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overnight vistits withe father

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    #32
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    LeoB wrote: »
    If I were seperated there is no way my chilren would stay with my partner unless things were very steady and I was happy with them.

    Thank Christ in that case that we have a judicial system that does not allow these kind of arbitrary personal decisions to take effect.


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    #33
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    I think it is a shame that we dont' have a system which will asses the 'home' conditions of both parents and say if they are suitible for the child/ren.


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    #34
    LeoB
    Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭LeoB


    MojoMaker wrote: »
    Thank Christ in that case that we have a judicial system that does not allow these kind of arbitrary personal decisions to take effect.

    I want what is best for my kids, just like the op. Its not "arbitrary personal decisions". If I were the "offender" I would expect my wife to do the same.


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    #35
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    MojoMaker wrote: »
    Thank Christ in that case that we have a judicial system that does not allow these kind of arbitrary personal decisions to take effect.

    Do we? That's news to me.


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    #36
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I think it is a shame that we dont' have a system which will asses the 'home' conditions of both parents and say if they are suitible for the child/ren.

    Oh no no no no. The state ****s up enough as it is without stretching its incompetent arms into family life.


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    #37
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I think it is a shame that we dont' have a system which will asses the 'home' conditions of both parents and say if they are suitible for the child/ren.

    I totally agree with this. As I said, I don't allow my exs new partner to have access to my child. For many many reasons.
    The first mention I heard of her from him (when we were still together) was about how she had OD'd at a festival.

    She also hates me. Can't imagine why :D. Basically my ex left me for her but was undecided for a while. Cheated on me with her and then her with me. (I was an idiot for going near him but breakups will do that to people).
    Anyway, I can imagine her throwing a strop if my daughter so much as mentioned my name. My ex isn't allowed to see me, speak to me, text me or talk to me about anything other than the child. I passed on a number to him for a repair man once, by text, she went through his phone and forbid him from ever texting me again :rolleyes:

    My daughter is my whole world and I am hers. He has very little interest in my daughter other than the occasional visit and he lives nearby.
    I invited him to see her christmas morning and he declined. I said he could have her over christmas and he declined.

    So, in my personal opinion, I think I am totally right to keep my impressionable 6 year old away from a drug taking, insecure, jealous individual who hates her mother.
    But hey, thats just me ;)


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    #38
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    LeoB wrote: »
    I want what is best for my kids, just like the op.

    Yes, however formalising this into a legal rule removes the right of parents to be able to act otherwise when they hold a differing opinion.

    We all would agree on the extremes of good and bad households for a child to be in but there is a large grey area where there will be disagreement and really in my opinion it should be left to the two parents involved to decide so long as there isn't a genuine threat/risk to the child's health involved.


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    #39
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    nesf wrote: »
    Yes, however formalising this into a legal rule removes the right of parents to be able to act otherwise when they hold a differing opinion.

    We all would agree on the extremes of good and bad households for a child to be in but there is a large grey area where there will be disagreement and really in my opinion it should be left to the two parents involved to decide so long as there isn't a genuine threat/risk to the child's health involved.

    I think though, the problem arises when one person only sees the good in their new partner and the other can see the bad.
    I trust my ex with my daughter so long as he is on his own. I wouldn't trust him to have certain friends or his new partner there when she is there overnight as he would be easily persuaded to do things I deem inappropriate.

    For eg, a couple of years ago, he was late collecting my daughter as he went somewhere with the gf, knowing it would make him late. I had an appointment and he texted me at 5pm to say he would be 15-30 mins late. I replied that I had an appt and had to leave now and he replied "sure leave her there, I'll be there in a while". She was 5 at the time! :eek:

    I had to make him promise after that, that he would never leave her alone when he had her as he thought it was perfectly acceptable to leave her alone for up to 30 minutes in order to facilitate my own needs. He would also think nothing of having mates around for beers and drugs (beers, no problem. Drugs, no way!) while my daughter is staying.

    So I prefer that he has her on nights he is working and alone.
    That way he is unlikely to act like an idiot and put my daughter at risk.


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    #40
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    ash23 wrote: »
    I think though, the problem arises when one person only sees the good in their new partner and the other can see the bad.
    I trust my ex with my daughter so long as he is on his own. I wouldn't trust him to have certain friends or his new partner there when she is there overnight as he would be easily persuaded to do things I deem inappropriate.

    For eg, a couple of years ago, he was late collecting my daughter as he went somewhere with the gf, knowing it would make him late. I had an appointment and he texted me at 5pm to say he would be 15-30 mins late. I replied that I had an appt and had to leave now and he replied "sure leave her there, I'll be there in a while". She was 5 at the time! :eek:

    I had to make him promise after that, that he would never leave her alone when he had her as he thought it was perfectly acceptable to leave her alone for up to 30 minutes in order to facilitate my own needs. He would also think nothing of having mates around for beers and drugs (beers, no problem. Drugs, no way!) while my daughter is staying.

    So I prefer that he has her on nights he is working and alone.
    That way he is unlikely to act like an idiot and put my daughter at risk.

    That's kind of my point though, he'd put her at risk because he's irresponsible with her so you need to place boundaries.


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    #41
    lillybelle01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭lillybelle01


    thanks for all the comments the other 2 people i don't know are the people who live in his house share that he and his gf live in. Again i do not dictate i simply want to do what's best for my daughter.
    Yes things have been bad between me and my ex there is a lot to the story but i do not bring it in to our parenting relationship if it is not relevant.
    I would not want my child staying with anyone i don't know.
    I also i don't mind his gf being introduced to our daughter she is there all the time when my ex has access.
    I take on board that i would have an issue with anyone else playing mammy to my daughter.
    But I do not know this girl i will never be introduced to her. She behaves very childish towards the situation we are in she forbade my ex attending his daughters first birthday party because she didn't want him to spend any time with me, she was invited but my ex couldn't bring her as he is afraid i will tell her bout all the times he has behaved in appropriately to me and all the times he has been texting and calling me That have nothing to do with our daughter. he has been cautioned by the guards and told he is not to text me or call me unless it is to do with our child. (all of this has happened while they have been together).
    I am not trying to control the situation i would just like him and him alone to concentrate on our child if we go ahead with overnight visits.


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    #42
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    lillybelle01 wrote: »
    thanks for all the comments the other 2 people i don't know are the people who live in his house share that he and his gf live in.

    This is the only thing thats relevant, not all the nasty things he did, as to be honest I'm a believer in it takes two.
    I would only have a problem with the other 2 lodgers not the girl friend as it's not for you to decide who he can and can't date. Does he even know who the other lodgers are, are they friends of his or are they just lodgers and he doesn't really have a clue who they are. If it's the latter not in a million years would I let my child over for an overnight.


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    #43
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    Im a father of three children that I've been raising on my own since 2000. My ex-wife threw me out in Feb of 2000 and refused to let me see our children. She accused me of drug taking and having friends that were of little moral fibre shall we say. I had to have drug tests every Monday and Friday till October 2000. In early October the courts awarded her the house, car, savings acc, etc. On the 31 October she put our children into a taxi with only the clothes they were wearing and told them they were going to live with my parents.
    The OP is the first woman in years that reminds me of my ex wife. The OP's claims about her ex's girlfriend really remind me of the FALSE claims that were made about my friends. Her claim that my friends were not stable is a bit of a joke really as she herself committed suicide four years ago.
    To put it simply she made accusations about me and my friends that were completly untrue but the same accusations could be made about her and be completly true.


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    #44
    SarahMc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭SarahMc


    He sounds like a fairly cr@p boyfriend, but nothing you have said indicates he is a bad dad, or does not have his child's interests at heart, same as you do.

    It is very tough being a separated parent, and sometimes you just have to relinquish control, and trust the other party to parent as best they can.


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    #45
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Offy wrote: »
    Im a father of three children that I've been raising on my own since 2000. My ex-wife threw me out in Feb of 2000 and refused to let me see our children. She accused me of drug taking and having friends that were of little moral fibre shall we say. I had to have drug tests every Monday and Friday till October 2000. In early October the courts awarded her the house, car, savings acc, etc. On the 31 October she put our children into a taxi with only the clothes they were wearing and told them they were going to live with my parents.
    The OP is the first woman in years that reminds me of my ex wife. The OP's claims about her ex's girlfriend really remind me of the FALSE claims that were made about my friends. Her claim that my friends were not stable is a bit of a joke really as she herself committed suicide four years ago.
    To put it simply she made accusations about me and my friends that were completly untrue but the same accusations could be made about her and be completly true.


    Sorry to hear you had such trouble with the break up of your family, and that your children suffered such trama.

    While on the surface the OP situation may remind you of some of the things you suffered it is frankly not fair to try and compare her to your mentally ill spouse.

    As parents we want the best for our children and we try to provide the best safe environment we can for them. It can be difficult when they are going to an environment you have no control over and can not check on and where there are many unknown factors such as a house shared with adults which are not known to the child or the other parent.

    Ideally there should be enough trust between both parents that they both have what is best for the child in mind and can agree to a routine no matter what house hold the child is in and what is required so that the child is safe and secure no matter which parental home they happen to be in.


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    #46
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Sorry to hear you had such trouble with the break up of your family, and that your children suffered such trama.

    While on the surface the OP situation may remind you of some of the things you suffered it is frankly not fair to try and compare her to your mentally ill spouse.

    As parents we want the best for our children and we try to provide the best safe environment we can for them. It can be difficult when they are going to an environment you have no control over and can not check on and where there are many unknown factors such as a house shared with adults which are not known to the child or the other parent.

    Ideally there should be enough trust between both parents that they both have what is best for the child in mind and can agree to a routine no matter what house hold the child is in and what is required so that the child is safe and secure no matter which parental home they happen to be in.

    Perhaps you can explain to me and the OP why she has this choice and her ex has no choice. For years as a child I heard women scream out for equality, is the father of the children having no say in seeing his children equal?
    Of course we all want the best for our children but lets not cloud the issue here, he has a new girlfriend that the OP doesnt get along with. Why deny the children access to their father because of this? Does the OP expect that any new girlfriend will automatically be her friend?
    Ideally there should be a lot of things but we dont live in an ideal world. This post sounds very like the father is getting punished for having a new girlfriend. The sad part of that is the children are also getting punished because their father has a girlfriend that is not their mother.

    Afterthought: What has fair got to do with anything? Since when is life fair? Fair is a concept we try to install in children to preserve their innocence, it has little to do with the real world.


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    #47
    LeoB
    Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭LeoB


    Dont think she is trying to deny the father his rights to see the child she is concerned about the situation her innocent child will be put in and she is right.

    Fair has a lot to do with the real world its just a lot of people only like it when its "Fair" in their favour. Fair, honest, right thing to do, can all be twisted whatever way we want but I am far from a child and fair is not a concept it is requirement imo for us all to espouse.


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    #48
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    LeoB wrote: »
    Dont think she is trying to deny the father his rights to see the child she is concerned about the situation her innocent child will be put in and she is right.

    Fair has a lot to do with the real world its just a lot of people only like it when its "Fair" in their favour. Fair, honest, right thing to do, can all be twisted whatever way we want but I am far from a child and fair is not a concept it is requirement imo for us all to espouse.

    Im sorry LeoB but I see things from a different angle. I see no reason to deny access to the father based on anything I read from the OP. I read one side of a story but I know enough to realize that having two parents is better than having one.
    Relationships break up, thats a fact of life but for me the only reason to deny access would be if the children were in real danger and I've read nothing the indicates there is real danger to the children.
    The mother does not know the new housemates BUT she did choose the father and if her judgement is that poor that she would choose a father that would endanger his own children then perhaps she should not have custody.


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    #49
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    It does sound like the op is trying to find away to make sure that the child does indeed spend time with the father, even after the court denied it.

    I do understand her concerns but the father has to want to step up and spend time with his child as well, while there are Dad's out there who bend over backwards to do this there are alas those who don't.

    There are over protective mothers and there are neglectful fathers or those who due to circumstance or thier choice never got to grips with the day to day hands on needed when it comes to tending to a small child and so it's hard for the custodal parent do anything but worry. Hell I had those issues myself with leaving the house for any lenght of time and the state of the place and the kids coming back home.

    I don't think parents plan and discuss enough when it comes to rearing thier children be it under the same roof or seperate roofs. A clearly trashed out parenting plan and expectations and duty of care agreement can go along way to easing things all round.
    if the parents are will to try make it work.

    lillybelle01 I would suggest you try figure out how much of your concerns are concrete and how many of them are worries and then try talk to your co parent in a contructive non confrontational manner.

    If his new gf wants to be number 1 in his life and he's willing to go along with that then you can't do anything about it. He has to want to spend quality time with his child and be a Dad, and at least you are happy to have him try to do that.


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    #50
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Offy wrote: »
    Im sorry LeoB but I see things from a different angle. I see no reason to deny access to the father based on anything I read from the OP. I read one side of a story but I know enough to realize that having two parents is better than having one.

    That depends on the parents and how toxic they are indivually or together.
    Offy wrote: »
    Relationships break up, thats a fact of life but for me the only reason to deny access would be if the children were in real danger and I've read nothing the indicates there is real danger to the children.

    I am sure we don't have all the facts, I do think it is a good thing that the op is looking for a discussion on this and to find out if her worries are unfounded, her expectations too much and to look for different opionions all of which I think is a good thing.
    Offy wrote: »
    The mother does not know the new housemates BUT she did choose the father
    and if her judgement is that poor that she would choose a father that would endanger his own children then perhaps she should not have custody.

    MOD NOTE:
    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, you chose your wife.
    I will not tolerate any more sly diggs at the OP, this is your last warning.


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    #51
    lillybelle01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭lillybelle01


    offy i find it ridiculous you have compared me to your ex wife i have not accused my ex of anything i have not once said anything about any issues he has with any substance, my only concern is our child. I wish my ex would first build a relationship with our daughter (his gf has been around since just after our daughter was born) before his gf becomes a part of their ( our daughter and her daddies) relationship. This is incase they do break up so at least my daughter will have built a relationship with her dad and things wont change dramatically.
    Further more i have no issue with my ex having a girlfriend i myself have a boyfriend and i ended the relationship between my ex and i.
    Children of separated parents need routine as their family situation is difficult as it is what i am concerned most with is setting up a routine that may not be constant.


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    #52
    lillybelle01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭lillybelle01


    and i am not denying access i am trying to agree terms with him so he can see more of our daughter. i also have made no false claim about him his gf or the people he lives with i have simply said i do not know them and would not be comfortable with my doughter staying overnight with people i don't know.


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    #53
    LeoB
    Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭LeoB


    Offy wrote: »
    Im sorry LeoB but I see things from a different angle. I see no reason to deny access to the father based on anything I read from the OP. I read one side of a story but I know enough to realize that having two parents is better than having one.
    Relationships break up, thats a fact of life but for me the only reason to deny access would be if the children were in real danger and I've read nothing the indicates there is real danger to the children.
    The mother does not know the new housemates BUT she did choose the father and if her judgement is that poor that she would choose a father that would endanger his own children then perhaps she should not have custody.

    What I have read is she has concerns about his current situation, his current partner and her attidtude towards her. Based on this I think she is right.

    I of course accept two parents is better than one but there must be only one hymn sheet which in this case is not there. People endanger there kids all the time some without realizing it through drink, drugs or fighting but when in the right frame of mind are probably wonderful people and parents.

    The op from what we know has made some choices about how she conducts her life in front of her child and this can only be good, ie not having her boy friend around her house to much in front of the child. This shows me someone who maybe messed up once and has learned and is trying to move on. Her ex could probably do the same in the interest of the child.

    If I thought she was doing it just to spite her ex I would not be supporting her stanse. I think we all know or believe Men are quite often dumped on in a lot of these situations. I think the only thing she can do to get some real progress is to sit down with her ex and a social worker or mediator and put in place a solid plan in the best interest of the child.


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    #54
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Offy, I'm having a lot of trouble seeing parallels between your experience and what the OP is talking about. I personally don't think she's correct in her wishes regarding overnight access but she doesn't at all come across like she wants to bar her ex from seeing the kid.

    This, as with many threads, is where people start seeing their situation in what the OP describes. It is rarely the case that they will be similar except for superficial details.


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