overnight vistits withe father

lillybelle01

hi all i need some advice i'm a lone parent and my daughters father is looking for overnight visits. I have no problem with this but i do have issues with the arrangements, he wants to take her to stay with him and his girlfriend (whom i have never met and know nothing about) in a rented house. I would prefer he took our baby to his parents house on his own with no female overnight visitors. He has not been going out with his girlfriend that long (less than a year) our daughter is 13 months and spends little enough time on her own with her daddy, I think the over night visits need to be with just her daddy and family.
He thinks i'm attacking his relationship, which i'm not, I just think its too soon for our daughter to be involved in our respective relationships ( i have a boyfriend who never stays over in my home and most of the times my daughter is in bed when he calls) as i don't think its right. Any advice or comments would be welcome

Klingon Hamlet

lillybelle01 wrote: »

hi all i need some advice i'm a lone parent and my daughters father is looking for overnight visits. I have no problem with this but i do have issues with the arrangements, he wants to take her to stay with him and his girlfriend (whom i have never met and know nothing about) in a rented house. I would prefer he took our baby to his parents house on his own with no female overnight visitors. He has not been going out with his girlfriend that long (less than a year) our daughter is 13 months and spends little enough time on her own with her daddy, I think the over night visits need to be with just her daddy and family.
He thinks i'm attacking his relationship, which i'm not, I just think its too soon for our daughter to be involved in our respective relationships ( i have a boyfriend who never stays over in my home and most of the times my daughter is in bed when he calls) as i don't think its right. Any advice or comments would be welcome

Tell him exactly this. He should understand and agree.

lillybelle01

tried and was like talking to a wall

Klingon Hamlet

Try mediation, it's the best way to resolve any conflict / dispute / disagreement. You're very good to encourage him having yours and his child overnight, and I think he should be more respectful of your wishes.

Wacky alternative: meet the girlfriend? Maybe you might feel different? (Just an idea)

lillybelle01

meeting his girlfriend is not an option for many reasons really. Still i wouldn't feel comfortable with my child staying over night with her dad and his girlfriend until their relationship is more established i don't think it would be fair to our daughter in the long run.

Eoineo

I can understand your reservations but if you put conditions on the time he spends with his dd then you are going to continue to hit this brick wall.

He's her dad, assume he wants only the best for her. You've expressed your opinion to him and trust that he will do what is in her best interests. You can't tell him that your bf is coming over to your house when your dd is bed and then on the other hand tell him that his gf can't be around when he has his dd. Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical?

seamus

I agree with Eoineo actually. Assuming that you trust him enough to look after the child's interests, then you shouldn't get to dictate what he does when has access any more than he can dictate what you're allowed to do when you have the child. This is not your child alone - the child is of both of you - so you don't get to dictate.

You would both have some basic rules about the child - when she goes to bed, what she can and can't eat, what she doesn't like, and so on. This is no different - whatever rules you enforce on him, you must enforce on yourself.

Your concerns are valid, but ultimately you cannot deny his access rights on this basis. You should explain your concerns to him but allow the access anyway. As I say, it's not just *your* child, so you don't get to lay down the groundrules all on your own. Mediation might be the best - do you have a good enough relationship with his family to perhaps talk to his mother and relay your concerns? If you do go down that road be *very* open about it and don't look like you're trying to get around him by using his mother. Insist that she be a mediator in the conflict and not someone on any particular side.

bumpintraining

Just my opinion; I wouldn't expect any grown man living in a rented house to go back to sleep in his parents house the ngts that he has your daughter......unless he is totally incompetent.
It may also be an inconvience to his parents to have their son and grandchild stay at their house, not saying the paternal grandparents dont love their grandchild just may not want the cries in the early morn.

As for his relationship; if he is with this woman a year and living with her; the chances are he is committed to that relationship, (i.e its not a fling)
Althouigh you may not be comfortable with it; I don't see anything wrong with him wanting his daughter to stay at his home.
I personally wouldnt have a prob once he's not having marathon sex sessions on the ngt your child stays. :eek:

MPB

The issue if I have it right is the introducing new people to the child. People who may come and go. I don't have kids of my own but have many friends who have and some of them are single parents and I've seen both sides to this coin.

Lets say you are cool with him having his gf there and your child gets to know her. All fair and well. So your child builds a relationship with his gf. Then say they split up. What do you tell the child? Its very hard to turn around and tell a child they cant see x or y ever again. They're too young to understand. I'm using his gf as an example but the same applies to your bf. Have seen it happen some of my friends and its been horrible for all involved especially the kids.

Now I've also seen the opposite and to be fair once both parties understand the reasons behind it it seems to work well. When u get an idea where things are going with your fella or the father gets an idea where things are going with his gf then ok bring them into the childs life.

You are both well entitled to see other people and everyone should be happy at the end of the day. Someone pointed out that your bf comes over to your house but I think its worth pointing out that your child is shaded from this as shes in bed so its not an issue. From what you say though his gf is around while the child is awake. Maybe its cause he feels he needs someone around when the childs there. Which I can understand. I'd freak out I think if I was left alone with a child. But if thats the case can he not ask his mum to call over or his sister or someone in the family.

I dont think what your asking is out of the ordinary but I suspect he may not understand where your coming from. Suggest talking to him and explain in detail what you mean and see how that goes.

lillybelle01

thanks for the comments i think i have been taken up wrong on a couple of points i do not refer to her as my daughter she is *our* daughter. I am concerned with introducing people from outside our family into my daughters life on a daily basis i have no problem with his girlfriend spending some time with our daughter but i don't want her to be involved in everything our daughter does with her daddy. I am not dictating i am trying to do what's best for our child and that is trying to have her daddy build a bond with his daughter that doesn't involve his gf so she feels secure with her dad in case he and his gf do split up.
On the point of its more than just a fling i once owned a house with this man and we had a serious enough relationship to plan a child!! maybe it is more than a fling, but right now its too early to tell i just want to protect my daughter in all this and i am not a hypocrite I do ensure my daughter is kept out of my relationship as she doesn't need to be involved at this stage.

LegacyUser

Lillybelle01.
From reading you post you seems to be unfairly assessing his situation. You seem to be judging his relationship as on a par with yours. But this is not the case. You and your bf do not live together. He is still at the "visitor to home" stage of the relationship. This is not the case for your daughters father. He is co-habiting with his new partner. It is asking alot of him to give up his primary place of residence along with his partner in order for YOU to be confortable with overnight stays. Do you not think that this is you trying to put up extra hoops for him to jump through to "earn" this time with his daughter.
Also as stated above you are assuming that it would be ok for both your daughter and ex to move back home at these intermittent times. That is going to cause a massive amount of stress in that house. Firstly the stress of the ex moving from his primary place of residence. Stress from living in the family as it is now probably doubling the amount of residents in the house (assuming only the grandparents are currently there). Then there is the stress caused by "Mother knows best" in this case meaning the grandmother. These are all extra stresses the child will pick up on.
Do you think that it is exceptable when/if you and your current bf decide to move in together, that your ex can demand that you have to move home to your parents house the nites she is not with him?

ash23

guest09128734 wrote: »

Lillybelle01.
From reading you post you seems to be unfairly assessing his situation. You seem to be judging his relationship as on a par with yours. But this is not the case. You and your bf do not live together. He is still at the "visitor to home" stage of the relationship. This is not the case for your daughters father. He is co-habiting with his new partner.

To be fair to the OP, when you are childs primary carer, the issue of co-habiting with someone is more of a minefield than when you only have the child occasionally.
If I had no kids or only had my child one night a week, I would consider moving in with someone after a few months. I have my child six nights a week though so I would only be thinking about them meeting after 6 months. We'd need to be looking at getting married before I'd live with them. It's a whole other kettle of fish.

It is asking alot of him to give up his primary place of residence along with his partner in order for YOU to be confortable with overnight stays. Do you not think that this is you trying to put up extra hoops for him to jump through to "earn" this time with his daughter.

Not really. It's asking his girlfriend to take a step back and let him spend some quality time with the child without her being present at all times. The logistics are unfortunate (in that they are co-habiting).

Do you think that it is exceptable when/if you and your current bf decide to move in together, that your ex can demand that you have to move home to your parents house the nites she is not with him?

Again, thats a different story but he would well be within his rights to voice his concern.

OP, I can see where you are coming from. I was with my ex for 6 years and he raised my daughter from a baby. She calls him daddy etc.

Within weeks of us breaking up (which had a serious impact on our daughter) he had introduced his "new" girlfriend to her. My daughter was devestated.

I didn't interfere initially but my daughter became very jealous of the new gf and was always saying that daddy preferred "mary" to her and that she was sent in to watchtv while him and her stayed in the other sitting room etc.

It was then that I had to put my foot down. He only has her one night a week, collects her at 7pm and brings her home at 8am so really he only gets 2 hours in the evening and one in the morning. She shouldn't have to share this time imo. She also doesn't like the girlfriend (so she told me) and she was getting upset seeing daddy kissing someone who wasn't mammy (bear in mind we had only split a matter of weeks at that stage).


So now the girlfriend stays clear. I have told him that if he was willing to see my daughter more often then the girlfriend being around wouldn't be an issue but he doesn't want any more access than he has, so for now, it works out ok.

MojoMaker

OP, you won't want to hear this I suspect, but these reservations you're feeling is part of a control requirement that unwittingly to you is rearing its head. Hate to say as it's hard to take but you need to let go and try not to dictate rules to your daughter's father as to what he can/cannot do, where he goes, who's with him etc. It is his responsibility alone to behave appropriately and to take care of your daughter respectfully and with a clear conscious and with integrity at all times.

Just because you have made a decision to operate this way with your own relationships is no reason to enforce teh same beliefs onto anyone else unless contravention of those beliefs led the child into danger - and even then you would want to be sure of that and not just "a feeling".

It is incredibly hard for mothers, espcially new mothers to let go sometimes and realise that a father is more than capable of looking after a child with integrity. This does fade thank God, you'll look back in years and laugh at this I'd say

Lab_Mouse

MojoMaker said it all really.

You will just have trust the dad to 'do the right thing' with regards his daughter.

Also at some stage you and the father will probably enter other long term relationships and yes the child will have to meet them and hopefully get on.

Im a seperated father myself and having seen my child get on with mine and the mothers new partners its really no big deal.Kids are a lot more savvy than you think.

Hope you get it sorted without to much aggro between the two of you's

nesf

Honestly, you have no right to tell him that his gf cannot be around when he has your (plural) child than he would have to tell you that your bf can't be around when your child is there. They are cohabiting, she'll be around that's just how things are. Asking him to take the child to his parents for the night, purely because his gf won't be there isn't a reasonable request.

lillybelle01

again thanks again for the comments all of you that are parents how inclined would you be to let your child stay overnight in a house with three people you don't know.
I am not placing sanctions on him he has alreday been denied over night visits in court and also gaurdianship was denied this will give you an indication of how things have gone so far. The court won't allow him over night access but i want this to go ahead.
This is not control this is to do with what is best for our daughter!!!
And i agree with the co-habiting i couldn't move in with some one now cause i would have to think of my daughter that is all i am asking him to do is not have our child involved in his personal life so much. I don't think that is assking too much!

Nevyn

If the court deemed that his living situation is not suited to overnights why are you trying to make him do them?

MojoMaker

We've not been given that information tho. For all any speculation is useful for one could suggest that the subject of overnight access at the time was subtely yet vigorously opposed and the child's mother may be attempting to put that right now, yet at the same time dangling the "favour" carrot which could give one good reason in one's own mind to attach rules or conditions to this access.

Stranger things have happened and the court-appointed primary care givers do hold all the aces which for some people is an inordinate sense of control which is correspondingly inordinately difficult to give up sometimes, especially when cast in the seemingly benevolent position of primary decision-maker. Not saying that's the case here but we don't know and have no way of proving.

Look at it another way. In a creche a child makes a strong bond with the designated care assistant in their room. A few months later the child is switched rooms and inherits a new care assistant. Psychologically if this was deemed harmful to the child the practice would be altered but as any creche manager will tell you it's part of the philosophy of introducing and acclimatising to a changing environment - and the relationships that are formed and that subsequently change in that transition all play their part in the development cycle of the child.

Eoineo

lillybelle01 wrote: »

again thanks again for the comments all of you that are parents how inclined would you be to let your child stay overnight in a house with three people you don't know.

If she is in the care of her father then that's his responsibility, not yours. He has to act in her best interests. If my dh took our ds away overnight and was staying in a house with others I wouldn't be concerned in the slightest as he is the responsible parent. You previously stated he was living with his gf - how come now there are 2 others in the house you don't know?

lillybelle01 wrote: »

I am not placing sanctions on him he has alreday been denied over night visits in court and also gaurdianship was denied this will give you an indication of how things have gone so far. The court won't allow him over night access but i want this to go ahead.
This is not control this is to do with what is best for our daughter!!!

Yes it is a matter of control. If you had no concerns about overnights at the court stage then you should have said as much. The court would have taken your opinion on board and granted overnights. You can't decide to give him overnights with his child and then put your conditions on the time he spends with his child. You say you're not treating the child as a possession but by putting your own conditions on the time he spends with the child you are. Sorry if it hurts but that's the truth.

lillybelle01 wrote: »

And i agree with the co-habiting i couldn't move in with some one now cause i would have to think of my daughter that is all i am asking him to do is not have our child involved in his personal life so much. I don't think that is assking too much!

It is, you are not even in a relationship with him. He is under no obligation to follow your requests (instructions) wrt his living arrangements or otherwise. You cannot make him follow the same path as you.

IMHO the more you continue along the road of trying to get him to take the access under your conditions the more hassle you are going to have. Take a step back and think about it.

lillybelle01

Thaedydal wrote: »

If the court deemed that his living situation is not suited to overnights why are you trying to make him do them?

at the time we went to court things were very bad we had no set in stone visit times he had stopped paying maintenance and then two weeks before court demanded a paternity test, i had to go to court as i wanted our daughter to get to know her father and also i needed help supporting her. as things have settled down and we have got in to a routine we wanted to include more access with out going to court again as we would both have to pay solicitors.

LeoB

I think the O.P is correct to have concerns. She wants stability and security for her child. Maybe her partner should look at it from her point of view. She will be left to pick up the pieces IF his relationship ends with his gf. He also has a duty of care to the child.

nesf

LeoB wrote: »

I think the O.P is correct to have concerns. She wants stability and security for her child. Maybe her partner should look at it from her point of view. She will be left to pick up the pieces IF his relationship ends with his gf. He also has a duty of care to the child.

Yes, however it is not correct for one parent to dictate terms to the other for overnight visitation unless the other parent is being negligent. He does have a duty of care to the child but it is up to him how to carry out this duty not the mother of the child, again assuming he is not being negligent. Such are the complications of joint custody.

amdublin

Who is this third person in the house the op is referring to???

I am just wondering at what point the OP will dictate to her ex that he can introduce his girlfriend. What are her parameters for deciding his relationship is serious. 1.5 yrs? 2 yrs? If they got engaged at Christmas would that be okay with her? What I am trying to say is that it is unreasonable of the mother to impose her views and opinions on her ex's relationship.

As for the whole bonding with the girlfriend and then they may break up scenario I think this is just an excuse/smokescreen for her her to again foist her opinions on to the ex. Admittedly the bonding/breaking would not be an ideal situation but (a) she does not know if this will definitely happen (b) if it does happen - cross that bridge when it comes to it (c) in creches, staff leave/change all the time. Children deal with it.

OP, I am sorry but I think you are being unreasonable. Either allow him overnight access or don't. But quit with the smokescreen/excuses and making things difficult for him.

LeoB

nesf wrote: »

Yes, however it is not correct for one parent to dictate terms to the other for overnight visitation unless the other parent is being negligent. He does have a duty of care to the child but it is up to him how to carry out this duty not the mother of the child, again assuming he is not being negligent. Such are the complications of joint custody.

Someone has to be in control in a situation like this where feeling run deep and the welfare of a child is top of the agenda. tThis is not joint custody is overnight access. Judging from posts where he decided he wanted a test before they went to court leaves me to think there is a lot of bad feeling and this is not good for the child. .

I think the mother is right, Eoineo makes some good arguments but on each one I would side with the mother who appears to have stability as her main objective for the child. Which is vital. Its not enough to say its his responsibility when the child is with him. If its only one night and he wants whats best for the child its no harm for his new gf to take a backseat for a few hours. If I were seperated there is no way my chilren would stay with my partner unless things were very steady and I was happy with them.

As she is the main carer she is right to demand things are very settled, she will be left to pick up the pieces when he has his feet up with his g/f.

Just wonder have we all the facts?

amdublin

LeoB wrote: »

As she is the main carer she is right to demand things are very settled, she will be left to pick up the pieces when he has his feet up with his g/f.

But who has the right to define what is "very settled"?

He is living with his girlfriend.

At what point is the OP going to dictate to him whether his relationship is "settled" enough or not?

Is there a point in time ie. they are now going out 2 years so it is okay. Somehow I don't think there is a black and white rule like that when it comes to people.

Maybe she should think about meeting the girlfriend in order to alleviate any of her soi-disant fears?

Eoineo

The unfortunate thing is with a separated parenting relationship is that a settled life for a child doesn't often happen. You have to deal with what you have and imho it's extremely important to allow the child to build a relationship with their absent parent.. Also sooner you get started on overnights the better for a young child, once they are older it's far harder to establish from the child's point of view.

I'm not sure that meeting the new gf would solve the OP's concerns. As the mother she is always going to have concerns about who her child spends time with and especially how another woman (in a relationship with the child's father) is introduced to her child. It's totally normal but hard to deal with.

It's easy for us all to comment when we don't have the whole story and I suspect it's not being given here.....

LeoB

Eoineo wrote: »

The unfortunate thing is with a separated parenting relationship is that a settled life for a child doesn't often happen. You have to deal with what you have and imho it's extremely important to allow the child to build a relationship with their absent parent.. Also sooner you get started on overnights the better for a young child, once they are older it's far harder to establish from the child's point of view.

I'm not sure that meeting the new gf would solve the OP's concerns. As the mother she is always going to have concerns about who her child spends time with and especially how another woman (in a relationship with the child's father) is introduced to her child. It's totally normal but hard to deal with.

It's easy for us all to comment when we don't have the whole story and I suspect it's not being given here.....

Cant agree more with your last sentence.

While I agree you have to deal with various things the mother as primary carer imo is the main player.

The situation must be awful for anyone concerned but it can be a positve thing if both parents can be at one for the childs sake

Eoineo

I guess the over-riding feeling I have is that it would be a pity to prevent overnights from happening simply because the OP doesn't want her ex's girlfriend around the child.

LeoB

Eoineo wrote: »

I guess the over-riding feeling I have is that it would be a pity to prevent overnights from happening simply because the OP doesn't want her ex's girlfriend around the child.

Yeah.

Mr. Presentable

This boils down to another case of the father having no rights. How come the OP gets to be judge/jury/executioner?

LeoB

nipplenuts wrote: »

This boils down to another case of the father having no rights. How come the OP gets to be judge/jury/executioner?

No it does not imo. I would be totally opposed to her if it was.

The case seems a little messy. Like everyone else the most important person in this is the child. The mother expressed concerns which I as a male agree with, bearing in mind I am not sure we have the full picture.