Becoming a Real Runner

outforarun

menoscemo wrote: »

I'll consider logging if the training is going well

I for one am hoping your training goes well then.

theboyblunder

Ahh just lash the training in the log meno. The whole point is to get motivation and feedback. I personally pledge to keep the criticism to a minimum and have it purely club-based

Seriously, good luck with the buildup, we might be able to overlay sessions again....

metamorphosis

Nice carching up on your log meno

menoscemo

So i said I would pop up an update if all was going well . Just about achieved this I guess.

Week 1 (30th Dec- 5th Jan)
1 set of 6 x 20 second strides, 1 LT Run (3.3 miles @ 6:25/mile) and a 20 mile long Run in PP with DrQ and AMK @ 8 min/mile were the highlights of the week. I was off work so found it easy to get the runs in. the week included 2 double days and no days off. 72 miles total

week 2 (7-12 January)
The previous 3 weeks had been build weeks (60-65-72 miles) so this was a planned step back. 3 sessions this week: 8 x 600m (6 min/mile pace) in the club on the tuesday. A light fartlek run on the thursday and Saturdays Long run (16 miles) included Marlay Park run at the end (19:55 or 6:24/mile). The intention of the park runs is to get a bit of HMP at the end of a long run (this is the 3rd one I have done like this, 2 others in December). Total miles for the week: 51 miles One planned rest day.

Week 3 (13-19 January)
Came into the week a bit tired. Definitely overdid the session on the previous 'easy' week :rolleyes:.
Main session was 6 miles @ 160 bpm. 160bpm is a conservative goal MP effort (I ran Blackpool marathon at this effort a few years ago in 3:10). I reckon I can run a Marathon nowadays at around 165 but if I can get my 160 pace down to 6:50/mile that would be great
I haven't had a working HRM for a few years until I got my new Forerunner220 at xmas. While I found the effort for this run very easy (just switch on HR on garmin screen and try to keep it between 159-162) on analysis after the run there was a fair slip off in the pace. The average pace was 7:10/mile but the last 3 were 7:11, 7:18, 7:19.
Long run was a very hilly 22 with the stews and Claralara. Av pace 8:15, felt great for this. Also 2 stride sessions in easy runs. Total: 72 miles no days off.

Week 4 (20-26 January)
I totted up my monthly mileage and realised I was on course for 290+ which is probably too big a jump from December so i decided to take rest days both on Monday and Friday, especially given I had a very long run at the weekend. Tuesday was another 160 BPM Marathon effort run. This time I did 8 miles. There was already a noticeable improvement on the previous week. Av pace had improved by 5 seconds/mile to 7:05/mile but more importantly the drift off in pace had disappeared (last 3 miles were: 7:09, 7:08, 7:07). Was pretty buzzing after this, perceived effort at 160 was very easy. I used the same 3 mile loop as week before but it was windier this week than last.

Long run at the weekend was the EOI Longwood Marathon (co meath). Plan was to take it nice and handy and finish with lots in the tank. Course was a 2.2km loop followed by 8 loops of the local 5k race course. I started off in a big bunch chasing 3:30ish but on the first 5k loop myself and Baldy Molloy drifted off the front of the group and spent the rest of the race alone (just lapping backmarkers). Enjoyed the run bar the torrential hailstone storm in lap 3 (I had decided to wear shorts and t-shirt- no hat or jacket ) and the fact it was very windy the whole way. Baldy slowed slightly the last few laps as he had no runs over 15 miles before the race....I was happy to stick with him as there was no-one behind and no-one in front to chase. With 300m to go however we spotted Claralara bearing down on us so we had to up the pace to hold position (she had just sniped the female leader to claim the win). Finished in 3:18:38 which I was pleased with as it felt very easy. HR was a steady 152 (so i have at least 10 bpm to play with if I was racing) and it actually dropped a touch over the last 2 laps so I am pretty happy the Marathon endurance is there already as there was zero HR drift. 61 miles for the week (2 rest days)

week 5 27th Jan-
I would have given the month 9/10 up to this point, but something had to go wrong . Planned to do 10 miles @ 160 on Tuesday but I quickly realised I wasn't 100% recovered from the weekend as I couldn't get the HR up to 160 without feeling uncomfortable. I ditched the effort after 1 mile and resolved to do it again on Thursday (yesterday), however I picked up a headcold on Wednesday and inadvertently twisted my ankle on that evening's run. Decided to take the prudent option of not running on Thursday. Thankfully all ok today and I did 6 miles easy with 6 x30 second hills prints. Looking forward to tomorrow's long run. (20 miles with the last 6-7 steady @ the Stew's PMP). 28 miles for the week so far (likely to hit just over 50 for the calendar week). I'll just call this a step-back week and aim to run 3x 70+ weeks at the start of February.

month|2012 Run days|Miles|2013 Run days|Miles|2014 Run days|Miles
January|28/31|290.1|25/31|243|27/31|268
February|27/29|283.2|26/28|237
March|24/31|204.7|26/31|234
April|23/30|187.8|24/30|156
May|29/31|240|27/31|187
June|20/30|176|28/30|211
July|30/31|309.2|??/??|220
August|28/31|257|??/??|140
September|26/30|227|??/??|209
October|25/31|171|??/??|203
November|27/30|201|28/30|241
December|28/31|210|28/31|242
Total|317/365|2757.8.5|311/365|2524|27/31|268

statss

super update. just one question, what % of your heart rate max is 160BPM?

menoscemo

Run at least 260 miles.

Get the biggest week up to close to 80 miles.

2 x 10 mile runs @160 BPM. (I will keep these runs by HR until march at which time I will revert to goal pace)

2 x HMP sessions: 3x 2miles and 4x 2miles. Goal pace is 6:25/mile (sub 1:25) and the race is Bohermeen HM on 2nd March.

2 x 20 mile Long runs and Donadea 50k sub 4hrs (7:40/mile). The Donadea goal is not set in stone as I don't want to have to bust a gut to run it (neither will I be tapering) but it will be nice to run this time 'easily' PB is 4:08 from a few years ago.

Keep doing hill sprints and strides at least once a week, maybe the odd fartlek. If feeling really good I might do the odd club session on Thursday night (normally 12 x 400m) to keep in touch with speed.

I'll be keeping the same weekly structure as January which is:
Monday 5-7 miles easy or recovery (easy is 8-8:20/mile; recovery is 9 min/mile). I never look at Garmin on these runs, just let the body dictate pace.
Tuesday MP (160bpm) or HMP session- 12-14 miles total
Wednesday easy/recover 5-7 miles
Thursday 9 miles home from work with light fartlek/strides/hill sprints Or Club session (400s)
Friday 7 miles into work on empty. This is a hilly route with a net 500ft+ gain over 7 miles. Possible double day- sometimes do 4-5 miles in the evening.
Saturday Long run
Sunday Easy/recovery 5-6 miles. If I have already hit the weekly miles, take a rest day.

The schedule above is flexible and days will be switched when it suits or is needed.

menoscemo

statss wrote: »

super update. just one question, what % of your heart rate max is 160BPM?

Max is 186-187 so 160 is about 85%. As I say i ran Blackpool a few years ago at 160 av and I had no taper for the race and it felt easy (wasn't training for a marathon). I haven't worn a HRM for a marathon since but I reckon I can average closer to 165. I don't tend to get any HR drift so the HR I start out at is the same as what i finish at (barring hills, wind, slowing down or speeding up).

statss

menoscemo wrote: »

Max is 186-187 so 160 is about 85%. As I say i ran Blackpool a few years ago at 160 av and I had no taper for the race and it felt easy (wasn't training for a marathon). I haven't worn a HRM for a marathon since but I reckon I can average closer to 165. I don't tend to get any HR drift so the HR I start out at is the same as what i finish at (barring hills, wind, slowing down or speeding up).

that's bang on so, was just checking as mine is 197 so 170 will be my target HR when I get to that level in the HADD cycle. You are in great condition, your weekly schedule looks pretty sweet, do keep us updated, the 2 x 10milers @ 160 will be very interesting.

menoscemo

statss wrote: »

that's bang on so, was just checking as mine is 197 so 170 will be my target HR when I get to that level in the HADD cycle. You are in great condition, your weekly schedule looks pretty sweet, do keep us updated, the 2 x 10milers @ 160 will be very interesting.

HADD would suggest you can get your Max HR-20 for a marathon if you are aerobically conditioned (this is one of the reasons I say 165 is possible for me). So if 170 is a step up for you on previous Marathons it is a good training target but be prepared for it to be higher in the race.
TBH I would never have HR displayed on the Garmin in an actual race as:
a) It can be inaccurate
b) you might surprise yourself and be able for a higher HR
c) if you have a goal time you have to hit a certain pace regardless of what your HRM shows :P

Tom Joad

Not sure how but I've never seen this log before :eek: About to pour a class of wine and read it through - Friday night sorted

statss

menoscemo wrote: »

HADD would suggest you can get your Max HR-20 for a marathon if you are aerobically conditioned (this is one of the reasons I say 165 is possible for me). So if 170 is a step up for you on previous Marathons it is a good training target but be prepared for it to be higher in the race.
TBH I would never have HR displayed on the Garmin in an actual race as:
a) It can be inaccurate
b) you might surprise yourself and be able for a higher HR
c) if you have a goal time you have to hit a certain pace regardless of what your HRM shows :P

yep if I recall correctly HADD does say not to rely on HR in the actual race itself. ( not that I heeded that advice in Raheny :rolleyes: )

Ososlo

statss wrote: »

yep if I recall correctly HADD does say not to rely on HR in the actual race itself. ( not that I heeded that advice in Raheny :rolleyes: )

sorry for butting in (but this log could do with the extra activity anyhow;)), but did you run Raheny according to your hr statss?

statss

Ososlo wrote: »

sorry for butting in (but this log could do with the extra activity anyhow;)), but did you run Raheny according to your hr statss?

I didn't no, but I did check it half way through the race, it was about 90% and above my lactate threshold, I couldn't remember at the time if this was "a good thing" half way through a race of 5 mile distance.(being beyond lactate threshold, e.g would lactic acid build in the legs forcing me to slow down before the distance was complete)...I let it distract me when I should have been concentrating on running hard, pace probably suffered and sure my last mile was my quickest so I defo could have been going quicker in miles 2 & 3!

statss

Tom Joad wrote: »

Not sure how but I've never seen this log before :eek: About to pour a class of wine and read it through - Friday night sorted

I remember reading through it for the first time....lots of references to chippers and takeaways if I recall correctly.

Tom Joad

statss wrote: »

I let it distract me when I should have been concentrating on running hard, pace probably suffered and sure my last mile was my quickest so I defo could have been going quicker in miles 2 & 3!

What he means is he only sped up when I passed him

AuldManKing

That's a super couple of updates Meno, an easy 3:18 marathon!!

Great month and nice goals for Feb.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Meno we should try look at hitting the PP over the next few weeks for a 20 with some work in it. Will give you a shout to sort.

menoscemo

Davis Big Limo wrote: »

Meno we should try look at hitting the PP over the next few weeks for a 20 with some work in it. Will give you a shout to sort.

Sounds good, but I have Donadea in 2 weeks so it will probably have to be the weekend of the 22nd?? You doing Bohermeen Half?

digger2d2

menoscemo wrote: »

Run at least 260 miles.

Thank Digger for taking my jacket from me at the EOI Marathon

Thank Digger for fetching my drink for me at the EOI Marathon

Thank Digger for driving my car home from the EOI Marathon after I'd had too much cake

Get the biggest week up to close to 80 miles.

2 x 10 mile runs @160 BPM. (I will keep these runs by HR until march at which time I will revert to goal pace)

2 x HMP sessions: 3x 2miles and 4x 2miles. Goal pace is 6:25/mile (sub 1:25) and the race is Bohermeen HM on 2nd March.

2 x 20 mile Long runs and Donadea 50k sub 4hrs (7:40/mile). The Donadea goal is not set in stone as I don't want to have to bust a gut to run it (neither will I be tapering) but it will be nice to run this time 'easily' PB is 4:08 from a few years ago.

Keep doing hill sprints and strides at least once a week, maybe the odd fartlek. If feeling really good I might do the odd club session on Thursday night (normally 12 x 400m) to keep in touch with speed.

I'll be keeping the same weekly structure as January which is:
Monday 5-7 miles easy or recovery (easy is 8-8:20/mile; recovery is 9 min/mile). I never look at Garmin on these runs, just let the body dictate pace.
Tuesday MP (160bpm) or HMP session- 12-14 miles total
Wednesday easy/recover 5-7 miles
Thursday 9 miles home from work with light fartlek/strides/hill sprints Or Club session (400s)
Friday 7 miles into work on empty. This is a hilly route with a net 500ft+ gain over 7 miles. Possible double day- sometimes do 4-5 miles in the evening.
Saturday Long run
Sunday Easy/recovery 5-6 miles. If I have already hit the weekly miles, take a rest day.

The schedule above is flexible and days will be switched when it suits or is needed.

FYP

menoscemo

digger2d2 wrote: »

FYP

Thanks digger

W.B. Yeats

N

Thanks for the shout-outs last Sunday- I was swimming in a sea of lactic acid for the last one so couldn't even acknowledge you properly.

menoscemo

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

N

Thanks for the shout-outs last Sunday- I was swimming in a sea of lactic acid for the last one so couldn't even acknowledge you properly.

No worries Ross, great time btw. You seem to have stepped up a level....you could really see you were digging in. After that and the Na fianna 5k pic, it's quite obvious you are a sufferer

menoscemo

So since the last post things have pretty much gone to Pot . I don't think I hit any of my february goals and just about managed 2 session for the month; 1 MP session (9 miles at about 6:55 wind assisted) and 1 HMP session (3 x 2 miles @ 6:22 pace).
I did the Donadea 50k but didn't feel great on the day. Running 7:35 pace felt pretty tough in the muddy course and I ended up dropping out after 6 laps (18.5 Miles). In retrospect my HR for the entre run was 160 bpm which I had been using as a Marathon paced effort up to then, so it was well over 2hrs at marathon effort and could be considered a session in itself. The only positive from the race is that I lasted a lap more than Jackyback and 2 laps longer than I did the year before.

February was also a month of niggles which prevented a lot of hard training. Firstly the old hip injury flared up after a bout of hill sprints (have done no hill sprints and few strides since ) and then I had a seriously sore foot after Donadea. It was obviously caused by the stabilizers coming uder stress in the muddy Doandea loops. That menat I missed a session the week after the 50k.

At the start of March the plan was to run Bohermeen HM in 89:xx as part of a 20 mile run with 13.1 @ MP. I arrived at the startline in what should have been a fresh state having had an easy week in the build up. I was late and only managed a 2 mile warmup. Pace felt fine at the start but Krusty's pacing group got a bit of a gap at a waterstation and I struggled to catch back up. Myself and Davemcmahon formed a group behind the peleton and I felt we would reel them in but it never happened. At 9 miles I was totally screwed (HR up to 10k levels) and had a monster stitch and dropped off the thing completely. I told Dave to push on and he did (hitting his 1:29:xx target) and jogged home pretty dejected in 1:32:xx. Didn't bother trying to make up 20 miles so settled for 15.
I had pretty much resigned myself to forgetting about racing London at that point but then ended up on my death bed with Manflu for the next 5 days which in a way was a relief as I had an excue for the poor run. The only problem was I had 5 days of no running followed by 5 days of jogging short distances before the legs started feeling in any way normal again. That is not exactly Ideal 5-6 weeks out from a goal marathon :rolleyes:

After that I actually put in 2 solid weeks of training before a 2.5 week taper started. I Managed 2 x 20+ mles at a steady 7:30 pace and 2 decent MP sessions (10 miles straight and 13 miles broken into 5,4,3,1).

It has definitely been a struggle to hit desired MP on any of my MP sessions, only just about managing it on the last 13 mile one (but with a fade from start to finish), so I am not really sure where this leaves me. It's certainly not the training block that I wanted going into my first serious sub 3 attempt :pac:. I have found I have realy struggled to recover from hard sessions, needing almost 4 days before I can face another session or long run. Must be getting old. I really don't know how oldies like KC and Beepbeep do it

The only positives I can find is that I am at least as good a shape as last year when my training was also crap, probably even worse in fact. I managed 3:04 then while feeling in 3:02 shape aerobically on the day (having lost 2+ minutes over the last 6 miles due to cramp). Given that my Long runs have been much better than last year (I could barely manage to break 9 minute miles and ran no 20+ mile runs in the last 7 week ) hopefully the legs will be a bit more resilient this year and I can avoid having to slow up.

With that in mind I don't really want to put a definite time pressure on myself for next sunday. I just plan to run as best I can on the day. I'll go out and run the first 10k at what feels like a sustainable effort and have a look at the watch at that point. Bearing in mind that the first 10k in London is very fast, If I am at 6:4x pace after 10k I will concentrate on digging in and trying to hold pace for as long as I can; but if not I reckon I will just try to run as fast as I can and see what happens. Looking at guys like AMK having done pretty much a perfect training block and being much faster than me but still failing to nail sub 3 makes me think I haven't a chance; but you never know ;):):)

month|2012 Run days|Miles|2013 Run days|Miles|2014 Run days|Miles
January|28/31|290.1|25/31|243|27/31|268
February|27/29|283.2|26/28|237|26/28|252
March|24/31|204.7|26/31|234|25/31|216
April|23/30|187.8|24/30|156|5/6|41
May|29/31|240|27/31|187
June|20/30|176|28/30|211
July|30/31|309.2|??/??|220
August|28/31|257|??/??|140
September|26/30|227|??/??|209
October|25/31|171|??/??|203
November|27/30|201|28/30|241
December|28/31|210|28/31|242
Total|317/365|2757.8.5|311/365|2524|82/96|772

RayCun

You still have plenty of miles in the bank, and plenty of experience to draw on. Rest up this week, let the crowd carry you, and negative split it home.

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

You still have plenty of miles in the bank, and plenty of experience to draw on. Rest up this week, let the crowd carry you, and negative split it home.

I sometimes look at guys on the Sub 3 support thread asking if they can go sub 3 off a 1:21 half with envy.
If I can go sub 3 off a 1:32:4x half it would be pretty epic

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Fvk it i am in the same boat. I really don't see the point of either us going around for a jolly and posting a 3.02/3 for a small pb. Go out at sub 3 pace and be prepared for the wheels to come off and a major blow up. I think i would be happier with that outcome than not giving the sub 3 a proper bash.

A small wager of two pints will keep us both honest (last one home buys them):)

AuldManKing

I think lack of experience cost me in Manchester, that's something you have plenty of.

Gavlor

AuldManKing wrote: »

I think lack of experience cost me in Manchester, that's something you have plenty of.

I am very curious to see what you would do differently. After limerick I knew I'd have to get serious about training, after dublin I realised that it's all in the hands of the gods!

Meno, I think you will do it based on your amount of work over the last few years. You know not too read too much into that half, you've sauntered around 90 minute hm's before.

Experience of the course will also stand to you

menoscemo

Davis Big Limo wrote: »

Fvk it i am in the same boat. I really don't see the point of either us going around for a jolly and posting a 3.02/3 for a small pb. Go out at sub 3 pace and be prepared for the wheels to come off and a major blow up. I think i would be happier with that outcome than not giving the sub 3 a proper bash.

A small wager of two pints will keep us both honest (last one home buys them):)

Don't read into it that I am not going to give sub 3 my best shot. If it's on it's on. If I am still there at 20 miles I'll be prepared to hurt don't, worry.
I have done the kamikaze before in Berlin 2011 and it hurts I was falling off the pace and maxing out my HR by 10 miles there and it took until mile 17 until I gave up the ghost (already 2 minutes off goal pace). I'm just saying I will know by 10k if I even have a chance of sub 3. I know how these things are supposed to feel at that stage and how they are not...

BTW you are on for that bet. I can never resist a wager

menoscemo

AuldManKing wrote: »

I think lack of experience cost me in Manchester, that's something you have plenty of.

I'll be interested in hearing what you mean by that. We were speculating on our 'long run' on sunday that you might have pushed a bit hard early doors, especially between HM and mile 20??