Fulham v Liverpool Match Thread 3pm Sat (Read mod note in OP)

anplaya

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Next.

you know exactly what i mean.

Handsome Bob

anplaya wrote: »

you know exactly what i mean.

Your spiel is nothing that hasn't been said before and nothing that hasn't been covered already in this thread.

anplaya

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Your spiel is nothing that hasn't been said before and nothing that hasn't been covered already in this thread.

no **** sherlock.really?thanks for informing me of that little fact,ya super little liverpool fan you.good boy.just because i agree with someone ya dont agree with ,theres no need to get up on your high horse.ya have your opinion and your entitled to that

Gelio

anplaya wrote: »

no **** sherlock.really?thanks for informing me of that little fact,ya super little liverpool fan you.good boy.just because i agree with someone ya dont agree with ,theres no need to get up on your high horse.ya have your opinion and your entitled to tha

Deep breath

Guy:Incognito

jank wrote: »

Just saw the Cara sending off or should I say rugby tackle. His dip in form reminds me of the way Sol Campbell ending his Arsenal career. His pace seems to have gone, a bit like Rio as well actually!

Strange that Zamora didnt htink there was anything wrong with it and said he got the ball.



Carra never had pace, and was never the type of player to take the ball and beat 3 or 4 men (he has had some great moments on the right wing in the last couple of years though).

I said this last week or the week before. The major issue is not Carra. He is not confident in whats around him, with good reason .He has to do more than he should which is why he seems to be making more mistakes. Any of you economics students will know all about the law of diminishing returns, the more he has to do, the less it works out. Nobody can get everythign right. Hyypia had Carra doing his running around and covering for him as he got slow and old. Carra hasnt got anyone because he's still the one covering the rest of the defence. Skrtel hasnt been great when he's there , Agger hasnt been defensivly good either. Insua is ball watching and marking really badly. Carra is the leader in the defence and is feeling that he has to cover everything , or at least try. It's just not possible to do it all the time, especially as he gets older. He needs a really good solid defender with his to take up the slack.

Having Insua and Johnson effectivly as wingbacks is leaving the defence too exposed (thats the type of players they are rather than rafa playign them like that though) .

Mitch Connor

Stekelly wrote: »

Strange that Zamora didnt htink there was anything wrong with it and said he got the ball.

From what I have seen of the incident, Carragher did get the ball, but only because he was dragging out of Zamora first. If he hadn't been fouling Zamora, he would not have got the ball.

Guy:Incognito

Mitch Connor wrote: »

From what I have seen of the incident, Carragher did get the ball, but only because he was dragging out of Zamora first. If he hadn't been fouling Zamora, he would not have got the ball.

Zamora claimed nothing. He didnt think he was fouled. From what I could see, his only input was to tell Carra he got the ball.

Mitch Connor

Stekelly wrote: »

Zamora claimed nothing. He didnt think he was fouled. From what I could see, his only input was to tell Carra he got the ball.

Show where i said anything about what Zamora said?

Also, i don't care what he said. You know, players can be wrong too.

Guy:Incognito

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Show where i said anything about what Zamora said?

Also, i don't care what he said. You know, players can be wrong too.

I never said you did. There are 2 people on the pitch that know better than the ref whether a tackle is a foul or not. Thats the players involved. If neither of them think its a foul then it's a good bet it isnt.

Mitch Connor

Stekelly wrote: »

I never said you did. There are 2 people on the pitch that know better than the ref whether a tackle is a foul or not. Thats the players involved. If neither of them think its a foul then it's a good bet it isnt.

Oh - so Carra is one of the two people that know it was a foul or not. Right, i guess we should make the refs ask the tackler if it was a foul or not before he gives a free. That would be a great addition to the rules.

Carragher was clearly dragging out of Zamora BEFORE he got the ball. Whether Zamora felt it was a foul or not is not important. The ref thought it was, it certainly looked to be one, and refs speaking on the incident since then, who have looked at the replays, say the same. Carragher only got the ball by fouling Zamora in the first place. Foul, last man, red card.

ntlbell

Stekelly wrote: »

Zamora claimed nothing. He didnt think he was fouled. From what I could see, his only input was to tell Carra he got the ball.

Do we know why the ref sent him off?

I thought it was because he was dragging out zamora like a rag doll.

he did get the ball tho.

still should have went zamora is not the ref.

ntlbell

Stekelly wrote: »

I never said you did. There are 2 people on the pitch that know better than the ref whether a tackle is a foul or not. Thats the players involved. If neither of them think its a foul then it's a good bet it isnt.

so are you suggesting we let the players decide what is and what isn't a foul?

really?

Guy:Incognito

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Oh - so Carra is one of the two people that know it was a foul or not. Right, i guess we should make the refs ask the tackler if it was a foul or not before he gives a free. That would be a great addition to the rules.

Carragher was clearly dragging out of Zamora BEFORE he got the ball. Whether Zamora felt it was a foul or not is not important. The ref thought it was, it certainly looked to be one, and refs speaking on the incident since then, who have looked at the replays, say the same. Carragher only got the ball by fouling Zamora in the first place. Foul, last man, red card.

I'm saying the ref was wrong. Players running like that are pulling at each other. It's not basketball ffs. Zamora knew he lost the ball fair and square because he's a footballer and he knows the game. The ref saw the players runnign and then Carra went in, Zamora went down. He automaticly moves to, "that's a foul and a card".

Refs can be wrong you know and I'd imagine when an appeal goes in, I'll be proved right.

Guy:Incognito

ntlbell wrote: »

so are you suggesting we let the players decide what is and what isn't a foul?

really?

Yes , thats exactly what I said. :rolleyes:

Are you finding some hidden meaning in my post that I didnt put in? Take what I wrote literally.

Often the best way to judge an incident is by watching the players reaction. Or at the very least the ref should be taking it into consideration. This is supposed to be a ref at the top of his game. His experience should let him see these things and judge them better. He should be aware of his own limitations and flaws.

Boggles

Stekelly wrote: »

Yes , thats exactly what I said. :rolleyes:

Are you finding some hidden meaning in my post that I didnt put in? Take what I wrote literally.

Often the best way to judge an incident is by watching the players reaction. Or at the very least the ref should be taking it into consideration. This is supposed to be a ref at the top of his game. His experience should let him see these things and judge them better. He should be aware of his own limitations and flaws.

When he explained it to Zamora you can clearly see the player agreeing with him.

SantryRed

Just seen the Carragher sending off there. It is a foul, although he got the ball, the only reason he got the ball was because he was dragging out of Zamora. Definite foul, definitely last man, definite red card. He should of gone earlier on in that game too.

givyjoe81

Stekelly wrote: »

Having Insua and Johnson effectivly as wingbacks is leaving the defence too exposed (thats the type of players they are rather than rafa playign them like that though) .

Someone seriously needs to assasinate Insua.. Holy f**k why does he keep just letting attackers run off him! Happened against Chelsea for the Anelka goal where the little clown just says 'nah couldnt be bothered tracking that guy', either that or he has literally no defensive brain. Every time he does this and it results in a goal there was only one goal threat, who was his responsibility, yet for some reason he just doesnt see the danger. Although Kyrgiakos (spelt right?!) did see him behind himself, still think it was Insua's responsibility. Has played a huge part in a ridiculous amount of goals conceded.

ntlbell

Stekelly wrote: »

Yes , thats exactly what I said. :rolleyes:

Are you finding some hidden meaning in my post that I didnt put in? Take what I wrote literally.

Often the best way to judge an incident is by watching the players reaction. Or at the very least the ref should be taking it into consideration. This is supposed to be a ref at the top of his game. His experience should let him see these things and judge them better. He should be aware of his own limitations and flaws.

Well i'll try it again, do we know what the card was for?

zam obviously assumed it was for the tackle (where he won the ball)

so zam goes "he won the ball"

super, but if he sent him off for dragging out of him WHICH WE ALL SAW.

then it's irrelevant what zam said/did/reacted

and if it's for the dragging out him, then he won't have much to appeal will he?

Quandary

Carra was shown up again for his ever growing lack of pace, caught wrong side of the striker for the 3rd time in 2 games - and all 3 were sending off offences imo.

gosplan

Boggles wrote: »

When he explained it to Zamora you can clearly see the player agreeing with him.

ntlbell wrote: »

Well i'll try it again, do we know what the card was for?

zam obviously assumed it was for the tackle (where he won the ball)

so zam goes "he won the ball"

super, but if he sent him off for dragging out of him WHICH WE ALL SAW.

then it's irrelevant what zam said/did/reacted

and if it's for the dragging out him, then he won't have much to appeal will he?

LOL, twist the knife boys. :rolleyes:

mormank

That_Guy wrote: »

Well I don't support Man United so I personally wouldn't be calling for Alex Ferguson's head. It's just the tactics by Rafa today which were questionable. Taking off Torres after 60 mins when the game was 1-1 was confusing.

Injuries and flu or whatever aren't Rafa's fault and I never said otherwise.
I do think that Rafa is the right man for the job but he got it completely wrong today.

As for the past doens't mean anything, I apologise. Of course it means something but it just seems that CL is his priority and has always seemed to be.

well im glad you at least retracted your history means nothing comment. in turn i will add my voice to the disgruntled group at the yossi substitution however i am not a world class manager so i will leave it at that, unhappy about the withdrawel but not critical of it.

mormank

ntlbell wrote: »

What has having critical players got to do with his poor descion making today?

when looking at the starting 11 today and compare that to the comments of most liverpool fans in various threads who bar voronin they all seem very happy with and claim they're great players and good enough to be playing in the red shirt.

so if that's the case the starting 11 shouldn't be a big issue, surley the issue here is the mistakes he made AFTER that, e.g. taken off benny etc

what has his awful decision making _today_ during _this_ game got to do with swine flu or injured players?

lets face it one of the biggest critiques of rafa from users of this forum and various pundits is his constant bizzare subs are people making this up? is this not a reality? is this not what happened today?

if so why are people constantly referring to the injury list? did the owners make the calls today on the subs? position of players?

does no liverpool fan put the responibily of THOSE choices (not the result) in the hands of rafa?

should he be sacked because of them? I'd say no, if he continues to make awful choices like he has done continually, most definitley.

and the cries of "who's better" is just laughable.

The problem is not who's better it's more where the hell will they get the cash to pay him off and bring in someone else.

i merely took issue with the people calling for rafa's head because of today's result. im sure his tactics during the game wouldve been very different if he has several other players to call on, players who were injured, so yes i do think swine flu or whatever effected him. in the back of his mind also he may have thought he had to rest kuyt and yossi as he will have alot of players missing so yes i will say again that the injuries currently in the team are having a massive effect on tactis during matches

mormank

nuxxx wrote: »

He would not get into the utd, chelsea or arsenal side and i believe that

i was reading this thread and simply could not let you get away with this complete tosh!! just in case any mis informed person read it and took it for gospel. of course he would get on for those teams if in those squads! valencia played for wigan last season and gets into that side, benny would play for them also! are you honestly telling me that he wouldnt get game time ahead of nani? or at times slot in on the right instead of valencia? at arsenal i also believe he would play, and would probably slot in quite well id imagine with how they play football. as for chelsea he would be a far more effective player for them than malouda or kalou!

Sully

Don't believe this has been posted;

Ronnie Whelan launched a sensational attack on Rafael Benitez on RTÉ television last night, suggesting that the Liverpool manager has already given up on the Premier League title and that his days are numbered at Anfield.

Speaking on RTÉ's Premier Soccer Saturday, Whelan was reacting to his former club Liverpool's 3-1 defeat to Fulham.

Asked by presenter Darragh Maloney what had gone wrong at Craven Cottage, Whelan replied: 'It's all gone wrong with the manager. He's shown exactly today where his priorities lie.'

The former Ireland midfielder went on to suggest that Benitez is already thinking of his next job.

'He wants to win the European Cup. He wants to be the man who wins the European Cup so he can get a job anywhere in Europe. I think after winning the European Cup with Liverpool he will get a job in Europe anyway but, for me, now, his days have got to be numbered at Liverpool.'

Whelan reckoned that the team selected by Benitez to face Fulham on Saturday was not strong enough to get a result at Craven Cottage and that he could not understand the Spanish manager's motivations.

'Why after such a great result against Manchester United, do you want to take a huge step backwards after losing to Arsenal in the Carling Cup as well? I don't see where he's coming from now.

'He showed me today that he wants to win the Champions League and that's all he cares about - because of the team he picked today.'

Maloney then asked if Whelan believed that Benitez had given up on the title race already.

'When I saw the team I thought that straight away. He's not really bothered now. And I can't see why he's done it.

'He's taken players off who are the only players who are going to give you a chance of winning the game. And he drags them all off because he's got a game on Wednesday.'

Whelan also condemned Benitez for prioritising European success over domestic results, especially given Liverpool's precarious grip on staying in the Champions League.

'He's putting all his eggs in one basket. If he loses in Lyon, he probably won't qualify for the Champions League for the knockout stages. So, he's out of the Champions League; he's not going to win the Premiership anyway - so he's messed up completely.'

Liverpool travel to Lyon on Wednesday for a vital Champions League tie knowing that anything less than a win would make qualification for the knock-out stages unlikely.

Source: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/1101/whelanr.html

Still not sure I would rule Pool out of the League, whatever about the Champions League.

jesus_thats_gre

I can't get my head around his logic.

Taking off Torres and Benayoun in the context of this single match in isolation was a bizarre tactical decision. Considering the goal was to win the match, removing our two biggest goal threats made achieving that goal quite difficult.

The list of players missing as a result of a virus or injury yesterday is well documented. In the the lead up to the match, it was rumoured that Torres, Lucus and Spearing were also suffering from the virus. The first two started the match and the third was on the bench.

Considering that the manager has a duty to look at the big picture and obviously has to consider the match against Lyon in midweek, the decisions to take off Torres (who is just back from injury and was rumoured to be missing the game beforehand) and Benayoun isn't all that bizarre. As a fan is sucks balls as it was obviously detrimental to our chances of winning the match and also the league but it would be completely irresponsible to sacrifice everything for the sake of one match.

When you consider the list of those injured or sick and those now suspended, taking off Torres if there was any risk to him getting injured could be absolutely vital to us over the next few weeks.

Surely Whelan is aware of what we are and can factor that into his decision making process?

Whelan reckoned that the team selected by Benitez to face Fulham on Saturday was not strong enough to get a result at Craven Cottage and that he could not understand the Spanish manager's motivations.

jank

Sully wrote: »

Still not sure I would rule Pool out of the League, whatever about the Champions League.

You always have ex liverpool players giving out about this or that. Lucky they didnt have Dunphy on....:D


About the league, sorry but liverpool have no chance what so ever at this stage. I think most liverpool fans have given up the ghost.

jesus_thats_gre

Realistically, I don't see it happening now but there is still a chance as I expect other teams to drop quite a lot of points over the course of the season.

~Rebel~

jank wrote: »

About the league, sorry but liverpool have no chance what so ever at this stage. I think most liverpool fans have given up the ghost.

In terms of winning the league, it would take some serious upsets for Pool to come back into it, and tbh this year i think its Chelsea's to lose.

Having said that, I dont want any slacking off, I still want us to achieve the highest points total we possibly can this season, and I don't want other competitions taking the focus off the league in the long term.

I do respect and understand that the club really does need to get out of the group stages in the CL, in order to secure funds, but beyond that stage I don't really want to see us visibly resting players in league games to have them fit for the CL. By all means, try to win the CL, but not at the expense of the league.

Its unlikely, but getting into the knockouts could be the difference between money being available in January or not. This may be something Rafa is aware of and may make some sense of his decisions. It certainly makes more sense then Whelan's drivel about Rafa improving his CV.

So yeah, imo all out to reach the knock outs, and then back to league being primary focus for the remainder of the season.

edit> I have a personal dream that if Rafa gets into the knockouts, we have a deal in place to swap Babel + cash for Suarez, who is dying to play in the CL.

Liam O

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In terms of winning the league, it would take some serious upsets for Pool to come back into it, and tbh this year i think its Chelsea's to lose.

yeah, 2 points is massive in November :rolleyes: especially when you consider they are losing their 2 best players for about a month and haven't exactly set the world alight this season I think it'll be very close. Arsenal are a real dark horse and United will be up there too. Even City (if they pick their game up a bit and learn how to nick those close games) could be in the mix.

~Rebel~

Liam O wrote: »

yeah, 2 points is massive in November :rolleyes: especially when you consider they are losing their 2 best players for about a month and haven't exactly set the world alight this season I think it'll be very close. Arsenal are a real dark horse and United will be up there too. Even City (if they pick their game up a bit and learn how to nick those close games) could be in the mix.

fukin harsh use of rolleyes. Imo Chelsea are my big favourites for the league. If you disagree fine, but its hardly a crazy comment. (i hate rolleyes).

Yes utd are still close, but Chelsea are playing far better far more consistent football. ManU are very very fortunate to be in the position they are in given the football they have ben playing. Yes, they could turn that around and chelsea could collapse, and if that happens i will readjust my thinking, but as it stands, Chelsea are my pick.

As for losing Essien and Drogba, it is a big loss alright, but I think they have the squad depth to keep up their performances. Look at last season where they missed those 2 for massive stretches and still kept up close to the top. This year (injuries notwithstanding) they will be without them for a far shorter time, and do have last seasons top scorer as well as a fit Joe cole to help out, not to mention an abundance of midfield talent in Mikel, Lamps and Ballack.

kida

Have pool appealed the 3 red cards or was it just Rafa ranting? Don't the FA look unfavourly on frivolous appeals so would he risk adding to the bans? IMO neither are appealable: Degen caught the Fulham player, Carragher may have gotten the ball but IMO the foul was the holding of the player.

Assume Degens is 3 matches, anyone know if Carraghers would be 1 or 3?