Funerals

ShooterSF

LZ5by5 wrote: »

That's the whole point really, you're thinking about offending these people. It just comes across as self importance tbh.

I'm not "thinking of offending them". At least at the time. I had other things on my mind. That comment was in hindsight because anyone that gets offended at my grieving process is a word that will just get starred out by the swear filter.

Dades

To be honest, thinking about this, showing up at a funeral should be enough. I don't do the whole kneeling thing though other than that you wouldn't notice I wasn't one of the masses.

You'd swear there was something shameful about not actually being (or pretending to be) catholic.

Handsome Bob

Dades wrote: »

To be honest, thinking about this, showing up at a funeral should be enough. I don't do the whole kneeling thing though other than that you wouldn't notice I wasn't one of the masses.

You'd swear there was something shameful about not actually being (or pretending to be) catholic.

It's not really about that, it's about how you come across to other people. Personally if I saw someone sitting while everybody was standing at a funeral or sitting while everyone was kneeling I'd think you were trying to make a point at an inappropiate moment. It reeks of ego. Listen, my brother is the biggest anti-theist I know but he stills "plays along" with these things at funerals and the like, he just does it with the biggest sour face imaginable.

Dades

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Personally if I saw someone sitting while everybody was standing at a funeral or sitting while everyone was kneeling I'd think you were trying to make a point at an inappropriate moment

At what point in the future though does it stop being someone making a point and become simply someone who isn't catholic? When will it be acceptable to not be catholic?

Handsome Bob

Dades wrote: »

At what point in the future though does it stop being someone making a point and become simply someone who isn't catholic? When will it be acceptable to not be catholic?

But people who would be taking offence wouldn't be offended because they are catholic, they would be offended because they would feel you are disrespecting the occasion. Technically there's nothing wrong with not taking part in the aspects of mass if you are an atheist, but it's something that will inevitably bring you hassle at funerals. Is it worth the hassle? Not IMO.

Mike 1972

inevitably ?

Handsome Bob

Mike 1972 wrote: »

inevitably ?

It's inevitable that there will be chinese whispers originating from somewhere. If you don't think old biddies will take offence and embelish the story then I'm afraid you are mistaken!

liamw

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's inevitable that there will be chinese whispers originating from somewhere. If you don't think old biddies will take offence and embelish the story then I'm afraid you are mistaken!

Let them take offense. Most of those old biddies gossiping probably don't even know how to spell evolution.

Handsome Bob

liamw wrote: »

Let them take offense. Most of those old biddies gossiping probably don't even know how to spell evolution.

How do you know that by the time the story gets around to someone you actually care it about that the story won't have been incredibly embellished? Again I'm speaking hypothetically but these are very possible situations. Is it worth the hassle just for a bit of standing and kneeling?

ShooterSF

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's inevitable that there will be chinese whispers originating from somewhere. If you don't think old biddies will take offence and embelish the story then I'm afraid you are mistaken!

So one should cater to the ignorance of old biddies? Sorry but they should be the ones to change their attitude because they're the problem.

Handsome Bob

ShooterSF wrote: »

So one should cater to the ignorance of old biddies? Sorry but they should be the ones to change their attitude because they're the problem.

No, I'd be catering towards my own interests.

Dades

LZ5by5 wrote: »

But people who would be taking offence wouldn't be offended because they are catholic, they would be offended because they would feel you are disrespecting the occasion. Technically there's nothing wrong with not taking part in the aspects of mass if you are an atheist, but it's something that will inevitably bring you hassle at funerals. Is it worth the hassle? Not IMO.

That hasn't really addressed what I was getting at. Pretending to be a catholic at funerals for many people is a charade. Should people always have to pretend to be catholics at a funeral mass to show respect? When is it okay to have your own beliefs?

dvpower

patmartino wrote: »

It is not my fault that a delusional religion has cornered the market in this country for death.

In fairness to the RCC, they have brought a pretty good product to the market. People do often find that the funeral ceremony is a useful step in the whole bereavement process.

If you're asked to participate, it would seem rude not to at least follow some protocol and leave your political objections temporarily at the door.

dvpower

Dades wrote: »

Should people always have to pretend to be catholics at a funeral mass to show respect?

If I was asked to a Muslim funeral, I would first find out what the protocol was, and I would follow it. Same thing if the Queen asked me around for tea.

If I had strong feelings against Islam or the Queen, I might refuse to attend, but in accepting an offer, I also accept that there is some protocol to follow.

Dades wrote: »

When is it okay to have your own beliefs?

Always. They just don't need to always be expressed.

Dades

dvpower wrote: »

If I was asked to a Muslim funeral, I would first find out what the protocol was, and I would follow it. Same thing if the Queen asked me around for tea.

If I had strong feelings against Islam or the Queen, I might refuse to attend, but in accepting an offer, I also accept that there is some protocol to follow.

Protocol? Accept an offer? We're talking about someone who has died - someone that you knew personally more often than not. This isn't some sort of diplomatic tea party. You're not there to appease the steely-eyed amongst them - you're there because you want to be there to remember/celebrate a life that has passed.

Would you kneel before the Queen?

ShooterSF

LZ5by5 wrote: »

No, I'd be catering towards my own interests.

Which is what I was doing

dvpower wrote: »

If I was asked to a Muslim funeral, I would first find out what the protocol was, and I would follow it. Same thing if the Queen asked me around for tea.

If I had strong feelings against Islam or the Queen, I might refuse to attend, but in accepting an offer, I also accept that there is some protocol to follow.


Always. They just don't need to always be expressed.

And say you did have such feelings and yet your parent/spouse/child was Islamic and wanted such a funeral you would refuse to go in such a circumstance?

Mike 1972

If a Roman Catholic goes to a Protestant/Jewish/Islamic/Hindu/Sikh/Non-Religious/Whatever yer having yerself funeral is it possible for them to adhere to protocol in a respectful manner but not to the actual extent pretending to be a Protestant/Jew/Muslim/Hindu/Sikh/Atheist/Agnostic/Whatever yer having yerself without anyone making a scene or a big issue out of it ?

If so why is it not (according to some people here) possible for a Protestant/Jew/Muslim/Hindu/Sikh/Atheist/Agnostic/Whatever yer having yerself to attend a Roman Catholic funeral and do likewise :rolleyes:

patmartino

dvpower wrote: »

If I had strong feelings against Islam or the Queen, I might refuse to attend, but in accepting an offer, I also accept that there is some protocol to follow.

TBH I cannot believe this statement. You equate a funeral to a contract.

The people of this country have been infliltrated by a delusional power hungry cult, who then through the stupidity of our historical and current leaders have allowed the cult to start indoctrinating children from birth, and throughout their lives.

Wake up FFS

patmartino

dvpower wrote: »

In fairness to the RCC, they have brought a pretty good product to the market. People do often find that the funeral ceremony is a useful step in the whole bereavement process.

Only because they have been brainwashed into thinking about how a funeral and death should be handled

dvpower

Dades wrote: »

Protocol? Accept an offer? We're talking about someone who has died - someone that you knew personally more often than not. This isn't some sort of diplomatic tea party. You're not there to appease the steely-eyed amongst them - you're there because you want to be there to remember/celebrate a life that has passed.

But there is some diplomacy involved. If you remain seated when all other are standing or kneeling, or don't offer to shake hands when the sign of peace bit comes around, then that may lead to controversy. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there's a time and a place for everything (and a funeral isn't the time or place).

If you are very closely related to the deceased then maybe its a different story; otherwise, you are not the most important person in the room.

Dades wrote: »

Would you kneel before the Queen?

That's not required. I think a nod of the head is protocol; and, yes, I would (nod).

dvpower

ShooterSF wrote: »

And say you did have such feelings and yet your parent/spouse/child was Islamic and wanted such a funeral you would refuse to go in such a circumstance?

I'd have to have irrationality strong feelings to keep me away. But if I was at my Islamic parent/spouse/child's funeral, I'd find out how the game was played and play it accordingly.

dvpower

patmartino wrote: »

TBH I cannot believe this statement. You equate a funeral to a contract.

I wouldn't go so far as equating it to a contract. Closer to a Mexican wave at a football game. Even if couldn't really be arsed, its easier just to go through the motions. Stand up. Sit down. Doesn't cost a thing. No big deal.

RichieO

Darwin did not make his discoveries to prove that God does not exist, although he proved beyond any shadow of doubt that all the flora and fauna on earth exists without the necessity for a supernatural creator.
Since then, the worlds brightest minds have added so much factual evidence to his theories that there is no way any right thinking person could possibly believe the world and it's contents were created just 6000 yrs ago, by the hand of God, yet there are many that still believe it...
To me, it proves that:
1. The human mind is faulty or less evolved. AND
2. Indoctrination and brainwashing works so much better than education...

Has evolution gone wrong or has it missed a valuable opportunity?

drkpower

patmartino wrote: »

Only because they have been brainwashed into thinking about how a funeral and death should be handled

If you dont agree with the way it is handled; dont go. Offer your condolences directly to the friends and family at their house, or at the receptioon aftwerwards, or wherever. But if you are going to participate in the ceremony in the first place, by going to the funeral, you should at least go through the motions of the ceremony, at least to the extent that you are not obviously sticking two fingers up to the system. That may stick in the craw a little, but nowhere near the level that it may offend one of the family members who see your refusal to stand up/sit down as some form of protest.

This whole issue reminds me a bit of Ronan O'Gara's display of pettiness when some of the Irish team went to meet the Queen (hands in pockets, looking like a school kid who's too cool to care...!). If he couldn't be bothered to offer some respect to the person he was going there to see, he shouldn't have gone.

drkpower

Dades wrote: »

Protocol? Accept an offer? We're talking about someone who has died - someone that you knew personally more often than not. This isn't some sort of diplomatic tea party. You're not there to appease the steely-eyed amongst them - you're there because you want to be there to remember/celebrate a life that has passed.

And you are there to offer support to those who are closest to the deceased; staging some form of mini-protest is probably not what they want to see.

liamw

LZ5by5 wrote: »

How do you know that by the time the story gets around to someone you actually care it about that the story won't have been incredibly embellished? Again I'm speaking hypothetically but these are very possible situations. Is it worth the hassle just for a bit of standing and kneeling?

That's pretty much what held Darwin back for so many years.

Antbert

drkpower wrote: »

If you dont agree with the way it is handled; dont go. Offer your condolences directly to the friends and family at their house, or at the receptioon aftwerwards, or wherever. But if you are going to participate in the ceremony in the first place, by going to the funeral, you should at least go through the motions of the ceremony, at least to the extent that you are not obviously sticking two fingers up to the system. That may stick in the craw a little, but nowhere near the level that it may offend one of the family members who see your refusal to stand up/sit down as some form of protest.

"If you don't like it, go away. It doesn't matter that YOU care that someone you know died." To me it seems more petty to not go to the funeral at all.

All of the 'respect for the grieving family' aside, I'm actually quite annoyed that it would offend somebody to begin with. We live in a country where Not Being Catholic is offensive. And you can say that it's just pettily refusing to take part in a ceremony that's offensive, but it all comes down to Not Being Catholic. That's the offensive part.

And how are you not getting that it ISN'T making a stand? When I went to a funeral recently, I didn't kneel etc. I wasn't thinking 'this'll show those catholic fools'. I suppose I can't make anyone believe that. I didn't actually see one person look at me reprovingly though.

dvpower

Antbert wrote: »

"If you don't like it, go away. It doesn't matter that YOU care that someone you know died." To me it seems more petty to not go to the funeral at all.

All of the 'respect for the grieving family' aside, I'm actually quite annoyed that it would offend somebody to begin with. We live in a country where Not Being Catholic is offensive. And you can say that it's just pettily refusing to take part in a ceremony that's offensive, but it all comes down to Not Being Catholic. That's the offensive part.

And how are you not getting that it ISN'T making a stand? When I went to a funeral recently, I didn't kneel etc. I wasn't thinking 'this'll show those catholic fools'. I suppose I can't make anyone believe that. I didn't actually see one person look at me reprovingly though.

I wouldn't want anyone to pretend to be catholic. But I do think that for a funeral one should leave their politics at the door. If you are at a ceremony then why not participate?

In any mass, there are parts that have audience participation.
The kneeling, standing, sitting bits: I'd go along with these.
The sign of peace: I'd go along with this (who wouldn't?).
The praying bit: I wouldn't go along with this.
The response to prayers: Generally not. I might mumble something out of habit.
The receiving of the communion bit: I wouldn't do that (I'd say it might be quite insulting for an atheist to be seen eating God:eek:)

Antbert

dvpower wrote: »

In any mass, there are parts that have audience participation.
The kneeling, standing, sitting bits: I'd go along with these.
The sign of peace: I'd go along with this (who wouldn't?).
The praying bit: I wouldn't go along with this.
The response to prayers: Generally not. I might mumble something out of habit.
The receiving of the communion bit: I wouldn't do that (I'd say it might be quite insulting for an atheist to be seen eating God:eek:)

OK, but the not receiving of communion is even more obvious than the not kneeling bit. So if anything that's making more of a stand.

As for the mumbling... I just plain don't understand that. I'd have no idea what to say.

Antbert

Sorry missed a bit.

dvpower wrote: »

I wouldn't want anyone to pretend to be catholic. But I do think that for a funeral one should leave their politics at the door. If you are at a ceremony then why not participate?

But that's exactly what you're doing. It's not political to NOT be Catholic. It's not political to NOT lie to people.

drkpower

Antbert wrote: »

And how are you not getting that it ISN'T making a stand?

How are you not reading my posts....:rolleyes:

I said that some family members may see it that way (although Ive no doubt that some people are 'making a stand'); and in that context, doing a little bit of entirely meaningless standing and sitting is the mature, sensible and most respectful think to do.

If you go to a college graduation, but dont really like the Deans etc... who come out in robes at the beginning, should you refuse to stand up like everyone else does to applaud them?

If you go into the High Court, but you dont really respect judges that much, should you stay planted to your seat when he walks in the door while everyone stands up for 5 seconds?

time42play

dvpower wrote: »

I wouldn't want anyone to pretend to be catholic. But I do think that for a funeral one should leave their politics at the door. If you are at a ceremony then why not participate?

In any mass, there are parts that have audience participation.
The kneeling, standing, sitting bits: I'd go along with these.
The sign of peace: I'd go along with this (who wouldn't?).
The praying bit: I wouldn't go along with this.
The response to prayers: Generally not. I might mumble something out of habit.
The receiving of the communion bit: I wouldn't do that (I'd say it might be quite insulting for an atheist to be seen eating God:eek:)

I don't consider non-participation to be "politics". I only set foot inside a church when it's family or OH insists I accompany him to something. I will shake hands with anyone who puts their hand out to me; as the rest is not interaction with other members of the audience I ignore it. I don't roll my eyes or giggle or fidget around or take out one of my gadgets to entertain myself. I have never heard a comment nor seen a nasty look about my lack of participation, including my failing to bob up and down on cue. Only once was I asked why I didn't go up to communion and I simply said "I'm not catholic". No dissertation on what I believe and what I think of their beliefs -- THAT would be politics. I certainly never sit towards the front of a church and it seems to me all the really devout old biddies who are easily offended move as far up as they can.

Antbert

drkpower wrote: »

How are you not reading my posts....:rolleyes:

I said that some family members may see it that way (although Ive no doubt that some people are 'making a stand'); and in that context, doing a little bit of entirely meaningless standing and sitting is the mature, sensible and most respectful think to do.

If you go to a college graduation, but dont really like the Deans etc... who come out in robes at the beginning, should you refuse to stand up like everyone else does to applaud them?

If you go into the High Court, but you dont really respect judges that much, should you stay planted to your seat when he walks in the door while everyone stands up for 5 seconds?

Oh. I actually thought you were saying that it was making a stand, not that it could just be interpreted as one. I take back that remark then.

I've never been to a High Court so I don't really know the protocol... It's also not really the same thing as a funeral. You're implying that I'd be offending these people in their time of grief and it means very little to me to just humour them. Well, in a high court I don't think 'offence' is really the right word... But I don't know how it would work. I'll have to go to one and see. If I really didn't like the Dean for some good reason then I probably wouldn't applaud him... Again, I don't know. I've been at a funeral. I've never been to a High Court or a graduation with an objectionable Dean.

drkpower

Antbert wrote: »

You're implying that I'd be offending these people in their time of grief and it means very little to me to just humour them.

Maybe I am misinterpreting your point here, but, assuming Im not, this is my fundamental problem with this atttitude.

They are the ones who have lost someone. Standing and sitting in a church is an entirely meaningless activity. It is as significant as saying 'God bless you' when some one sneezes or some other empty gesture. But you cant bring yourself to perform such an empty gesture to humour those people who have lost someone close to them?

Thats pretty sh!tty in my view.

Antbert

drkpower wrote: »

Maybe I am misinterpreting your point here, but, assuming Im not, this is my fundamental problem with this atttitude.

They are the ones who have lost someone. Standing and sitting in a church is an entirely meaningless activity. It is as significant as saying 'God bless you' when some one sneezes or some other empty gesture. But you cant bring yourself to perform such an empty gesture to humour those people who have lost someone close to them?

Thats pretty sh!tty in my view.

Wait what?

You read that completely wrong for a start.

First of all, when I said 'you're implying...' I meant the whole sentence. I didn't mean 'you're implying i'm trying to offend them...' then 'it just means nothing to me to humour them' wasn't a seperate thing. I was getting at your whole idea of it being an empty gesture for me. I don't know if I clarified that at all. Just that the second part was a continuation of the first part.

Secondly, I'm at a funeral because i've lost someone as well. And quite frankly, regardless of the situation, and regardless of if you think it's pretty ****ty, I don't think there's any scenario in which I should be ashamed to not be Catholic.

drkpower

Antbert wrote: »

Secondly, I'm at a funeral because i've lost someone as well. And quite frankly, regardless of the situation, and regardless of if you think it's pretty ****ty, I don't think there's any scenario in which I should be ashamed to not be Catholic.

Its not about being ashamed. If you do not believe in God, standing up/sitting down, shaking hands, even eating a bit of bread are entirely meaningless gestures. If going through the motions makes the day easier for those who are greiving, then only someone of a selfish disposition would refuse to perform those empty gestures.

And of course there are degrees of loss; this thread is primarily about what you should do at the funeral of someone where you are not close family/very close friend. As someone else said, where you are not the most important person in the room. If you are the most important person in the room, all bets are off.

Antbert

drkpower wrote: »

Its not about being ashamed. If you do not believe in God, standing up/sitting down, shaking hands, even eating a bit of bread are entirely meaningless gestures. If going through the motions makes the day easier for those who are greiving, then only someone of a selfish disposition would refuse to perform those empty gestures.

Except it is about being ashamed. Because if you get right to the root of why other people are offended (I mean WHY they're upset that you won't just participate just for one day to make things easier, not the fact that you won't) it's about the fact that you aren't Catholic and they are.

And of course there are degrees of loss; this thread is primarily about what you should do at the funeral of someone where you are not close family/very close friend. As someone else said, where you are not the most important person in the room. If you are the most important person in the room, all bets are off.

If I was, it wouldn't be a Catholic funeral. But that aside, in that case I may as well not go. Which isn't fair. It's saying that if you aren't Catholic, you've no right to to go to the funeral, basically. Unless you're willing to pretend to be Catholic.

drkpower

Antbert wrote: »

Except it is about being ashamed.

Is it about shame if I do the standing up and down stuff at a protestant funeral,? Or if I sing the works of Elton John at a secular gay Elton John fan club funeral? Or if I partake in a weird chanting/dancing exercise at a Masai funera/wedding/whatever?

No; its about respecting the beliefs of the deceased and/or his close relatives. It is nothing about shame to me, but it clearly is to you. I feel no shame at not being Catholic or Sikh or Masai or anything. It means as much to me as the Masai rituals; if I engage in their rituals to show a form of respect, why would I feel shame?

Tell me; if you were on a trip to Kenya and stoppped by a Masai village and they invited you to join their evening dinner where they performed some religous ritual before eating, would you say no thank you and refuse, or would you join in to show respect to your hosts?

Antbert

drkpower wrote: »

Is it about shame if I do the standing up and down stuff at a protestant funeral,? Or if I sing the works of Elton John at a secular gay Elton John fan club funeral? Or if I partake in a weird chanting/dancing exercise at a Masai funera/wedding/whatever?

It's not shameful to me personally, it just feels like you're saying society wants me to be ashamed. It's the Catholics, the Elton John fan club, the Masai tribe, or whoever who THINK I should be ashamed. If it isn't seen as shameful (to them) to not be a Catholic then why on earth would anyone be humouring them in the first place? Maybe shameful isn't quite the right word. What is the right word? You tell me, because you're the one telling me it's better to sit, stand and kneel.

No; its about respecting the beliefs of the deceased and/or his close relatives. It is nothing about shame to me, but it clearly is to you. I feel no shame at not being Catholic or Sikh or Masai or anything. It means as much to me as the Masai rituals; if I engage in their rituals to show a form of respect, why would I feel shame?

Point missed... The shame is coming from NOT participating.

Tell me; if you were on a trip to Kenya and stoppped by a Masai village and they invited you to join their evening dinner where they performed some religous ritual before eating, would you say no thank you and refuse, or would you join in to show respect to your hosts?

Depends if it was fun or not. If it was a prayer or something, I wouldn't know it anyway. And if it wasn't fun (like a prayer isn't fun) then no I probably wouldn't. Why would I?

drkpower

Antbert wrote: »

Depends if it was fun or not. If it was a prayer or something, I wouldn't know it anyway. And if it wasn't fun (like a prayer isn't fun) then no I probably wouldn't. Why would I?

Says it all! Only if there is something in it for you, would you consider joining in......?!

I dont feel threatened by engaging in the cultural and religous activities of others when I am attending their ceremonies. When someone asks me (implicitly or explicitly) to partake in their ceremonies, as I have no spiritual beliefs myself and partaking is very unlikely to affect me negatively, the first question I ask is "why wouldn't I?", not "why would I?".

Thats the difference beween us!
Good luck:rolleyes:

dvpower

Antbert wrote: »

But that's exactly what you're doing. It's not political to NOT be Catholic. It's not political to NOT lie to people.

Of course it not political to not be catholic. Its only political if you choose to go to a catholic ceremony and then make a point of not participating where you know that that will send a message (rightly or wrongly).

The message might be a perfectly innocent one ("I'm not a practising catholic"), but you know the message that will be received by some ("Did you see Antbert at auntie Betty's funeral. Stayed glued to his seat he did. He wouldn't even offer the sign of peace. Disrespectful it was.").

dvpower

Antbert wrote: »

OK, but the not receiving of communion is even more obvious than the not kneeling bit. So if anything that's making more of a stand.

Not at all. Receiving communion wouldn't be respectful, imo. Catholics have it in their head that it is the actual body of Christ, or True Presence or something (that I don't fully understand).

Receiving communion would be pretending to be catholic, which I'm not advocating.

Dades

What's the difference between doing everything a catholic does for fear someone will look reprovingly at you for not being one - and pretending to be a catholic?

It's pretending to be something your not, end of story for me.

drkpower

Dades wrote: »

It's pretending to be something your not, end of story for me.

As a matter of interest, have you never done that in your personal or professional life? Most of us do it all the time, to a lesser or greater degree.

But its not pretending to be something your not anyway. It is showing respect for your host by following their customs and practices. If sitting/standing makes an atheist so uncomfortable, (a) how did they manage to enter the church in the first place and (b) they need to be concerned as to the strenght of their own non-belief.

Ive attended a number of faith's religous occasions; I never felt threatened by them. Why would bobbbing up and down in a church make anyone feel so uncomfortable/threatened.

Turtwig

drkpower wrote: »

Why would bobbbing up and down in a church make anyone feel so uncomfortable/threatened.

Maybe it's fear that you might get whisked back into iirational faith?
Honestly, there is something hypnotic about those chants during mass.
Have to go God is calling me.:D

Daftendirekt

dvpower:

Just out of curiosity - why is it disrespectful for a non-believer to take communion at a Catholic funeral, but not disrespectful to go through all the other motions?

Wouldn't it be more respectful to just stand or sit at the back, rather than making a show of participating when the whole ceremony is meaningless to you?

Turtwig

Daftendirekt wrote: »

drkpower:

Just out of curiosity - why is it disrespectful for a non-believer to take communion at a Catholic funeral, but not disrespectful to go through all the other motions?

Wouldn't it be more respectful to just stand or sit at the back, rather than making a show of participating when the whole ceremony is meaningless to you?

dvpower:p

dvpower

Daftendirekt wrote: »

drkpower:

Just out of curiosity - why is it disrespectful for a non-believer to take communion at a Catholic funeral, but not disrespectful to go through all the other motions?

Wouldn't it be more respectful to just stand or sit at the back, rather than making a show of participating when the whole ceremony is meaningless to you?

For catholics, taking communion is a sacrament. Its not just the motions. They take it very seriously; they even sometimes have rows with their fellow Christians when Catholics take it in Protestant churches; remember that thing recently with President McAleese?
Anyway, I'm not an expert; I'm sure the folks over in the Christianity forum would be happy to explain it all (ad nauseam;)).

But if you did think that standing at the back was more respectful than going through the motions then perhaps that would be the best thing for you to do if the circumstance arose. My disagreement would be more with those who would refuse to go through the motions on a point of principal.

lmaopml

Hi, I'm a Catholic, and just got directed here and had my interest peeked by a post on the Christian forum....and now I can see the context of the post.....Bty, I think it's an excellent topic.

As a person, moreso than even a 'Catholic' I usually find out when I'm visiting someone what's 'allowed' and what's not 'allowed'...and what might be offensive when I'm visiting a friend. For instance I smoke:eek:, but when I visit some friends who don't I wouldn't dream of 'lighting up'...in thier home. Likewise, if I were visiting a Muslim Mosque I would make sure I observed the custom of taking my shoes off etc. In essence what I would be doing is showing respect as a visitor, without actually 'declaring' the fact that I am 'not' a Muslim. I would have regard for the fact I am 'visiting'.

I can see where the op is coming from....and if your interested in what would and would not cause offence next time you decide to visit a Church, I guess it's all in the delivery...If somebody is visiting a Catholic church and has regard for others who may be Catholic than I suppose the likes of not making yourself overly political in your 'disregard' would help. I think the most offensive thing would be to openly declare yourself to your fellow Catholics as 'atheist' and still receive the Eucharist....There would be no need to take part in this part of the mass, and it is considered the most important part by Catholics. That would be more offensive than not standing or sitting etc. Actually, most people probably wouldn't even realise you weren't standing or sitting, and they may just put it down to you having a bad back or something...lol...

Dades

drkpower wrote: »

But its not pretending to be something your not anyway. It is showing respect for your host by following their customs and practices. If sitting/standing makes an atheist so uncomfortable, (a) how did they manage to enter the church in the first place and (b) they need to be concerned as to the strenght of their own non-belief.

What do you mean "host"? Why do people go to funerals? To show that you care about the passing of someone - not to take part in a mumblefest. My wife's uncle died recently and he had made it clear he was a humanist and didn't believe in an afterlife. Not that that stopped the usual trappings being offered up by his family. His (separated) widow even put rosary beads in his coffin. In this case would you think everyone should kneel and mumble along?

drkpower wrote: »

Ive attended a number of faith's religous occasions; I never felt threatened by them. Why would bobbbing up and down in a church make anyone feel so uncomfortable/threatened.

Standing up and down is all very well. I just don't kneel (no human should) or get communion and don't feel I should have to just to appease random peoples' sensibilities. And by random people - I mean the type of people who would notice - rather than the immediate family who have real things on their minds.