Gas Bills for House for a Year

burger1979

hi folks,

i live in a 4 bed detached house and i have just totalled up my gas bill for the previous year, it has turned out to be €1,007 for the period Oct 08 to now. I just want to know if anyone else has ideas if this is expensive or average. I use the gas for cooking and heating.

thanks,

burger

kidsbo

could do with more info...age of house and size of house for a start. but for the sake of some comparson ill say the following..i use abot €1400 a year of lpg for a 2008 self build (i.e. well insuilated) 2800 sq ft house.

Webbs

We have 3 bed semi detached (only 2 of us in the house though) and bill for last year (Oct to Oct) for heating, hot water and gas hob was around 475euro

burger1979

House was built in 2003 we are the second tenants in it roughly 150 sq/m in size.

webbs how do you keep it so low? even for that sized house i would have thought it would be higher?

slimjimmc

Many factors affect your gas usage.
The number of people in the house will influence how many rooms need to be heated and the demand for hot water.
Are meals being cooked at different times for different people?
Is the house occupied during the day?
What times does heating come on?
Do you turn on the heating just to dry clothes?

There are loads of things you can do to reduce your gas consumption, some habits might need to be broken. Most changes are little things but they all add up over the course of a year.

Cooking :

• when boiling food don't heat cold water in the saucepan, use boiling water from an electric kettle. The electric kettle is much more efficient at heating water than a gas hob.
• try to cook different foods in the same pot at the same time, eg if boiling one veg you could use a steamer pan on top to cook another veg instead of lighting another burner.
• keep grilling to a minimum, grills are extremely inefficient.

Heating :

• turn down the temp to about 18-20C. Instead of going around barefoot in your tee-shirt with the heating high, put on a few more layers and keep the heating down.
• turn off (or at least turn down) radiators in unoccupied rooms.
• don't have the heating on unnecessarily, the weather is still quite mild so you probably don't need it coming on in the mornings or early evening yet.
• turn the heating off about an hour before you go to bed, you'll be tucked up nice 'n cosy by the time the residual heat is gone.
• bump up attic insulation if you can (may not be practical as tenant but you could ask the landlord to do it or pay part)
• make sure there's an insulating jacket on the copper hot water tank and thats it's fitting properly.
• make sure the gas boiler is serviced. A heater clogged up with soot and ash will use more gas to achieve the desired temp.
• gas fireplaces are very inefficient, most of the heat goes up the chimney so avoid using if possible.

Martron

come to think of it it does sound high i reckon mine would be around the 600 to 700 euro mark.

bord gas owed us money from an estimated bill.

but the gf has ice watrer running through her vein so its on constantly on through the wintrer.

1000 seems high

10-10-20

I've a 1700sq (160sq m) foot 4 bed house, constructed in 2003.
Gas heating last year was >€950, previous year it was €800.
I improved the attic insulation and it has helped!

I've now installed a wood burning stove to heat some of the downstairs rooms rather than heat the whole downstairs.

garbanzo

Hey Burger.

Seems similar cost-wise to me. Living in a 1,500 square foot house, €88 per month comes out on direct debit to Bórd Gáis. That's before the reducations in gas costs comes in and I've also just lashed a load of extra insulation into the attic which will hopefully bring the cost down further. Gas used for central heating, hob and the shower/hot water in the morning. A new condensing gas boiler installed 18 months ago.

Though, I haven't had the heating on this Autumn since I've re-insulated the attic. Nice log fire on the go at the mo though.

burger1979

slimjimmc - there are only me and the wife in the house at the moment. we dont usually eat dinner during the week as we are out most evenings playing sports or just not there. its not occupied during the day as we are out at work, so only at the weekends are we in the house during the day. the heating comes for an hour during the evening (not lately as the weather has been too mild for it so no requirement). during the colder winter months it could be on for about 2 hours in the evening and then maybe half an hour in the morning. but you see when you have the crimbo hols during thatit can push up the usage. we dont have a gas fire but most o the points you mae we have adhered to, need to get more insulation in the attic though. i have not doubt that the construction of the house in terms of insulation in the walls is probably not up to scratch.

we are going to buy a stove on the weekend for the front room so we will probably turn off a few rads down stairs, will also turn off a few rads in the rooms that we dont use up stairs. they are already down low but might as well turn them off all together.

thanks for all the replies


burger

burger1979

Right i turned off a few rads at the weekend and watched the boiler run for an hour. it didnt switch off once in that hour. am i right in thinking that once the temp reached by the stats in the rooms the boiler should switch off and then when the temp drops a little the boiler kicks in to keep the temp up to the temp on the stat? i have 2 stats one in the living room and one in the master bedroom. there are 2 control valves in the hot press. i also turned down the temp on the boiler (set at about 50 degrees). but boiler still didnt cut off. i think this might be in part why the bills are so high. anyone any suggestions? think i shall invest in more insulation for the attic too over the next few weeks.

burger

Webbs

burger1979 wrote: »

House was built in 2003 we are the second tenants in it roughly 150 sq/m in size.

webbs how do you keep it so low? even for that sized house i would have thought it would be higher?

We have loads of attic insulation but other than that we dont do anything out of the ordinary. We have both always preferred to sling on a sweater rather than run around in a T shirt so I would say our thermostat downstairs is set at 20 in the winter. We also try and remember to not have the heating on upstairs much in the evening as we have timber first floor so let heat from downstairs heat upstairs as well then only have upstairs on for the mornings.
Oh and I stuffed bubble wrap up the chimney and this made massive difference to the amount of heat lost in the living room.
Our house just seems to be well insulated and the heating only comes on for very short times to get to temp and then seems to be off for ages. I think so far this autumn we have had the heating on for about 1-2hrs in total at the most.

burger1979

Webbs wrote: »

We have loads of attic insulation but other than that we dont do anything out of the ordinary. We have both always preferred to sling on a sweater rather than run around in a T shirt so I would say our thermostat downstairs is set at 20 in the winter. We also try and remember to not have the heating on upstairs much in the evening as we have timber first floor so let heat from downstairs heat upstairs as well then only have upstairs on for the mornings.
Oh and I stuffed bubble wrap up the chimney and this made massive difference to the amount of heat lost in the living room.
Our house just seems to be well insulated and the heating only comes on for very short times to get to temp and then seems to be off for ages. I think so far this autumn we have had the heating on for about 1-2hrs in total at the most.

yeah i would throw a jumper on too but the wife has poor blood circulation and even with jumper on a hot soup inside the tummy she can still feel cold so the heat goes on. we dont have it on for long just an hour. the stove arrived today so going to get that going and like you have a timber first floor so hopefully some of these litle changes i have made will make some difference. on the insulation in the attic was it just rolls bought in the local DIY and then lay them down in between the rafters?

Pete67

burger1979 wrote: »

Right i turned off a few rads at the weekend and watched the boiler run for an hour. it didnt switch off once in that hour. am i right in thinking that once the temp reached by the stats in the rooms the boiler should switch off and then when the temp drops a little the boiler kicks in to keep the temp up to the temp on the stat? i have 2 stats one in the living room and one in the master bedroom. there are 2 control valves in the hot press. i also turned down the temp on the boiler (set at about 50 degrees). but boiler still didnt cut off. i think this might be in part why the bills are so high. anyone any suggestions? think i shall invest in more insulation for the attic too over the next few weeks.

burger

It all depends on how the controls are wired. The boiler should shutdown the gas burner when its own internal thermostat is met, however the circulating pump will still be running. If the boiler is firing continuously (not just running pumps fans etc) then either the boiler is undersized to meet the heating demand or there is a fault in the boiler controls.

The best way to set up a zoned system (which you have) is as follows:

1) Room stat in the living room switches on a motorised valve which enables flow to the living room circuit. The valve opens, and when fully open makes a microswitch which then enables the boiler.

2) Room stat in the master bedroom switches on a motorised valve which enables flow to the bedroom circuit. The valve opens, and when fully open makes a microswitch which then enables the boiler.

3) Cylinder stat on the hot water storage cylinder switches on a motorised valve which enables flow to the heating coil. The valve opens, and when fully open makes a microswitch which then enables the boiler.

An auto bypass valve may be required to maintain some flow through the boiler when all three zone valves are closed - some boilers require a cooling time to dissipate heat after the gas burner is switched off

That way the boiler should only be enabled when heat is required for one of the two zones, or hot water is required. Best of all is to use programmable thermostats in the rooms as you can time the heating separately for living rooms and bedrooms, and even program several different temps at different times of the day. This avoids the boiler short cycling - running continuously with occasional firing of the burner just to make up losses when there is no requirement for heat.

In my experience not many installers bother to do this, not sure why as it is very easy at a construction stage to install the necessary cables. Quite often, the room stats control the zone valves but there is no link from the zone valves to the boiler. The boiler is then controlled by a separate timeswitch, so you can often end up with the boiler short cycling.

burger1979

Pete67 wrote: »

It all depends on how the controls are wired. The boiler should shutdown the gas burner when its own internal thermostat is met, however the circulating pump will still be running. If the boiler is firing continuously (not just running pumps fans etc) then either the boiler is undersized to meet the heating demand or there is a fault in the boiler controls.

The best way to set up a zoned system (which you have) is as follows:

1) Room stat in the living room switches on a motorised valve which enables flow to the living room circuit. The valve opens, and when fully open makes a microswitch which then enables the boiler.

2) Room stat in the master bedroom switches on a motorised valve which enables flow to the bedroom circuit. The valve opens, and when fully open makes a microswitch which then enables the boiler.

3) Cylinder stat on the hot water storage cylinder switches on a motorised valve which enables flow to the heating coil. The valve opens, and when fully open makes a microswitch which then enables the boiler.

An auto bypass valve may be required to maintain some flow through the boiler when all three zone valves are closed - some boilers require a cooling time to dissipate heat after the gas burner is switched off

That way the boiler should only be enabled when heat is required for one of the two zones, or hot water is required. Best of all is to use programmable thermostats in the rooms as you can time the heating separately for living rooms and bedrooms, and even program several different temps at different times of the day. This avoids the boiler short cycling - running continuously with occasional firing of the burner just to make up losses when there is no requirement for heat.

In my experience not many installers bother to do this, not sure why as it is very easy at a construction stage to install the necessary cables. Quite often, the room stats control the zone valves but there is no link from the zone valves to the boiler. The boiler is then controlled by a separate timeswitch, so you can often end up with the boiler short cycling.

Hi Pete,

points one and 2 that you state are correct but i dont have a stat for the hot water going into the water cylinder. there is pipe that comes off the top floor circuit and that feeds it. I think that there is a link from the boiler to the control valves as the power to thme only comes on when the boiler is on. there could be a fault in the boiler controls, if for example a faulty thermostat but how would i find that out? there is a temp control on the boiler itself which i have lowered and the boiler temp goes to about 55 degrees but then just stays on so with that in mind it maybe that the boiler is undersized. I have 13 rads in the house and the boiler size is 24Kw????? i think over the next week or so i'll have to get the boiler serviced and then move on from there. i also think i have a leak in the system but thats another days worries.

cheers burger

Webbs

burger1979 wrote: »

on the insulation in the attic was it just rolls bought in the local DIY and then lay them down in between the rafters?

I have 2 layers of attic insulation, one between the rafters and then another layer perpendicular to that on top.
I was looking into putting insulation in the first floor using they type that is more like polystyrene (solid as opposed to a roll) partly for thermal and partly for airborne sound insulation from downstairs and then putting down a sound insulation mat to help with impact noise before putting floorboards back, but as this would mean pulling up the floor boards and would be a big and presumably expensive job I have put it on the back burner

JamesM

The boiler may not have been serviced since 2003, so may have a build up of fluff dust etc. I would agree that the first thing to do is have it serviced.
Jim.