Puppy discipline

tk123

Hi guys. I need some advice on how to discipline our 4 month Golden Retriever. By day if he's bold (the odd time really - he's usually pretty good) I'd exclude him for a few mins - eg put him in the other room then ignore him when we let him back in. The problem is that he goes MENTAL barking and crying so this isn't really any option at night.
The last few nights he's started to growl and snap when we try to move him and get him into his crate for the night. I don't want to bribe him with a treat in case he thinks i'm treating him for being too bold to go to bed - I want him to know that growling isn't acceptable. Should I just let him go to bed on his own or try to nip the growling in the bud - I think he's starting to test his limits with us?

Eviledna

I recently crate trained a cocker cross, and the one thing that I noticed is that you have to make the crate a welcoming place to be, a secure home.
Now you have associated leaving the dog on it's own with punishment, it may very well make the association with being locked in a room and being locked in it's crate = negative.
I'd stop abandoning the dog when it's bold, it may only develop issues with abandonment.
For the night time crating, let him try to develop getting in at his own will, through a voice commmand such as "bed". If he responds give him a small treat, such as lots of praise. Make it into a game initially. Don't be too quick to lock him in, rebuild the trust. Teach him to stay in there with the door open, repetition is key. I used this technique with my little pet and after a week it was a struggle getting her out of the thing! (she's a lazy ass):)

As for discipline when he's bold...define bold? Piddling? Barking?

tk123

Thanks! We had him in 'puppy preschool' at the local vets and they said to exclude them like that when he's bold. For him bold is biting. His crate is actually in my room at night so he's not all alone. Normally I'd bring him up at night and he'd dive into the crate and go asleep but the last few nights he doesn't want me to bring him up and I've had to wait until he's fast asleep and carry him up. Also I bring him out to the loo about half an hour before we go to bed so thats not it.

lrushe

tk123 wrote: »

Hi guys. I need some advice on how to discipline our 4 month Golden Retriever. By day if he's bold (the odd time really - he's usually pretty good) I'd exclude him for a few mins - eg put him in the other room then ignore him when we let him back in. The problem is that he goes MENTAL barking and crying so this isn't really any option at night.
The last few nights he's started to growl and snap when we try to move him and get him into his crate for the night. I don't want to bribe him with a treat in case he thinks i'm treating him for being too bold to go to bed - I want him to know that growling isn't acceptable. Should I just let him go to bed on his own or try to nip the growling in the bud - I think he's starting to test his limits with us?

The ignoring method alot of trainers advise can be used for non-threatening issues such as jumping up on people etc. but I wouldn't use it on a dog that is snapping as this issue should be directly addressed by a stern 'NO' or it could esculate. Luckily though 4 month old puppys don't act aggressively, it's more likely he is just trying adjust to the rules of your house. If you know physically moving him will get the reaction of him growling or snapping don't do this therefore he won't associate a treat with bad behaviour, just let him see you put something small but really tasty like cheese or ham in his crate and let him decide himself that he wants to go into the crate, when he does go into the crate (curiousity will overcome even the stubbornest puppy!) give him lots of praise and shut the door. It might take awhile at first so don't try this if you are in hurry to go to bed or tired as you will just get frustrated, give yourself and your pup extra time to get it right!

tk123

Thanks guys! I don't know what was up with him because he dived into it as normal last night!

Howitzer

is a water pistol any good for discipline? or just a distraction really?

tk123

I don't think it'd work for our guy - he stands under the drain pipe on our shed for a shower! :pac:

spurscormac

Can I just try and understand things here...

You are trying to discipline him by putting him on his own in the utility room?

You have the crate in your room, and want him to use it, but he seemed for a while to prefer to sleep downstairs ?


Personally, I'd have the crate in the utility, let him enjoy it, by using treats as advised, and he'll probably be fine with it.
As for the scolding him when he's bold, I wouldn't close him off in another room, just stop playing, stand up, pull away hands from him, and turn your back if necessary. When the bad behaviour has stopped for lets say 30-60secs, go back to playing with him.

Dogs live in the present, so what happened 5 mins ago has no real effect on them and they will have moved on. You're just trying to reinforce that bad behaviour=no fun, then shortly after, good behaviour=fun.

They do learn this over time, but have no idea why something is bad, just that its better to do the things that result in fun.

tk123

When he starts to bite he jumps up at hands/sleeves/trouser legs so ignoring him doesn't work - he's hanging out of you. It sounds funny typing it but he bit my brother in the a$$ the other day(!) In the puppy class they told us to 'sin bin' (i don't like that phrase) them if they were bold so put them in a different room to you for a minute or two. Our guy goes nuts thou so i don't like doing it and he's usally no bother so it hasn't really been needed.
As for night time - he was growling when I tried to wake him up so he'd go to the crate but he was fine again last night so not sure what was wrong with him. The only thing I can think of is that he prefers the new vet bed I got at the weekend to the blanket in his crate - easily fixed since the piece I got is big enough to be cut in half and the other piece can be the new carpet for his 'room'

andreac

I would be careful with your pup as it sounds like he is calling the shots here, which is wrong, you are the master and you should be the one to call the shots and not let the puppy dictate what he wants to do.

You mentioned in one of the earlier posts that you had to wait til he fell asleep to bring him upstairs as he didnt want to go, this would be a major no-no for me, as i wouldnt be letting any pup dictate what the routines etc are.

You need to set boundries and routine and stick to them as dogs thrive on this.
If he thinks he can get his own way now it will only get worse as he gets older.

Pups shouldnt be growling at you, unless its during play which is completely different so i would be getting firm with this fella now so he knows you are the boss and not him.

spurscormac

tk123 wrote: »

When he starts to bite he jumps up at hands/sleeves/trouser legs so ignoring him doesn't work - he's hanging out of you. It sounds funny typing it but he bit my brother in the a$$ the other day(!) In the puppy class they told us to 'sin bin' (i don't like that phrase) them if they were bold so put them in a different room to you for a minute or two. Our guy goes nuts thou so i don't like doing it and he's usally no bother so it hasn't really been needed.
As for night time - he was growling when I tried to wake him up so he'd go to the crate but he was fine again last night so not sure what was wrong with him. The only thing I can think of is that he prefers the new vet bed I got at the weekend to the blanket in his crate - easily fixed since the piece I got is big enough to be cut in half and the other piece can be the new carpet for his 'room'

By the sound of things, its time for a sharp, stern "NO" in a strong voice. It gets their attention when they are behaving badly and lets them no you are boss. Turn towards them and say it, while withdrawing any interaction at the same time.

There could be another reason for the jumping & biting, Its possible that he's trying to get attention, and has done so from a young age, and got rewarded for doing so (ie he jumped up and you played with him). Its so easy to come home, puppy jumps up at you and you start rubbing and petting him. Its hard for us humans to realise, but we're training bad behaviour here.
Problem is he sees it as this behaviour gets attention and continues it - which is just what I had with my cocker, and still do at times.
I managed to mostly cut it out of my guy by refusing interaction until he was sitting or standing on all 4 paws, but as I said, he still does it the odd time & I have to try and reinforce the good behaviour by requesting a sit.

As for the crate, yeah he could just prefer the new bedding.

barbiegirl

I know that putting a dog into submission isn't heavily favoured here, but I have to found that with our retriever cross, when she snaps a swift strong no, followed by putting her into submission if that doesn't work, does work. Now when she is down, I hold her lightly, and rub her calmly to get her to calm down. She doesn't like it, but she calms down and the snapping has more or less stopped. I have also watched her with other older dogs and they treat each other like this too. It is a language she understands.
She also gets put out of she is being particularly bold and ignoring everything else, and this always works.
Remember to be consistent with the rules.
Right now she's cuddled up on the sofa beside me asleep :-) Being a little angel :-)

messygirl

haha sounds like our fella (my boyfriends family dog but I bought him as a present for my oh. My idea he agreed to it before anyone thinks I just showed up with a bundle of fur I say ours because i just love him so much but he isnt actually mine). He is over three now but up until a year ago he would use his mouth as playing very sporadically when he was very excited and hyper, I would put on a frowny face, give a stern no, and then turn my back on him. then I would just go back to playing. he sleeps in the utility room and has done from day one, jaffa cakes and bacon cut fresh from your dinner or cheese are his favourites, bed time was made enjoyable by half a jafa or a digestive and a good petting of about 5 minutes before he sleeps and settles. One thing, he is a NIGHTMARE on the leash, he sometimes likes to drop and no exagerating he once lay down on the ground for 20 minutes and wouldnt budge for coaxing, petting, scolding anything! (He wasn't tired, he would stop at the exact same place!) He is very big and weighs a lot so a harness is fantastic (no way would I be able to control him if not for hte harness, he would have me dragged off my feet!) If possible practise the good walking now while the pup isnt strong enough. Mr dog hates being given out too, he once dug out flowers and when he was shouted at (not shouted at violently but like "NO! Bold!" ) he went flying into the bushes until someone else came home and then he came skulking out with his tail between his legs and head down (first and only time he was given out to the cheeky thing). Such a softy, be prepared for the boldest, cutest, sweetest, bestest most cheeky companion you can imagine! also i think it was about 6months when himself started moulting REAL bad so maybe keep up with the brushing? and he had a bad problem with his ears one time because they are so floppy and cute just to keep an eye on them(starting to miss him now )