Swine Flu - pros and cons

Jip

The vaccine is free.
And if you're seeing a talking chicken running around it sounds like you don't have issues with other forms of drug.

Jip

Ironic comment coming from you when you've been doing nothing but playing the man, assuming that everyone in the state is panicking but you're the only level headed person around because you know all the facts, nobody else does.

Jip

Look, you're not adding anything constructive to this discussion, there's a swine flu thread on the Conspiracy Theories forum, your posts are better suited over there and you'll find more like minded individuals.

nesf

Right, fordprefect, you're not to post in this thread again. This is a thread for parents to share opinions not a place to fearmonger or soapbox on the subject. If you want to discuss your worries please go to the Health Sciences forum and so such there.

Khannie

My wife's getting it done in the morning. I'll be glad when she's had it done.

patzer

Hi all

Just wanted to add to the discussion by providing access to some information on the European Medicines agency (EMEA) website.

http://www.emea.europa.eu/influenza/vaccines/celvapan/celvapan.html

http://www.emea.europa.eu/influenza/vaccines/pandemrix/pandemrix.html

It seems like many people have legitimate concerns, my fiance is 30 weeks pregnant and we are still unsure as to the next step to take regarding the vaccine.

Arming yourself with as much information as you can and not allowing teh pub talk to scare you into a decision one way or teh other is vital for your own peace of mind.

I do find it worrying that professionals seem to have very different opinions, on Moncrieef (Newstalk) during the week a HSE "expert" stated that the vaccine will not pass through the placenta but my GFs GP told her yesterday that they don't have any information relating to this.

Have a good look around and remember that we are in a much better position to find information now that we ever have been.

Please also note that most of the vaccine conisists of a carrier and various other ingredients that will be identical or at least very similar to the standard flu vaccine

Hope this is of some benefit

Pat

delly

So my wife and daughter got it done on Wednesday, both are asthma sufferers. That was that or so I thought. In the meantime I have heard of another GP recommending the non risk spouse should get it as well to keep the virus from entering the household. Another point of confusion relates to the HSE documentation stating that a second dose is required for full protection, but our GP said that it was only necessary for under 3's.

I have tried to contact the HSE on both points above, but have been on hold for quiet a bit and will try again later.

D rog

Also, I think I saw the WHO recommended only one dose too.

angeldaisy

My OH got the vaccine on tuesday as he is immuno-compromised and only had mild side effects, fluey symptoms overnight. Our son is in the high risk category so I will be getting him vaccinated, however I would rather / children who were at a greater risk of problems from swine flu got it first, so I will probably wait until the 2nd round of vaccinations and I will see then if I need to have it as well.
However if my son was healthy with no underlying medical problems, I don't think I would vaccinate him against it, after all I don't give him the flu vaccine?

Khannie

If money wasn't an issue I'd get the normal flu vaccine every year. I used to get it for free in my last job. It was a simple equation for them: Overall the money they saved from reduced absenteeism was more than the cost of the jabs for everyone.

Anyway, the only reason I'd consider giving it to someone that I wouldn't normally give a flu jab to is that it is worse than normal flu.

ashleey

3 of my 4 children aged 7 and under have had all of the swine flu symptoms all week. High night time temperatures of close to 40 degrees and bad cough. All the advice is let them sleep it off and stay off school and manage their temp with calpol and nurofen kids. Watch out if they recover then relapse with bronchitis requiring antibiotics. Watch lots of telly and after a week all are fine. There was no point going to the doctor as they are only testing those in the at risk group. If you are in that group discuss it with a doctor if you aren't it's just flu.

Chesty LaRue

Got my jab on Thurs morn (18wks pregnant). Arm felt a bit heavy afterwards but so far no side effects...The leaflet they gave me (i.e. HSE clinic) stated 2 jabs are required. I asked the doc on site and she said at the moment only one was needed but that could change over the coming weeks and they would contact me if this was the case..this may be a stupid question but how will they decide if a 2nd jab is needed...what cld happen over the coming weeks? Dont get me wrong I am pro-vaccine but just a bit confused with this....

Khannie

So my mrs got hers done. Her upper arm (where she got the jab) has been tender since. Other than that, nothing noticeable. Nice to know that she's immune now tbh.

Chesty: I haven't heard anything about a 2nd jab.

ebmma

Khannie wrote: »

So my mrs got hers done. Her upper arm (where she got the jab) has been tender since. Other than that, nothing noticeable. Nice to know that she's immune now tbh.

Chesty: I haven't heard anything about a 2nd jab.

takes 2 weeks or the full immunity to kick in...

I was asking about the booster shot and was told that it is something to do with Irish Medical Board wanting to give people 2 shots, but WHO says 1 is enough. So IMB will decide in the next week or so what they wanna do and people will be contacted for the booster shot.

Chesty LaRue

Checked out IMB website and it was recommended in report dated Sept 09 that 2 doses be given.
http://www.imb.ie/EN/Medicines/Pandemic-H1N1-2009.aspx
http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/human/pandemicinfluenza/66680909en.pdf

Still confused...what are they waiting to see....people getting the swine flu after one jab therein determining a need for a 2nd jab?

ebmma

Chesty LaRue wrote: »

Checked out IMB website and it was recommended in report dated Sept 09 that 2 doses be given.
http://www.imb.ie/EN/Medicines/Pandemic-H1N1-2009.aspx
http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/human/pandemicinfluenza/66680909en.pdf

Still confused...what are they waiting to see....people getting the swine flu after one jab therein determining a need for a 2nd jab?

I dunno being honest...Dr. in the HSE clinic made it sound like it's IMB just being contrary

cbyrd

fordprefect wrote: »

My apologies. I thought it said 'Swine Flu - Pros and Cons"

Seems to be just pros and propoganda. Cons are banned. Pardon me for breathing, borrow some of your air.

Over and out.

well i don't hear any useful pros or cons from what you've said in all your posts... it's been mostly how could people believe anything the hse government or anyone in charge has to say... i mean the gall of them to try to protect the nation from a form of illness that has the potential to kill the most vunerable in our society... so what if you don't want to get the jab then don't it's your decision.. but it's for everyone to make up they're own mind and to bring the likes of NAMA and such into a discussion that has nothing to do with health or well being is just a childish response to everyone disagreeing with you.
Yes you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to batter everyone elses opinion with a big plank and get stroppy. i wonder what your views would be if swine flu hit the country and the high risk people started dying and no help was offered??? i'm sure you'd be ranting about how our 'murderous hse and government' stood by and did nothing... so it really doesn't matter what views are expressed here just so long as it's yours..but i for one have had the jab and other than a sore arm i've been fine. the con being my sore arm.. or the con of getting swine flu and potentially losing my baby or complications that i cannot forsee.. i've forgotten... how many people have died from getting the vaccination??? oh yes that would be none... swine flu itself?? is it 14?? that's enough of a pro vaccine arguement for me...

Khannie

fordprefect wrote: »

My apologies. I thought it said 'Swine Flu - Pros and Cons"

Seems to be just pros and propoganda. Cons are banned. Pardon me for breathing, borrow some of your air.

Over and out.

You were told not to post in the thread again. Take a break.

angeldelight

I just saw this reported on rte.ie - a pregnant lady with no underlying conditions has died from swine flu in Ireland. I thought it was relevant to this forum

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1112/swineflu.html

Two further deaths from swine flu
Thursday, 12 November 2009 16:23

Health officials have confirmed that a pregnant woman has died from human swine flu, and that separately, a child has also died from the virus, bringing the number of deaths from human swine flu in the Republic to 16.

Watch a live swine flu briefing

The pregnant woman was from the east of the country.
Advertisement

While the woman did not have an underlying illness she was in the at-risk category of pregnancy.

The Institute of Obstetricians has previously advised that pregnant women with the virus are four times more likely to develop serious complications or be hospitalised than non-pregnant women.

It has said that all pregnant women, from 14 weeks of pregnancy to 6 weeks after giving birth, should be vaccinated against the virus.

There are currently 191 people in hospital with the virus, with 22 in intensive care.

The number of people infected with the virus in the past week is slightly down on the figure of 30,000 for the previous week.

In the North, an adult with an underlying health condition has become the 11th person to die from the virus there.

Meanwhile, the Health Service Executive and Department of Health will give their weekly swine flu update at 4pm today

tammiet

I am 34 weeks pregnant and a single mum to my 4 year old asthmatic daughter. After hearing that latest news we are both getting the vaccine tomorrow and I am seriously considering keeping my daughter out of school for 2 weeks(swine flu in her school) and both staying indoors until immune. Am I over reacting or would anyone do the same???

Carb

We got the invite for our two boys (3 & 4) yesterday. I'm really undecided at this point. MMR Jabs aside, I'm not a great believer in vacinating for every ailment that comes up. eg, the the flu vacination is offered for free in my workplace, and I've never been able to grasp the reason for young healthy people lining up to get an injection for a sickness that I've only ever had once in 29 years. Obviously for older people and people with a high risk of complications, things are different.

Apart from that pregnant woman yesterday, has there been many deaths internationally amongst people outside the high risk groups?

tallaght01

Carb wrote: »

We got the invite for our two boys (3 & 4) yesterday. I'm really undecided at this point. MMR Jabs aside, I'm not a great believer in vacinating for every ailment that comes up. eg, the the flu vacination is offered for free in my workplace, and I've never been able to grasp the reason for young healthy people lining up to get an injection for a sickness that I've only ever had once in 29 years. Obviously for older people and people with a high risk of complications, things are different.

Apart from that pregnant woman yesterday, has there been many deaths internationally amongst people outside the high risk groups?

It's about healthy people not catching it, and passing it onto others. Most people who have died from this or ended up in ICU caught it from someone who wasn't hospitalised with it.

Roughly 30% of our deaths here in Oz were in people with no risk factors. Pregnant women were at much higher risk for ending up in ICU of they caught it.

nesf

Carb wrote: »

We got the invite for our two boys (3 & 4) yesterday. I'm really undecided at this point. MMR Jabs aside, I'm not a great believer in vacinating for every ailment that comes up. eg, the the flu vacination is offered for free in my workplace, and I've never been able to grasp the reason for young healthy people lining up to get an injection for a sickness that I've only ever had once in 29 years. Obviously for older people and people with a high risk of complications, things are different.

Apart from that pregnant woman yesterday, has there been many deaths internationally amongst people outside the high risk groups?

Honestly you should read up more on the subject (and I mean that in a nice way). The problem with Swine flu as opposed to normal flu is that it kills young adults as opposed to the elderly and infants. That's what's got health authorities scared, the behaviour of the virus is abnormal. It's not normal flu, you get different symptoms and people who normally don't get sick can come down hard with it. Treating it and think of it as if it was normal flu is a very dangerous thing and it's something that's been getting more common because the doomsday mortality rates didn't materialise.

In short: the mortality rate isn't very high but the people who are dying are not the people who'd be dying if this was a typical H1N1 epidemic like we get most years. That you normally don't get the flu is absolutely no guarantee of protection against this strain.


On a scientific level (if you're interested) the virus behaves quite differently to normal H1N1. Normal H1N1 tends to "attach" in the nasal cavity and start spreading from there. This strain attaches low in the lungs and in the intestine which accounts for the level of chest and digestion issues associated with mild cases. This is a fundamental difference between normal flu and this strain, they're quite similar viruses genetically but they behave quite differently and the potential complications that result are different. On a personal level, having got it, it was nothing like a normal flu for me. I had no upper respiratory symptoms, it was all in the chest cavity with a chest infection concurrent with it. Normally if I had a flu my symptoms would be headache, nasal congestion etc on top of the general body/chest stuff which were all absent this time.

Carb

nesf wrote: »

Treating it and think of it as if it was normal flu is a very dangerous thing and it's something that's been getting more common because the doomsday mortality rates didn't materialise.

Sorry, wasn't intending to compare to normal flu. I was more giving an insight into my personal opinion on vacinations. Thanks for the detail in your post. Food for thought.

nesf

Carb wrote: »

Sorry, wasn't intending to compare to normal flu. I was more giving an insight into my personal opinion on vacinations. Thanks for the detail in your post. Food for thought.

Well vaccination is as much about herd immunity as it is about protecting the individual. The more people with immunity in a population the less widespread a disease can spread especially if those with the most social contact with others (preschool/school age children and working adults) get vaccinated. I would get vaccinations as much as to protect others than to protect myself from infectious diseases.

anle

I know there is another thread for this subject but I would like to have a thread to discuss this video

BELL TOLLING for the Swine Flu

What do you think about all this? After watching this the vaccine seems more dangerous than the flu...

Khannie

anle wrote: »

I know there is another thread for this subject but I would like to have a thread to discuss this video

BELL TOLLING for the Swine Flu

What do you think about all this? After watching this the vaccine seems more dangerous than the flu...

I've merged the threads. You can use this thread for a discussion of that video. I want to keep all the swine flu stuff together.

My 2c:

Several things bother me about that video:
1) It is several months old, so there have been quite a few deaths since then, including one of a pregnant woman in our own country recently.
2) The swine flu is novel. It kills people that would otherwise not die from a seasonal flu.
3) It bothers me that people consider some random woman on the internet (let's be clear here, she may be just taking the piss or having a laugh and you'd be none the wiser) to be a source of information possibly more valid than all the GP's in the country.
4) I didn't make it to the end. Too long to be honest.
5) My wife has had the vaccine. She's still very much alive. Who knows, maybe she'd be dead by now if she hadn't.

Overall, do I think the flu vaccine is risk free? No. But let's be clear about this: If you have not had the vaccine you are at risk right now.

So there is risk involved one way or the other. To me the vaccine is very very very obviously a lower risk course of action, especially when you're in the at risk groups.

anle

Khannie wrote: »

I've merged the threads. You can use this thread for a discussion of that video. I want to keep all the swine flu stuff together.

My 2c:

Several things bother me about that video:
1) It is several months old, so there have been quite a few deaths since then, including one of a pregnant woman in our own country recently.
2) The swine flu is novel. It kills people that would otherwise not die from a seasonal flu.
3) It bothers me that people consider some random woman on the internet (let's be clear here, she may be just taking the piss or having a laugh and you'd be none the wiser) to be a source of information possibly more valid than all the GP's in the country.
4) I didn't make it to the end. Too long to be honest.
5) My wife has had the vaccine. She's still very much alive. Who knows, maybe she'd be dead by now if she hadn't.

Overall, do I think the flu vaccine is risk free? No. But let's be clear about this: If you have not had the vaccine you are at risk right now.

So there is risk involved one way or the other. To me the vaccine is very very very obviously a lower risk course of action, especially when you're in the at risk groups.

Hi Khannie,

Honestly, by merging the threads you killed any chance for me to get other people's opinion. But I guess that is your right to do so. In page 5 nobody is gonna read and answer this. You just said that people don't go to the end of long things.
Another thing is the fact that you didn't watch the whole video. At the end the lady gives you some numbers for how many people die every ear in Europe from the normal flu: 40,000 in good years, 220,000 in bad years. An example of one woman dying from swine flu is very tragic but statistically doesn't mean much.
You realize that you already made a decision to get the show for your wife and you and now you feel the need to defend this decision so you are already biased in this discussion.
Maybe i am a bit cynical but I don't believe much from what politicians and officials tell me on the news. I believe that this kind of people have the mindset to make a profit at the risk of my health as long as they can't be accused. And huge profits seem to be involved in this vaccine.

Anyways thank you for your answer, I really appreciate the effort.

I would've liked other people opinions too though...

CathyMoran

Im pregnant and got the Pandemix vaccine and do not regret it - I have had regular flu once before and have tried to get vaccinated every year since as while I was fine it was not a nice week of my life. I am a diabetic but my reasons for getting the regular vaccine were that I did not see the point in being ill. The age profile for the swine flu is different for the regular flu and it seems to hit pregnant women quite badly in some cases when they get it - and I did not want to risk that. I did look into the vaccine in great detail before getting it, have a degree in science and was not scared by the medical papers...not getting it looked like a much greater risk.

CathyMoran

I dont personally think that the links given are the most reliable, one of them does not even work for me. What scares me is the idea of women and children not getting the vaccine and getting seriously ill as a result. If you could link to some valid scientific reaearch from a reputable journal then I would give more creedence.