Buying house with other half

LegacyUser

I'm planning on buying a house with my girlfriend. She is currently unumployed so we are securing the mortgage under my name( I have a permanent job). However both of our savings will be going towards the deposit( about 15k each). Just wondering if anybody knows will we both lose our first time buyers even though I am the one taking out the mortgage?

Gyalist

tictactoe wrote: »

I'm planning on buying a house with my girlfriend. She is currently unumployed so we are securing the mortgage under my name( I have a permanent job). However both of our savings will be going towards the deposit( about 15k each). Just wondering if anybody knows will we both lose our first time buyers even though I am the one taking out the mortgage?

I can't answer as to whether you will both lose first time buyers but your plan has "DISASTER" written all over it.

Don't let love blind you to practical realities.

kenbrady

tictactoe wrote: »

I'm planning on buying a house with my girlfriend. She is currently unumployed so we are securing the mortgage under my name( I have a permanent job). However both of our savings will be going towards the deposit( about 15k each). Just wondering if anybody knows will we both lose our first time buyers even though I am the one taking out the mortgage?

This is very risky for your girlfriend as she won't be able to go on the deeds of the house. If you split up technically the house is all yours.

mood

If was her I would want my name on the deeds. She is very foolish if she goes ahead with this.

Why would you loose it if neither of you have bought before!

ash23

ok, so the mortgage is in your name alone.

Are the deeds of the house going in both names of just yours?

If the house is in joint names and the mortgage just in yours then she owns half a house and has no mortgage as far as the law is concerned. You would be screwed if it all went tits up.

If the house is in your name then she risks losing her savings if all went tits up.

My advice is that you buy the house and she pay you rent. If she gets a job down the line and you are still together then let her go on the deeds and get a joint mortgage.

As for the FTB, it depends on if her name is on the deeds. If it is then she loses her FTB status. If not, then she has no legal right to the house, is not deemed to be the owner and therefore keeps her FTB status.

krudler

You need to sit down and talk about what will happen if it all goes wrong, so many couples dont do this, have the "love will save us" attitude and when it goes tits up its a nightmare, I've seen it happen two of my friends, its not being negative, its being realistic and having a plan if you do break up what both of you expect and are entitled to, me and my girlfriend plan on doing this if we ever decide to buy, its better to have a plan for things going wrong

kittenkiller

If you go ahead as outlined above, only you will lose your 1st time buyer status.

You might think about giving a bit more money to a lawyer in order to formalize the arrangement you have with your girlfriend though.
It's very very risky.

Best of luck though.

Bearpup

Only one of you has to use your first time buyers. When myself and my o/h bought our apartment he wasn't a first time buyer so we went with Joint Mortgage - Sole title. I had to sign a declaration of trust, in the presence of a solictor to say that the even though it was sole title the property belonged to both of us. Best of luck

kenbrady

carlylong wrote: »

Only one of you has to use your first time buyers. When myself and my o/h bought our apartment he wasn't a first time buyer so we went with Joint Mortgage - Sole title. I had to sign a declaration of trust, in the presence of a solictor to say that the even though it was sole title the property belonged to both of us. Best of luck

That is fraud and tax evasion. The revenue are going to be very busy over the next 10 years chasing up all the people who cheated the system when buying a house. The money they made from off shore accounts, dirt and insurance lump sums are going to look like peanuts compared to what they will get with housing fiddles.
That decleration of trust you signed is a confession that you are breaking the law.

Bearpup

kenbrady wrote: »

That is fraud and tax evasion. The revenue are going to be very busy over the next 10 years chasing up all the people who cheated the system when buying a house. The money they made from off shore accounts, dirt and insurance lump sums are going to look like peanuts compared to what they will get with housing fiddles.
That decleration of trust you signed is a confession that you are breaking the law.

This is not fraud or tax evasion. I was perfectly entitled to use my first time buyers status.

So you think I am expected to pay stamp duty even though i havent used my first time buyers? thats ridiculous!

kenbrady

carlylong wrote: »

This is not fraud or tax evasion. I was perfectly entitled to use my first time buyers status.

So you think I am expected to pay stamp duty even though i havent used my first time buyers? thats ridiculous!

I can 100% assure you that it is fraud and tax evasion.
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/stamp-duty/leaflets/section-92b.html#section5

"The relief from stamp duty is intended to benefit only genuine first time buyers and Revenue will continue to use our audit programme to ensure that there is no abuse of the relief."
You signed a legal document to state that you willingly entered into the fraud

username123

carlylong wrote: »

This is not fraud or tax evasion. I was perfectly entitled to use my first time buyers status.

So you think I am expected to pay stamp duty even though i havent used my first time buyers? thats ridiculous!

A solicitor should not have facilitated this, it WAS fraud and tax evasion.
The revenue is very clear on this, you do not get to use your first time buyers status if you buy with someone who is not also a first time buyer - its unfair, but thats the system.

OP - the plan is a disaster, I doubt very much you will find a solicitor to facilitate this, the 15K from your girlfriend to you will be subject to gift tax also if she is not on the mortgage.

Carter12

In answer to your question. If you buy the house and the deeds and mortgage is in both your names you will lose your first time buyers grant. Happened to me

Toots

OP, if you're going to go ahead with this it would be a good idea to sit down with a solicitor and have a co-habiting contract drawn up which will state what is to happen if you split up. Myself and my OH did this when we bought our place. It's not actually legally binding, however if it did end up going to court, the judge would generally award according to this agreement, unless something really exceptional happened between the contract being drawn up and you both splitting.

Are both your names going on the deeds?

mut

If you are both going on title (the deed) you will both loose your FTB status. The bank will not give you a mortgage where one of you is liable on the mortgage but both of ye have an interest in the property, so therefore you either both have to go on title or only the one on everything. (It use to be the case that the banks would let two on title and only one on the mortgage or vice versa but that has all basically stopped).

In relation to the mortgage, the bank will ask for evidence of where you are getting the balance of funds from (need to show bank statements etc), as you are getting money from your girl friend this will create some difficulties for you if you are the only one on title. She will have to attend a different solicitor to you to get independent advice and to sign a document basically saying that she has no interest or claim in the property. As it is only €15k C.A.T doesn't come into it (gift most be over €26,060.00( plus a small gift exemption of €3k) so you won't have to pay it.

It you do decide to go ahead with everything in your name and your g-friend contributing or even if you do everything in both your names as your not married it is recommended that you sign a co ownership agreement. This will provide what is to happen if ye split, whether one buys out the other or if ye put the house on the market etc.

You will also need to think of drafting your Will especially if she isn't going on title. As ye are not married the whole CAT threshold of €26,060.00 comes into play anything over that will have a 25% rate of tax.

Hope that helps!

SheRa

Ok people have given good advice about putting both your names on the deeds, but no one seems to have mentioned anything about the fact that your girlfriend is unemployed. Surely it would be a good idea to wait until she has a job before going for a mortgage.

Also carlylong, yes if you bought on your own or with another first time buyer you would be fully entitled to use your first time buyer status, but as you bought (i.e got a joint mortgage) with your OH who is not a first time buyer you were not entitled to claim stamp duty relief on the property. Im quite amazed your solicitor let you sign any paper documenting what you did.

Anyway sorry, I know that its off topic, but its clear even from the link that kenbrady provided that this is the case and Id hate for other boardsies to get caught out like that.

Victor

Get separate legal advice and an agreement drawn up detailing what happens if there is a break-up.

iguana

kenbrady wrote: »

That is fraud and tax evasion. The revenue are going to be very busy over the next 10 years chasing up all the people who cheated the system when buying a house.

Op, you absolutely will both lose your FTB status, there is no doubt in the law about that, the legislation is very clear and there is no room for confusion. However kenbrady is slightly wrong in his phrasing.

You may get away with not paying SD in the future as carlylong has. But there is no limit on when the revenue can contact you and demand this money. 10, 20, 40 years could go by and one day you will get a bill for not only the SD due when you bought the 2nd house but every last cent in interest due.

So say you don't pay €15k in SD and 10 years pass where the interest rate has averaged at 4%, you will get a bill for over €22k. If 20 years pass at the same interest you will owe nearly €33k. If 40 years pass you will owe €72k, which will put a real dent in your retirement plans. (carlylong I seriously suggest you seek legal advice from a different solicitor and see what you can do to protect yourself).

The good news is that house prices are most likely still very over-priced, so you should both just wait. Rent for a while, keep saving and in a couple of years buy the house you ultimately want anyway so you never need to trade up.

LegacyUser

Myself and my girlfriend bought a house together 3 years ago. She already had her own house and hence everything was put in my name. This was discussed openly with the bank when we were getting a mortgage - both our savings but mortgage and house deeds in my name. Bank advised us to get our solicitor to draw up something for both of us to sign basically saying that she was contributing to the mortgage and paid X amount deposit. This was a cover for her in case anything happened - Luckily everything worked out great and we are married now.

LegacyUser

Just throwing it out there, but would the OP and his OH not be in a better position legally if he got married before doing this?

Maybe I am not 'with it' with what all the young 'uns are doing these days but it just seems like the logical step to me to get married before you take a major step like buy a house.

John Mason

OP you would be crazy to put your gf's name on the mortgage or even buy a house with her.

what if a year down the line you break up - far too messy and someone will be left a negative equity mortgage.


buy the house in your own name, with your own money. when you move into the house, make sure your gf knows she is a tenant and has no legal rights to your house and get her to sign a tenancy agreement.

i would also go to my solicitor and get this agreement drawn up - technically it is a worthless piece of paper but i can give you some leverage if you end up in court fighting about the house or the negative equity on the mortgage.

trust me, i am speaking from experience here - my ex tried to drag me through every court in the land trying to get my house from me. he paid half the mortgage for the year he lived there and apparently this gave him some legal rights to the house. he did not put money in to the deposit, his name was no where near the deeds or mortgage.

make sure you get every part of your backside covered

kenbrady

blah1234 wrote: »

Myself and my girlfriend bought a house together 3 years ago. She already had her own house and hence everything was put in my name. This was discussed openly with the bank when we were getting a mortgage - both our savings but mortgage and house deeds in my name. Bank advised us to get our solicitor to draw up something for both of us to sign basically saying that she was contributing to the mortgage and paid X amount deposit. This was a cover for her in case anything happened - Luckily everything worked out great and we are married now.

That's tax evasion and fraud again. Banks would have done anything for your business 3 years ago, hense they are in the mess now. You do know the government (revenue) owns pretty much all the banks now. They are uncovering all these dodgy developer loans with NAMA, they will be going after all the individual loans in the next few years. I know lots of people who did the same thing, they all think they have gotten away with it, you have for the moment, the reveune will be going after all these people eventually.

iguana

kenbrady wrote: »

That's tax evasion and fraud again. Banks would have done anything for your business 3 years ago, hense they are in the mess now.

Blah1234 didn't say he avoided paying SD. My understanding is that he just registered his GF's interest in the house in order to protect her so she has claim if they split up. That's not illegal.

kenbrady

blah1234 wrote: »

She already had her own house and hence everything was put in my name.

iguana wrote: »

Blah1234 didn't say he avoided paying SD. My understanding is that he just registered his GF's interest in the house in order to protect her so she has claim if they split up. That's not illegal.

Yes I'm did assume he avoided paying stamp duty.

LegacyUser

My ex had a house solely in his name. We got a mortgage together and my name was put on the deeds.
I was a FTB and we didn't pay atamp duty. The solicitor said this was because I was the only one buying it. he already owned half the house, I was buying the other half.

OP, perhaps you could buy it in your name and when your OH is working then put her name on the deeds and mortgage.

magneticimpulse

prices are still coming down, so i wouldnt rush into buying a house if you can wait. i know friends who have lost 250,000 euro just in the past year alone on their mortgage. maybe by then she will have found a job and be more financially secure. after seeing all my friends buying houses and then splitting up, i know it can go tits up. its been 3 years and 1 person came to see their house, no hope of it being sold. all my friends say, they should have got married instead before buying the house...as you can get out of a marriage easily then selling a house. if your really serious, id have both your names on everything. i mean your buying a house together, so she must be the one?? so why not share everything equal and know that you both have equal share in your lives.

LegacyUser

i am in a similar situation with my oh. he already has a house, which he cannot sell at the moment and probably not any time soon without losing alot of money. it is rented though, and in a good area for rental. We are currently looking for a house to live in together, we have rented together but now want to find a permanent home for the future. I will be a first time buyer. I was always under the impression that everyone is entitled to use their first time buyer status once and that I could buy the house in my name with him contributing and a legal document drawn up stating that the house is ours and what we do in the event of a breakup. But now reading this thread i dont want to do anything illegal! Obv we were plannning on going to a lawyer and getting legal advice and contracts drawn up but it appears other posters have been given dodgy advice by professionals? scary! So if we buy it together and we pay stamp duty, do i still get interest relief on my repayments and he doesnt or do I just not benefit in anyway from my FTB?

username123

similarsitu wrote: »

I will be a first time buyer. I was always under the impression that everyone is entitled to use their first time buyer status once and that I could buy the house in my name with him contributing and a legal document drawn up stating that the house is ours and what we do in the event of a breakup.

Nope - itd unfair but unless you are both FTBs you dont get to ue your FTB status.

similarsitu wrote: »

But now reading this thread i dont want to do anything illegal! Obv we were plannning on going to a lawyer and getting legal advice and contracts drawn up but it appears other posters have been given dodgy advice by professionals? scary!

Yes it is scary, but because revenue have closed the loophole and the crazy housing boom is no longer being fuelled its highly unlikely youd find any bank or solicitor to collude with such a scheme.

similarsitu wrote: »

So if we buy it together and we pay stamp duty, do i still get interest relief on my repayments and he doesnt or do I just not benefit in anyway from my FTB?

Youll still be eligible for the interest relief. Just not the FTB status for the stamp duty.

dudara

OK posters, enough about Stampy Duty and First Times Buyer Status. That kind of discussion belongs to the Accomodation & Property forum.

Stick to the topic at hand please.

dudara

iguana

The thing is though, that the only question the OP asked is about Stamp Duty. There is no other topic, so perhaps this really should be moved to Accommodation/Property?

tictactoe wrote: »

Just wondering if anybody knows will we both lose our first time buyers even though I am the one taking out the mortgage?

dudara

Good point. Thread moved to Accomodation & Prroperty

dudara