Fulham v Liverpool Match Thread 3pm Sat (Read mod note in OP)

MementoMori

The injured eleven being posted is only ten players.

There were eleven players injured/sick - Martin Kelly being the one missing from the formation.

mormank

That_Guy wrote: »

The past means nothing. It's what happens in the present that counts. And nothing has happened so far for Liverpool. FACT.

so if man utd were to go on a 6 game losing streak whilst having several key players injured and getting a bad bounce of the ball you would ask for sir alex ferguson to be fired?? really?? wow, that is fickle!

btw what a terrible post on so many levels! the past means nothing..lol!

Quandary

Awful result for the pool. I feel sorry for Benitez in a way because he can only work with what he has but christ he doesnt do himself any favors with his ludicrous substitutions...

ntlbell

mormank wrote: »

so if man utd were to go on a 6 game losing streak whilst having several key players injured and getting a bad bounce of the ball you would ask for sir alex ferguson to be fired?? really?? wow, that is fickle!

btw what a terrible post on so many levels! the past means nothing..lol!

What has having critical players got to do with his poor descion making today?

when looking at the starting 11 today and compare that to the comments of most liverpool fans in various threads who bar voronin they all seem very happy with and claim they're great players and good enough to be playing in the red shirt.

so if that's the case the starting 11 shouldn't be a big issue, surley the issue here is the mistakes he made AFTER that, e.g. taken off benny etc

what has his awful decision making _today_ during _this_ game got to do with swine flu or injured players?

lets face it one of the biggest critiques of rafa from users of this forum and various pundits is his constant bizzare subs are people making this up? is this not a reality? is this not what happened today?

if so why are people constantly referring to the injury list? did the owners make the calls today on the subs? position of players?

does no liverpool fan put the responibily of THOSE choices (not the result) in the hands of rafa?

should he be sacked because of them? I'd say no, if he continues to make awful choices like he has done continually, most definitley.

and the cries of "who's better" is just laughable.

The problem is not who's better it's more where the hell will they get the cash to pay him off and bring in someone else.

Sully

mormank wrote: »

so if man utd were to go on a 6 game losing streak whilst having several key players injured and getting a bad bounce of the ball you would ask for sir alex ferguson to be fired?? really?? wow, that is fickle!

btw what a terrible post on so many levels! the past means nothing..lol!

Had the same problem last year though, plus with the general decision making people are calling for his head. Just see it from that POV maybe? But as said already - not the thread for discussing Rafa future/problems/issues so ill keep mute on that, just wanted to point out a possible reason.

Didn't see the game but I heard about Rafa's substitution. I think there was little choice but to take him off but I was a little curious seeing as it was said he was in pain during training - is he really in the right condition to be playing? With Gerrard a long doubt - do Pool really need to risk Torres?

audismelly

PaulieC wrote: »

God above what do you say to that!! I'd definately be trying Skrtel & Agger together for a few games because as much as I love Carra, he's been poor this season so far

I think agger would have to prove his fitness before we can rely on him. He pushed for a new big contract and hasnt delivered on it as yet. Turner would have been ideal except for those yanks:mad:

Mr Alan

Rafa Benitez is ****e at substitutions?

old article, but although i didn't agree with Rafas substitution of Yossi today, generally he makes the right changes.

WHAT constitutes a master tactician? The ability to make changes to the pattern of a match with influential substitutions is clearly one criterion.

And in Rafael Benitez, Liverpool possess the best Anfield has ever seen.

Ryan Babel’s goalscoring impact against Manchester United last Saturday was the 50th occasion Benitez has brought on a player who has scored.

Even given the increased number of substitutions in modern football, that’s a remarkable record.

To give that stat even greater resonance, on 12 separate occasions Benitez has made substitutions which have led to two or more goals – many from losing positions.

Cynics might suggest that the Reds boss sent out the wrong team in the first place. But I prefer the argument that there aren’t many better coaches in Europe at analysing the flow of a match and making the necessary switches which work.

Remember Olympiakos? Steven Gerrard’s late piledriver is the obvious memory, but without goals from supersubs Mellor and Pongolle that match-winner might have been meaningless.

Then there’s Kewell and Alonso scoring against Charlton to salvage a 2-2 draw, Crouch and Warnock against Fulham, Garcia and Cisse saving a draw at Birmingham, then Alonso and Biscan turning a 2-0 deficit at Fulham into a 4-2 win.

And none of them were even Benitez’s greatest switch.

Arguably the Reds’ manager’s most valuable intervention was the introduction of a player who didn’t score at all – not until a penalty shoot-out anyway.

Vladimir Smicer might have come on and scored in Istanbul, but it was Dietmar Hamann’s half-time introduction which swung the match back Liverpool’s way.

It’s just as easy to make a damaging switch as it is to introduce an effective change – as Sir Alf Ramsey discovered in Mexico, Howard Kendall at Wembley in 1986 and Gerard Houllier in Leverkusen.

But Benitez has, so far, managed to avoid that pitfall.

Even his controversial withdrawal of Steven Gerrard at Goodison Park for showing “too much passion” paid off.

The use of an impact substitute was a tactic whose effectiveness grew only stealthily.

It was first allowed in England in 1965, but only for injuries. Tactical switches were later allowed in 1967, increased to two changes 20 years later then, in 1995, increased to the current limit of three.

Predictably the influence of Anfield substitutes has grown with the times.

Bill Shankly made just 18 scoring switches in nine years, the last – in 1974 – resulting in a last-minute winner from Peter Cormack against Norwich.

Bob Paisley doubled that figure in eight years, but then he could call on the greatest Supersub of them all, David Fairclough, who scored 18 goals after stepping off the bench.

Joe Fagan did it three times, Dalglish 21, Souness 10 and Roy Evans 12, before the folly of a joint management team was exposed.

While Evans and Gerard Houllier argued amongst themselves about which subs to bring on, only Karl-Heinz Rieldle stepped off the bench to score during their joint stewardship.

Left to his own devices, Houllier introduced 40 scoring subs in five years, but that figure has already been eclipsed by Benitez in four years.

The Reds boss may have his faults, but the effective use of substitutes is not one of them.

ntlbell

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa Benitez is ****e at substitutions?

old article, but although i didn't agree with Rafas substitution of Yossi today, generally he makes the right changes.

oh that article ends that conversation.

I'll retract my post. :rolleyes:

audismelly

audismelly wrote: »

I think agger would have to prove his fitness before we can rely on him. He pushed for a new big contract and hasnt delivered on it as yet. Turner would have been ideal except for those yanks:mad:

Isn't he out with Swine flu? Hardly his fault

That_Guy

mormank wrote: »

so if man utd were to go on a 6 game losing streak whilst having several key players injured and getting a bad bounce of the ball you would ask for sir alex ferguson to be fired?? really?? wow, that is fickle!

btw what a terrible post on so many levels! the past means nothing..lol!

Well I don't support Man United so I personally wouldn't be calling for Alex Ferguson's head. It's just the tactics by Rafa today which were questionable. Taking off Torres after 60 mins when the game was 1-1 was confusing.

Injuries and flu or whatever aren't Rafa's fault and I never said otherwise.
I do think that Rafa is the right man for the job but he got it completely wrong today.

As for the past doens't mean anything, I apologise. Of course it means something but it just seems that CL is his priority and has always seemed to be.

audismelly

rarnes1 wrote: »

Isn't he out with Swine flu? Hardly his fault

Today yes. I think if you look at the appearances agger has made last season and this season you will understand im not talking about 1 fixture.:rolleyes:

Mr Alan

Agger has been quite consitantly crocked for the last year.

Handsome Bob

ntlbell, let's play a hypothetical game here;

Say John O'Shea was injured.

Say you had two arguable first choice defenders out like Johnny Evans and Rio Ferdinand.

Say you had Wayne Rooney out.

Say you had to substitute Berbatov after 50 minutes.

Finally, let's say all these important players have been either missing individually or as a unit over the last six games, do you think Man U wouldn't struggle? Don't bother replying, I know what your reply will be, and it won't be the truth. What's new with you eh?

Mr Alan

LZ5by5 wrote: »

ntlbell, let's play a hypothetical game here;

Say John O'Shea was injured.

Say you had two arguable first choice defenders out like Johnny Evans and Rio Ferdinand.

Say you had Wayne Rooney out.

Say you had to substitute Berbatov after 50 minutes.

Finally, let's say all these important players have been either missing individually or as a unit over the last six games, do you think Man U wouldn't struggle? Don't bother replying, I know what your reply will be, and it won't be the truth. What's new with you eh?

thats also excl the likes of Aurelio (giggs?),Ngog (owen?), Riera (park?) Aquilani (scholes?fletcher?)

herbieflowers

Bad result for Liverpool but tbf they haven't had the best of luck with injuries. Degen's s/o was a little harsh, too. Craven Cottage isn't the easiset place to go either, with or without a lengthy injury list (Man U last season, Chelsea a few seasons before lost there iirc) and Fulham on their day are a very good football side.

Still wouldn't write off Liverpool, much to early for that. Each defeat seems to diminish their chances of winning the league, but who knows?

Liam O

LZ5by5 wrote: »

ntlbell, let's play a hypothetical game here;

Say John O'Shea was injured.

Say you had two arguable first choice defenders out like Johnny Evans and Rio Ferdinand.

Say you had Wayne Rooney out.

Say you had to substitute Berbatov after 50 minutes.

Finally, let's say all these important players have been either missing individually or as a unit over the last six games, do you think Man U wouldn't struggle? Don't bother replying, I know what your reply will be, and it won't be the truth. What's new with you eh?

well, let's see. Today, Neville, Vidic, Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs,Fletcher were all missing, we still had capable players in their position. We have been missing Rooney recently.

If O'Shea is out we have Rafael/Fabio/Brown. If Ferdinand and Evans are out we have Vidic,Brown and probably De Laet could do a shift. Without Rooney and Berba there is still Owen, Welbeck and Macheda. I could go through every position and there is adequate cover capable of beating mid-table Prem teams. Same for Chelsea. Liverpool's squad is lacking quality backup, it's abundantly clear and was exposed in the match today when those reserve players had to come on

LuckyLloyd

lol, awesome thread. Liverpool have run ridiculously badly with injuries and in game incidents so far this season. It is just funny at this stage tbh.

if Rafa left, he'd walk into one of the top jobs in world football, probabaly Real Madrid.

we'd replace him with Klinsmann or Southgate most likely.....says it all really.

The truth. Won't stop the droolers from typing "RAFA OUT" all the same.

Handsome Bob

Liam O wrote: »

well, let's see. Today, Neville, Vidic, Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs,Fletcher were all missing, we still had capable players in their position. We have been missing Rooney recently.

If O'Shea is out we have Rafael/Fabio/Brown. If Ferdinand and Evans are out we have Vidic,Brown and probably De Laet could do a shift. Without Rooney and Berba there is still Owen, Welbeck and Macheda. I could go through every position and there is adequate cover capable of beating mid-table Prem teams. Same for Chelsea. Liverpool's squad is lacking quality backup, it's abundantly clear and was exposed in the match today when those reserve players had to come on

Do you honestly believe that if BOTH Rooney and Berba were out that these guys could replace them EXACTLY like for like. That is the height of arrogance to me.

Nalz

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that if BOTH Rooney and Berba were out that these guys could replace them EXACTLY like for like. That is the height of arrogance to me.

Ah is it arrogance? Just one small point cas this is a match thread....If United were to play 4-3-3 with Owen up front, I dont think Welbeck or Macheda would make the team at all. And it still would be stronger than what Liverpool would have to offer in that situation. Only my opinion.

It's hardly ideal by a long shot, but Liverpool realistically only have one decent front man (the best around if not the one of the best) and I dont believe they have the money to bring another one to the club. Something has to be done at Anfield after this result. Some sort of change. No more "yes eh no eh yes we are good team no we need to work hard yes eh no" bla bla press conferences, time for some change.

Question is, what is that change? The signs are not just a result of what happened today at Fulham

Boggles

Thought Torres summed it up today, look of shock on his face when been subbed was priceless.

Not only did Rafa make a silly substitution he rallied the Fulham team who took great confidence in seeing the spanish striker leaving the pitch.

Rafa was pissíng sweat come the final whistle, wouldn't be surprised to see him gone before the end of next week,

Can't wait to hear Ronnie W this eve.

~Rebel~

Whelan?! wtf like, giving out about the team and the bench, what does he want, Rafa to put the big name players like Agger Skrtel Gerrard and Aquilani on the bench cause it looks nicer even if they cant play?! There was plenty to criticise today, why pick something that was actually outside their control? does this man do even the barest bit of research or actually even know anything about the current situation at the club he used to play for and gets paid to comment about?!

CivilServant

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Fourth would be an achievement.

Battling for 4th with spurs and city... oh dear. Do people honestly think winning the CL will keep pool fans happy.

CivilServant

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Whelan?! wtf like, giving out about the team and the bench, what does he want, Rafa to put the big name players like Agger Skrtel Gerrard and Aquilani on the bench cause it looks nicer even if they cant play?! There was plenty to criticise today, why pick something that was actually outside their control? does this man do even the barest bit of research or actually even know anything about the current situation at the club he used to play for and gets paid to comment about?!

Actually his point was after 5 years in charge, assembling that kind of squad quality is pretty poor, injuries notwithstanding. The gap between the squad based players and top players is too far and mostly relying on 3 torres/gerrard and benayoun.

~Rebel~

CivilServant wrote: »

Actually his point was after 5 years in charge, assembling that kind of squad quality is pretty poor, injuries notwithstanding. The gap between the squad based players and top players is too far and mostly relying on 3 torres/gerrard and benayoun.

your own point is valid, but i dont think that was his point at all when he spoke after the Liverpool match. He didnt mention the assembled squad as the problem, he was using the bench as an example of "Rafa not caring about the league, focusing on the CL midweek", which we know is not true. The subbing of Yossi would have been valid in this respect, youths being on the bench when noone else is available is not. In reality, a lot of those starting would have been on the bench while better payers unavailable today would have started.

He didnt mention injuries, he didnt mention illness, not once. The others briefly mentioned Gerrard was not available. He gave out about Degen starting today, not about his ability as a player, but that he should not have been starting today. There was obviously no choice with both 1st and 2nd choice RB's in Johnson and Kelly injured. IMO it came across as terribly uninformed for a professional analyst, not for the first time on his part.

LuckyLloyd

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Whelan?! wtf like, giving out about the team and the bench, what does he want, Rafa to put the big name players like Agger Skrtel Gerrard and Aquilani on the bench cause it looks nicer even if they cant play?! There was plenty to criticise today, why pick something that was actually outside their control? does this man do even the barest bit of research or actually even know anything about the current situation at the club he used to play for and gets paid to comment about?!

lol, of course not!! Whelan is a low point in a sea of mediocrity.

K-9

~Rebel~ wrote: »

He didnt mention injuries, he didnt mention illness, not once. The others briefly mentioned Gerrard was not available. He gave out about Degen starting today, not about his ability as a player, but that he should not have been starting today. There was obviously no choice with both 1st and 2nd choice RB's in Johnson and Kelly injured. IMO it came across as terribly uninformed for a professional analyst, not for the first time on his part.

I thought the exact same thing when he mentioned Degen and Kyriakos. We can hardly blame Rafa for having to pick 3rd and 4th choice players.

He's right about Voronin though! Taking Torres, Benayoun and Kuyt off makes no sense when the squad is that weakened by injuries and illness.

bUILDERtHEbOB

CivilServant wrote: »

Battling for 4th with spurs and city... oh dear. Do people honestly think winning the CL will keep pool fans happy.

Yeah man, I'd be pure depressed if we won the Champions League.

d22ontour

K-9 wrote: »

I thought the exact same thing when he mentioned Degen and Kyriakos. We can hardly blame Rafa for having to pick 3rd and 4th choice players.

He's right about Voronin though! Taking Torres, Benayoun and Kuyt off makes no sense when the squad is that weakened by injuries and illness.

Seriously, using injuries as an excuse for the 5th defeat of the season is kinda pathetic at this point.The starting 11 wasn't exactly understrength now was it ? Every club has to deal with injuries and get on with it.

:rolleyes:

K-9

d22ontour wrote: »

Seriously, using injuries as an excuse for the 5th defeat of the season is kinda pathetic at this point.The starting 11 wasn't exactly understrength now was it ? Every club has to deal with injuries and get on with it.

:rolleyes:

Yes it was under strength. :rolleyes:

Take a look at the team, squad and injuries posted here in the first few pages.

d22ontour

K-9 wrote: »

Yes it was under strength. :rolleyes:

Take a look at the team, squad and injuries posted here in the first few pages.

* 25 Reina
* 16 Kyrgiakos
* 22 Insua
* 23 Carragher red card
* 27 Degen red card
* 15 Benayoun (Eccleston 78)
* 20 Mascherano
* 21 Lucas
* 09 Torres (Babel 63)
* 10 Voronin
* 18 Kuyt (Ayala 85)

Whats so weak about that ?

8 of them could be starting any game and are only really missing Gerrard and a centre half.

:rolleyes:

K-9

d22ontour wrote: »

* 25 Reina
* 16 Kyrgiakos
* 22 Insua
* 23 Carragher red card
* 27 Degen red card
* 15 Benayoun (Eccleston 78)
* 20 Mascherano
* 21 Lucas
* 09 Torres (Babel 63)
* 10 Voronin
* 18 Kuyt (Ayala 85)

Whats so weak about that ?

8 of them could be starting any game and are only really missing Gerrard and a centre half.

:rolleyes:

Which makes me wonder why he took of probably the 2 best players. I can understand Kuyt, think we had 9 players then, so putting on a centre half who played in pre season games and I think Carling Cup, makes sense.

It's a decent team, however 2 big changes like that in a defence that is already shakey tells more that just looking at the team sheet.

Midfield was grand and played decent enough in the first half. Gerard and Aquillani and Reira can hardly be blamed when we are without them regularly now, it seems!

Still confused why he started and kept Voronin on.

K-9

PS. The above explains why Ayala, Ecclestone and Plessis where on the bench Ronnie!

d22ontour

K-9 wrote: »

Which makes me wonder why he took of probably the 2 best players.

Torres is injured and has scored 2 goals whilst injured such is his qualitybut can't play 90 mins so his sub isn't questionable.If he gets lumped and hurt and misses another stretch then it will be,he seems to be injury prone for a goal scroing freak

K-9 wrote: »

It's a decent team, however 2 big changes like that in a defence that is already shakey tells more that just looking at the team sheet.

You have 6/7 players in front of the defence to win games and they have not produced isn't fair to put blame on the defence no ?

K-9 wrote: »

Midfield was grand and played decent enough in the first half. Gerard and Aquillani and Reira can hardly be blamed when we are without them regularly now, it seems!

Gerrard doesn't play midfield,Aquaman hasn't played in the premier league this season yet,Riera has been replaced by a right footed forward on the left wing says a lot about him tbh.

K-9 wrote: »

Still confused why he started and kept Voronin on.

No belief in Babel maybe ?

Guy:Incognito

Only seeing it on MOTD now.

Insua very poor marking for the first 2 goals, his men were free for both.

Picking up for the 3rd was poor in the middle too. There was only one runner, being 2 men down is no excuse for not picking him up.

Both reds were harsh, Zamora never claimed anything for Carras tackle and said he got the ball.

Got the usual (bad) chuckle at Voronin. He's really quite poor.

Benny comign off is a strange one alright.

Nalz

....and Hansen "I think Rafa has to leave"

jank

Alarm bells now ringing for Liverpool. Never mind the weakend team, his substitutions at key moments in the game handed that game to Fulham. 6 defeats out of 7. Something seriously wrong at Anfield. I don't see them winning in france especially that Gerrard is out for the next few weeks.

I think going out of the CL could be the final straw for the Americans. I think the bigger concern is the lack of squad depth and dropping out of the top 4. Going out of the top 4 would be a disaster for the club given its money troubles are pretty much still there.

spockety

Trilla wrote: »

....and Hansen "I think Rafa has to leave"

Did he really say that? In the context you intended to portray? :eek: very suprising.

K-9

d22ontour wrote: »

Torres is injured and has scored 2 goals whilst injured such is his qualitybut can't play 90 mins so his sub isn't questionable.If he gets lumped and hurt and misses another stretch then it will be,he seems to be injury prone for a goal scroing freak




You have 6/7 players in front of the defence to win games and they have not produced isn't fair to put blame on the defence no ?



Gerrard doesn't play midfield,Aquaman hasn't played in the premier league this season yet,Riera has been replaced by a right footed forward on the left wing says a lot about him tbh.

No belief in Babel maybe ?

I'm not disputing your points. In a way we are saying the same thing! I agree with Torres and keeping an eye on the Lyon game.

Rafa obviously felt it was the right thing to do, he felt replacing him with a player that quoting yourself:

d22ontour wrote:

No belief in Babel maybe ?

was better.

On the 6/7 other players, YEP. Still, we had Carragher who is looking increasingly like he has seen better days (absolute legend btw) with Kyrgiakos and Degen who hasn't worked out, even Rafa admitted that in his interview last week. There is only so much the midfield can do!

Aquaman not playing! Think I pointed that out in my own posts.

Gerard does play midfield when needed! If he was playing today he may well have dropped back if needs be!

On Babel, fair enough, but why have faith in Voronin for 90 minutes?

Anyway, I think we are debating small points here.

Stekelly wrote: »

Only seeing it on MOTD now.

Insua very poor marking for the first 2 goals, his men were free for both.

Picking up for the 3rd was poor in the middle too. There was only one runner, being 2 men down is no excuse for not picking him up.

Both reds were harsh, Zamora never claimed anything for Carras tackle and said he got the ball.

Got the usual (bad) chuckle at Voronin. He's really quite poor.

Benny comign off is a strange one alright.

Insua seems to be suffering lately. He's learning his trade and it doesn't help we'v very few options there.

adox

Trilla wrote: »

....and Hansen "I think Rafa has to leave"

I didn't hear him say anything like that?

~Rebel~

d22ontour wrote: »

Seriously, using injuries as an excuse for the 5th defeat of the season is kinda pathetic at this point.The starting 11 wasn't exactly understrength now was it ? Every club has to deal with injuries and get on with it.

:rolleyes:

they were mentioned in relation to Whelen saying that Rafa was purposefully choosing Degen and Kygiacos in order to put the CL as priority, which is patently not the case, Rafa simply didn't have a choice. Your comment comes in completely out of context

mike65

I didn't hear that said! Trilla do you need to wash yours ears out?

d22ontour

~Rebel~ wrote: »

they were mentioned in relation to Whelen saying that Rafa was purposefully choosing Degen and Kygiacos in order to put the CL as priotity, which is patently not the case, Rafa simply didn't have a choice. Your comment comes in completely out of context

Out of context ? Hardly.Look at the last 3 pages of this thread to see why.

Champions league is a priority anyway.You realise how much money your club generates from it ? Fail to get out of the group is what, 20/30m lost from making the quarters/semis ? Fail to qualify for it next season in your current financial predictiment will be substantial.

K-9

~Rebel~ wrote: »

they were mentioned in relation to Whelen saying that Rafa was purposefully choosing Degen and Kygiacos in order to put the CL as priority, which is patently not the case, Rafa simply didn't have a choice. Your comment comes in completely out of context

Exactly. Rafa might have put that back 4 out in a Carling Cup game, probably not even then!

K-9

d22ontour wrote: »

Out of context ? Hardly.Look at the last 3 pages of this thread to see why.

Champions league is a priority anyway.You realise how much money your club generates from it ? Fail to get out of the group is what, 20/30m lost from making the quarters/semis ? Fail to qualify for it next season in your current financial predictiment will be substantial.

I think he weighed that up with todays result and I'd agree with him on that. Qualifying is crucial to our budget.

Whatever about doubts about Rafa in the Premiership, very few can doubt him in Europe. Time will tell!

Still Voronin!

~Rebel~

d22ontour wrote: »

Out of context ? Hardly.Look at the last 3 pages of this thread to see why.

?!? I said that whelen was making a ridiculous argument against Rafa by giving out about starting Degen saying this was a sign the CL was priority. Regardless whether CL is the priority or not, Degen started for the sole reason that he is the only fit RB at the club.

K-9 quoted me and agreed that Ronnie's argument made no sense in relation to the starting of Kyrgiacos and Degen, as injuries forced them to start.

You then came in saying;

d22ontour wrote: »

Seriously, using injuries as an excuse for the 5th defeat of the season is kinda pathetic at this point

As I said, this is out of context of what we were talking about. Neither of us was using injuries as an excuse for defeat, we were pointing out that Ronnie was in fact wrong in his allegation that Rafa actively decided to start two weaker players rather then being forced to.

Maybe you misquoted or something, but the discussion you came into was not about the topic your comment was in relation to.



On the topic that you were speaking about, no, injuries were absolutely no excuse for todays performance, the 11 on the pitch should have been able to do a better job, but the big disappointment for me was Rafa's decision to take off both Yossi and Kuyt. Torres im not worried about, as Rafa said after the game he simply wasn't fit enough and still has a problem which will take at least 4 days rest to be able to even think about playing again. Rafa said he could either use him from the start for an hour today, or bring him on from the bench.

Nalz

mike65 wrote: »

I didn't hear that said! Trilla do you need to wash yours ears out?

No I don't.

He did say it. I'll have any money with you he did. Why would I say he did otherwise?

Nalz

adox wrote: »

I didn't hear him say anything like that?

Afair it was something like "I cant see anything other than Benetiz having to leave". Not the direct quote by any means, he didnt imply he wanted him to leave, he meant thats what he think most likely will happen. Thats the way I picked it up the meaning anyways

K-9

~Rebel~ wrote: »

?!? I said that whelen was making a ridiculous argument against Rafa by giving out about starting Degen saying this was a sign the CL was priority. Regardless whether CL is the priority or not, Degen started for the sole reason that he is the only fit RB at the club.

K-9 quoted me and agreed that Ronnie's argument made no sense in relation to the starting of Kyrgiacos and Degen, as injuries forced them to start.

You then came in saying;


As I said, this is out of context of what we were talking about. Neither of us was using injuries as an excuse for defeat, we were pointing out that Ronnie was in fact wrong in his allegation that Rafa actively decided to start two weaker players rather then being forced to.

Maybe you misquoted or something, but the discussion you came into was not about the topic your comment was in relation to.



On the topic that you were speaking about, no, injuries were absolutely no excuse for todays performance, the 11 on the pitch should have been able to do a better job, but the big disappointment for me was Rafa's decision to take off both Yossi and Kuyt. Torres im not worried about, as Rafa said after the game he simply wasn't fit enough and still has a problem which will take at least 4 days rest to be able to even think about playing again. Rafa said he could either use him from the start for an hour today, or bring him on from the bench.

Kuyt was understandable and probably a given. Degen and Carragher where both of.

Torres, well I presume he got medical advice.

Benny makes no sense. Ecclestone FFS!

d22ontour

~Rebel~ wrote: »

?!? I said that whelen was making a ridiculous argument against Rafa by giving out about starting Degen saying this was a sign the CL was priority.

I don't remember responding to this notion ?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Regardless whether CL is the priority or not, Degen started for the sole reason that he is the only fit RB at the club.

This makes sense, he started because the squad past maybe 14 players is weak , no ?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

K-9 quoted me and agreed that Ronnie's argument made no sense in relation to the starting of Kyrgiacos and Degen, as injuries forced them to start.

Who honestly cares what Ronnie has to say ? My point was the whining about injuries not what a pathetic pundit had to say ...

~Rebel~ wrote: »

we were pointing out that Ronnie was in fact wrong in his allegation that Rafa actively decided to start two weaker players rather then being forced to.

I don't remember arguing or disputing this fact but in reality you need the champions league money.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Maybe you misquoted or something, but the discussion you came into was not about the topic your comment was in relation to.

Maybe i quoted a post regarding injuries not involving what a pundit made of the changes ?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

On the topic that you were speaking about, no, injuries were absolutely no excuse for todays performance, the 11 on the pitch should have been able to do a better job, but the big disappointment for me was Rafa's decision to take off both Yossi and Kuyt. Torres im not worried about, as Rafa said after the game he simply wasn't fit enough and still has a problem which will take at least 4 days rest to be able to even think about playing again. Rafa said he could either use him from the start for an hour today, or bring him on from the bench.

This i agree with to an extent but the fact still remains that you are banking on yore club depending on 13/14 players in this era which is fail considering how many players you have went through in the last 5 years.

It's a squad game now and has been for many a year, Rafa must take the blame on not having a sufficient 18 players to win trophies, no ?

DM_7

Trilla wrote: »

Afair it was something like "I cant see anything other than Benetiz having to leave". Not the direct quote by any means, he didnt imply he wanted him to leave, he meant thats what he think most likely will happen. Thats the way I picked it up the meaning anyways

He said "I'm afraid It's got to a stage where Rafa has no option but to leave him out", speaking about Insua.