One step at a time

Sosa

RubyK wrote: »

Hi there, sorry to butt in on your log, but there's has been no mention of this Waterford - Tramore race in A/R/T Events, so hope you don't mind me asking you a couple of questions about this race! Did you do it last year? Is there a water station (or will I have to rob a drink off Tawdy :eek::D) ? Were there many runners last year?

It's forecast to be quite breezy - hopefully the breeze will be to our backs!

Hey Ruby,
I have done it the last 2 years,the route is from city hall straight out to the majestic in tramore.
I use the tramore road for all my long runs and the wind is usually in your face going out the way and on your back coming in,but for some reason the two years i have done this race there has been no wind at all,perfect running conditions,theres a water station at katie reillys,and lets be honest what hope have you off getting a drink of Tawdy ?
He is my one man support group for my LSR's,gives me a roar every time and if he's in good from adds a little comment or two.....
The weather lately has been very windy,but its the same for everyone,just tuck in behind someone and you will be fine.
there was well over 300 last year,i think nearer 400 tbh.
I would love to be having a proper go at it but the half last Sunday has knocked me a bit,so i won't be pushing.

RubyK

Thanks for that Sosa!

Good to know where the water stop is, so Tawdy and his beers will be safe I'm sure he'll be out supporting you tomorrow evening, maybe with a flag and all!

I'm sure you'll do a great time, regardless of going for it or not.

Krusty_Clown

Right, enough is enough. Who is Tawdy?!

RubyK

Tawdy is a Deise Landmark, found half way between Tramore & Waterford, on the main road, by Katie Rileys pub (The Halfway House). Hail, rain or shine, Tawdy will be at the side of the road, with a stash of liquid supplies.

DustyBin

Ahhh ... I think I saw him at the Waterford Half in December
He gave me a right big smile and an encouraging wave of a bottle shaped brown paper bag about halfway on the outward leg
He was standing in a gateway on the side of the road
Now at least I'll know his name if I go back down this year

Sosa

DustyBin wrote: »

Ahhh ... I think I saw him at the Waterford Half in December
He gave me a right big smile and an encouraging wave of a bottle shaped brown paper bag about halfway on the outward leg
He was standing in a gateway on the side of the road
Now at least I'll know his name if I go back down this year

Tawdy Morrissey to give him his full title,sometimes i see him at the entrance to leoville on the dunmore road,he must have family or a friend living around there.
As Ruby said,he is a Deise Landmark...following on from Cashin and Miller.

He will be there tomorrow night,with a flag in one hand and bottle or can in the other and his high viz jacket on him.

Sosa

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Type|Weather|Weeks to Cork
03-05-10|5|7:44|Recovery|Warm but windy|5
04-05-10|3|7:37|Aerobic|Same as Yesterday|5
05-05-10|6|7:01|Aerobic|Dull but very warm|5
06-05-10|6.6|7:35|Aerobic|Rain never came,very warm|5
07-05-10|Rest||||5
08-05-10|||||5
09-05-10|||||5


I took a rest day yesterday as i wasn't feeling great the two days previous,thought it was a good idea as its a recovery week anyway and next week will be tough.
I am just back from a walk with the dog,the vet told me she is a biot overweight on her last check up,so i have to up her training.
Now,she's no wonder hound like what amadeus has,but she loves a good walk and this morning we broke into 3 jogs along our usual route which she coped with well.
Might make this a regular thing as its a nice little trot for me and she seems to enjoy it.

Looking forward to tonights race now,something tells me that tramore road will be cruel tonight,its very breezy out there this morning.
Thankfully im only clipping along at pmp.
Those lads at the front will earn there few euros tonight

Long 16+|Med 12-16|Aerobic|Vo2|Recovery|Race|Total
10|3|24|3|10|2|52


Wk 1|Wk 2|Wk 3|Wk 4|Wk 5|Wk 6
61|58.23|58.47|58.7|60.2|62|

Wk 7|Wk 8|Wk 9|Wk 10|Wk 11|Wk 12
55.5|46.8|||||

tisnotover

Enjoy tonite Sosa, but of a wind out there alrite, no faster than PMP now though remember !

Sosa

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Type|Weather|Weeks to Cork
03-05-10|5|7:44|Recovery|Warm but windy|5
04-05-10|3|7:37|Aerobic|Same as Yesterday|5
05-05-10|6|7:01|Aerobic|Dull but very warm|5
06-05-10|6.6|7:35|Aerobic|Rain never came,very warm|5
07-05-10|Rest||||5
[EMAIL="08-05-10|12|w/7.5@6:28p|Race|Perfect|5"]08-05-10|12|w/7.5@6:28p|Race|Perfect|5[/EMAIL]
09-05-10|Rest||||5


Waterford to Tramore 7.5m Race 48:34 - 6:28p

During my warm up tonight i was chomping at the bit to race tonight but thankfully i had promised to pace a girl from the club and didnt want to go back on my word.
Her best time was last year where she did 49:01 and she said that she's not running aswell as last year so would try hard to get under the 50.
I had other plans...we started a bit fast.6:21...then 2 around 6:30p...the fourth mile is the toughest with 2 climbs,which are not bad at all but still we slowed and did it in 6:52...she thought we were going to slow but she didnt know at that stage that we were going to be finishing fast...mile 5 was steady at 6:36 or something,then we had a downhill mile 6 where we blew past a load of people in 6:16,she said she was struggling after that but we only had 1.5 to go and we would beat her 49 from last year,so she got on with it anyway,the last mile has 2 climbs into tramore where we slowed again and a few past us,we got to the top with 0.5 to go and i said to her..." lets go " and off we went,i stayed infront to keep her going and she was on my shoulder all the way in....had a glance at the watch at one point and we were under 6:00 ...i had a wry smile...did the last 0.5 in 2:58...bombed it in passing at least 10 people..ever the gentleman with 100 metres to go told her to go ahead,i didnt have to tell her twice...bombed in ahead of me,threw the line,the fella with the scanner was waving at her to slow down...great stuff....i got a feel what Krusty and the other pacers talked about the enjoyment they get from pacing....i really enjoyed it and wanted to keep going.

Needed that lift tonight to gear me up for the next 4 weeks to Cork.
I was great practice tonight,always feeling that you wanted to motor on but holding back,passing through the finish wanting to keep going...thats the way to do it.

Roll on cork !

Long 16+|Med 12-16|Aerobic|Vo2|Recovery|Race|Total
10|3|24|3|10|3|53


Wk 1|Wk 2|Wk 3|Wk 4|Wk 5|Wk 6
61|58.23|58.47|58.7|60.2|62|

Wk 7|Wk 8|Wk 9|Wk 10|Wk 11|Wk 12
55.5|46.8|32.6||||

theboyblunder

fair play Sosa, sounds like you did a good job there.

if you need a boost for cork just flick back through your log over the last few weeks and count the faster-than-pmp miles!

Sosa

theboyblunder wrote: »

fair play Sosa, sounds like you did a good job there.

if you need a boost for cork just flick back through your log over the last few weeks and count the faster-than-pmp miles!

Thanks tbb...i think i got more out of pacing that than i would have if i raced it....really enjoyed it.

tisnotover

Good stuff Sosa, sounds like you got a nice confidence boost from it.

Not long to go now !

village runner

Sosa wrote: »

Thanks tbb...i think i got more out of pacing that than i would have if i raced it....really enjoyed it.

Will you get any benefit in Kind for that ?? I dont know a bla that does somethinh for nothing.

Sosa

Date|Miles|Ave pace|Type|Weather|Weeks to Cork
10-05-10|18.5|6:55p Overall|Long|Very Very Windy |4
11-05-10|||||4
12-05-10|||||4
13-05-10|||||4
14-05-10|||||4
[EMAIL="15-05-10|12|w/7.5@|||4"]15-05-10|||||4[/EMAIL]
16-05-10|||||4


Right,the holiday is over...a miserable 32m last week ( which was in the program ),time to get back to business this week.
Plan was 3m easy followed by 3 reps of 5m @ around 6:40p with 2 min (0.25m) jog inbetween,then finish with 2 easy to make up 20.5m

Started off nicely with the 3 easy @ 7:41,7:30 and 7:34...off i went then for the first set of 5,this was real easy and i though 15 was going to be no bother,did them in 6:43,6:43,6:38,6:34 & 6:27...2min jog then that i really didnt really need at the time.
What followed then was as near a replica of the wexford half that i can possibly imagine,the first set of 5 were done out the tramore road,same route as the race saturday night...wind on my back,it didnt seem that strong at the time,same saturday night,but when i was into the second set of 5 this wall of wind pummeled me for the last 4m of that set but still managed to do them in 6:28,6:49,6:36,6:44 & 6:36...i was begging for the 2 min jog by the end of it and thought how the hell am i going to get going again never mind another 5m at that pace....got going anyway but after a mile it was getting boring tbh,constant battle against the wind while trying to keep a pace going,so i packed in in after 3m of the last set,did those gruesome miles in 6:38,6:45 & 6:37....could have ground out another 2 but i probably would need a couple of days off after it,so i saw no sense in oushing.did the last 2 in 7:33 & 7:17....delighted to be finished.

The race Saturday night threw up some very fast times,the winner ran 15s a mile faster than he did last year,but in general people were running that 7.5m race at a faster pace than they did a 10k race a couple of week earlier....the power of the wind is unreal.
I missed out on a great chance of posting a very fast time there.

18.5m in 2:08:05 - 6:55 Pace Overall
3m @ 7:35p
5m @ 6:36p
2 min jog
5m @ 6:39p
2 min jog
3m @ 6:39p
2m @ 7:25p

All in all not the 15 i wanted,only got 13 done but the last 8 of those were tough....so ( im clinging onto this theory ) effort wise....it felt like about 18.....Krusty/Gringo ye better be right

Just realise i passed though the 1000m today,ah sh1t,i gave a little fist pump last year....that fcekin wind had me pre-occupied

Long 16+|Med 12-16|Aerobic|Vo2|Recovery|Race|Total
10|3|24|3|10|3|53


Wk 1|Wk 2|Wk 3|Wk 4|Wk 5|Wk 6
61|58.23|58.47|58.7|60.2|62|

Wk 7|Wk 8|Wk 9|Wk 10|Wk 11|Wk 12
55.5|46.8|32.6||||

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

All in all not the 15 i wanted,only got 13 done but the last 8 of those were tough....so ( im clinging onto this theory ) effort wise....it felt like about 18.....Krusty/Gringo ye better be right

I think you're missing the point effort wise slightly....

What was called for was 3 x 5 miles at PMP. However, your second set was into a stiff wind yet you tried to hold 6:40. Winner of the 7.5 mile race was 15sec a mile faster than last year so lets say your second set should have been 15-20sec a mile slower than 6:40 to be PMP effort....you ran the second set at around 15 mile race pace effort and then continued with that for the last set. Yes, effort wise it felt like 18, but you missed the point of the training session which was to get used to running at PMP. If you try to hold 6:40 miles into the wind in Cork you will be walking at mile 20. Miles 11 & 12 in Cork are normally into a strong prevailing wind. I have to back 20sec off the pace on those miles to run at the same effort level as other miles. You get the 20 sec back elsewhere by being prepared to believe that at some with the wind or downhill sections it is correct to run at maybe 6:20 pace.

Do you have a heart rate monitor? I really think you should experiment with one to see how much the wind & hills costs you.

Well done on the 1000 miles.....thats very consistent mileage you've been knocking out wekk in week out.

Krusty_Clown

I never ran that fast when I trained for Barcelona. The first time I was hitting 6:36/mile was during the marathon. Not saying anything, in particular... Just thinking out loud, like.....

As Gringo suggested, perhaps you should have run the favourable wind PMP miles a little quicker, and the unfavourable wind miles a little slower. Don't get hung up on the number (6:36?). I never really look at individual mile splits, or even blocks of 5 miles (though I didn't do the kind of session you are doing), but rather the session as a whole (the average of all of your 5 mile blocks).

Gringo78

06:44 / 06:54 / 06:26 / 06:14 / 06:25

Above are some consecutive miles I did back in January (after 2 miles warmup) where I had the same average HR each mile, and actually kept the HR very constant throughout. It was a windy day, start/end point the same. Average pace 6:32. I was up to 22 secs slower into the wind and 18 sec faster with the wind. I think it illustrates the point.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point effort wise slightly....

What was called for was 3 x 5 miles at PMP. However, your second set was into a stiff wind yet you tried to hold 6:40. Winner of the 7.5 mile race was 15sec a mile faster than last year so lets say your second set should have been 15-20sec a mile slower than 6:40 to be PMP effort....you ran the second set at around 15 mile race pace effort and then continued with that for the last set. Yes, effort wise it felt like 18, but you missed the point of the training session which was to get used to running at PMP. If you try to hold 6:40 miles into the wind in Cork you will be walking at mile 20. Miles 11 & 12 in Cork are normally into a strong prevailing wind. I have to back 20sec off the pace on those miles to run at the same effort level as other miles. You get the 20 sec back elsewhere by being prepared to believe that at some with the wind or downhill sections it is correct to run at maybe 6:20 pace.

Do you have a heart rate monitor? I really think you should experiment with one to see how much the wind & hills costs you.

I didnt think of it that way alright,my definition of effort was what it takes out of you not what you illustrated abover,point taken.

I dont have a hrm but might be getting a new garmin soon and if i do will get one with it.

Looking back,if i ran the second set into the wind slower,i would have done the last 2m that i cut short...ah well...theres always Friday ( another LSR )

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I never ran that fast when I trained for Barcelona. The first time I was hitting 6:36/mile was during the marathon. Not saying anything, in particular... Just thinking out loud, like.....

As Gringo suggested, perhaps you should have run the favourable wind PMP miles a little quicker, and the unfavourable wind miles a little slower. Don't get hung up on the number (6:36?). I never really look at individual mile splits, or even blocks of 5 miles (though I didn't do the kind of session you are doing), but rather the session as a whole (the average of all of your 5 mile blocks).

The plan was to do the sets of 5 around 6:40 pace,a few seconds up or down were no big deal,i am not hung up on the times ,i just posted them for the sake of it...overall though 18.5m @ 6:55 on a Monday with the last 11m into a very harsh wind is a good days training but could have been better if i did the second set slower,i see that now.

Gringo78 wrote: »

06:44 / 06:54 / 06:26 / 06:14 / 06:25

Above are some consecutive miles I did back in January (after 2 miles warmup) where I had the same average HR each mile, and actually kept the HR very constant throughout. It was a windy day, start/end point the same. Average pace 6:32. I was up to 22 secs slower into the wind and 18 sec faster with the wind. I think it illustrates the point.

Yeah,it does.
I have 2 more LSR's to do and will plan these ones a bit better and adapt to the weather

-Thanks

Sosa

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I never ran that fast when I trained for Barcelona. The first time I was hitting 6:36/mile was during the marathon. Not saying anything, in particular... Just thinking out loud, like.....

Yeah,but you did the majority of your long runs around 7:00/ 7:05p if i remember....mine are all 7:30ish...then with the last 5 fast,brings it down around 7:25 overall.
Aswell as that you are obviously suited to long distance running,i honestly think i am better at the shorter stuff,in fact i am 100% sure of it.
If i get this sub 3....there maybe no marathons for me for a good while.
Thats why im not greedy,all i want is sub 3 not 2:55 or anything crazy like that,i would more than likely blow up if i tried to go for sub 2:55.

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

I dont have a hrm but might be getting a new garmin soon and if i do will get one with it.

HR is not ideal either but I think its a step in the right direction. If we were cyclists we'd have the power meters but unfortunately they haven't yet invented the power meters for runners....would be very handy.

The way I think of think of things is the analogy of a car....you have a limited amount of petrol to drive 26.2 miles. Drive too hard up the hills or into the wind and you'll run out of petrol. You train at PMP effort so that you burn energy efficiently at that pace (i.e use less glycogen, more fat) and so can run further at that pace. If you deviate from that pace i.e run too fast, you suddenly start burning the fuel too rapidly.

Anyone with a fuel consumption indicator on their car will see what happen when you start to drive up a hill and try to maintain the speed you had on the flat...needle goes off the scale. Pretty much the same while running, you can burn 2 miles worth of glycogen in a quarter mile running too fast. Thats glycogen you can't afford to squander.

Thats why I believe its bad in a marathon to power up the hills and recover down the hills.....you burn too much glycogen doing that, better to ease off the accelerator going up the hill and power down the hill (you need to have run plenty of downhills to be able to do that though).

DustyBin

Sosa wrote: »

Just realise i passed though the 1000m today,ah sh1t,i gave a little fist pump last year....that fcekin wind had me pre-occupied

Fair play Sosa, thats some acheivment this early in the year

I managed to run sub 90 for the half in Kildare yesterday, and coming up to the finish line I was thinking 'do that again for a 3hr marathon? - no way'

You've absolutely done the training and got the miles into the legs to blitz the 3hr mark, the only thing that might stop you at this stage would be an injury or poor race strategy, and I think you learned the race strategy lesson in DCM '09

Look after yourself over the next few weeks and make sure to get there in the shape of your life - don't be killing yourself for little gains at this stage, you've got all the work done.

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

Aswell as that you are obviously suited to long distance running,i honestly think i am better at the shorter stuff,in fact i am 100% sure of it.
If i get this sub 3....there maybe no marathons for me for a good while.
Thats why im not greedy,all i want is sub 3 not 2:55 or anything crazy like that,i would more than likely blow up if i tried to go for sub 2:55.

I think you are more suited to the short stuff, but that just means you need to be very specific in your training to run a good marathon...which I believe you are doing.

Krusty ran his LSR's quite fast I think but I believe they were proportionally slower than his marathon time suggests....by his HR stats I think he ran his last marathon quite 'easy', hence the continuos speed up over the course of the marathon and the fast finish, I think he was well within himself. Krusty might disagree, but time will tell. I think he has many many more minutes to shave off that time.

Endurance doesn't come so easily to me either, I think I'm more of a stamina runner which would mean 10k to HM being my ideal race distances. I think I'll park the marathons for a few years also and concentrate on getting the pace down (which I can do off 30mpw) and hit the marathon again when I can hit the LSR's more consistently. Marathon training has me doubting myself too much and feeling guilty over not getting the training in when the reality is I'm improving all the time and should enjoy the running more. I have race targets in my head that I know I'm capable of hitting but will take a year or 2 more at least and marathon training doesn't really help to hit these targets.

tisnotover

@Sosa, @ Gringo78,

Has pre-taper madness set in here lads or something, cos I mite join ye !?!

For the last week i've been thinking that Cork will be my first and last marathon...

I just can;t wait to get back into racing the shorter stuff for the summer, like I missed the Midleton 5-mile last week as I was doing a PMP run instead...also missed the Castemartyr 4 mile, two big local races.

Training for the marathon i've found is one hell of a commitment, 18weeks like for just one day...crazy !

Gringo78

tisnotover wrote: »

Training for the marathon i've found is one hell of a commitment, 18weeks like for just one day...crazy !

Ah, but its not just any day....its the day you run sub 3!

You see if you tell people you run, they will always ask whether you have run a marathon...you need to be able to answer yes.
Any time under 3 hours will impress them.
If they're in the know about running, well they won't be hung up on your marathon time, so Sub 3 is enough!

18 week committment for 2:55? A bit too much. For 2:45 or 2:40? Yeah, I'd put in the committment again (well, actually, I haven't put in the committment so far but you know what I mean).

2:30? To run what the average joe in the 80's could knock out on any given Sunday? I'd give a 20 week committment for that alright.

So If I run sub 3, that'll be marathon knocked on the head until I can run 10 miles in 55min or have accepted that I can't!

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

Endurance doesn't come so easily to me either, I think I'm more of a stamina runner which would mean 10k to HM being my ideal race distances. I think I'll park the marathons for a few years also and concentrate on getting the pace down (which I can do off 30mpw) and hit the marathon again when I can hit the LSR's more consistently. Marathon training has me doubting myself too much and feeling guilty over not getting the training in when the reality is I'm improving all the time and should enjoy the running more. I have race targets in my head that I know I'm capable of hitting but will take a year or 2 more at least and marathon training doesn't really help to hit these targets.

Agree with you 100%,i have knocked over a minute of my 4m,5m and 10k times this year,4 mins off my 10m time and i have serious doubts about being able to string 26.2m of 6:52 together.
I miss the intervals and tempos and regular races.
and have set those times while either training for a marathon or recovering from one,so i know i can get those times down further with no marathon training in the way.

tisnotover wrote: »

@Sosa, @ Gringo78,

Has pre-taper madness set in here lads or something, cos I mite join ye !?!

For the last week i've been thinking that Cork will be my first and last marathon...

I just can;t wait to get back into racing the shorter stuff for the summer, like I missed the Midleton 5-mile last week as I was doing a PMP run instead...also missed the Castemartyr 4 mile, two big local races.

Training for the marathon i've found is one hell of a commitment, 18weeks like for just one day...crazy !

It is crazy,you miss out on so much,and if it goes wrong on the day (which can easily happen) it seems like an utter waste of time.

Gringo78 wrote: »

Ah, but its not just any day....its the day you run sub 3!

You see if you tell people you run, they will always ask whether you have run a marathon...you need to be able to answer yes.
Any time under 3 hours will impress them.
If they're in the know about running, well they won't be hung up on your marathon time, so Sub 3 is enough!

18 week committment for 2:55? A bit too much. For 2:45 or 2:40? Yeah, I'd put in the committment again (well, actually, I haven't put in the committment so far but you know what I mean).

2:30? To run what the average joe in the 80's could knock out on any given Sunday? I'd give a 20 week committment for that alright.

So If I run sub 3, that'll be marathon knocked on the head until I can run 10 miles in 55min or have accepted that I can't!

I have no ideas of anything other than sub 3....i would much prefer to get to 27:30 for 5m and around 35 mins for 10k...which i will in the next couple of years,maybe next year.

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

I have no ideas of anything other than sub 3....i would much prefer to get to 27:30 for 5m and around 35 mins for 10k...which i will in the next couple of years,maybe next year.

You'll get those times....you've got to believe though that you can run a lot faster than that. There really is no reason why you can't continuously reduce those times by 15-20sec each year for the next 6-7 years. Even though you are in your 30's, age will actually not be a factor until you have been running for maybe 8-10 continuous years. Stick at it and you'd be surprised what you could run. Look at any of the guys on the local road race scene running 25min for 5 miles and they all got there over 4-6 years of progression (unless they were running as juniors whereby they probably were at pretty fast times on the track before they ever ran on the road).

The key is to keep training...park it for a year or two and it'll take you ages to get back to the paces you were at, nevermind getting faster.

I ran 16min for 5km when I was 24 after 6 months training (a lot of training!) so I know I should be able to hit that pace again. It keeps me motivated but I know I can never get back those wasted years!

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

There really is no reason why you can't continuously reduce those times by 15-20sec each year
The key is to keep training...park it for a year or two and it'll take you ages to get back to the paces you were at, nevermind getting faster

I hope that 15-20s is overall and not per mile !
That is doable (overall) and i would get more enjoyment out of that than a 2:45/2:50 marathon.

tisnotover

Sosa wrote: »

It is crazy,you miss out on so much,and if it goes wrong on the day (which can easily happen) it seems like an utter waste of time.

I suppose to be fair though, the block of marathon training you're doing has progressed your other times as well, where you have raced like. You learn more about what recovery really is and how it should be used between hard workouts.

The marathon will come+go, but hopefully we can dip back into the mileage base put in already and progress the shorter races for the summer.

P.S. I hope that Gringo meant 15-20s overall too !

Gringo78

yes i meant overall. take 2.5min off your 5mile time though and you are running seriously good times

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

yes i meant overall. take 2.5min off your 5mile time though and you are running seriously good times

Im at
22:18 for 4m = 5:35p
28:24 for 5m = 5:40p
36:16 for 10k = 5:50p

The 10k was the week after the 5m race and i did way to much that week,cost me 5s a mile,i reckon that day.

I only need to knock off 55s from my 5m to get under 27:30,all going well,i'll be under 28 early next year and possibly undr 27:30 in the summer.
Its possible.