Pavee Point spokesman on The Last Word

WindSock

segaBOY wrote: »

Really is no need for that tbh.

There was no need to give a smarmy facepalm my op either, but hey. Ta ra luvs.

segaBOY

brianthebard wrote: »

Read it, but it was a strawman really considering work permits are given to people on the basis of nationality, not ethnicity. http://www.workpermit.com/ireland/ireland_bulgarians_romanians_htm
The point was that the vast majority here are making posts of a discriminatory nature, not a minority, and that majority would rather continue their discrimination than question whether or not they have a basis for their beliefs.

That doesn't give a breakdown whatsoever.

I'd hope that my posts were not in that group, sorry if they came across that way, I genuinly want a better society for all but I think sometimes PCness can get in the way of any worthwhile reform.

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

I'll need some credible statistics to back that claim by these unspecified "human rights activists" up.

Hey Horse, suck on this; http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR01/012/2007/en/52f9fe6e-d35c-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/eur010122007en.pdf

Is Amnesty international a big enough human right organisation for you horse?

segaBOY wrote: »

That doesn't give a breakdown whatsoever.

I'd hope that my posts were not in that group, sorry if they came across that way, I genuinly want a better society for all but I think sometimes PCness can get in the way of any worthwhile reform.

No it doesn't give a breakdown, what it does it state that work permits are given on the basis of nationality not ethnicity, so your question is invalid, as I already stated. Is that so hard to understand? Your question cannot be answered because the Irish state does not gather information of that type.

segaBOY

WindSock wrote: »

There was no need to give a smarmy facepalm my op either, but hey. Ta ra luvs.

:Facepalm:, joking

dutchcat

segaBOY wrote: »

Your comment that followed that, how you'd kick their gold teeth down their troath etc., seemed a bit keyboard warriorish.

Btw sorry if I come across as a bit of a pr**k, sorry to hear about your mother in law mate, robbing anyone-but especially the elderly is dispicable.

no worries man ,but it really boils my bloood when i think of it

segaBOY

brianthebard wrote: »

Hey Horse, suck on this; http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR01/012/2007/en/52f9fe6e-d35c-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/eur010122007en.pdf
No it doesn't give a breakdown, what it does it state that work permits are given on the basis of nationality not ethnicity, so your question is invalid, as I already stated. Is that so hard to understand? Your question cannot be answered because the Irish state does not gather information of that type.

Fair point.
Census data would give an indication, it asks employment status and etnicity.

dutchcat

KNOCK KNOCK

Dyr

brianthebard wrote: »

You need to go back to college. Do you seriously not understand that people's biases are applied to the world they view on an everyday basis, without consciously thinking about it?

So are you saying that people only think that they keep seeing roma begging or that they just fail to see all the other beggars? :pac:

Bias does not induce hallucinations

segaBOY

dutchcat wrote: »

KNOCK KNOCK

Will someone get the f'ing door already!!!! :pac:

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

So are you saying that people only think that they keep seeing roma begging or that they just fail to see all the other beggars?

Bias does not induce hallucinations

In a way it does horse. How are you enjoying the pdf from Amnesty International horse? Doesn't the fact that a massive international organisation extensively researched the experience of Roma/Gypsies in Europe and found them to be discriminated against hugely sort of **** all over your previous posts horse?

dsmythy

brianthebard wrote: »

You'd know you're a right wing reactionary alright. Is that how this game works? http://www.romasupport.ie/ suck on that. Of course they care, what a stupid statement to make. You people.

Well thank god somebody actually finally made me aware of them following my question. Wasn't that hard now was it.

They use the words refugees and asylum seekers a lot. The day we accept refugees from other EU countries is the day those same countries ought to be thrown out of the bloc.

Away from that it seems they lay on the blame game for people not doing enough to accept them. Me, I'd accept anyone who lives a crime free and good life regardless if they are Roma or otherwise.

I'm sure the majority of employers can tell the difference between the besuited Roma sitting in front of them looking for a job and the crime engaged one out on the streets. But it's awful easy to roar discrimination and throw hands in the air while asking for more and more.

If only i had the luxury to do the same.

I'm also proud of the rough political philosophy you put on me as i'm sure you are of the one i put unto you.

segaBOY

brianthebard wrote: »

In a way it does horse. How are you enjoying the pdf from Amnesty International horse? Doesn't the fact that a massive international organisation extensively researched the experience of Roma/Gypsies in Europe and found them to be discriminated against hugely sort of **** all over your previous posts horse?

Is Amnesty Internatiol unbiased by nature? Just playing devil's advocate.

segaBOY

brianthebard wrote: »

http://www.romasupport.ie/

Interesting site, thanks.

brianthebard

dsmythy wrote: »

Well thank god somebody actually finally made me aware of them following my question. Wasn't that hard now was it.

I'm also proud of the rough political philosophy you put on me as i'm sure you are of the one i put unto you.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise Google didn't allow right wing reactionaries to access their search engine. Because I'm sure there's no other reason why you were too lazy to google your query by yourself. I actually wouldn't classify myself as a socialist by the way. I do subscribe to a left wing ideology of course but I won't tell you which one. You'll have to google it.

segaBOY wrote: »

Is Amnesty Internatiol unbiased by nature? Just playing devil's advocate.

Everyone carries some bias, the question should be is their bias detrimental to their findings? So the question is what is Amnesty's bias? Well its probably to address the issue of poverty and injustice as it exists in the world. That doesn't mean its work is negated, it means it is validated.

Havermeyer

grenache wrote: »

With all due respect Zohan, when have you honestly ever seen a Roma working in this country? It doesn't happen. They dont understand the concept of 'work'. I think this is a fair statement. Thats not me being racist, thats the truth. I'm on my mobile now but shall get you details of Roma crime rates in Ireland in a while when i'm on a pc. I'm sure they will back up my original post.

In fairness, they generally don't promote themselves (and I emphasise the word 'generally' because not every single individual from a certain creed is a bad individual) as the most employable/trustworthy people around so therefore people won't employ them.

It's a vicious cycle.

Dyr

brianthebard wrote: »

Hey Horse, suck on this; http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR01/012/2007/en/52f9fe6e-d35c-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/eur010122007en.pdf

Is Amnesty international a big enough human right organisation for you horse?

I have some fishermans friends here to suck on but thanks all the same, congratulations on the use of horse without quotations though.

Given that the one time i looked into amnesty stats was on their "damning" tazer report and it was mostly bullsh*t the answer is no, they aren't good enough. They has agenda and not much integrity.

segaBOY

brianthebard wrote: »

Everyone carries some bias, the question should be is their bias detrimental to their findings? So the question is what is Amnesties bias? Well its probably to address the issue of poverty and injustice as it exists in the world. That doesn't mean its work is negated, it means it is validated.

No matter where/who Amnesty carries out a report on, are they always presuming there will be some form of discrimination?

I'm not in any way discrediting their findings, just interesting how your previous posts were so hung up on the issue of bias among people, you can apply it almost anywhere.

MadsL

You might want to read the comments left in the guestbook. So proud to live here at the moment. (irony, for the literal)

This site is such a load of happy clappy crap. I was praying for this economic downturn to come so these feckers can go off and rob and scive in some other misfortunate country. Work??? I havn't seen one of these bloodsuckers work ever. All they've done is steal my wallet, scim my friend's money from the ATM and cost every hard working person in Ireland thousands a year. I hear Romania's embaressed about them too. They make our own Travellers look positively angelic in comparison.

**** off robbing *******s....youse are gonna get badly hurt for robbing my wifes money all we had for da week we cant feed our 2 kids coz a roma robbed our money from the banklink.beware of them.

The people talking about lack of "education" in relation to people who despise Roma should wake up and cop on.The only education most people have recieved in the way of Roma is being begged from,stolen from or hearing of others that its happened to.Any teacher who wants to do research into Roma should go and live with them.I've lived in romania and the Roma are worse than rats.

Dyr

Interestingly enough that amnesty report is so far all references to individual court cases where roma were badly treated...hmmm, from what brianthebeard has taught me that's pretty unreliable. I mean you could use examples of random court cases to make it appear that gypsies are the biggest shower of thieving hoors on the planet.

I'm surprised at amnesia international for being so sloppy

segaBOY

MadsL wrote: »

You might want to read the comments left in the guestbook. So proud to live here at the moment.

You're going to get that everywhere mate, these guys will probably go out to target such sites. Idiots.

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

Given that the one time i looked into amnesty stats was on their "damning" tazer report and it was mostly bullsh*t the answer is no, they aren't good enough. They has agenda and not much integrity.

Didn't you say that just because I called something bull**** doesn't make it so a while ago horse? What's changed since then horse? I think you are the one lacking integrity.

segaBOY wrote: »

No matter where/who Amnesty carries out a report on, are they always presuming there will be some form of discrimination?

I'm not in any way discrediting their findings, just interesting how your previous posts were so hung up on the issue of bias among people, you can apply it almost anywhere.

I doubt it. If you want to find out you should do your own research tbh. I don't feel I was hung up on bias, I was trying to point out to Piste the bias in posts that she didn't see. there's a difference.

segaBOY

Bambi wrote: »

Interestingly enough that amnesty report is so far all references to individual court cases where roma were badly treated...hmmm, from what brianthebeard has taught me that's pretty unreliable. I mean you could use examples of random court cases to make it appear that gypsies are the biggest shower of thieving hoors on the planet.

I'm surprised at amnesia international for being so sloppy

Oh that's true. Bias?

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

Interestingly enough that amnesty report is so far all references to individual court cases where roma were badly treated...hmmm, from what brianthebard has taught me that's pretty unreliable.

Don't remember ever commenting on individual court cases horse, but I think you probably already know that rulings at the European Court of Human Rights are not quite the same as circuit court rulings. Another example of your lack of integrity more than anything else horse. Did you not get as far as the part about the European Commision against Racism publishing a report horse? its sort of more than just an individual court case horse.

dsmythy

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't realise Google didn't allow right wing reactionaries to access their search engine. Because I'm sure there's no other reason why you were too lazy to google your query by yourself. I actually wouldn't classify myself as a socialist by the way. I do subscribe to a left wing ideology of course but I won't tell you which one. You'll have to google it.

Apparently we aren't allowed anymore. Discrimination i call!

Me and you will just never agree on what's best for people in general and that expands to certain groups of people too bar a major swing by one of us. I had my swing long ago from the 'left' to the 'right' so i think i might be all out.

This expands to everyone on this thread, away from real racists, who are the opposite of you in views on this issue. All it's turned into is getting one over another. The issue is being lost in the fog. What happened to solving the Roma issue rather than sticking it to people?

brianthebard

dsmythy wrote: »

Apparently we aren't allowed anymore. Discrimination i call!

Me and you will just never agree on what's best for people in general and that expands to certain groups of people too bar a major swing by one of us. I had my swing long ago from the 'left' to the 'right' so i think i might be all out.

This expands to everyone on this thread, away from real racists, who are the opposite of you in views on this issue. All it's turned into is getting one over another. The issue is being lost in the fog. What happened to solving the Roma issue rather than sticking it to people?

People who sincerely believe in something don't make swings from one ideology or principle to another.
I don't feel like I'm trying to get one over, I've provided links and evidence to prove discrimination against Romani people occurs on a regular, European wide basis, that there is a support group for Roma in Ireland, that there is a historical precedent for this discrimination, and that with a little government inventiveness marginalised minorities can be brought inside the pale. I'm not trying to get one over someone for the sake of it, I'm trying to illustrate the ignorance of some posters so that people reading this thread won't think you people are the only voice on this issue.

tallaght01

amacachi wrote: »

Is there anything the Gardaí can actually do about beggars? In the 5 weeks I've been at college every day on O'Connell St. I've seen the same 4-6 Roma girls (hope that's not racist) passing babies around then hassling people for cash, the same Irish lad for 4 weeks straight hassling people, a woman on the bridge with a baby in the pissing rain and not forgetting the classic woman who in the last 4 weeks has told me 3 times she's just been in hospital for a miscarriage, each time she has a different accent and each time she needs money for a different place where she lives. It's amazing.
Sorry for ranting off, I just assumed the cops couldn't do anything about beggars, though perhaps I should've thought it was more a case of not bothering.

I thought there was a law about begging introduced in ireland, but I could be wrong.

What they can do, though, is report the kids to social services.

We do know there's a lot of Roma begging. We do know there's a good few con artists within the community. But they aren't just born bad. We need to look at the root causes, which are going to be the same as the root causes of most other crime, poverty and social isolation.

But....in the middle of all this are little children who are too young to even know what a Roma is. They're out begging every day. That is just not right. I'm not a big fa of the gardai, and our social services are overworked. But for jesus' sake, these kids are sitting out there on the cold streets for all to see in the run-in to winter. It cannot be too difficult to get them out of that environment.

BUt the only answer long term is to work with the community and help them out of poverty. You can be pretty sure they don't want that life. Ask your average Roma 6 year old what he wants to do when he grows up, and he won't say "a beggar".

Dyr

brianthebard wrote: »

Don't remember ever commenting on individual court cases horse, but I think you probably already know that rulings at the European Court of Human Rights are not quite the same as circuit court rulings. Another example of your lack of integrity more than anything else horse. Did you not get as far as the part about the European Commision against Racism publishing a report horse? its sort of more than just an individual court case horse.

I said you comment on court cases now?

Nah I gave up, I dont consider press clippings to be a valid basis to draw conclusions about who's "probably" the most discriminated ethnic group in europe. We can't subject serious matters like this to methods which may be influenced by bias.

although a quick search finds three instances of "european court of human rights" all relating to individual cases and one of the "european commission against racism" and i'll bet pounds to the pence that Euro commsih on racism publishes reports on every european country regularly so thats hardly jim garrison territory

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

I said you comment on court cases now?

Nah I gave up, I dont consider press clippings to be a valid basis to draw conclusions about who's "probably" the most discriminated ethnic group in europe. We can't subject serious matters like this to methods which may be influenced by bias.

although a quick search finds three instances of "european court of human rights" all relating to individual cases and one of the "european commission against racism" and i'll bet pounds to the pence that Euro commsih on racism publishes reports on every european country regularly so thats hardly jim garrison territory

yeah you did horse, or at least that I taught you about them which I didn't. Your nit picking on the report it pretty pitiful at this stage though, you're grasping at straws and no more. I didn't post any links to press clippings, but fair enough if you want to be a hypocrite you stand by it horse.

Dyr

brianthebard wrote: »

Didn't you say that just because I called something bull**** doesn't make it so a while ago horse? What's changed since then horse? I think you are the one lacking integrity.

Amnesty kindly supplied the actual data in an appendix, their statistics are bullsh*t when you look at the coroners cause of death for each case. That makes it so

anonymous_joe

Part of the problem is that no-one seems to help these people.

This is after all a debate started by a woman who was committing robberies who'd been married off at the age of thirteen. That's awful. Social services, etc, are failing these people badly. Especially back in Romania and Bulgaria where most Roma are from iirc.

segaBOY

tallaght01 wrote: »

I thought there was a law about begging introduced in ireland, but I could be wrong.

What they can do, though, is report the kids to social services.

We do know there's a lot of Rome begging. We do know there's a goo few con artists within the community. But they aren't just born bad. We need to look at the root causes, which are going to be the same as the root causes of most other crime, poverty and social isolation.

But....in the middle of all this are little children who are too young to even know what a Roma is. They're out begging every day. That is just not right. I'm not a big fa of the gardai, and our social services are overworked. But for jesus' sake, these kids are sitting out there on the cold streets for all to see in the run-in to winter. It cannot be too difficult to get them out of that environment.

BUt the only answer long term is to work with the community and help them out of poverty. You can be pretty sure they don't want that life. Ask your average Roma 6 year old what he wants to do when he grows up, and he won't say "a beggar".

How exactly would you propose to bring them out of poverty?

The rescued children were taken into care, but the BBC's This World programme discovered two of the boys had gone back to the streets of Milan, and were stealing again. Even this huge police operation had not saved them from a life of crime.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8226580.stm

It's just plain sad when you see this happening. Help is given but lost somewhere along the line. Just so annoying that even help given didn't work in the long run.

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

Amnesty kindly supplied the actual data in an appendix, their statistics are bullsh*t when you look at the coroners cause of death for each case. That makes it so

Riiiight horse. cause you say the stats are bull**** they're bull****? more of the same hypocrisy tbh.

tallaght01

Bambi wrote: »

Amnesty kindly supplied the actual data in an appendix, their statistics are bullsh*t when you look at the coroners cause of death for each case. That makes it so

I haven't read the stats you're talking about, and I don't know if you're being tongue in cheek :P

But you're right in that most stats of this type are crap. People in AH take a "report" as being gospel too often.

It has taken people dedicated to researching Roma lifestyles years to be even able to make contact with them, so they'll talk to them. Notoriously difficult, and any stats really need to be read with a cynical eye.

There was even a good article about the Roma in The Lancet a few years back. They included figures for Irish travellers in their Roma figures! And the Lancet would be in the top 5 medical journals in the world. So, be careful what you believe. With regard to Roma, if you haven't read a report from back to front, you may as well not post it. Newspaper articles are even more worthless.

anonymous_joe

segaBOY wrote: »

How exactly would you propose to bring them out of poverty?

Education?

Endeavour to avoid them being societally alienated from an early age?

dsmythy

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Education?

Endeavour to avoid them being societally alienated from an early age?

Which takes us to their parents/guardians. Where to next?

syklops

I think its time for a standard AH generalisation...

Roma chicks are Hawwt!!!

No really they are! Dark skin, lovely facial features, the right bits in the right places, not too round, not to thin, Perfect!

Nothing wrong with them genes!

That aside, the basic fact is, the Roma are a displaced people, like blacks were in America after slavery was abolished. Like Native Americans were after Neo Americans forced them off their lands, and like in many ways to Palestinians, Basks and Aboriginees, They were (basically) expelled from their land and told go elsewhere!
After WW2 there were millions of displaced Jews, and to accommodate them a jewish state was created, and just over 70 years later, the state thrives. Perhaps if any one country, body or institution endeavoured to understand their plight and try to rectify it, the situation might improve. I can't see the EU doing it, and I honestly dont think Obama will have enough time during his presidency to get to it, but until someone starts dealing with it on an international basis, the problem will continue.

Someone, be it the UN, EU, US, or even the People's Republic of China, needs to give these people somewhere to live. Somewhere that is their own. I am quite sure that many Roma you see on the streets would prefer a roof over their heads which was their own, a job which benefited not just them selves, but their own people, and a national identity to be proud of, rather than kipping next to the liffey stealing from old women.

On a side note, every one keeps saying they never see a Roma with a job. When I lived in Swords, there were loads of Roma who sold Roses to people going in and out of pubs and clubs. Am I the only one who saw them, or is it a case of "Well I meant a real job"?

segaBOY

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Education?

Endeavour to avoid them being societally alienated from an early age?

Interesting you say that. Would you aim a programme particularly at the Roma or just use mainstream education and hope they'll integrate on that basis?

anonymous_joe

dsmythy wrote: »

Which takes us to their parents/guardians. Where to next?

It's a tough one. Perhaps offer grants that require 'em to go to school or something? Might take a generation or two, but it might work...

segaBOY

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's a tough one. Perhaps offer grants that require 'em to go to school or something? Might take a generation or two, but it might work...

Hmm, so pay them to send their kids to school? I think there is a system in Germany like that, if a particular group of students is in danger of dropping out give them a few bob to stay on.

Could work, the fear I have is if you decide to adjust courses for their needs you untimately alienate them from the rest of Irish students, if you put them in mainstream they may not flurish and underperform due to the system built for the majority.

Dyr

brianthebard wrote: »

yeah you did horse, or at least that I taught you about them which I didn't. Your nit picking on the report it pretty pitiful at this stage though, you're grasping at straws and no more. I didn't post any links to press clippings, but fair enough if you want to be a hypocrite you stand by it horse.

Is this nit picking as pitiful as a claim that begging gypsies are actually bias induced hallucinations? because that would make it rather pitiful.

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

Is this nit picking as pitiful as a claim that begging gypsies are actually bias induced hallucinations? because that would make it rather pitiful.

No such claim was made. You must have hallucinated. I hear that happens you people all the time.

segaBOY

Brian and bambi, I mean no offence lads but when ye guys getting the divorce? :P

dsmythy

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's a tough one. Perhaps offer grants that require 'em to go to school or something? Might take a generation or two, but it might work...

segaBOY wrote: »

Hmm, so pay them to send their kids to school? I think there is a system in Germany like that, if a particular group of students is in danger of dropping out give them a few bob to stay on.

Could work, the fear I have is if you decide to adjust courses for their needs you untimately alienate them from the rest of Irish students, if you put them in mainstream they may not flurish and underperform due to the system built for the majority.

Thing is are we talking about them who wish to settle? It's a completely different narrative to those who wish to live a more nomadic life for obvious reasons.

tallaght01

start with not allowing them to marry 13 year old girls while making them give up school.

Decent housing, so they can do some schoolwork.

Financial support so they don't have to spend their days begging when they should be at school.

Grants and scholarships, so the bright ones go to school while their parents aren't struggling for the money to pay for it.

Social services interventions for the kids who are sent out to beg.

Access to healthcare, so their life expectancy isn't so low (once the parents die, or are incapacitated with illness, the kids are often forced into begging and prostitution).

Access to birth control education, so they're not just getting pregnant over and over again, with kids they can't afford to support (bear in mind that males are the boss. If they want sex and there's no money for condoms, then the wife still has to have sex).

These are not new ideas. They've been used for lots of marginalised groups, and have worked well there's been some effort put in.

But it will be a long long term solution. But there's no will for it, as the population at large will never lobby the government to look after the Roma.

Dyr

brianthebard wrote: »

Riiiight horse. cause you say the stats are bull**** they're bull****? .

yep

http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/search?q=amnesty

segaBOY

tallaght01 wrote: »

start with not allowing them to marry 13 year old girls while making them give up school.

Decent housing, so they can do some schoolwork.

Financial support so they don't have to spend their days begging when they should be at school.

Grants and scholarships, so the bright ones go to school while their parents aren't struggling for the money to pay for it.

Social services interventions for the kids who are sent out to beg.

Access to healthcare, so their life expectancy isn't so low (once the parents die, or are incapacitated with illness, the kids are often forced into begging and prostitution).

Access to birth control education, so they're not just getting pregnant over and over again, with kids they can't afford to support (bear in mind that males are the boss. If they want sex and there's no money for condoms, then the wife still has to have sex).

These are not new ideas. They've been used for lots of marginalised groups, and have worked well there's been some effort put in.

But it will be a long long term solution. But there's no will for it, as the population at large will never lobby the government to look after the Roma.

And our education budget would stretch this far with our current deficit?

I like your point about sexual health, I remember coming across this report about a year or so back, thought it was pretty shocking at the time tbh.

http://ijsa.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/13/3/184

brianthebard

Bambi wrote: »

yep

http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/search?q=amnesty

I'm sorry I think you made a mistake, that doesn't link to anything pertaining to Roma people at all.

anonymous_joe

segaBOY wrote: »

Hmm, so pay them to send their kids to school? I think there is a system in Germany like that, if a particular group of students is in danger of dropping out give them a few bob to stay on.

Could work, the fear I have is if you decide to adjust courses for their needs you untimately alienate them from the rest of Irish students, if you put them in mainstream they may not flurish and underperform due to the system built for the majority.

Well it's better than what happens right now.

dsmythy wrote: »

Thing is are we talking about them who wish to settle? It's a completely different narrative to those who wish to live a more nomadic life for obvious reasons.

Being a pickpocket or paid to go to school?

tallaght01 wrote: »

start with not allowing them to marry 13 year old girls while making them give up school.

Decent housing, so they can do some schoolwork.

Financial support so they don't have to spend their days begging when they should be at school.

Grants and scholarships, so the bright ones go to school while their parents aren't struggling for the money to pay for it.

Social services interventions for the kids who are sent out to beg.

Access to healthcare, so their life expectancy isn't so low (once the parents die, or are incapacitated with illness, the kids are often forced into begging and prostitution).

Access to birth control education, so they're not just getting pregnant over and over again, with kids they can't afford to support (bear in mind that males are the boss. If they want sex and there's no money for condoms, then the wife still has to have sex).

These are not new ideas. They've been used for lots of marginalised groups, and have worked well there's been some effort put in.

But it will be a long long term solution. But there's no will for it, as the population at large will never lobby the government to look after the Roma.

Accurate enough. Especially the 'it'll never happen.'

Not many Irish people like Travellers, let alone a group of people who are not only similar to travellers but also foreign. Every Romanian I've ever heard on the issue despises them, and that seems nigh on universal.

Dyr

segaBOY wrote: »

Brian and bambi, I mean no offence lads but when ye guys getting the divorce? :P

I though the other lad was already divorced from reality tbh, imaginary beggers etc.

segaBOY

Bambi wrote: »

I though the other lad was already divorced from reality tbh, imaginary beggers etc.

Save it for the family law court ffs