Fulham v Liverpool Match Thread 3pm Sat (Read mod note in OP)

mormank

PHB wrote: »

Look, I can accept Torres coulda been injured, but Benayoun certainly wasn't. There is absolutely no other way of viewing that substitution. None.

perhaps if torres hadnt started i might agree with you about his love for the CL but im sorry i will go back to my other point, he simply has to win at lyon, not so much here. i understand that the substitutions today were with a view to lyon but so what really?? it is a far more important game than todays and if we lose then we can concentrate on the league and win the europa league!!!:eek:

rotinaj

That_Guy wrote: »

Birmingham it seems to be.

Should be able to bounce back so... or maybe not








All over..........RAFA OUT;)

That_Guy

Benitez looks absolutely shellshocked. Severe pressure now.

Hank Scorpio

feel sorry looking at benitez, a clearly shaken figure

That_Guy

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Look, today is awful, but thats a bit of a retarded post. We finished 4 points off top last year.

The past means nothing. It's what happens in the present that counts. And nothing has happened so far for Liverpool. FACT.

Duiske

What the hell is Benitez thinking about ? Todays he's shown utter ontempt for Liverpool fans who actually believe that the Premiership title is worth fighting for. Enough is enough !! This loss is entirely down to him, and I can't really see his way of thinking changeing. Its time he went.

Dave!

"Resurgent Liverpool Capitulate at Craven Cottage"



Oh lawdy....... Can't wait for MOTD.....

kaimera

wow, wasn't expecting that.

bit of an epic fail tbh

spockety

Horrid result. But to echo the travelling kop, "you'll never walk alone". That goes to rafa and all the players who came in to cover for all the first teamers out with injury or the flu virus.

Boggles

Dare_2_defy wrote: »

All over, Nobody could have predicted that score

Well I was close enough.

Boggles wrote: »

Fulham 2-1.

Duff, Zamora

Kuyt

bUILDERtHEbOB

Rafa out again is it?

Liverpool FC - The best fans in the world.

Jesus Wept

I'm a Liverpool fan, however I found the level of absolute fail today so epic that it amused me in a strange way, what a way to go out. :pac:

kenon

kenon wrote: »

Painful to watch liverpool win. They deserved it, they worked and pressed harder than I have seen them do this season.

I take solace in the fact that liverpool wont play like that against the little guys and will throw away these 3 points.

I posted that after they bet United last week. I'm not gloating btw.

This is just what Liverpool do. Now they will hang all there hopes on the champions league.

Keep Rafa at Pool.

Mr Alan

****ing shocking

People talking about sacking Rafa.....please tell me what top manager would come in, have to sell to buy, and be willing to deal with our owners?

answer, none.

so **** off.

expect both cards to be rescinded, Carra clearly got the ball & fair play to Bobby, he even seemed to say to the ref that he got the ball.

First half performance was alright, bringing Babel on at 1-1 was a leap of faith by Rafa & it didn't pay off.

bollox day at the office.

Bobalicious93

kenon wrote: »

Keep Rafa at Pool.

KRAP

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

First half performance was alright, bringing Babel on at 1-1 was a leap of faith by Rafa & it didn't pay off.

lolz, it wasn't a leap of faith Al, twas a shíté managerial decision.

randomname

Mr Alan wrote: »

expect both cards to be rescinded, Carra clearly got the ball & fair play to Bobby, he even seemed to say to the ref that he got the ball.

Yeah and holding two arms around him and pulling on Zamora meant he should have stayed on? Give me a break. Correct decision.

whatawaster

Duiske wrote: »

What the hell is Benitez thinking about ? Todays he's shown utter ontempt for Liverpool fans who actually believe that the Premiership title is worth fighting for. Enough is enough !! This loss is entirely down to him, and I can't really see his way of thinking changeing. Its time he went.

ah now here.
Benayoun off was ridiculous.
But i think the fact we're missing Gerrard, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Aquilani and Riera has to be taken into consideration.
Not to mention one dodgy sending off and Carra's idiocy.
You can't blame him for those things.

Maybe he will go, maybe he'll be pushed.
But i'd say there's about a one in ten chance we'd replace him with someone good enough to win us the league with our resources (i'm being very generous with those odds too) and a very very good chance a replacement would be a flop.

Why don't we just bring the deeds to the club to Vegas and bet it all on Red 19. Because that's what you're suggesting.

Reginald P. DuM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Look, today is awful, but thats a bit of a retarded post. We finished 4 points off top last year.

And your happy with being 4 points off top. I suppose if they were 1 point off you'd be delirious altogether!! Where I come from it's first place that counts. My post is far from retarded.

I know choosing a replacement would be a difficult matter, but in all seriousness how much more proof do you need that he's not the man for LFC. I'm not just talking about today's game, he's a proven record of baffling team selection and tactical decisions. He's spent a load of money to very little effect.

If ya wanna have a discussion on it by all means but don't embarass yourself by hurling insults at me when you can't think of anything intelligent yo say.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

lolz, it wasn't a leap of faith Al, twas a shíté managerial decision.

in hindsight, twas.

hopefully we wont be seeing babel in that position again.

Sizzler

Is there any Israeli lipreaders out there who picked up what Benayoun said after he saw his number come up for substitution for some unproven guy from the reserves :eek: Mind boggling stuff from Bentitez.

Is that now 6 defeats & 1 win from 7 games in all comps

Chucky the tree

That_Guy wrote: »

The past means nothing. It's what happens in the present that counts. And nothing has happened so far for Liverpool. FACT.

Okay so what trophies have United and chelsea won this season?

daithijjj

6 defeats in 7?, at what point do we start to question the boss?

Ordinarily i would have said, yea, he must have had a word with torres and benny before the game and said i might save the two of you for the midweek game..........but..........the two lads looked completely shocked at what was going on. You dont need to be hercule poirot to figure out hes a very cold character who cant talk to his players on a man to man basis.

At what point does the manager deserve to be seriously questioned?

Its 6 in 7 now? .....out of the league and cl before xmas (likely>possibility at thyis stage)?.

You cant ride the cl wave for this long, it will be a new decade shortly.

whatawaster

that benayoun substitution was a joke.
how the f&ck did voronin play 90 minutes

That_Guy

Mr Alan wrote: »

****ing shocking

People talking about sacking Rafa.....please tell me what top manager would come in, have to sell to buy, and be willing to deal with our owners?

answer, none.

so **** off.

Agree with you on this. Who else is there tbh?

expect both cards to be rescinded, Carra clearly got the ball & fair play to Bobby, he even seemed to say to the ref that he got the ball.

Carragher was the last man though. Degen's red card I'd say will be rescinded though I reckon.

First half performance was alright, bringing Babel on at 1-1 was a leap of faith by Rafa & it didn't pay off.

bollox day at the office.

First half you were very good yeah but questionable though as to why Voronin played the entire match. I know you've a CL match this week but Torres is always a goal threat. Moreso than Voronin.

Tusky

Couple of points.

Could understand Torres being taken off as he hasnt completely recovered from his injury. But taking Yossi off is the type of mind bendingingly frustrating decision that prevents me from every having 100% faith in Benitez. If anyone was going to get us back into the game it was him. Tactically, it doesnt make sense. If he has an eye on the champions league, then shame on him. Also dont understand playing Yossi out wide when he is far more effective through the middle.

The red card for Degen was shocking. He definitely didnt deserve it.

Carragher deserved his red. Caught on the wrong side of the player for the 100th time this season, and does his usual rugby tackle/sliding challenge. Lucky that its his first red this season, he has been awful.

Awful second half performance, awful result. Even the optimist in me reckons the title challenge is over. Only positive to take from the game is Torres goal, which was absolutely fantastic.

Mr Alan

daithijjj-who would you want to replace him?

nothing wrong with questioning the manager at all, talking about writing off 4 years brilliant work on the basis of 6 games is ridiculous though.

dannydiamond

We've certainly sorted out all those draws from last season.

ParkRunner

daithijjj wrote: »

Its 6 in 7 now? .....out of the league and cl before xmas (likely>possibility at thyis stage)?.

You cant ride the cl wave for this long, it will be a new decade shortly.

Dont forget the Carling Cup

That_Guy

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Okay so what trophies have United and chelsea won this season?

None but in terms of results thus far they're superior over Liverpool and it's evident.

Mr.Nice Guy

Can't believe Benitez took Torres off with the game still in the balance! Talk about a decision backfiring. Just undid all the work from last weekend.

Five league defeats and we're still in October. Extremely unlikely that Liverpool can maintain a title challenge all the way through the season now, particularly with Gerrard out and the squad being what it is.

rossie1977

fulham making a habit of beating top 4 teams by two clear goals with 9 men, fulham beat man utd 2-0 at craven cottage last season with scholes and rooney both seeing red, bit of deja vu it seems

MementoMori

Tusky wrote: »

Couple of points.

Could understand Torres being taken off as he hasnt completely recovered from his injury. But taking Yossi off is the type of mind bendingingly frustrating decision that prevents me from every having 100% faith in Benitez. If anyone was going to get us back into the game it was him. Tactically, it doesnt make sense. If he has an eye on the champions league, then shame on him. Also dont understand playing Yossi out wide when he is far more effective through the middle.

The red card for Degen was shocking. He definitely didnt deserve it.

Carragher deserved his red. Caught on the wrong side of the player for the 100th time this season, and does his usual rugby tackle/sliding challenge. Lucky that its his first red this season, he has been awful.

Awful second half performance, awful result. Even the optimist in me reckons the title challenge is over. Only positive to take from the game is Torres goal, which was absolutely fantastic.

Pretty much agree with all of this exactly:(

Stargate

Dave! wrote: »

"Resurgent Liverpool Capitulate at Craven Cottage"



Oh lawdy....... Can't wait for MOTD.....

awwwwwwww Dave , it hurts enough already man

bUILDERtHEbOB

Are the rumors about half our squad being ravaged by swine flu true?

Apparently that's why the likes of Agger and Skrtel were out.

rafa is still the man for our club.

Some of the fickleness on here is halarious tbh.

We were decimated with injuries today, someone put our injures XI up earlier(Mike I think), and it was better than the starting XI today!

Torres is back from an injury ffs, I think the Liverpool medical team know more than sone of the experts on here.

Terrible result today but we have a chance to make amends v Brum next week.

YNWA

daithijjj

Mr Alan wrote: »

daithijjj-who would you want to replace him?

nothing wrong with questioning the manager at all, talking about writing off 4 years brilliant work on the basis of 6 games is ridiculous though.

You are asking me a question there al that you really just want to scowl at my answer if i did actually pick somebody. We had this discussion in the thread you started and it just kinda inevitably goes off topic into areas such as spending etc.

I mean in your post before this you say hopefully babel wont be seen playing there again, please dont turn babel into the scapegoat. He came on for our best player and the boss takes benny off too. Look, fulham were missing murphy and johnson aswel. 6 defeats in 7 deserves to be a stage for a liverpool fan to perhaps discuss the position of the boss, this is all im saying.

Mr Alan

so discuss it, who would be a more proven manager, who has to sell to buy & is willing to work with our owners?

goddevil

Mr Alan wrote: »

daithijjj-who would you want to replace him?

nothing wrong with questioning the manager at all, talking about writing off 4 years brilliant work on the basis of 6 games is ridiculous though.

If Rafa has done a brilliant job as you say, Liverpool wouldn't be seeing the likes of Voronin and Kyrgiokos playing 90 mins. Benitez must take full responsibility for the state that the squard is in and the present run of results which is down to the lack of bench strength

bUILDERtHEbOB

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

Are the rumors about half our squad being ravaged by swine flu true?

Apparently that's why the likes of Agger and Skrtel were out.

That news is about 5 hours old. Do you really think he would have had 5 reserves on the bench and Voronin playing the 90 otherwise?

goddevil

goddevil wrote: »

If Rafa has done a brilliant work as you say, Liverpool wouldn't be seeing the likes of Voronin and Kyrgiokos playing 90 mins. Benitez must take full responsibility for the state that the squard is in and the present ruun of results which is down to the lack of bench strength

who would you have played instead of those 2 players ??

Xavi6

Folks, if you want to discuss the future of Rafa then the match thread isn't the place to do it.

Cheers

bUILDERtHEbOB

rarnes1 wrote: »

That news is about 5 hours old. Do you really think he would have had 5 reserves on the bench and Voronin playing the 90 otherwise?

I have no idea I had my own match today and was out all morning/afternoon until now.

Mr Alan

goddevil wrote: »

If Rafa has done a brilliant job as you say, Liverpool wouldn't be seeing the likes of Voronin and Kyrgiokos playing 90 mins. Benitez must take full responsibility for the state that the squard is in and the present run of results which is down to the lack of bench strength

is Rafa to blame for swine flu too?

i believe Voronin & Kyrgiokos are typical of the larger problem at our club, ccombined cost of 1.5m.

injuries currently (incl le swine flu);

aquilani
gerrard
ngog
skrtel
agger
riera
johnson

Liverpools sick/injured 11

---

Cavalieri
Johnson-Skrtel-Agger-Aurelio
El Zhar-Aquilani-Gerrard--Riera

---

Ngog

and the line up today

---

Reina,
Degen, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Insua
Kuyt, Mascherano, Lucas, Benayoun

---

Voronin, Torres.

Subs: Gulacsi, Babel, Spearing, Plessis, Dossena, Eccleston, Ayala.

~Rebel~

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

And your happy with being 4 points off top. I suppose if they were 1 point off you'd be delirious altogether!! Where I come from it's first place that counts. My post is far from retarded.

I know choosing a replacement would be a difficult matter, but in all seriousness how much more proof do you need that he's not the man for LFC. I'm not just talking about today's game, he's a proven record of baffling team selection and tactical decisions. He's spent a load of money to very little effect.

If ya wanna have a discussion on it by all means but don't embarass yourself by hurling insults at me when you can't think of anything intelligent yo say.

I didnt insult you, I insulted your post. You said Rafa had been on the crest of a wave by winning the champions league in 05, but had done nothing since and not built a decent team. I pointed out we were a hairs breath away from winning the league last season.

I'm not going to go into spending with you, because its been done to death on here, but just go look at the net spend figures for the past few years. When we were in a position to kick on and really challenge, he was denied the funding to do so. With the same resources as it looks like he'll be getting for the foreseeable future, I would not be surprised to see us slip into top 6 rather then top 4 under all but the very tip top of managers. And i dont think theres a top level manager out there who would touch us with a barge pole, and even if they did, i couldn't see them doing any better then Rafa already has been.

I get the impression that just because its Liverpool, you feel that they should be challenging regardless what money is there - thats not reality, thats fantasy. The fact expectations have been able to remain high over the past few seasons is solely down to Rafa, and while today taking off Yossi was insane, over the course of his years at LFC he has done a fuking top job.

<edit> apologies xavi, was writing the post when you put up your warning, thats the last ill say on it here.

Mr Alan

if Rafa left, he'd walk into one of the top jobs in world football, probabaly Real Madrid.

we'd replace him with Klinsmann or Southgate most likely.....says it all really.

I watched it with a Liverpool fan who had never heard of 4 of our subs

Jayob10

We will not win the Championship with this man. But I think we cannot be expected to win a championship given the the dealings of our owners. We have an adequate manager and idiotic owners.

Rafa continues to shoot himself in the foot with suspect signings and an overly tactical approach to premiership games. And he 100% deserves to be questioned.

Liverpool fans need to ask themselves a question though, what would a new manager do for us? We are not competitive in the transfer market when it comes to getting the top players. We need a manager who is effective at getting the best out of second tier players. And Rafa is certainly not able to do this.

His signings are pretty poor no matter what anybody says. One cannot dispute he has been hit and miss. Also one has to question whether or not he has got the maximum out of players one would consider to be not good enough for the club...... The resounding answer to that question is no.

I think the good managers just allow good players to play. You pick your best 11 available and back them to beat who is put in front of them. This constant shuffling of team selection based on who we are playing is crazy in the league and will get us nowhere. I hand it to Benitez that he is an excellent tactician and this has been established in turning over some far better teams in europe on occasions. But this over scientific approach in the league is costing us.

Most of the dross on the field at the end have been signed by Rafa. In fact all of it. He now has his own coaches, scouts and methods 100% implemented following the clear out of staff in the summer. So there can be no more excuses.

I love liverpool and have defended him and criticised him in the past and have been met with the usual "in Rafa we trust". Well I can tell ya that REAL fans are beginning to run out of trust, and very quickly.

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

Folks, if you want to discuss the future of Rafa then the match thread isn't the place to do it.

Cheers

Please take note of the above before posting as it seems to have been ignored.