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Unions and their role in the economy

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    #62
    Brigantes
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭Brigantes


    OMD wrote: »
    Brigantes, you keep going on about how people feel public servants earn 50K a year. The average public servant earns over45K a year, their job is permanent and pensionable. According to CSO average public sector worker (excluding health) earned €49343 in 2008. Now are you happy.

    http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

    Not really. Take 10 public sector workers. 5 earn 20,000pa and 5 earn 80,000. What's the average public sector wage?

    My point, which you're missing spectacularly, is that no one doubts that the public sector is top-heavy. Clearly those earning above 50K pa need pay cuts and pay freezes. But a draconian slash of pay across the board is ridiculous and to pretend that this mystical 'average' wage justifies doing nothing but slashing pay for low and medium workers, all the while leaving the creaking, rotten system as-is, is no solution.

    Pray to God that this time next year none of us will need the services of a new nurse who had her basic salary of 30000pa further reduced in this year's budget.

    Oh. You also fail to point out that these 'statistics' have the following addendum at the bottom:

    LAST-UPDATED
    2009-10-08 16:49

    So these distorted averages don't even take into account the 1% income levy nor the 7% pension levy. No wonder we're in the mess we're in when Government's own figures are 12 months out of date and the populace lap it up, so long as it doesn't impact on their wages.


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    #63
    Brigantes
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭Brigantes


    OMD wrote: »
    Well of course they do. It is an average. Brigantes keeps going on about it as if it is some made up figure. It is not. You say that

    ...."the average public servant earns €49k" is complete rubbish

    Then show us. You say the CSO is wrong. Show us.

    See my previous post. Take some time to do the sums. Then apologise to the nice man.


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    #64
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    OMD wrote: »
    Well of course they do. It is an average. Brigantes keeps going on about it as if it is some made up figure. It is not. You say that

    ...."the average public servant earns €49k" is complete rubbish

    Then show us. You say the CSO is wrong. Show us.

    You're confusing average wage with median wage. The latter is what you're thinking of and it isn't reported.


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    #65
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Brigantes wrote: »
    Not really. Take 10 public sector workers. 5 earn 20,000pa and 5 earn 80,000. What's the average public sector wage?

    My point, which you're missing spectacularly, is that no one doubts that the public sector is top-heavy. Clearly those earning about 50K pa need pay cuts and pay freezes. But a draconian slash of pay across the board is ridiculous and to pretend that this mystical 'average' wage justifies doing nothing but slashing pay for low and medium workers, all the while leaving the creaking, rotten system as-is, is no solution.

    Pray to God that this time next year none of us will need the services of a new nurse who had her basic salary of 30000pa further reduced in this year's budget.

    Oh. You also fail to point out that these 'statistics' have the following addendum at the bottom:

    LAST-UPDATED
    2009-10-08 16:49

    So these distorted averages don't even take into account the 1% income levy nor the 7% pension levy. No wonder we're in the mess we're in when Government's own figures are 12 months out of date and the populace lap it up, so long as it doesn't impact on their wages.

    Oh my God. Where to start.

    First the figures are from the 8th Oct 2009. That is 25 days ago. Not one year.

    Figures are before tax so do not include levies of any kind.

    A newly qualified nurse (aged about 22) earns about 34,000 a yearfor a 37.5 hour week. (not 30K as you say) By age 27 she should expect to earn 43k or so.

    According to 24/7 alliance 2/3 public sector workers earn over 40K a year. http://www.7stepstotransform.ie/myths.php


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    #66
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Guys, please do not turn this thread into another debate on public sector wages. If you want to discuss the average public sector wage start a new thread and we can throw stats around.

    Keep this posts in this thread about unions and public sector unions in particular.


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    #67
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Riskymove wrote: »
    not this again...there is no such thing as an average public sector worker...."the average public servant earns €49k" is complete rubbish

    the average public sector wage was €49,343 in 2008

    a large proportion of the PS earns less than that

    I think its pretty clear that when people say the average public servant they know that there is not a hundred thousand public servants all doing the exact same job at the exact same salary, its like saying the average accountant earns 50k. Everybody knows that the Partner in a big 4 firm is earning hundreds of thousands while trainee accountants are on 20k, but generally accountants earn around the 50k mark and depending on seniority your salary will be above or below this. Its typical PS rubbish to come out with what you just have

    On the other side of your last statement there are also a hell of a lot earning over €49,343.


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    #68
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    nesf wrote: »
    You're confusing average wage with median wage. The latter is what you're thinking of and it isn't reported.

    Yes but as I said 24/7 Alliance (which is fighting pay cuts) says 2/3 earn over 40K. So at least we know the median is above 40K.


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    #69
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    OMD wrote: »
    Yes but as I said 24/7 Alliance (which is fighting pay cuts) says 2/3 earn over 40K. So at least we know the median is above 40K.

    It depends on their definition of public service, and honestly please take it to a different thread.


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    #70
    Brigantes
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭Brigantes


    OMD wrote: »
    Oh my God. Where to start.

    First the figures are from the 8th Oct 2009. That is 25 days ago. Not one year.

    That's true, you're right. Clearly my morning coffee hasn't worked yet.


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    #71
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Riskymove wrote: »
    not this again...there is no such thing as an average public sector worker...."the average public servant earns €49k" is complete rubbish

    the average public sector wage was €49,343 in 2008

    a large proportion of the PS earns less than that

    semantics


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    #72
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    irish_bob wrote: »
    semantics

    Which part of "don't turn this thread into a debate on public sector wages" didn't you understand? Take your shoulder and your chip to a different thread.


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    #73
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    I think its pretty clear that when people say the average public servant they know etc

    unfortunately its not clear at all, all you have to do is read the context of what people say and how they say it

    I think its clear that many people portray the "average wage of €49k" as being "commonplace" or "usual" which is an incorrect way to portray it

    On the other side of your last statement there are also a hell of a lot earning over €49,343.

    any analysis of the figures will i believe show there are more earning less than the average than more
    Its typical PS rubbish to come out with what you just have

    so "facts" are now "typical PS rubbish"?
    honestly please take it to a different thread.

    fine I'll leave the discussion there


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    #74
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Riskymove wrote: »
    fine I'll leave the discussion there

    Right, next time you continue the discussion after I've requested it stopped and appended the above to the end of the post I'll ban you. When I say stop taking a thread off-topic that means you stop taking threads off-topic not get one last reply in before you decide to leave the discussion.


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    #75
    gerry28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 438 ✭✭gerry28


    Just seen the mods request - deleted


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    #76
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    sometimes the unions broke the country,instance alot of international companies closed up shop thanks to wage demands the unions made so they went to eastern europe or even china where trade unions arent recognised,looking at ryanair it turned into biggest airline in europe and it doesnt recognise unions,i know it would break aer lingus in two if took it over,as for the hotel sector,well the country was booming like the building sector some workers did get expolited but nobody cared..


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