Becoming a Real Runner

chinguetti

So you update everyday until Patrick's Day and then i sign up.

Sample log entry:

Today i ran x miles. it was sunny/wet/windy. I considered Plato's teachings and if flumps are a good basic for a new food group. Also i shouted at people who got in my way 4 times:D

menoscemo

chinguetti wrote: »

So you update everyday until Patrick's Day and then i sign up.

Sample log entry:

Today i ran x miles. it was sunny/wet/windy. I considered Plato's teachings and if flumps are a good basic for a new food group. Also i shouted at people who got in my way 4 times:D

That's too far away, I'm bound to lose focus. Pick another date.

RayCun

chinguetti wrote: »

i don't do ultras so what would i know.

you know not to do ultras, which puts you ahead of the game

chinguetti

menoscemo wrote: »

That's too far away, I'm bound to lose focus. Pick another date.

You can't say deal and then change terms so my offer is withdrawn.

menoscemo

chinguetti wrote: »

You can't say deal and then change terms so my offer is withdrawn.

:mad: I suspected your offer stank of BS.

chinguetti

Thats a bit harsh. You claim that you wouldn't have the focus to update daily for about 2 months when you did it for a year. Or do you mean that you couldn't be bothered updating everyday as people will read into things that you write too much and over analyse your running?

So - due to the focus bit - do you have a training plan for the Ultra or are you just running for the sake of it most of the time? And thats a serious question.

Mr Slow

chinguetti wrote: »

are you just running for the sake of it most of the time?

menoscemo

Mr Slow wrote: »

:rolleyes:

chinguetti wrote: »

Thats a bit harsh. You claim that you wouldn't have the focus to update daily for about 2 months when you did it for a year. Or do you mean that you couldn't be bothered updating everyday as people will read into things that you write too much and over analyse your running?

So - due to the focus bit - do you have a training plan for the Ultra or are you just running for the sake of it most of the time? And thats a serious question.

Harsh, maybe but that's too big a hoop to make me jump through (I thought you meant update every day for a week or two); whether it's focus, commitment or whatever word is needed I am not gonna promise to do it for two months.

So unless you decide to start up a log because you want to, I guess I am going to have to kcontent myself with just the musings of Puddins Tobin for a while longer

Mr Slow

In all seriousness I scan over posts with multiple workouts, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If you post one at a time you will get people asking questions, if you don't want people questioning your training or interacting with you why post on a public forum?

chinguetti

menoscemo wrote: »

Harsh, maybe but that's too big a hoop to make me jump through

No panic, i ain't going to make you jump through any hoops. However Puddins might but mainly cause he likes the obstacle course that would entail. Sure he nearly attacked Santa when he came down the chimney the other week:p

ronnie085

Hey meno, just catching up now, beat me fairly easy at the end of the 1000 mile, may up my game this year :cool:. Your flying at the moment

menoscemo

ronnie085 wrote: »

Hey meno, just catching up now, beat me fairly easy at the end of the 1000 mile, may up my game this year :cool:. Your flying at the moment

Thanks man, I had been biting my fingernails wondering how many miles you had put in over the christmas . Problem with coming 4th is that there is not not much higher to go. I'd be very happy to finish 4th again this year...

menoscemo

Wednesday
Lunch Time 4.1 miles @ 8:55. Just a little recovery run before lunch. Left the car in to get cleaned so took advantage and did a lap of tymon while it was getting done.
Evening
6.2 miles Again around Tymon with Aimman. We got absolutely hammered with the wind and hail stones, 2 laps, half of which were far from pleasant each time, until we made thecover of the trees. On the positive side my legs were much fresher than a few hours before which shows that recovery runs really do work . My knee swole up for some reason towards the end of the run, but was absolutely fine an hour later
10.3 miles total for the day

Thursday
6 mile easy, up to RQ's office. The wind is still terrible, the first 3 miles it was tough to move and just about held 8:40 pace. The last 3 were down/across wind and 8 min/mile felt like recovery pace.
2.3 miles back home at recovery pace after sports massage. My legs were in bits, hopefully they'll benefit from this.
8.3 miles total for the day


WTD 4 days running 36.9 miles

The plan is something short and easy tomorrow and two long runs at the weekend which should get me close to 80 miles for the week for the first time. I'm taking advantage of still being off work this week and making hay while the sun shines. I can't see myself going past 65 miles most other weeks.


2011|No. of days Running|Miles|2012 |No. of days Running|Miles
January|28/31|256.3|January|5/5|44.9
February|24/28|236.9|||
March|23/31|221.9|||
April|22/30|176.4|||
May|25/31|198.5|||
June|24/30|180.6|||
July|28/31|269.4|||
August|23/31|244.6|||
September|22/30|200|||
October|26/31|187.5|||
November|28/30|210.1|||
December|24/31|194.3|||
Total|297/365|2576.5|Total|5/5|44.9

shels4ever

menoscemo wrote: »

Wednesday
Lunch Time 4.1 miles @ 8:55. Just a little recovery run before lunch. Left the car in to get cleaned so took advantage and did a lap of tymon while it was getting done.
Evening
6.2 miles Again around Tymon with Aimman. We got absolutely hammered with the wind and hail stones, 2 laps, half of which were far from pleasant each time, until we made thecover of the trees. On the positive side my legs were much fresher than a few hours before which shows that recovery runs really do work . My knee swole up for some reason towards the end of the run, but was absolutely fine an hour later
10.3 miles total for the day

Thursday
6 mile easy, up to RQ's office. The wind is still terrible, the first 3 miles it was tough to move and just about held 8:40 pace. The last 3 were down/across wind and 8 min/mile felt like recovery pace.
2.3 miles back home at recovery pace after sports massage. My legs were in bits, hopefully they'll benefit from this.
8.3 miles total for the day


WTD 4 days running 36.9 miles

The plan is something short and easy tomorrow and two long runs at the weekend which should get me close to 80 miles for the week for the first time. I'm taking advantage of still being off work this week and making hay while the sun shines. I can't see myself going past 65 miles most other weeks.


2011|No. of days Running|Miles|2012 |No. of days Running|Miles
January|28/31|256.3|January|5/5|44.9
February|24/28|236.9|||
March|23/31|221.9|||
April|22/30|176.4|||
May|25/31|198.5|||
June|24/30|180.6|||
July|28/31|269.4|||
August|23/31|244.6|||
September|22/30|200|||
October|26/31|187.5|||
November|28/30|210.1|||
December|24/31|194.3|||
Total|297/365|2576.5|Total|5/5|44.9

How do you find running after a massage, the last few times I went for one I wouldnt have been able to walk never mind run

menoscemo

shels4ever wrote: »

How do you find running after a massage, the last few times I went for one I wouldnt have been able to walk never mind run

Wasn't a bother shels, legs felt very relaxed but it was ony 2 miles at 9 min/mile pace.

Edit to say, when i said the legs were in bits, I meant before the massage. There were loots of knots, especially in my calfs.

menoscemo

Friday
3.6 miles @8 min/mile. The plan was 6 or 7 at this pace, but I wasn't enjoying it so I cut it short
Saturday
20.2 miles@ 8:40 av pace. Nice morning, met with Aimman, Pistol, Oisin, Digger and CL in the park and did 10 with them at 9 min/mile average. Headed off with Oisin for the 2nd 10 and the pace sped up a bit, we did these in 8:20 average with the last 3 all in 7:xx. Kind of a progression run and one that I hope will stand to me. I plan to do most of my LSR's like this in the future, speeding up to near MP by the end. Really enjoyed this run.

Sunday
13.9, muddy and Hilly miles. Met with Aimman, CL and Digger at boharnabreena resevois and after a loop of the mudy trails we headed up into the Dublin Mountains before going back to the car park at the lower resevoir. I left the lads at 9.5 miles and did an extra loop of the muddy resevoir trails to bring the mileage up a bit. Enjoyed this run again and felt better as I went along. Put in my fastest few miles at the end again.

Weekly total: 7 days running 74.6 miles

Didn't quite make the 80 in the end but I think it is still my biggest ever mileage week

2011|No. of days Running|Miles|2012 |No. of days Running|Miles
January|28/31|256.3|January|8/8|82.6
February|24/28|236.9|||
March|23/31|221.9|||
April|22/30|176.4|||
May|25/31|198.5|||
June|24/30|180.6|||
July|28/31|269.4|||
August|23/31|244.6|||
September|22/30|200|||
October|26/31|187.5|||
November|28/30|210.1|||
December|24/31|194.3|||
Total|297/365|2576.5|Total|8/8|82.6

claralara

Here, what's the story with double runs?! I'm read a couple of old threads and conflicting opinions etc. There will be more than a couple of times between now and Connemara that it just won’t suit me to get 10/12 miles done after work. So I was thinking it'd be perfect to do 5/6 into work (which will be downhill and handy enough) and then 5/6 home (which will be uphill obviously). It's so much more efficient as it kills two birds with one stone commuting wise and will possibly allow me to have some me-time in the evenings (even an hour in front of the box!) as work is going to be mental. But I've read that double runs can just be junk miles…Is there anything in that?! Help? Advice? I'm sure you've done some research I could pikey…

RacoonQueen

The only benefit that double runs have is that you're doing the second one(which should be the longest) on tired legs. edit: unless they're both specific sessions on their own i.e easy and intervals

If it's a 'just to get the miles in' sorta run it'd be alright but if it's meant to be a long run you're messing it up by splitting it as you're refueling the body during the day and not giving yourself the chance to train through dwindling fuelstores.

claralara

RacoonQueen wrote: »

The only benefit that double runs have is that you're doing the second one(which should be the longest) on tired legs. edit: unless they're both specific sessions on their own i.e easy and intervals

If it's a 'just to get the miles in' sorta run it'd be alright but if it's meant to be a long run you're messing it up by splitting it as you're refueling the body during the day and not giving yourself the chance to train through dwindling fuelstores.

Thanks RQ.

Say the plan this week is Rest / 10 / 5 / 10 / rest / 18 / 14 - so how much of a yay or nay (so to speak) would it be to do rest / 5 + 5 / 5 / 4rec + 6 harder / rest / 18 / 14 - it's to get the weekly mileage in really. And I know I'm capable of running for 10 miles so it's not like I have to break them up. It’s not in lieu of the weekly long runs.

ecoli

claralara wrote: »

Thanks RQ.

Say the plan this week is Rest / 10 / 5 / 10 / rest / 18 / 14 - so how much of a yay or nay (so to speak) would it be to do rest / 5 + 5 / 5 / 4rec + 6 harder / rest / 18 / 14 - it's to get the weekly mileage in really. And I know I'm capable of running for 10 miles so it's not like I have to break them up. It’s not in lieu of the weekly long runs.

Double runs can have alot of benefits such as

* Boosting your metabolism
* Allowing your body to recover more sufficiently
* Allowing your body to be able to handle more mileage due to better recovery
* Allow you to add more quality to your running while still getting the miles in


As long as you are getting your two long runs in at the weekend I think you could benefit from these and maybe even get few extra miles in (maybe do 2*6 miles as opposed to 10)

Also perhaps add the 5 mile easy single as a 5 mile tempo for strength to benefit you with the two doubles around it should allow your body sufficient recovery to add the quality work

You dont have to do doubles every week because you are aiming for the ultra and they become less specific as you target longer races but if they mean you can get in a tempo run once a week while still getting the miles in i think they could be very beneficial

menoscemo

claralara wrote: »

Here, what's the story with double runs?! I'm read a couple of old threads and conflicting opinions etc. There will be more than a couple of times between now and Connemara that it just won’t suit me to get 10/12 miles done after work. So I was thinking it'd be perfect to do 5/6 into work (which will be downhill and handy enough) and then 5/6 home (which will be uphill obviously). It's so much more efficient as it kills two birds with one stone commuting wise and will possibly allow me to have some me-time in the evenings (even an hour in front of the box!) as work is going to be mental. But I've read that double runs can just be junk miles…Is there anything in that?! Help? Advice? I'm sure you've done some research I could pikey…

Yeah Deffo, do the run into work and then back from it. So much more convenient than doing 10-12 after work.

I agree with Ecoli, as long as you are getting 2 long runs at the weekend, you'll be getting plenty of endurance and won't lose out on doing 2 x 5/6 as aopposed to 1 10 mile run. maybe incorporate it into you plan, like if you have 10 including 5 @ MP, maybe run the 5 in easy and run the 5 home at MP (or vice versa).

claralara

ecoli wrote: »

Double runs can have alot of benefits such as

* Boosting your metabolism
* Allowing your body to recover more sufficiently
* Allowing your body to be able to handle more mileage due to better recovery
* Allow you to add more quality to your running while still getting the miles in


As long as you are getting your two long runs in at the weekend I think you could benefit from these and maybe even get few extra miles in (maybe do 2*6 miles as opposed to 10)

Also perhaps add the 5 mile easy single as a 5 mile tempo for strength to benefit you with the two doubles around it should allow your body sufficient recovery to add the quality work

You dont have to do doubles every week because you are aiming for the ultra and they become less specific as you target longer races but if they mean you can get in a tempo run once a week while still getting the miles in i think they could be very beneficial

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah Deffo, do the run into work and then back from it. So much more convenient than doing 10-12 after work.

I agree with Ecoli, as long as you are getting 2 long runs at the weekend, you'll be getting plenty of endurance and won't lose out on doing 2 x 5/6 as aopposed to 1 10 mile run. maybe incorporate it into you plan, like if you have 10 including 5 @ MP, maybe run the 5 in easy and run the 5 home at MP (or vice versa).

Thanks guys, appreciate the good advice.

RacoonQueen

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah Deffo, do the run into work and then back from it. So much more convenient than doing 10-12 after work.

What's the purpose of the 12 mile run in the schedule though? If you're splitting a specific session you're not doing the session the way it's meant to be done. You're not going to do 3x600m in the morning and 3x600m in the evening if you're meant to be doing 6x600m like.

ecoli

RacoonQueen wrote: »

What's the purpose of the 12 mile run in the schedule though? If you're splitting a specific session you're not doing the session the way it's meant to be done. You're not going to do 3x600m in the morning and 3x600m in the evening if you're meant to be doing 6x600m like.

I can see where you are coming from regarding this and menoscemo's example of splitting a specific session like 10 w/5 MP would be a case where I would say it completely defeats the purpose of the session however I think if the schedule calls for as Claralara mentions 10/5/10 I think you get away with it as these sessions are General Aerobic runs and by running doubles you will probably get away with doing 6+6, 5, 6+6. If she is running these at 8 min + pace it means she has 2 50 min runs a day and anything over 45 is sufficient to develop aerobic capacity. Over time she can build these to 8+8 and ultimately increase mileage without increasing the stress on the body. As long as she is getting the specific back to back long runs in on top of these it will not compromise Ultra training. Remember on these days the Long run isn't the specific session they are simply GA runs

menoscemo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

What's the purpose of the 12 mile run in the schedule though?

She made the schedule so she can always change it to 6 + 6.;)

Miles in the legs are all good IMO, especially when ultra training. If doing doubles allows you to get the miles in the legs without increasing the chances of stress (both to the body and the mind) then go for it.

menoscemo

I've been paying a bit for the increased mileage this week
Monday 9th
5.3 miles recovery (8:49 pace); just a nice easy Jog around Tymon. Met a clubmate after a mile and had a good chat around with him. With about half a mile to go I felt a stiffness in my right knee- the same one I got last wednesday when jogging with Aimman (it wore off within half an hour after the run). I'd felt it a bit on both long runs at the weekend at one point but both times it went away and was fine after the run. On monday it swole up and lingered a bit forseveral hours after the run

Tuesday and Wednesday
Enforced rest. I texted the physio on Tuesday and got an appointment for wednesday. Took the day off on Tuesday for fear of doing any damage. I had a scope on the knee a few years ago before starting running so the fear is always that that old injury would come back.
Anyway Physio confirmed on wedensday that it was just a mild ITB injury, nothing too serious. He worked away at the band and told me to get back to normal the next day- crisis averted!! He told me the fast stuff would feel good but it might flare up again doing long or slow runs but to play it by ear.

Thursday
Given the physios advice I went down to the club and did the interval session.
12 x 400m with 1 minute recoveries. I went out with the top group who were supposed to be doing 85's (but actually did 82's) I hung to the back of them for 7 then faded off on the 8th so I joined the B group for the last 4
Reps went: 81, 83, 81, 85, 83, 83, 86, 88, 88, 86*, 88, 85

*Messed up this one and didn't record it.

8.1 miles total

Knee was fine on the reps and theres no swelling now but the hamstring got a bit tight on the cooldown and I had to stop to stretch it out. I am sure it is also ITB related. I have been rolling it out for the last 20 minutes and will do again later.

I'm not used to getting any injuries so I'm already getting very frustrated

I am supposed to be doing 2 long runs at the weekend, but will have to play it by ear. I'll definitely do a short easy run tomorrow and decide from there.

WTD:2 days running 13.4 miles

2011|No. of days Running|Miles|2012 |No. of days Running|Miles
January|28/31|256.3|January|10/12|97
February|24/28|236.9|||
March|23/31|221.9|||
April|22/30|176.4|||
May|25/31|198.5|||
June|24/30|180.6|||
July|28/31|269.4|||
August|23/31|244.6|||
September|22/30|200|||
October|26/31|187.5|||
November|28/30|210.1|||
December|24/31|194.3|||
Total|297/365|2576.5|Total|10/12|97

Marthastew

menoscemo wrote: »

I've been paying a bit for the increased mileage this week


I'm not used to getting any injuries so I'm already getting very frustrated
]

Best of luck and fingers crossed, hopefully it'll clear up. Wise move to take a couple of rest days. I'm sure you'll be fine tomorrow

menoscemo

Marthastew wrote: »

Best of luck and fingers crossed, hopefully it'll clear up. Wise move to take a couple of rest days. I'm sure you'll be fine tomorrow

Yeah it's frustrating, they're just niggles but I guess my body is telling me to take it easy for a bit.

chinguetti

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah it's frustrating, they're just niggles but I guess my body is telling me to take it easy for a bit.

And the question is: Will you listen to it?

You should listen to your own advice and take it easy for a couple of days.

menoscemo

chinguetti wrote: »

And the question is: Will you listen to it?

You should listen to your own advice and take it easy for a couple of days.

Yeah, I'll listen. Despite unjustified my bad press my history of injuries and illness is pretty non-existant
I must be doing something right.