mid 20th century and is totally regressive.
I am not connected politically to any party. In fact I voted No 1 for Bree in the last election and now live to regret it, particularly with the recent revelations about his behaviour towards others.
If you researched your info, you would know there is no promise of 100 million depending on O'Connell Street, but there is funding available should a route for the bridge be found. Is it unreasonable for me to ask why the council hasnt been able to find a solution here? Is that lobbying?
Thirdly I have no vested interest in the Bridge, other than having the opinion that an eastern bridge would go a long way to solving Sligo's traffic problems as far as the east ward is concerned.
You first posted on Boards 2 days ago, your first twenty posts were on this thread and they more or less said,
-Keep O Connell Street closed.
-Chilren will skip and Gambol.
-Build an Eastern Bridge.
-The Party will give us 100M
-Everyone agrees.
-Yay.
You then, in order to hide, when confronted about it, your naked vested interest in this issue, posted 2 other token contributions.
Do you expect anything more evolved than a turtle to believe any of your assertions on here, it would help if you would engage in argument rather than retyping your tedious mantra. Perhaps you need more practice in how these forums work and you might find it over in Gombeen Politics, I hear they are looking for a mod.0 -
Guys, this is getting personal and that's not okay. If you can debate the pros and cons of the reopening like civilised adults it's fine, but anymore insults or mudslinging and this is being locked.
Thanks for your time
fozzle0 -
blackiebest wrote: »Well i hope you are happy with the result? Looks real professional dont you think!:o It is stunning that the 'majority' you refer to never came out and showed their opposition to the streets closure at the time. End result is a total fudge and it will be interesting to see how the street looks over the next few months/years.
The elected officials in city hall have perfected the art of bitching and fighting over getting nothing done properly, make it up as they go along and constantly fcuk up the development of this town!!!
You or I may think a majority are in favour of closing the street but you or I have no way of knowing for sure. From talking to people I would guess that the majority don't really give a damm either way.
There is however a lot to be said for politicans making unpopular decisions for the sake of what they believe to be right, I wish that our present government would have make a few over the last few years instead of pandering to public opinion, nay public hysteria and there might be funds to finish off O Connell Street and build all these roads and bridges and castles in the sky.0 -
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blackie,
i am happy the street has reopened:)...the end result is a victory for common sense,
but lest we forget that, when the street was closed it was a ball$, where were the protests about the lack of progress for the last 3 years....the chamber/street traders association were quite happy to sit back and reap the benefits of footfall on the street, while not protesting about funding, for fear somebody should suggest that heaven forbid, they themselves should enhance the street they do business on, and in the meantime the clique that are now protesting were quite happy to remain silent during that period...all the while the irony remains, that if only these groups had found their collective voices 3 years ago, the money for enhancement works would probably have been found and there would have been no going back from pedestrianisation.!
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Took a few spins down it today.. it really is an absolute godsend for East Ward drivers.
But in saying that.. I am in fact conflicted.
I liked it pedestrianised (we were moving towards the vision of being a bigger city - hate to use the term "metropolis" - with our main street pedestrianised), but the ability to skip the combination of John Street, Adelaide Street and Wine Street is a welcome change for me as a driver.
I do think the bollards on either side look a bit ridiculous.. safer definitely but christ, it's a bit overkill!0
This discussion has been closed.
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