6th of november March (Union's ?)

Cabaal

deise blue wrote: »

Another one who is apparently in denial !
As I say the highest pro rata turnout in the country , a tribute to the people of Waterford who clearly demonstrated their opposition to Government cuts and who clearly see that there is a fairer way to proceed rather than cutting pay , social welfare and children's benefit.

Hang on now people in the march and the news clearly reported that people taking place were not just all from Waterford so suggesting it was a great turnout for Waterford people is factually incorrect and misleading (something you've suggested other people have done)

Soo when you take this into account 8K is not very much if you consider they were people from Waterford, Kilkenny, & Wexford (at the very least) taking part) (most likely carrick also as its pretty close)

There are always people are quite happy to disbelieve all available evidence of the large numbers involved as it does not suit their personal agenda.
Let's cheer you up - we'll settle on 50 !

My personal agenda is logic and common sense, if you want to be so paranoid that you think the world is against you then thats fine I'm not going to waste my time even getting into a debate with regards to such foolish thoughts.

deise blue

As you say there's really no point in debating this .
I'm anti pay cuts , cuts in social welfare cuts and children's allowance and other people are not although there seems to be common ground on the question of reinventing the tax system.
I'm quite sure that the vast majority of people were from Waterford 8,000 perhaps of the 10,000 ( my estimate as someone who actually marched ) but you are quite right I owe an apology to the similar minded people from surrounding counties.
I look forward to a march in favour of the cuts and then we can compare numbers !

baronflyguy

Just heard on the news that teachers are going on strike November 24th.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1113/education.html
Is it just teachers or is it an all out strike all civil servants/public servants?

To me that just means some private sector employees will probably have to take time off work to mind their kids. Time that they probably don't have coming up to Christmas. But who cares causes no one wants to strike on a day off like Saturday or Sunday.
Personally I would have expected more from our academics/educators because they should have the cop on to know the full picture and the if they don't cut 4bn soon the IMF will dictate how to financially run our country (strike or no strike) and that would be worse.

btw, I dont have kids but I do work with people who have kids and I can see the stress they deal with having to juggle work and home life.

Aside, whats the difference between civil servant and public servant?
Can they be used interchangeably meaning the same thing?

merlante

deise blue wrote: »

As you say there's really no point in debating this .
I'm anti pay cuts , cuts in social welfare cuts and children's allowance and other people are not although there seems to be common ground on the question of reinventing the tax system.
I'm quite sure that the vast majority of people were from Waterford 8,000 perhaps of the 10,000 ( my estimate as someone who actually marched ) but you are quite right I owe an apology to the similar minded people from surrounding counties.
I look forward to a march in favour of the cuts and then we can compare numbers !

I'm anti paycuts, social welfare cuts, cuts in children's allowance, etc. as well, but that doesn't mean they don't have to happen. During the famine I'd say people were anti emigration, but they still left the country rather than starve.

This country is bankrupt and we're paying for everything on hoc, literally. The country got a 50% pay cut when everybody stopped working, spending and building houses and now it can't even afford the basics, like teachers anymore. We're going to keep the teachers and nurses and doctors and civil servants because we need them, and because our creditors don't have the heart to force us to wind up the country, but that doesn't mean we're going to keep on paying the old price for them either.

It's like getting paid 200 a week and having a lifestyle of 400 a week and paying for the balance of what you can't afford on the credit card. On the same scale, the government is trying to get the lifestyle down to about 370 a week. Still miles off, but if we try to reduce the damage a bit, maybe we won't be in such a great big pit of debt if and when things turn around.

I will be affected by these cuts, even though my salary actually comes from Europe, and I'm pretty anti-that, but I know why they're doing it. Maybe it is possible to ride out the storm without cutting back, but no economist has had the balls to suggest it. Maybe it is possible to ride it out without cutting back much, but that is nearly as risky and as reckless and as likely to fail as NAMA. And we don't need another NAMA-like risk.

So all those people can march all they want and be anti-whatever-they-want. There's only one plan in town that has been properly worked out, and for all we know that one will completely fail anyway. There is nothing else that anybody has seriously considered, and those who are against it either know something I don't, or are like ostriches with their heads in the sand. Or maybe they're confused and don't see the intimate link between a deficit of €26bn a year and the Irish people descending into real poverty (or ending up like a basketcase country that nobody will lend money to ever again).

I'm not a fan of the government, but there is no fairer way.

ec18

deise blue wrote: »

Another one who is apparently in denial !
As I say the highest pro rata turnout in the country , a tribute to the people of Waterford who clearly demonstrated their opposition to Government cuts and who clearly see that there is a fairer way to proceed rather than cutting pay , social welfare and children's benefit.

I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense. You want the same amount of pay when there isn't the money there? In regards to social welfare the system we have is a joke. It's far too generous and thus you have the situation that people stay on it indefinitely. (which is bad in case you didn't know) The whole system needs an overhaul so there is some incentive for people to actively seek out work. (To clarify I'm referring to people who spend their lives on social welfare not people who have suffered job loss).

I thought that all this nonsense would have dried up after Jack O'Connor made a fool of himself on Frontline. But obviously there are some people who still believe that cutting public service pay doesn't need to be cut. I don't understand where people are coming from that they believe public service pay cuts are unnecessary, when you make less money you obviously can't spend as much. But hey when you're in a union facts and logic don't matter. :rolleyes:

alpha2zulu

well butty wrote: »

You really are delusional!:)

When everything turns around (and it will) the Country and companies who want to invest in Ireland will remember the militant unions in Waterford (not Kilkenny).

Thats been going on for years in an unofficial capacity, but can you honestly blame these international investors. Waterford may have been a manufactureing powerhouse but as this sector dies out I can't see what is replacing it.

With the Dublin access problem gone with the M9, there should be no reason in theory that these investors won't pick Kilkenny over Waterford. The advantages that the city has on paper include an Airport with access to London, motorway to Dublin,WIT grads, plenty of development room etc but the elephant in the room is obviously industrial relations history. People can ignore this at their peril but thats just the way the busines world gos around

If I'm Mr.USA investor do I want risk having images of sit in's and vandalisim of company property if I ever have let people go???


For someone like myself being mobile I dont mind if I have to work in Waterford or Kilkenny or Cork or London or wherever, but its the people that cant move I feel sorry for.

Indeed Kilkenny now has quite a decent fianancial services park opposite the Glanbia HQ, with BOI and AIB business banking, Taxback.com, and State Street all in the one park who all have mny WIT grads.