Only one of Irish and English be mandatory for the Leaving Cert. Thoughts?

Aard

On this thread (about the viability of the Irish language) in the Politics forum, http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055711352, I suggested as part of a solution that only one of Irish and English be mandatory for the Leaving Cert. I.e. you could choose to study either Irish, or English, or both.

Assuming everything on the respective courses stays as-is, what do yous, as people sitting the LC, think of this? I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this, especially those who are still in school.

b69

I'm not in school but i would think that most people would pick English which would lead to the decline of Irish. I personally would pick both or Irish

barahsug

The decline in Irish is mostly due to people being forced to do it in school as it is, taking all the fun out of it, so giving people the option not to do it wouldn't do any more damage. People either love the language or they hate it. I loved Irish but I've been completely put off it after 2 years of the Bhean Óg and the Cearrbach mac Cába and Cathal Ó Searcaigh's poetry. I still would have chosen it over English though

TheCandystripes

both subjects are a waste of time. i don't hate irish, in fact i wish it was the spoken language of ireland but what a load of pc rubbish. the languages act:rolleyes:

randylonghorn

barahsug wrote: »

The decline in Irish is mostly due to people being forced to do it in school as it is, taking all the fun out of it, so giving people the option not to do it wouldn't do any more damage. People either love the language or they hate it. I loved Irish but I've been completely put off it after 2 years of the Bhean Óg and the Cearrbach mac Cába and Cathal Ó Searcaigh's poetry. I still would have chosen it over English though

I'm inclined to agree. Make it optional, re-write the syllabus, in fact overhaul the teaching of Irish completely through all levels, and while the number of students taking it might decline, the number actually learning the language to a usable level would (imo) increase.

TheCandystripes wrote: »

both subjects are a waste of time.

Actually, the number of people I know with postgraduate degrees who cannot write simple grammatical comprehensible English is a constant source of amazement to me.

How exactly to solve the problem is another question ...

Klingon Hamlet

Simple solution: Irish voluntary

English: more realistic. Should be grounded in real-life requirements, i.e.:

Doing a CV

Writing a review

Letter-writing

etc..etc...

When I was in school the above were seen as part of creative writing, which in itself was very much marginalised.

Also, having everyone read the same book and churn out similar answers to identical questions is simply boring, unfair and useless when it comes to 99% of normal life.

As for Irish, it's dying because most teachers hammer it into you without really exploring fun stuff like Irish myths in their native language. Make it fun, and people will want to do it. Keep it mandatory and vanilla, and people will continue to hate it.

Dante

As much as I dislike Irish, IMO school wouldn't be the same without it. The banter to be had hating Irish is part of the school experience.

rainbowtrout

It's an interesting one. The main problem I can see with there being an option is that student's written English could possibly become worsewith lack of exposure to prose, poetry, novels, compositions, any form of text really that will improve and expand their vocabulary. This could be a problem for anyone who plans on going to third level.

Having said that I suspect a lot of people would still opt for English if it was a subject requirement for most college courses, like a foreign language is for most NUI courses. And while it would create more work, it wouldn't be impossible to run an English entrance exam for students intending on entering a third level course similar to the maths entrance exams that some of the colleges run after the LC results have come out.


Actually now that I think about it more, the English/Irish choice essentially has been in existence for years. All of the Institutes of Technology require 5 passes in the LC including English or Irish, not both. This does tend to favour English as the chosen language for the most part though.

I don't think there would be quite the same fallout if a student chose English only as there would be far less courses requiring it as compulsory (NUI entry aside) and those that need it would have probably taken it in the first place. There would probably be more genuinely interested students taking the subject if it was optional.

Lawliet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Simple solution: Irish voluntary

English: more realistic. Should be grounded in real-life requirements, i.e.:

Doing a CV

Writing a review

Letter-writing

etc..etc...

Ew no! Shakespeare and (some) of the poetry are the only interesting parts of the course.

jumpguy

What's being done with Irish now:

You're meant to learn a new foreign language from the age of 4. At this age, many of us are just getting to grips with English. I can remember in primary school I just tried to ignore it.

By the time you come to secondary and realise you need it for exams, you don't even know the basics. Now you're expected to learn poetry and stories in Irish! You consider "I'm in the mood for dinner tonight" the height of complicated Irish. That's what you have to show after 8 years of primary learning.

Most people just give up then.

What should be done:

Do not teach it in primary. Start teaching it in secondary school, like German or French, and make it about learning vocab, sentence structure, NOT mundane poetry and short stories. Best of all, make it optional. That way there won't be the disdain of having something you don't like forced down your throat. You might argue that "sure, it's the same with maths!" Well, if the state wants Irish to thrive and live on, they want students to like the subject and be interested in it. They're going about it the completely wrong way.

I say make it compulsory for Junior Cert, and optional for Leaving Cert.

Organise free/cheap Irish evening classes, give grants to those going to study at the Gaeltacht, make the courses more fun and engaging.



Of course, this will never happen. Us under 18 have about as much say in government policy as The Vatican has in Saudi Arabia.

Shane101

I'd do both as at the end of the day u need english and as for Irish Im Irish so I believe I should at least have a basic grasp of my native language. IMO

DancingQueen:)

If Irish was thought more like French, where you focused more on speaking it and writing opinions on things i'd like it a lot more and would pick it instead of english. But at the moment i think the Irish course is too much work, i don't mind learning about irish history but its the poems and stories that are the worst!
But i can't see that happening anytime soon

FridaysWell

Teach Irish, but put alot less emphasis on it and change the ways it is taught. It shouldn't be mandatory. It's an archaic language I'm sorry to say. I used to love Irish, I got an A in the JC but now 'is fuath liom Gaeilge'! Its a frustrating, annoying and utterly useless language! Higher Level Irish is way too hard for it's own good, out of my year of 125 people we only got 1 class at honours because of how pointless it is. I'm only doing it at higher because I'm doing OL Maths.

Grrr!!:mad::mad::mad: Change the way it is taught, and the bloody course!

Slan

DC09

English only.

You wont be speaking Irish for the rest of your life, although the poetry and old texts that have to be read are a bit much, the English essay writing (despite being depressing) would probably handy in college.

randylonghorn

jumpguy wrote: »

What's being done with Irish now:

You're meant to learn a new foreign language from the age of 4. At this age, many of us are just getting to grips with English. I can remember in primary school I just tried to ignore it.

The general concensus though is that the earlier you start a second language the easier it is to learn, so I'm not sure that's the problem.

In other countries, it is quite normal to teach a second language from the early days of primary school.

Again, I would say we need to tackle how Irish is taught ... though I would acknowledge that improvements have been made in recent years.

jumpguy wrote: »

Organise free/cheap Irish evening classes, give grants to those going to study at the Gaeltacht, make the courses more fun and engaging.

Absolutely. Rote learning never inspired love of any subject. The most successful teachers of any subject, and especially of languages, are those who make them enjoyable to learn.

Fad

Had I the choice I wouldn't have done English, Leaving Cert English did nothing to help my standard of English (If anything, Boards has taught me more about grammar, punctuation and spelling, than a class ever could......).

I also prefer Irish.........

Aard

I would have done only Irish, myself. I found the HL English course way too time-consuming to warrant the 100 points, so I did OL instead. The Irish course, on the other hand, was easier, so, if only one were compulsory, I'd choose that.